just sick of everything.

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egyptianmau121

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If you hate retail pharmacy, options will be extremely limited for you in pharmacy as retail makes up 80-90% of pharmacy jobs. Post grad certifications like an MBA or finance lends itself more to retail (maybe independent) and will only put yourself more in debt.

Very few pharmacy jobs offer a stable 9-5 job. Maybe pharmacists performing prior authorizations for an insurance company, but those jobs are scarce.

To be honest, from your descriptions, it sounds like you don't want to be in pharmacy, or even healthcare, at all. Minimal patient interaction automatically eliminates the vast majority of healthcare positions.

Working as a staff pharmacist in a hospital *could* have fulfilled some of your criteria, but with the pharmacy market as it is, you'll need a residency and go even longer with a decreased pay/more debt.
 
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First off, the job market is not as bad as people here say it is. It's not the upcoming Armageddon. The sky isn't falling and doomsday is not approaching. However, you are going to need to bust your ass in pharmacy school if you want a real shot at a job. There's a lot of graduates out there and not too many new jobs. If you want a 9-to-5 job right out of pharmacy school, you'll most likely be looking at retail unless if you want to do hospital and deal with wacky hours before getting the schedule you want. As for this whole 200k debt thing...work while you're in school. Making $10-15 an hour might not seem like much but if you work a lot, make smart financial decisions, and are willing to sacrifice a lot, you won't be 200k deep unless if you go to an atrociously expensive school and live in a high COL area.

On top of it all, you need to want to do pharmacy. If you're just doing it for the money then walk away while you still have the chance.
 
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I actually would like to get an MBA or take finance post grad certification courses INSTEAD of getting the Pharm.D. I don't mind working on the administrative side of healthcare (maybe a healthcare data analyst).

In that case, that doesn't sound like that bad an idea. I personally don't know the specifics about healthcare data analysts, but you should research it more and interview someone about it if it strikes your fancy. You've still got time before you have to respond to any interview results, but it really sounds like you wouldn't enjoy pharmacy at all.
 
I actually would like to get an MBA or take finance post grad certification courses INSTEAD of getting the Pharm.D. I don't mind working on the administrative side of healthcare (maybe a healthcare data analyst).
For MBA, it is still costly. Competition is fierce in biotech. If you have good personality, you can work in sale and climbed up the corporate ladder. It will be very boring job, virtually no patient interaction. You will get yell by your manager, customers constantly. It is definitely a harsh working environment, much worse than a pharmacy store. There is no guaranteed for six figure salary even if u work very hard and long hours. You have to know how to kiss-ass your manager and director in order to advance your career.
Thats why after two year in biotech, I still choose pharmacy over business side of biotech. My advice is Research Research before u get into a field. There is no "perfect" job. If your passion is in pharmacy, stick with it.
 
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I can pretty much guarantee that you will be accepted at a pharmacy school with your 3.1 GPA.

You still have a chance to be admitted into dental school, medical school, and PA school..... you just have to do a postbac or masters and get a 3.7+ GPA
along with a strong DAT or MCAT score. However, considering how you don't want to be in debt you should not pursue dentistry (400K debt on average)
and since you do not want to go to school for a long time forget about medicine (7 years minimum).

As for optometry school, a 3.1 is good enough for admission... no masters needed.

Pharmacy is not a stable 9-5 job, really the only 9-5 job in healthcare these days are dentistry or ROAD (top medical specialties)
If you cannot handle pharmacy anymore how do you expect to enjoy the rest of your life?
I can tell you this, you are not alone... most prepharmers I know don't like pharmacy at all... they even did bad in chemistry, they only pursue pharmacy
because they want money, a "stable job", don't like bodily fluid, and don't have the stats to get into medicine/dentistry.

You have your whole life ahead of you, don't put yourself in 200K financial debt because you want to hurry up and get a "6 figure" job
Decide what you truly want to do with your life, and pursue that.... if you are passionate about something the happiness will come
I have yet to meet a pharmacist who is "passionate" about pharmacy, but maybe there are a few that genuinely are, as long as they're not lying to themselves.

Don't get an MBA, it wouldn't change much for pharmacy, I suggest taking some time to seriously consider what makes you happy
or you can go to pharm school like everyone else that never had the passion to work hard and just want a paycheck.
 
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I can pretty much guarantee that you will be accepted at a pharmacy school with your 3.1 GPA.

You still have a chance to be admitted into dental school, medical school, and PA school..... you just have to do a postbac or masters and get a 3.7+ GPA
along with a strong DAT or MCAT score. However, considering how you don't want to be in debt you should not pursue dentistry (400K debt on average)
and since you do not want to go to school for a long time forget about medicine (7 years minimum).

As for optometry school, a 3.1 is good enough for admission... no masters needed.

Pharmacy is not a stable 9-5 job, really the only 9-5 job in healthcare these days are dentistry or ROAD (top medical specialties)
If you cannot handle pharmacy anymore how do you expect to enjoy the rest of your life?
I can tell you this, you are not alone... most prepharmers I know don't like pharmacy at all... they even did bad in chemistry, they only pursue pharmacy
because they want money, a "stable job", don't like bodily fluid, and don't have the stats to get into medicine/dentistry.

You have your whole life ahead of you, don't put yourself in 200K financial debt because you want to hurry up and get a "6 figure" job
Decide what you truly want to do with your life, and pursue that.... if you are passionate about something the happiness will come
I have yet to meet a pharmacist who is "passionate" about pharmacy, but maybe there are a few that genuinely are, as long as they're not lying to themselves.

Don't get an MBA, it wouldn't change much for pharmacy, I suggest taking some time to seriously consider what makes you happy
or you can go to pharm school like everyone else that never had the passion to work hard and just want a paycheck.
Definitely Agree, hard work and passion is the key to advance any career. There is no easy paycheck. Administrative side of healthcare or biotech are even more competitive when you compare to pharmacy. You may think the grass is greener on the other side. But if you take the time to water your own grass, it would be just as green.
 
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I recommend MS in Accounting or a Programming Boot Camp if you want to leave healthcare for good. Other than that, raise your GPA and go for something else.
 
If you don't have any meaningful work experience, specifically in managing projects, management or on the cusp of either and need some additional credential to get you to that position, an MBA is entirely useless, not to mention that the best schools for MBAs won't really consider you without work experience and better stats.

The absolute last thing you want to be is someone with lots of education and no experience. As a hiring manager, the first thing I would think is that the applicant has no focus. The second thing I would think is that you would hop to a "better" job as soon as you found one. Ergo, not hired.
 
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Do your parents pressure you into pharmacy because of job security and pay? They need to know that pharmacy now has just as little, if not less job security than finance, accounting, engineering, communications, computer programming, etc. which do not require you to take out an additional $200k+ loans and spend an additional 4 years in school. You do have good reason to believe that the grass is greener on the other side for these other professions. The BLS projects job growth of 3%, or 9100 over the next 10 years. During this time period, 150,000 students will have graduated from pharmacy schools.
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/pharmacists.htm

I agree with others about going to a programming boot camp or getting an MS degree in something that is in demand, i.e. accounting or computer science.
 
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are you saying healthcare administration is more competitive than pharmacy in terms of getting admission for the healthcare administration program or getting a job?


I do like pharmacy, I like learning about how drugs interact with the body and even have several ideas on what I want to do in the field (really like independent pharmacy; specializations - psychiatry, endocrinology, nutrition). I just don't think I'm capable enough to get through the Pharm.D program based on my mental health. I'm trying to get help for that now - seeing a therapist. What I want to do right now is to simply find the fastest way to be financially independent, I'll see if I want to do pharmacy later on. I can't help it, I've been feeling this way for a long time. I just want to move on with my life. I want big girl job now, I want to find a guy to date and eventually marry, I don't want to wait till I'm 30 to start my life.

you're 23 years old, chances are any professional degree will take up a lot of your time and you may end up marrying around age 27-30 if you're lucky enough
to find someone suitable with that workload you will have.

perhaps consider nursing? a registered nurse or go even further and become a nurse practitioner, less schooling, easier classes, and less workload = more time for personal life
 
I just wanted to point out that OD schools aren't out of the question with a 3.1 GPA. Apply to the newer schools and Puerto Rico.
Also, if you retake a few courses and bump your GPA up, you could even pursue DO. From a numbers perspective, you're not in as hopeless of a state as you think you are. It seems like you want something quicker. Look into PA/PT/OT etc. they're all fine professions.
 
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It's funny that lots of people are recommending engineering as an alternative to pharmacy. I actually did a degree in engineering but didn't end up with an engineering job but maybe that's because I didn't want to move far away to a place like California. I know tons of people from India who got engineering jobs (work visa) though and are making 40K and some are even making 70K after doing a graduate degree here in the US. Every field has downsides so don't expect the grass to be greener. The engineers that I know who make 100k+ normally have Ph.Ds and work in a popular area like nanotechnology (extremely heavy in math and quantum mechanics). Computer programming jobs are generally all over the place but that's one of the easiest jobs to outsource.

A lot of engineering work is done on the computer so if you don't mind staring at a screen for 8 hrs and running simulations and typing code while working in a cubicle then you should be good.

If you don't like patient interaction then healthcare sounds like the wrong field for you.
 
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are you saying healthcare administration is more competitive than pharmacy in terms of getting admission for the healthcare administration program or getting a job?


I do like pharmacy, I like learning about how drugs interact with the body and even have several ideas on what I want to do in the field (really like independent pharmacy; specializations - psychiatry, endocrinology, nutrition). I just don't think I'm capable enough to get through the Pharm.D program based on my mental health. I'm trying to get help for that now - seeing a therapist. What I want to do right now is to simply find the fastest way to be financially independent, I'll see if I want to do pharmacy later on. I can't help it, I've been feeling this way for a long time. I just want to move on with my life. I want big girl job now, I want to find a guy to date and eventually marry, I don't want to wait till I'm 30 to start my life.
I am not implying getting an admission. I am implying getting a job. I am a degree in regulatory. It is the most easy master to get in. You apply and u r in. There will be ton of programs waiting for u to apply and rob u with 30k. But what can u do after u graduate? Company looks for EXPERIENCES, especially working on the administration side of health-care. You degree will offer u nothing without practical experience. Even if u get a job, it is definitely not six figure and long term. When the funding is low, company will first cut the administration side. Your chance of being lay off is very high.
 
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are you saying healthcare administration is more competitive than pharmacy in terms of getting admission for the healthcare administration program or getting a job?


I do like pharmacy, I like learning about how drugs interact with the body and even have several ideas on what I want to do in the field (really like independent pharmacy; specializations - psychiatry, endocrinology, nutrition). I just don't think I'm capable enough to get through the Pharm.D program based on my mental health. I'm trying to get help for that now - seeing a therapist. What I want to do right now is to simply find the fastest way to be financially independent, I'll see if I want to do pharmacy later on. I can't help it, I've been feeling this way for a long time. I just want to move on with my life. I want big girl job now, I want to find a guy to date and eventually marry, I don't want to wait till I'm 30 to start my life.
Yea definitely take a break if u feel too stressful. But why dont u just apply some other jobs before u spend money on another degree? There will be plenty of entree level job in healthcare or biotech required only a bachelor. You just have to keep applying. Worse come to Worse. If you do not like work on those jobs, you can always re-apply to pharmacy. Dont make the same mistake I do. Dont fritter away your 30k to another degree until you receive some real world experiences.
 
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Seems to be a common theme, but you have to remember the sample size. Almost all of the negative pharmacy outlook posts in this forum bring out joker and stoich. Individuals on this forum are motivated. That motivation may be to get into school, to change disciplines, to reaffirm the choice to do something else. What many are posting are half-truths. New grads are still getting jobs. It's far more difficult now... You have to work for that great position. Expect to compete with several (or more) pharmacists for the truly coveted positions.

I can only speak from what I have personally seen and done. In the past twelve months, I've hired 4 clinical pharmacists, 2 outpatient pharmacists, 6 outpatient techs, 1 clinical pharmacy tech, and 1 sole prescriber tech. We are getting ready to list one additional clinical pharmacist and one outpatient positions in the near future. For two of these positions, we had only two applicants.

What I'm getting at is the jobs are out there. If you're willing to come to Colorado, I know of two opening up shortly.
 
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Seems to be a common theme, but you have to remember the sample size. Almost all of the negative pharmacy outlook posts in this forum bring out joker and stoich.

yes because the 2 months that I've been on here equates to the years of negativity on this forum right?

no, most pharmacists on this forum are warning prepharmers from pursing pharmacy school, the sample size is large enough.
if only 2 people were spreading half-truths on here I'm sure these "motivated" 2.7 gpa applicants will be able to argue against the points made, this rarely happens
however, I should note that any negative job outlook I post about is directed towards California and New York, where most people plan on working, if Colorado has a good market then great.
 
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Okay, so here's my situation. I'm 23 years old and graduated with a bachelors in December 2015. I submitted my pharmacy applications and have some interviews to attend. I just finished my interview last Friday and am now waiting to hear back from them. As of now, I work in a pharmacy to make money, gain more pharmacy experience, and just keep myself occupied for the time being.

The reason why I'm feeling so down is because I feel like none of this pharmacy stuff is worth it anymore. I keep hearing about how the pharmacy job market is terrible. In my opinion, having to take out $200K loans + studying my head off just to have a hard time finding a job as a pharmacist in 2020 really kills my motivation. After putting all of this into consideration, I question my decision of going into pharmacy almost every single day. Of course, my GPA is too low for MD/PA/dentistry/OD (3.1 GPA) so pharmacy is really my only choice in terms of a healthcare profession. When I see everybody else my age happily employed after graduating with a degree in finance/accounting/engineering/communications or whatever degree is employable I feel so depressed while I'm only working as a pharmacy clerk. To be honest, I just want to be financially stabile as soon as possible as long as I reasonably like my job and earn decent money. Don't get me wrong, I love healthcare, I like pharmacy and the science behind it. I definitely would have pursued pharmacy if the job market was like it was ten years ago. I'm just not passionate enough to where I'm willing to put my life on hold for another 4 years and spend $200K for an uncertain future. I actually wanted to switch my major to finance and finish my pharmacy school prereqs on the side my sophomore year of college, but then my parents were furious at that idea, so as you can see much of this issue comes from family pressures.

Right now, I'm wondering if I could take some post grad certification courses in finance or get an MBA to make myself more employable. I really don't like working in retail pharmacy and I don't think I can take it anymore. I definitely prefer minimal interaction with customers/patients and just working with my teammates (people I'm more familiar with). I just want a stabile 9 to 5 job ASAP where I can make decent money. Now I'm scared if I ruined my life and if I have no other choice except to go for pharmacy, work my *** off, and just pray for the best.

So what do you think I should do and what do you think of my situation? Is it pathetic and did I screw up my life? What options do you suggest for me?

do you enjoy working as a pharmacy clerk? can you imagine yourself being in that environment for your entire life?

choosing a career should be based on PASSION, not on TOLERANCE.... or else your life will be miserable.
 
if you don't enjoy patient interaction, Pharmacy never should've crossed your mind. My god , 90% of pharmacy is interaction with other people..
 
Seems to be a common theme, but you have to remember the sample size. Almost all of the negative pharmacy outlook posts in this forum bring out joker and stoich. Individuals on this forum are motivated. That motivation may be to get into school, to change disciplines, to reaffirm the choice to do something else. What many are posting are half-truths. New grads are still getting jobs. It's far more difficult now... You have to work for that great position. Expect to compete with several (or more) pharmacists for the truly coveted positions.

I can only speak from what I have personally seen and done. In the past twelve months, I've hired 4 clinical pharmacists, 2 outpatient pharmacists, 6 outpatient techs, 1 clinical pharmacy tech, and 1 sole prescriber tech. We are getting ready to list one additional clinical pharmacist and one outpatient positions in the near future. For two of these positions, we had only two applicants.

What I'm getting at is the jobs are out there. If you're willing to come to Colorado, I know of two opening up shortly.

I see you have a button for army, did you do military pharmacy, how was it?
 
just to reiterate my suggestion for OP to pursue nursing, this was posted earlier today in the "Pharmacy" subsection:

Because healthcare is moving away from fee for service (FFS) and towards value-based payment/purchasing (VBP), clinical knowledge and application will be paramount. Pharmacists will be called on more than before to perform clinical duties to improve outcomes because in VBP, poor outcomes = less reimbursement, and medication-related problems are a huge issue.

Hovewer, the lowering of standards for pharmacy education and increase in the number of pharmacy schools ensures that supply outpaces demand... and therefore more pharmacists than ever will be doing retail, and even then, retail is seeing such a glut of pharmacists that many new pharmacists are lucky to even have a job floating from store to store without having a stable staff position. If you want a job with a lot of clinical functions, you'd better attend an established school of pharmacy vs. these increasingly common no-standards "diploma mills", and really excel as a student (ideally, be near the top of your class, perform as a leader, impress your professors and preceptors). Expect to have to do a residency, in which you'll earn less than 50% of a full-fledged pharmacist's salary for at least another year.

It really depends on what you are trying to get out of becoming a pharmacist. But people should understand that it is not a profitable profession in most cases. 4 years of school and $200k+ in tuition. If you would have otherwise made $40,000/year with a job right out of undergraduate school, 4 years in pharmacy school comes with the opportunity cost of $160,000 in lost earnings, in addition to the $200,000 you're paying. That's about $360,000 which doesn't even include the interest on loans. If you owe $200k+, expect to start off paying $10,000 a year in interest - that will decrease over time as you pay off your principal, but over the lifetime of the loan, it will add up to become a lot. In order to even "break even" financially, it will take most new pharmacists more than 10 years (15-20, likely)....maybe 10 years to pay off the loan and another 5-10 years to make it back.

Honestly, nurses will probably make more than pharmacists for the first 15 years and be able to save quicker while they are young...by the time they are in their late 20s or early 30s, they will have less trouble affording weddings, vacations, and buying a house while most pharmacists are struggling to pay off their debt. So if you decide to do go into pharmacy, you should understand that the path will be very difficult, the competition will be stiff, and the financial payoff will not be high - you'd better have some kind of compelling non-financial payoff to justify a decision to become a pharmacist. Most prospective pharmacy students just don't have the maturity to see beyond the alluring, but deceptive $100k salary. They just do not understand the costs and difficulties of being a pharmacist.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/will-retail-be-only-option-for-pharmacist-in-future.1183467/
 
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just to reiterate my suggestion for OP to pursue nursing, this was posted earlier today in the "Pharmacy" subsection:



http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/will-retail-be-only-option-for-pharmacist-in-future.1183467/

Didn't you read that she hates interacting with customers/patients? I don't think that makes her a good fit for nursing o_O

I'm just not passionate enough to where I'm willing to put my life on hold for another 4 years and spend $200K for an uncertain future.

Then pharmacy is probably not for you. Your life will not only be on hold for 4 years, and you will not only spend $200k. Your life will be on hold for 10 years (at least), as you work to repay your loans and you're not able to save up much during that time. You will spend $200k, but it will actually cost you much more in lost salary, and lost time. I don't know if people think about time in terms of monetary value, but ask yourself this - how much money is 4 years of life worth to you? And not just any 4 years...4 years in the prime of your life, when you're young, energetic, energetic, motivated, adventerous.You should be spending those 4 years pursuing your passions, hobbies, and life goals - not on something you dread and don't enjoy. You mentioned the pressure from your parents... utimately it's your life. What good will it to you to listen to them and head down a path that you ultimately will not be happy with?

Deciding that pharmacy is not right for you does not mean you screwed up. In fact, it probably means you avoided a disaster. To screw up would be to invest the time, energy, and money only to realize later that you're unhappy - but by then you've already sunk your resources.
 
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Didn't you read that she hates interacting with customers/patients? I don't think that makes her a good fit for nursing o_O

true, but she also said that she wants to be financially stable as soon as possible and that she loves healthcare, 4 years of pharmacy school
is not "soon" and the suggestion to go back and do programming or engineering isn't "soon" either. OP needs to take time and think this through
cause hating patients but loving healthcare doesn't make much sense.
 
There really is nothing to be depressed about. Its not like you're in the middle of your 3rd year of pharmacy school starting to have doubts
and thinking of dropping out with thousands of dollars in debt with no degree. You haven't started or committed to any professional program yet
so you have a lot of time to think about your future. If you do not like rude customers and a career with uncertain future then do not go to pharmacy
school because for the next 4 years you will keep doubting yourself and thinking "what if I can't get a job when I graduate, what if I hate pharmacy forever?"
When you get your acceptance letter from the schools you interviewed at (and trust me you will get accepted) it will be very tempting to just enroll, don't do it.

You want a job with less patient interaction, involves healthcare, doesn't take a long time, financially stable, and allows time for personal life.
This is the dream job and it simply does not exist. You need to make sacrifices.

Nursing = more patients but not nearly as rude as those at a pharmacy, involves healthcare, you probably have all the prereqs completed for this already, stable, tons of time for personal life.

PhD in pharmacology (or different biology/chemistry study) = no patient interaction, mostly research and solitude study, longer than pharmacy school, stable, good for personal life

Optometry = patients are never rude, healthcare, 4 years like pharm, not exactly stable but safer than pharmacy, decent time for personal, its a doctorate if parents care about "prestige"

These are my suggestions.
You aren't going to live with your parents forever so what they think should not be of concern, your own happiness is infinitely more important than others opinions.
 
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I'm very depressed. Ever since my sophomore year of college I tried to tell my parents that the pharmacy job market is not good, they think I'm just trying to make excuses and take the easy way out. They also think pharmacists and pharmacy students warning pre-pharmers about the job market are just lying so they can get and keep their pharmacy jobs. Part of me wants to stay in pharmacy but the other part is so terrified of the risks involved in pursuing pharmacy.

You would want to show them these links.

Software development: 17% growth, $97,990 median salary
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm

Physician assistant: 30% growth, $95,820 median salary
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/physician-assistants.htm

Accounting: 11% growth, $65,940 median salary
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/business-and-financial/accountants-and-auditors.htm

Pharmacy: 3% growth, $120,950 median salary
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/pharmacists.htm

Even accounting has a better job outlook than pharmacy and pays only slightly less when you factor in $200k+ student loans and 4 years of lost earnings opportunity cost from pharmacy school.
 
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Ya but if she wanted to do accounting she should have done accounting. She has already graduated. So you can't really talk about lost earnings opportunity because she would still have to go get the degree.

In terms of money PharmD is the best option but if you don't want to work in retail you are probably setting yourself up for disappointment. In a class of around 70 pharmacy students I can only name 1 or 2 students that plan on working in retail. Everyone is obsessing over residency and clinical pharmacy. The fact is that 70% of the jobs are in retail. Plus retail doesn't require a residency AND generally pays better. So if you are ruling out retail before even starting school you might want to rethink.
 
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I showed this to my mom last month and she just tells me not to worry because other fields of pharmacy will be expanding and only retail jobs will decrease. Whatever, I'm pretty much doomed for life now lol

would it be possible for me to take grad courses in accounting or finance so I can get that kind of job soon? another idea I have in mind is public health (either epidemiology or biostatistics)

In Canada, to get on the CPA track, a non-science grad would need to take ~1-1.5 years of accounting courses prior to enrolling. I'm assuming something similar exists in the states as well. A general accountant likely won't make a PharmD salary, but a CPA designated one surely can with few years of experience. I know some people in the field who're doing well but it's just too monotonous for me and most science grads i'd presume. I'd look into Actuary as well if you're a "math person" and willing to change tracks entirely.

In any case, from what you wrote, Optometry seems ideal to me. Even in that profession you should get somewhat comfortable with the idea of working retail.
 
The worst kind of person is the kind that asks for advice, gets good advice (literally unanimous from all users) and still disregards it.

It's your life. What are you going to do when everything we said turns out to be true and you're suffering and miserable. You can blame your family but they cannot help you and you will be doomed in pharmacy for the rest of your life.
 
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I showed this to my mom last month and she just tells me not to worry because other fields of pharmacy will be expanding and only retail jobs will decrease. Whatever, I'm pretty much doomed for life now lol
So you're going to need to ask yourself what's more important...what your parents want you to do, or what you think is good for yourself?
 
The entire basis of pharmacy jobs expanding comes from the shortage of primary care physicians. Pharmacy wants to fill in this gap, thus a projection is job growth. The problem, in my opinion, is that other mid level practitioners such as NP and PA are already filling in these gaps while pharmacists are still legally limited in the role that they can play. Worst case scenario is that no new pharmacy jobs are created and retail continues to go down hill with saturation, lower reimbursement, and more central fills/automation/mail order/etc. Is pharmacy doomed? Probably not but the future carries a lot of uncertainty and most people would agree that the near term outlook for pharmacy is poor.
 
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