Kaiser (Full CoA) vs UCSF (160k) vs UCLA (175k)

[utangboy123]

I am from SoCal and all of my close support systems will be in SoCal. At least for now, I don’t intend on pursing a competitive subspecialty — I am currently interested in Pediatrics, Emergency Medicine, or PM&R. I have NO interest in academic medicine. I do understand that most people may not know a lot about Kaiser beyond the fact that it is a brand new program and is free, but I have been VERY, VERY impressed about the school after recent online events. My descriptions are going to be a bit longer got KP because there is not a lot of information out there about the program for the general public. Right now, I am leaning heavily towards KP (and will probably commit here!) and I just wanted to get some more opinions from ya’ll before commit day in ~2 weeks.

Kaiser

+ Financial Freedom!!

+ Case-based curriculum - I feel MORE confident in flipped classroom curriculum over a lecture based system to help develop my medical decision making. Seems like it will really prepare me well for Step 1/2 and in clinicals.

+ The only medical school in the US with a health systems science department in addition to biomedical and clinical science department - this will help me grow to become a clinician more knowledgeable about quality improvement, population/community health, public health + policy

+ Well connected faculty - faculty members have left very prestigious positions (Harvard, Columbia, UCSD, University of Washington, etc) because they “believe in KP’s mission” Faculty really wants to see their students succeed and have shared that they will be advocating for us to our top choice residency programs.

+ Faculty is very invested in the students - received multiple phone calls from faculty to check in on me, answer any lingering questions, and address any concerns I have about the program. I feel VERY supported here and have a lot of trust in the faculty/staff.

+ Big emphasis on wellness through “REACH” weeks - intermittent x1 week periods where students meet with physician coach to discuss/reflect progress in class/clinicals, narrative medicine, learn how to cook nutritious meals, etc.

+ Longitudinal Clerkships - Internal Medicine/Family medicine clerkship during the first year and the rest of the core clerkships during year 2.

+ Work with federally funded clinic x1 a month as part of “service-learning” component

+ 2 extra years to do Sub-Is/Away rotations and build on CV to become more competitive for residency

+ The school has already established partnerships with local free clinics and are excited to have us create a Student Run Free Clinic

+ Scholarly project due at the end of 3rd year, right in time for residency applications.

+ The medical education building is ridiculously beautiful inside and out. Also, the prospect of living in Pasadena is very exciting!!

(-) Inaugural class — There will be some inevitable hiccups along the way.

(-) Will going to a new institution deter me from a competitive specialty should I change my goals later on?

(-) Will mandatory classes during the first year (8am - 12/1pm on M/F and 8am- 3pm on T/W) hinder me from pursuing special interests??

(-) Commute + LA traffic

(-) Core clerkships will be at 1 clinical site and will ONLY be outpatient. But, there will be intermittent x1 week periods of inpatient immersion spread throughout the second year and x10 ED shifts on Saturdays for inpatient experiences. Also more opportunities for inpatient experiences during years 3/4 during elective rotations + away rotations.

(-) Virtual anatomy didn’t really work for me when I tried it out during the interview?? - But, maybe it’ll be fine after a period of adjustmen???

(-) Pass/Condition Pass/Fail year 1. Honors/Pass/Fail for year 2 clerkships -- Will this be stressful??


UCSF

+ It’s UCSF. The dream school. Prestige. Consistent top 5 ranking in research and primary care. Consistently high PD ranking. Will probably pose no issues when time comes for residency matching.

+ Very interested in HIV/AIDS research and outreach - UCSF has the MOST robust opportunities for this.

+ TRUE P/F for pre-clinical + core clerkships!!!

+ Bridges Curriculum is AMAZING! Clinical Microsystems Clerkship is AMAZING! 1.5 years pre-clinical.

+ Option of doing block or longitudinal clerkships for clinicals

+ Rumors about the school going tuition-free in the future

+ LOTS and LOTS of Vertical and Horizontal support from faculty and students.

+ Love the idea of moving to San Francisco to experience something new, but at the same time, will it be a hassle due to COVID?? Definitely lots of potential personal growth here because its something new to me.

+ Students seem very HAPPY to be studying here. Tight knit community.

+ Opportunity to rotate in a world renowned system and learn from the BEST professors, clinicians, researchers, etc.

+ Favorite interview day.

+ Amazing match list!

(-) It will cost money - 160k minimum over the 4 years without interest.

(-) SF housing is expensive and off-campus subsidized $$ ($2500) is not guaranteed

(-) Public transportation to get around lol

(-) Facilities seem a bit run-down

(-) Support system will be FAR away.


UCLA

+ Got admitted into the UCLA/Drew Medical Education Program, which is my top choice program within DGSOM - BIG,BIG emphasis on working with underserved communities, which is something I am very passionate about. Very intimate program with 28 students.

+ Will have double the support, resources, and mentorships from separate institutions: UCLA and Drew (side note: 2 different white coat ceremonies and graduation too LOL)

+ Will be able to view medicine through 2 lens by rotating around affluent communities near Westwood through DGSOM and under-resourced communities through DREW

+ VERY close to support.

+ DOMINANT medical institution in SoCal.

+ Have home residencies in ALL of my interests.

+ Guaranteed funding for summer research/global health project for the summer between year 1 and 2.

+ I LOVE LA. Would love to eventually pursue a residency in the LA area and settle here!

+ Amazing match list. 75% of the Drew cohort pursue Primary Care, 25% Specialty

(-) TOO MANY students will be rotating at the same time due to the curriculum change for next cycle’s class.

(-) 2 year pre-clinical with traditional block-based clerkships

(-) Will cost money, when I have a completely free option??? If I were to spend $$ on school, I feel like I would rather spend it on UCSF, but I really like the idea of being closer to support system!!

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[Pluto98]

You seem to really like kaiser and just want people to confirm to you that it’s the right choice before you pull the trigger. Choose it!

 

[HingleMcCringleberryPSU]

Go with KP. It sounds like you'd like to stay in So Cal, you're not interested in competitive specialities, and it's the cheapest option.

 

[deleted688779]

I would usually say UCSF because of my own biases. But in your your case, it seems like Kaiser would be the best fit for you and the “regret-not-choosing potential” may lie with Kaiser rather than the higher ranked school.

 

[tantacles]

Take the money.

 

[chromaticscale]

How much would UCLA cost?

As the OP stated in the title, 175k.

As I mentioned to in another similar post, I think you should go with whichever school has your priorities. That being said, many people do change their mind about their specialties during med school and even in residency, so your goal of peds/EM/PMR may change. I personally would go with the more established schools e.g. UCSF/UCLA because they have the most experience training their students and have the networking and resources available. They have the best track record of matching their students into the most competitive specialties, so your chances will be at their max because of the school name.

Though Kaiser has a lot of great benefits as you mentioned, know that it is a new school (has no students yet thus no mentorship from senior students available). You mention possibility of running a Student-run free clinic which is great if you and other people help found it, but know that this is a process and basically a project that will take a lot of time to get going (which will take up your study time). Also you are going to be the first class to try out their curriculum which will definitely have its kinks.

I speak as a person who attended a relatively new school (was the third graduating class) so I can speak from some experience.

Best of luck in your decision making!

 

[mzlipton]

Go with your heart (and the money), and choose Kaiser! I would normally also say UCSF but I think based on all your pros/cons I would rank KP > UCSF > UCLA. I've seen you post a lot over these last few months and just wanted to say congrats on the success!

 

[ppplll]

Disclaimer: will likely be attending UCSF.

Having lived in SF and LA, an important note about transportation is you'll still be commuting quite a bit at Kaiser and will 100% need a car to get around. I went to high school in SF and public transport was clutch in being able to sleep, study, hang out with friends, or just zone out, which you won't be able to do as much if you're driving. Also, LA traffic not to be taken lightly. It really does suck and can be easy to start and end your days feeling high-strung from traffic. In general, I remember getting around SF via bike or bart to be faster and more enjoyable than getting around LA, so it could be good to think about that in the context of 10-12 hour clerkship days.

The main thing with UCSF definitely is the cost and from what I've heard, free tuition doesn't seem to be a reality for our entering class. Even though subsidized COA isn't guaranteed, I think you should be able to know by now whether or not you got it? Still, everything in SF is ridiculously expensive which is probably really hard to justify if you have an option of absolutely zero debt. Living in SF can also take some getting used to, even just with the weather, so not having your support system nearby could be really tough. Either way, congrats on such great options! Good luck.

 

[nymedschoolfan]

I'd go to UCSF or UCLA but it sounds like you really like Kaiser. Have you tried asking any of the schools to try to match Kaiser?

 

[utangboy123]

I'd go to UCSF or UCLA but it sounds like you really like Kaiser. Have you tried asking any of the schools to try to match Kaiser?

I tried to negotiate with UCSF, but they wouldn’t budge bc financial aid is purely need based. UCLA seemed a bit more receptive and told me that they will inform the scholarship committee and get back to me — hopefully, they can give me an answer soon, so I can finally make a decision!

 

[Klyx]

Those Kaiser folks must be putting some good ish in their KoolAid if they're able to sell Pasadena as a positive. In all seriousness, congrats OP on your excellent choices! I agree with you that choosing UCLA over Kaiser doesn't make sense; if you are applying into primary care residencies, there isn't a big difference between a UCLA/Drew applicant and a Kaiser applicant.

You should only consider UCSF if you have any inkling you might want to apply into a competitive specialty. You have a higher chance to match well, and true P/F clinical grades will significantly improve your quality of life and let you just focus on learning. If you are planning to apply into primary care, these advantages are unnecessary and definitely not worth $160K + SF COL.

 

[nymedschoolfan]

I tried to negotiate with UCSF, but they wouldn’t budge bc financial aid is purely need based. UCLA seemed a bit more receptive and told me that they will inform the scholarship committee and get back to me — hopefully, they can give me an answer soon, so I can finally make a decision!

160k for UCSF and 175k for UCLA is very reasonable... I think it'll be worth it in the case you want to pursue something more competitive in the future. But if you are set 100% set on primary care go to Kaiser.

 

[utangboy123]

Thank you all for your responses! Does anyone know if I’ll be at a “disadvantage” (Coming from a new school??) if I want to pursue PM&R (my understanding not as competitive??), but KP has no home residency programs? Thoughts on this?

 

[chromaticscale]

Thank you all for your responses! Does anyone know if I’ll be at a “disadvantage” (Coming from a new school??) if I want to pursue PM&R (my understanding not as competitive??), but KP has no home residency programs? Thoughts on this?

From what I heard (co-intern is in PM&R), there aren't that many PM&R residencies in California so if geography is important to you, I would advise that you go to one of the established schools to get a better chance.

 

[talkeetnadenali]

Check out the current list of residents at UCLA’s PM&R residency: https://www.losangeles.va.gov/documents/UCLA-VA-GLAHS-PMR-Residency.pdf

9 total residents: 4 from DO schools, 5 MDs from schools like SUNY Downstate, Albany, and Temple (1 from UCD and UCLA as well).

This suggests you’ll be more than fine matching PM&R from Kaiser and staying in CA, even at places like UCLA, if that’s your goal.

 

[Yhwach]

Those Kaiser folks must be putting some good ish in their KoolAid if they're able to sell Pasadena as a positive. In all seriousness, congrats OP on your excellent choices! I agree with you that choosing UCLA over Kaiser doesn't make sense; if you are applying into primary care residencies, there isn't a big difference between a UCLA/Drew applicant and a Kaiser applicant.

You should only consider UCSF if you have any inkling you might want to apply into a competitive specialty. You have a higher chance to match well, and true P/F clinical grades will significantly improve your quality of life and let you just focus on learning. If you are planning to apply into primary care, these advantages are unnecessary and definitely not worth $160K + SF COL.

I mean to be fair I really liked my kasier interview. No other school paid for my hotel.

 

[jessicajonesharvard]

I mean to be fair I really liked my kasier interview. No other school paid for my hotel.

The other two schools didn't need to overcompensate.

 

[Yhwach]

The other two schools didn't need to overcompensate.

I mean I agree with you lol. I'd still pick USCF but my Kaiser interview was still a good impression nonetheless

 

[utangboy123]

Thank you all! After talking to my mentors, family, so, friends, faculty, 27472848284 medical students lol, ALL signs pointed back to Kaiser. Thank you ALLLLLL so so much for sharing your thoughts ❤️ Good luck and maybe we will all cross paths in medicine one day ☺️