Kicked out of medical school, school won't let me see essay exam I failed....

inabind

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I just got kick out of medical school as a 2nd year (I've gone through the 1st appeal process in front of the committee and 2nd appeal in front of Dean and my dissmissal was upheld after both appeals).

Anyways, the exam that I failed that caused me to be put on dismissal status (by causing me to fail over the maximum allowed credits) was an essay exam. The school, however, won't let me see how my essay exam was graded. I thought I did much better on the essay exam than the score I actually obtained. Do I have any legal recourse?

I think I might call the school and threaten legal action so I can see how my essay was graded. I think that would scare them enough (the medical school is private and its parent university, also private, has been having a lot of financial problems lately).
 

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inabind said:
I just got kick out of medical school as a 2nd year (I've gone through the 1st appeal process in front of the committee and 2nd appeal in front of Dean and my dissmissal was upheld after both appeals).

Anyways, the exam that I failed that caused me to be put on dismissal status (by causing me to fail over the maximum allowed credits) was an essay exam. The school, however, won't let me see how my essay exam was graded. I thought I did much better on the essay exam than the score I actually obtained. Do I have any legal recourse?

I think I might call the school and threaten legal action so I can see how my essay was graded. I think that would scare them enough (the medical school is private and its parent university, also private, has been having a lot of financial problems lately).
you need to stop what you're doing and get a lawyer NOW. if you call and threaten them, they will not be scared. if a lawyer who is experienced in such matters calls on your behalf, it's a different story.

Also, document every single interaction you have with the school.

good luck,
s
 

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From reading your post, I can understand why you failed an essay exam.


inabind said:
I just got kick out of medical school as a 2nd year (I've gone through the 1st appeal process in front of the committee and 2nd appeal in front of Dean and my dissmissal was upheld after both appeals).

Anyways, the exam that I failed that caused me to be put on dismissal status (by causing me to fail over the maximum allowed credits) was an essay exam. The school, however, won't let me see how my essay exam was graded. I thought I did much better on the essay exam than the score I actually obtained. Do I have any legal recourse?

I think I might call the school and threaten legal action so I can see how my essay was graded. I think that would scare them enough (the medical school is private and its parent university, also private, has been having a lot of financial problems lately).
 
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Nittany Lion

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prefontaine said:
From reading your post, I can understand why you failed an essay exam.
Because the person made one or two typos? Wow...harsh. :thumbdown:
 

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prefontaine said:
From reading your post, I can understand why you failed an essay exam.
yeah, because people's posts on sdn are obviously a great indicator of their writing ability :rolleyes:
 

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Yup. You obviously have to exhibit your best writing skills when posting on forums so it is a fair representation of his writing ability.
 

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Is it normal for your school to give essay exams?
 

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Nittany Lion said:
Because the person made one or two typos? Wow...harsh. :thumbdown:

1 second and lloyd carr running the clock, minimum 3 michigan born officials at every home game, etc from the second non awarded natl championship in 11 years, not to mention taking out an additional 2 inches between the seats just to claim the big house is the biggest stadium, when there is only one biggest best stadium in the country

bobby bowden gets the nod for all time victories even though over 2 dozen of those are AA

everybody calling for msu to win in spite of the spread, the rodney dangerfield of div1A

we are...

i drove down from boston for the purdue game, did you see the lion doing the thriller zombie dance?
 

t33sg1rl

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What subject was this exam in? Was it medical humanities or sciences? I can't figure out how to outright fail a humanities essay given English is a first or second language, unless it was ethics and you took an unethical positition. At my school even the soft humanities exams are still multiple choice.

The other question: When you did your two appeals, did the people deciding have access to the essay you wrote and/or the grading standards for it?

It seems really harsh that they just kicked you out instead of asking you to repeat.
 

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prefontaine said:
From reading your post, I can understand why you failed an essay exam.

Holy crap, I never thought I'd see it - the dumbest judgement call on sdn.....


The guy is crapping his pants about failing out of school and you want him to correct his syntax/grammar/spelling?



OP, get a lawyer asap. Not to 'threaten' the school but just so you go thru it the right way. The lawyer should know what your proper recourse should be.
 

inabind

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t33sg1rl said:
What subject was this exam in? Was it medical humanities or sciences? I can't figure out how to outright fail a humanities essay given English is a first or second language, unless it was ethics and you took an unethical positition. At my school even the soft humanities exams are still multiple choice.

The other question: When you did your two appeals, did the people deciding have access to the essay you wrote and/or the grading standards for it?

It seems really harsh that they just kicked you out instead of asking you to repeat.
The exam was in Neuro.
 

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inabind said:
Frankly, I think the professor took off b/c I used a lot of abbreviations and my organization was a little sloppy. As far as the abbreviations I, for example, wrote MGB Thalamus, VP Thalamus, VL Thalamus instead of Medial Geniculate Body, Ventral Posterior and Ventral Lateral respectively (this exam was on Neuroscience and pretty much all the essay exam questions asked to describe the pathways for the different senses).
I agree with the other posters here. Hire a good lawyer to give the school a call. If they won't even let you see the grading process and yet kick you out, then that's something a good lawyer can get his/her hands and investigate.

I hope everything works out for you somehow.

God speed you safe and soundly,

C&C
 
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Morb said:
1 second and lloyd carr running the clock, minimum 3 michigan born officials at every home game, etc from the second non awarded natl championship in 11 years, not to mention taking out an additional 2 inches between the seats just to claim the big house is the biggest stadium, when there is only one biggest best stadium in the country

bobby bowden gets the nod for all time victories even though over 2 dozen of those are AA

everybody calling for msu to win in spite of the spread, the rodney dangerfield of div1A

we are...

i drove down from boston for the purdue game, did you see the lion doing the thriller zombie dance?

I've never been so mad in my life at that TD with 1 second to go... I could say a few choice profane words right now but I'll keep it clean. And NO i didn't get to see the lion do any dances this year... (dammit, why did I decide to go medical school THIS YEAR??!) I heard he did the Napoleon Dynamite dance too. I still can't believe how well we're doing, the year after I graduate :mad:

I should be studying now for my test coming up but I had to take a break to watch my lions pummel MSU... so far we've intercepted one pass in the first quarter...yeah I think we definitely got this... :thumbup:
 

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inabind said:
The exam was in Neuroscience. And during the appeals I didn't really focus too much on the Neuroscience exam b/c the purpose of the appeals was to determine whether I was academically fit to remain in the school or not.
what school do you go to?
 

quideam

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Inabind - do you happen to go to Cornell? Our school pulls this sort of crap all the time... essay exams, odd committees.... ugh. If it's Cornell, you'll have no luck w/ any of the neuro course directors, and the dean can be pretty uptight too. I'd go with getting a lawyer as well.

Q
 

quideam

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Probably not, but we're REALLY big on the bs here :p But anyway, I mentioned Cornell because we just finished our neuro course recently, and the make-ups (from what I've heard, so not 100% sure) are typically essay exams (because they're crazy).
 

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You don't get kicked out for failing one exam, you get kicked out for failing many many exams, not showing improvement, and topping it off by punching the dean in the face. It is difficult to fail medical school. If the committee and the dean both think that you aren't qualified for a medical degree, then there is more to this story than you are mentioning.

Knowing the grade on this one retake exam will tell you what exactly? You had to have failed many exams to be in this place.
 

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inabind,

Either your purposely not telling the whole story, or in denial - because it's clear that you've done more to warrant this than fail a couple of exams. Taking the focus off of that and putting it onto "how the essay exam was re-graded" is futility in action.
 

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I have two questions, and one has already been asked - but for fun, I'll repeat it:

1. Failing a single exam is not going to get you kicked out. There is something about the story that you aren't sharing.

2. To all the posters suggesting a lawyer, what law has been broken here? What can a lawyer do? If the school has specific policies about academic performance, and the OP failed to meet the standards... why get a lawyer? The "sue-somebody-when-something-bad-happens" mentality is something that future physicians should be opposed to.
 
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inabind

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robotsonic said:
You don't get kicked out for failing one exam, you get kicked out for failing many many exams, not showing improvement, and topping it off by punching the dean in the face. It is difficult to fail medical school. If the committee and the dean both think that you aren't qualified for a medical degree, then there is more to this story than you are mentioning.

Knowing the grade on this one retake exam will tell you what exactly? You had to have failed many exams to be in this place.

But its more than 'knowing the grade on the exam'. Before I walk away from the situation, I want to see how my essay exam was graded.

Right now, my life is totally f*cked up. My parents are incensed b/c all the financial support they've given me the past 2 years is pretty much down the drain. My parents have lost all faith in me. They're not going to give me any support financially or emotionally (at least in the short to medium term future).
 

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inabind said:
But its more than 'knowing the grade on the exam'. I got a 56 on the exam, if I had scored a 70, I would have passed the course and not have been put on dismissal status. Before I walk away from the situation, I want to see how my essay exam was graded.

Right now, my life is totally f*cked up. My parents are incensed b/c all the financial support they've given me the past 2 years is pretty much down the drain. My parents have lost all faith in me. They're not going to give me any support financially or emotionally (at least in the short to medium term future).

Right now, I'm probably going to have to go to the Carribean for medical school. I may even start applying to some Physician Assistant programs. But if I'm going to be applying go to Physician Assistant programs, I ***definitely*** want to see how my Neuroscience essay exam was graded relative to the other people who took the exam. I think I have that right.

I'm in the NYC area and I've starting emailing some lawyers about my situation. Some of the lawyers/law groups I've emailed do pro bono work and I told them I'm a student with little money. Hopefully, I'll get some legal help.
I just want to know how my essay exam was graded (relative to others) before I walk away from the situation.
 

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seriously, what else happened, it seems like most medical schools do not kick you out for simply failing a neuroanatomy retest... you don't need to tell us exactly, just let us know that there is other stuff going on or something, I don't think any of us really believe that this is all you've done.
 

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jonb12997 said:
seriously, what else happened, it seems like most medical schools do not kick you out for simply failing a neuroanatomy retest... you don't need to tell us exactly, just let us know that there is other stuff going on or something, I don't think any of us really believe that this is all you've done.
So maybe the criteria for re-admittance was stricter this time around.

But I just want to see you my essay exam was graded (relative to other who took the exam), that's all.
 

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couple of things:

-don't do anymore talking with the school at all. they've made it clear that you aren't going to effect their decision, so it's time for a lawyer to do the talking.

-you have a right know what you missed points for. your lawyer will be able to get this information, though it may not change the outcome

-it sounds like you've already been through the schools appeal process, which puts you at a disadvantage. becuase you've already exhausted the normal routes of appeal, your lawyer would have to find evidence that the school had violated their policies or be discriminatory in dismissing you.

-you don't get kicked out of med school for failing one exam. or two. or three. in fact, at my school we have a few students in our class repeating the first year (meaning they failed entire classes, not just a couple of exams) the point being that it seems more likely than not that you've struggled in other classes. if this is the case and you were on some sort of academic probabtion, then you may be screwed.

-it is imparitive that you stop focusing on this one exam. though we don't know your exact situation, it seems almost certain that you are in your prediciment due to a series of problems and as such if you want to have a "case" you're going to have to show how your situation was handled in a way that violated the schools policies. would the school have done the same to ANY student in your position? if the answer is yes, then there probably isn't much you can do about it. if you can show that the answer is no, then i say fight with everything you have (through your lawyer of course)

best of luck,
s
 

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inabind said:
Context: Normally, my school would have put students in our class in a decelerated 5-year program. Unfortunately, my class (former) is a 'transition year', we're the last year that is NOT totally systems-based. So instead of being put in a 5-year program (restarting as a 2nd year next year), I would have had to re-start as a 1st year in the new cirriculum that was NOT decelerated.

So maybe the criteria for re-admittance was stricter this time around.

But I just want to see you my essay exam was graded (relative to other who took the exam), that's all.
whoa! that is an interesting situation...

were you offered the chance to start again as a first year?
 

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whoa! that is an interesting situation...

were you offered the chance to start again as a first year?
Yes, I would have.
 

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inabind said:
Yes, I would have. I would have spent the ensuing 10 months (or whatever it is until the next academic year) studying the new cirriculum (this year's first years are the first to go through it and all the power points are online). I would not have been happy starting as a first year but that's was the best situation my school presented me with.
It's the same outcome, isn't it? I mean, if your school still has the 5 year program, you would re-start as a 2nd year and finish in 4 years. Since that option isn't available, you'll start as a 1st year and finish in 4 years - same period of time.

Edit: Oh, I get it... It seems that you're worried because the 4 year program is NOT decelarated (as you previously put it.) - a valid point.
 

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inabind said:
Yes, I would have. I would have spent the ensuing 10 months (or whatever it is until the next academic year) studying the new cirriculum (this year's first years are the first to go through it and all the power points are online). I would not have been happy starting as a first year but that's was the best situation my school presented me with.
???
i'm confused, were you offered the chance to repeat in the new curriculum?
 
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inabind

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stoic said:
???
i'm confused, were you offered the chance to repeat in the new curriculum?
No, if I won either of the appeals that's what the school would have offered.
 

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So wait, why isn't the school allowing you to at least start over in the new curriculum?? That doesn't make any sense - if you failed this year, you should be allowed a chance to re-do it. Have you re-taken the second year before? Is there a policy that you can't fail more than a certain number of classes or else they kick you out? It seems that they should at the very least allow you to start over with first year.
 

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inabind said:
No, if I won either of the appeals that's what the school would have offered.

inabind, if they offered you the opportunity to repeat from 1st year and essentially start over, why wouldn't you just do that instead of appealing to start in the 2nd year? Just go back to your school, tell them you'll repeat from the first year on (even if its not decelerated, you've seen the material before and you should be able to handle it - if you can't I hate to say it but perhaps the material really is too difficult). So you end up graduating a year later. Thats fine - youd be doing the same thing starting over at a Caribbean school anyway.
 

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quideam said:
So wait, why isn't the school allowing you to at least start over in the new curriculum?? That doesn't make any sense - if you failed this year, you should be allowed a chance to re-do it. Have you re-taken the second year before? Is there a policy that you can't fail more than a certain number of classes or else they kick you out? It seems that they should at the very least allow you to start over with first year.
I failed a couple of courses first year thus I began 2nd year on probation.

Neither the committee nor the dean thought I could succeed academically at the school thus I was expelled.
 

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Poety said:
inabind, if they offered you the opportunity to repeat from 1st year and essentially start over, why wouldn't you just do that instead of appealing to start in the 2nd year? Just go back to your school, tell them you'll repeat from the first year on (even if its not decelerated, you've seen the material before and you should be able to handle it - if you can't I hate to say it but perhaps the material really is too difficult). So you end up graduating a year later. Thats fine - youd be doing the same thing starting over at a Caribbean school anyway.
Because I lost both appeals, they didn't offer it. They would have offered it only if I had won either of the appeals.
 

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Nittany Lion said:
I've never been so mad in my life at that TD with 1 second to go... I could say a few choice profane words right now but I'll keep it clean. And NO i didn't get to see the lion do any dances this year... (dammit, why did I decide to go medical school THIS YEAR??!) I heard he did the Napoleon Dynamite dance too. I still can't believe how well we're doing, the year after I graduate :mad:

I should be studying now for my test coming up but I had to take a break to watch my lions pummel MSU... so far we've intercepted one pass in the first quarter...yeah I think we definitely got this... :thumbup:


i was, in 99, wrapped in my penn state blanket, with a comical expression on my face because my guts had just been kicked out by the golden gophers

i had spanish with michael robinson, he played himself into the nfl this year

which med school?
 

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inabind said:
I failed a couple of courses first year thus I began 2nd year on probation. I then failed Pharmacology and Neuroscience which lead the school to put me on dismissal status.
Was there something else happening in your life that was causing you to perform so poorly? If this stuff is that difficult for you to learn then maybe medicine isn't the right career. How are you going to pass the boards if you can't pass these exams?

Seriously, think about whether medicine is really what you want to do. Maybe you would be happier doing something else. Perhaps the material is so difficult because you just aren't that interested in it and are not motivated to learn it.
 

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inabind said:
I failed a couple of courses first year thus I began 2nd year on probation. I then failed Pharmacology and Neuroscience which lead the school to put me on dismissal status.

Neither the committee nor the dean thought I could succeed academically at the school thus I was expelled.

It just took me a while to figure out which study methods were best for me. Anatomy and Histology (both 1st year crs's; I passed both but did poorly in them, failed some exams) are well suited for illurstrations and drawings. For Pharmacology, I should have used flashcards. Reading and re-reading the handout's just wasn't doing the trick. Unfortunately, I figured these things out very late in the courses or after the crs was over.

But I know I can succeed in medical school so it looks like I'll be going down the Caribbean to continue my medical school education.
I'm not sure what a lawyer can do for you other than being able to look at the test, since it sounds like you've failed at least 5 exams (failed neuroanatomy and the makeup). But it can't hurt to try, I suppose.
 

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robotsonic said:
Was there something else happening in your life that was causing you to perform so poorly? If this stuff is that difficult for you to learn than maybe medicine isn't the right career. How are you going to pass the boards if you can't pass these exams?

Seriously, think about whether medicine is really what you want to do. Maybe you would be happier doing something else. Perhaps the material is so difficult because you just aren't that interested in it and are not motivated to learn it.
No, I know for certain I can succeed in medical school. Late in my 2nd year, I've adopted a new study method which helps my retention immensely. The exams I used this method for during 2nd year, I did fairly well in. But I started this late in my 2nd year so its impact on my record was too late.
 
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hey there, does your school allow students to review exams they have failed? if so, it would be unreasonable if they didn't allow you to do so for this exam... then again, seeing how it was graded would like only confirm your original score rather than it being changed, so you should really plan on what you need to do next (i.e. get a lawyer, apply to carribean schools, etc.) rather than what you've already done.

g'luck in the process.
 

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inabind - your situation really sounds terrible and I can't imagine what you are going through. Unfortunately I have seen the school's refer students to their policy committess only for them to drag on the answer they gave the first time. At the end of the day, its hard to fight policy especially if you were aware of it beforehand. Have you tried talking to the professors in your class to explain your situation and see if you could get some points or at least see how they graded your exam?
 

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Hmmmm.....I'm wondering why this person posted this in the allopathic forum, because this person probably goes to NYCOM. First of all, not too many medical schools take Neuroscience during their second year. Not proof enough, there is a new curriculm at NYCOM - system based - that has just started this year. Also, they have just implemented the "retake" system as well. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. Why ask for advice if you're not being truthful or totally honest?
 

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I don't see why that's being dishonest? Though the not telling us that he has already failed several exams is.

Anyway, I take neurology 2nd year. in fact, my exam's monday :(
 

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If you get dismissed from a medical school, can you get into another one? I thought it was against the law and if you did slip by and were found out later, you would definitely get expelled for sure.
 

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Undecided1 said:
Hmmmm.....I'm wondering why this person posted this in the allopathic forum, because this person probably goes to NYCOM. First of all, not too many medical schools take Neuroscience during their second year. Not proof enough, there is a new curriculm at NYCOM - system based - that has just started this year. Also, they have just implemented the "retake" system as well. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. Why ask for advice if you're not being truthful or totally honest?
Sorry, didn't see the point why it matters whether he posted in allo or osteo... the advice most people have been giving wouldn't change just because of that... s/he's just asking for some advice here.

I agree with the posters before me. I know of a student in our class who failed basically everything, and was allowed to repeat an entire year. They essentially gave him a chance to prove himself and show that he is able to handle the curriculum, even if he was unable to do so in the first run. If you failed 4 classes (from what I counted), that should not have been enough for them to completely dismiss you. Most medical schools (allo or osteo) give another year's chance to students (you are an investment to them, after all). Unless you've done something else, like stealing the dean's dog, then this should have been offered to you.
 

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When I first read the post (I might be wrong) I thought he had been kicked out because he decelerated to repeat a year and was repeating neuroscience then failed the course for the second time so they expelled him?
 

tupac_don

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inabind said:
I failed a couple of courses first year thus I began 2nd year on probation.

Neither the committee nor the dean thought I could succeed academically at the school thus I was expelled.
Well there is your problem. Why they dont' wanna let you see the essay I don't know, but just move on man. If you did get a lawyer, you would just get things more messy and for what just so you can see your essay. It seems that you screwed up one too many times and the school decided to expell you. Rotten situation to be in, but you should have nipped this in the bud long time ago, probably around the time of failing your first test. I personally think is that you should cut your losses, don't piss the school off to bad, so that you can get some reference letters if you wanna apply to PA school. As far as med school, I would just cut my losses and leave. I mean it might seem like a ****ty situation now, but you never know. From what you know this could be a blessing in disguise. Best of luck man. Hang in there.
 
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