Kroger pillages their pharmacists... but is expanding elsewhere

[wagrxm2000]

Yes, but most people have structured their lives around their current income and changing that could be painful. There are fixed monthly costs for most people, like mortgages or rent, that aren’t quickly changed.

Honestly I’d have to stop saving so much for my future, which is also painful and disruptive to any future plans of retiring.

Or you can get rid of the monetary things you don't need. Millions of people would love to get paid 100k for 32 hours of work.

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[radio frequency]

Or you can get rid of the monetary things you don't need. Millions of people would love to get paid 100k for 32 hours of work.

Already done, personally. But if they cut my pay that much, I’d quit and find an alternative job with less stress.

 

[Swishers]

The expensive and long pharmacy education doesn't entitle us to $150k a year. I wouldn't be surprised if average salaries dropped to <$80k within the next 10-15 years when CVS/Walgreens/Amazon run everything. There are too many of us.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Already done, personally. But if they cut my pay that much, I’d quit and find an alternative job with less stress.

What is this stress you're talking about?

 

[steveysmith54]

Or you can get rid of the monetary things you don't need. Millions of people would love to get paid 100k for 32 hours of work.

I think the problem is millions of people also didn't go to school for 8 yrs and didn't accumulate so much debt.
If you live in a city like LA, as douche of me to say this, but it's just kinda hard to live on a 100K, a one bedroom is 2000 a month in most decent parts of LA nowadays.

 

[wagrxm2000]

I think the problem is millions of people also didn't go to school for 8 yrs and didn't accumulate so much debt.
If you live in a city like LA, as douche of me to say this, but it's just kinda hard to live on a 100K, a one bedroom is 2000 a month in most decent parts of LA nowadays.

Unfortunately you'll have to move.

Anyone who took out 200k clearly didn't do their research in this field first, they saw money and that's all that mattered.

 

[steveysmith54]

Unfortunately you'll have to move.

Anyone who took out 200k clearly didn't do their research in this field first, they saw money and that's all that mattered.

I think they are still a lot of people who started Pharmacy school over a decade ago where sign on bonuses and OT were actually a thing. I feel for those people.

The newbies who are going to west coast, KGI, Chapman, Ketchum thinking that they will make it doing mtm, I could care less about them

 

[radio frequency]

What is this stress you're talking about?

My job now is fine but I still wouldn’t do it for a pay cut to $80k...or probably even $100k. I value my time more than that. The other available jobs I see with my training I will take a hard pass on. Read the post someone here wrote on being burnt out for why.

 

[Gombrich12]

"The newbies who are going to west coast, KGI, Chapman, Ketchum thinking that they will make it doing mtm, I could care less about them"

The SLC (student loan conduits) that attend those schools have no other options, it's ok to feel a little bad for them.

 

[wagrxm2000]

My job now is fine but I still wouldn’t do it for a pay cut to $80k...or probably even $100k. I value my time more than that. The other available jobs I see with my training I will take a hard pass on. Read the post someone here wrote on being burnt out for why.

So what would the plan be?

I could personally care less, I'm so far into this career. It might cause me to work 1 or 2 more years.

 

[radio frequency]

So what would the plan be?

I could personally care less, I'm so far into this career. It might cause me to work 1 or 2 more years.

Options outside pharmacy. I actually do have other options I don’t mind, they just aren’t pharmacy-specific. I don’t like to share in great detail here.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Options outside pharmacy. I actually do have other options I don’t mind, they just aren’t pharmacy-specific. I don’t like to share in great detail here.

That pay as well?

If so I'm sure many would like to hear then.

 

[radio frequency]

That pay as well?

If so I'm sure many would like to hear then.

Like I said, I have options. They’d pay equivalent to a pharmacist pay cut. Maybe better. Others may not have the same options but they can always make their own.

 

[johnpharm01]

The appeal of the pharmacy market has been the easy route to six figure income. That's eroding away. Is there really job satisfaction beyond that (in retail)? So busy can't have a meaningful counseling session with customers. Not enough and poor quality support staff. Long hours without lunch and maybe not even a bathroom break.
I like radio frequency's position. WAG RXM 2000 to say that many people would like to earn a six figure income is a corporate tactic to make you feel grateful for your income, an emotion that does not belong in business dealings.

 

[wagrxm2000]

The appeal of the pharmacy market has been the easy route to six figure income. That's eroding away. Is there really job satisfaction beyond that (in retail)? So busy can't have a meaningful counseling session with customers. Not enough and poor quality support staff. Long hours without lunch and maybe not even a bathroom break.
I like radio frequency's position. WAG RXM 2000 to say that many people would like to earn a six figure income is a corporate tactic to make you feel grateful for your income, an emotion that does not belong in business dealings.

I think you misunderstand my position. While I believe people should be happy with 100k salary, my point has always been 99% of kids who go into this program see that six figures and it's the sole reason they join.

If you truly want to help patients, you should be a doctor, not a pharmacist but it's much easier to be a pharmacist. That and you get paid six figures.

I help my customers out to the best of my ability unfortunately I'm limited to what I'm allowed to do.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you joined this profession for the correct reasons, 100k should be fine. Too many people though need money to be happy.

 

[PharmDBro2017]

I think you misunderstand my position. While I believe people should be happy with 100k salary, my point has always been 99% of kids who go into this program see that six figures and it's the sole reason they join.

If you truly want to help patients, you should be a doctor, not a pharmacist but it's much easier to be a pharmacist. That and you get paid six figures.

I help my customers out to the best of my ability unfortunately I'm limited to what I'm allowed to do.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you joined this profession for the correct reasons, 100k should be fine. Too many people though need money to be happy.

Easy for you to say when you didn’t graduate with 150-200k+ in loans like new grads are. Yes, they chose that path...I know. Regardless, 130k is a lot more than 100k.


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[radio frequency]

I think you misunderstand my position. While I believe people should be happy with 100k salary, my point has always been 99% of kids who go into this program see that six figures and it's the sole reason they join.

If you truly want to help patients, you should be a doctor, not a pharmacist but it's much easier to be a pharmacist. That and you get paid six figures.

I help my customers out to the best of my ability unfortunately I'm limited to what I'm allowed to do.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you joined this profession for the correct reasons, 100k should be fine. Too many people though need money to be happy.

So...if you won $5 million in the lottery, would you keep working for Walgreens? People go to work for money. If you were suddenly enriched in a different way, I have a feeling you might change your plans.

“Correct reasons” is just another way of stating how superior you are to all those plebs out there who must work for money. You know...to feed children and pay for a roof over their heads. Apparently you would prefer to enrich Walgreens on a volunteer basis?

 

[wagrxm2000]

Easy for you to say when you didn’t graduate with 150-200k+ in loans like new grads are. Yes, they chose that path...I know. Regardless, 130k is a lot more than 100k.


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So...if you won $5 million in the lottery, would you keep working for Walgreens? People go to work for money. If you were suddenly enriched in a different way, I have a feeling you might change your plans.

“Correct reasons” is just another way of stating how superior you are to all those plebs out there who work for money. Apparently you would prefer to enrich Walgreens on a volunteer basis?

You both seem to have a lot to learn in life.

Money isn't everything.

 

[Gombrich12]

You both seem to have a lot to learn in life.

Money isn't everything.

Money is absolutely the only reason someone works a crap chain retail job. If it wasn't about money and serving the community you could be doing much better things with your time.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Money is absolutely the only reason someone works a crap chain retail job. If it wasn't about money and serving the community you could be doing much better things with your time.

That's the problem, some of us like our job.

Sometimes I don't think you guys hear yourselves. You went into a field you consider crap for the money and all you do is complain that you hate your job.

 

[radio frequency]

That's the problem, some of us like our job.

Sometimes I don't think you guys hear yourselves. You went into a field you consider crap for the money and all you do is complain that you hate your job.

My job is fine. I wouldn’t want YOUR job.

 

[PharmDBro2017]

You both seem to have a lot to learn in life.

Money isn't everything.

It is when your net worth is extremely negative...




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[Mambo#5]

You both seem to have a lot to learn in life.

Money isn't everything.

Try living without it.

 

[johnpharm01]

That's the problem, some of us like our job.

Sometimes I don't think you guys hear yourselves. You went into a field you consider crap for the money and all you do is complain that you hate your job.

I don't think these guys are greedy or believe the money is garbage, they just need to earn the full 40 hours a week to meet their financial obligations including their school loan repayment. Is this by their own choosing? Yes, but I wouldn't blame the individual entirely. Schools have increased the cost of the attendance far too much. My daughter is a teacher and her student loan debt is a years gross wages. I looked at a comp sci degree from SNHCU. A credit hour is 10 times what it cost to go to school compared to the last time I went.

 

[wagrxm2000]

I don't think these guys are greedy or believe the money is garbage, they just need to earn the full 40 hours a week to meet their financial obligations including their school loan repayment. Is this by their own choosing? Yes, but I wouldn't blame the individual entirely. Schools have increased the cost of the attendance far too much. My daughter is a teacher and her student loan debt is a years gross wages. I looked at a comp sci degree from SNHCU. A credit hour is 10 times what it cost to go to school compared to the last time I went.

This is all I'm saying, people made choices and I think a lot made bad ones. If people didn't see this coming, they didn't do their research and that's on them.

I know there are some crappy stores out there and the job is stressful, but most actually aren't. Every store gets ran through the same algorithm or whatever they use to determine hours. If someone wants me to help them fix their store I'll gladly help them out. Every store can be fixed.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Hard to feel sorry for pharmacists when they make 100k for only 4 years of post undergrad schooling and don’t have to deal with needle stick hep C hazards like nurses and docs do (besides vaccines maybe).

Wanna see desperation? Head over to the Optometry section. They can barely find part time work to make 70k/year with 200k+ student loan debt.

There is work out there for pharmacists if you look at rural areas. Granted, I personally think they should close down 80% of the Pharmacy schools before it comes to law school level crazytown.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

don’t have to deal with needle stick hep C hazards like nurses and docs do (besides vaccines maybe).

This made me laugh. Great to know I don't have to deal with this...oh, except for the hundreds of times I have to deal with it annually.

 

[owlegrad]

This made me laugh. Great to know I don't have to deal with this...oh, except for the hundreds of times I have to deal with it annually.

I also laughed at that.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Hard to feel sorry for pharmacists when they make 100k for only 4 years of post undergrad schooling and don’t have to deal with needle stick hep C hazards like nurses and docs do (besides vaccines maybe).

Wanna see desperation? Head over to the Optometry section. They can barely find part time work to make 70k/year with 200k+ student loan debt.

There is work out there for pharmacists if you look at rural areas. Granted, I personally think they should close down 80% of the Pharmacy schools before it comes to law school level crazytown.

Remember always scoop the cap when placing it back on the syringe.

 

[owlegrad]

Remember always scoop the cap when placing it back on the syringe.

Noooo! Never recap a needle, period. Just drop it in the sharps after using. No chance of any needle sticks.

 

[DrVader]

Seriously, might be tight? 100k is still way higher then the average family brings in.

To be fair, most people don't have 200k in student loans. So yes, pharmacist make more money but we have higher day. We also went through 6 years without being paid. So there is lost income as well.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Noooo! Never recap a needle, period. Just drop it in the sharps after using. No chance of any needle sticks.

Sorry I meant after drawing it up.

Always use retractable needless.

 

[wagrxm2000]

To be fair, most people don't have 200k in student loans. So yes, pharmacist make more money but we have higher day. We also went through 6 years without being paid. So there is lost income as well.

Last time I checked my college was under $20k per year. So..... Stop going to those schools?

My point still is, stop going to pharmacy school for the money.

 

[radio frequency]

Last time I checked my college was under $20k per year. So..... Stop going to those schools?

My point still is, stop going to pharmacy school for the money.

Real people who have paid off their school costs still depend on regular hours and a salary. We have elderly parents to support and kids to raise and put through college and a lack of future Social Security guarantees. Some of us own modest houses we have to pay for.

Hard to feel sorry for pharmacists when they make 100k for only 4 years of post undergrad schooling and don’t have to deal with needle stick hep C hazards like nurses and docs do (besides vaccines maybe).

Wanna see desperation? Head over to the Optometry section. They can barely find part time work to make 70k/year with 200k+ student loan debt.

There is work out there for pharmacists if you look at rural areas. Granted, I personally think they should close down 80% of the Pharmacy schools before it comes to law school level crazytown.

Seriously; how is it preposterous to expect over $100k for 40 hours per week after 8 years of schooling after high school? (yes, I know there are schools with shorter educations but these aren’t today’s norms). Lawyers expect more than that and they have less liability and have just 7 years after high school. Also, most pharmacists vaccinate day in and day out so your needle stick point is moot. I even know a pharmacist who needed to take antivirals due to unintended exposure at work. The risk is there and it is real.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Can’t you get into state schools? Aren’t those schools like 20-25k/year in tuition? Add in cost of living and insurance and I would imagine you could get by with 45k/year for pharmacy school.

If you make 110k/year as a pharmacist and went 200k in debt to do so, I’d still consider that a reasonable investment. 110k becomes 80k after taxes, hold off on retirement and live off of 35k per year, you’ll be out of debt in 5 years

 

[GypsyHummus]

I don’t think it’s proposterous, but there are people out there with 4 years after college education making much less. Again, look at Optometry, most new grads are cobbling together part time work for 70k/year gross.

PhDs typically have 4 years post undergrad, yet make around 50-70k/year. That is public information.

Most lawyers aren’t pulling in 100k. If you can find a job nowadays, your looking at maybe 50k.

Seriously; how is it preposterous to expect over $100k for 40 hours per week after 8 years of schooling after high school? (yes, I know there are schools with shorter educations but these aren’t today’s norms). Lawyers expect more than that and they have less liability and have just 7 years after high school. Also, most pharmacists vaccinate day in and day out so your needle stick point is moot. I even know a pharmacist who needed to take antivirals due to unintended exposure at work. The risk is there and it is real.

 

[radio frequency]

I don’t think it’s proposterous, but there are people out there with 4 years after college education making much less. Again, look at Optometry, most new grads are cobbling together part time work for 70k/year gross.

PhDs typically have 4 years post undergrad, yet make around 50-70k/year. That is public information.

Most lawyers aren’t pulling in 100k. If you can find a job nowadays, your looking at maybe 50k.

Well, the PhD market is notoriously bad. I feel terrible for most PhDs; they have been sold a bill of goods.

I hadn’t heard optometry was so awful and I’m rather surprised as I recently heard of an optometrist fresh out of school opening a practice and doing very well.

The lawyers I know must be spectacular as they are all well over $100k unless they work in the public sector.

 

[wagrxm2000]

Real people who have paid off their school costs still depend on regular hours and a salary. We have elderly parents to support and kids to raise and put through college and a lack of future Social Security guarantees. Some of us own modest houses we have to pay for.



Seriously; how is it preposterous to expect over $100k for 40 hours per week after 8 years of schooling after high school? (yes, I know there are schools with shorter educations but these aren’t today’s norms). Lawyers expect more than that and they have less liability and have just 7 years after high school. Also, most pharmacists vaccinate day in and day out so your needle stick point is moot. I even know a pharmacist who needed to take antivirals due to unintended exposure at work. The risk is there and it is real.

The same way teachers pay for all that.

I've already stated many times before what a new grad should be doing to pay off their loans. You ask your parents to live with them for three more years. You toss 50k a year at your loans each year. Your remainder is what you get to live off of.

I understand this doesn't work for everyone but the typical new grad should be able to do this. If you're married, you tell your significant other they need to take care of all costs while you concentrate on your loans, you can have children later. If you have children or parents to take care of...well why did you just take out a huge loan in a horrible market? If you are out on your own, you find a roommate and split rent. Your rent shouldn't be more than $500/month, if that means a third roommate, you find one.

Giving up three years of your life for a bad decision is how you fix your mistake. Congrats you have that license for the rest of your life whether or not you're a pharmacist still in five years.

 

[radio frequency]

The same way teachers pay for all that.

I've already stated many times before what a new grad should be doing to pay off their loans. You ask your parents to live with them for three more years. You toss 50k a year at your loans each year. Your remainder is what you get to live off of.

I understand this doesn't work for everyone but the typical new grad should be able to do this. If you're married, you tell your significant other they need to take care of all costs while you concentrate on your loans, you can have children later. If you have children or parents to take care of...well why did you just take out a huge loan in a horrible market? If you are out on your own, you find a roommate and split rent. Your rent shouldn't be more than $500/month, if that means a third roommate, you find one.

Giving up three years of your life for a bad decision is how you fix your mistake. Congrats you have that license for the rest of your life whether or not you're a pharmacist still in five years.

I don’t have loans as I paid them off, so I assume you are discussing pharmacists in general. I can’t say you’re wrong on paying off loans; they are best gone ASAP.

 

[wagrxm2000]

I don’t have loans as I paid them off, so I assume you are discussing pharmacists in general. I can’t say you’re wrong on paying off loans; they are best gone ASAP.

Oh then I'm really unsure why 100k isn't enough. My family doesn't come even close to needing that..... Which is also why I'll be retiring when I'm 50.

 

[radio frequency]

Oh then I'm really unsure why 100k isn't enough. My family doesn't come even close to needing that..... Which is also why I'll be retiring when I'm 50.

Because a cut to my income now would prevent me from doing the same. Really though; how much income is enough? That’s not really something you can decide for anybody but yourself. You are persistent in your belief you know all though.

 

[BenJammin]

Oh my. Some of you are so spoiled it's ridiculous. Nobody put a gun to your head and forced you to attend a school that would cost you north of 200k.

But back to Kroger. I think it's funny because I mentioned years ago that you kiddos who think you can slide through retail by being a staff pharmacist were making a big mistake. This is a genius move by Kroger. What better way to get people to become PIC than force everyone who isn't one to work only 32 hours? Want 40 hours? Get some skin in the game and become a PIC. It's genius and something the other chains will do very soon

 

[wagrxm2000]

Because a cut to my income now would prevent me from doing the same. Really though; how much income is enough? That’s not really something you can decide for anybody but yourself. You are persistent in your belief you know all though.

I just call it like I see it.

You still don't understand what I'm saying since you keep saying how do I know 100k isn't enough. This is why those people are in this mess. They saw money.

 

[GypsyHummus]

There are people working 60hours/week making 35K/year and people are complaining about 40 hour workweeks and making 100K as a pharmacist. Not saying the PharmD life isnt tough, but life can get a lot tougher.

Because a cut to my income now would prevent me from doing the same. Really though; how much income is enough? That’s not really something you can decide for anybody but yourself. You are persistent in your belief you know all though.

 

[wagrxm2000]

There are people working 60hours/week making 35K/year and people are complaining about 40 hour workweeks and making 100K as a pharmacist. Not saying the PharmD life isnt tough, but life can get a lot tougher.

But they have loans? Don't they deserve it to be paid even more?

 

[johnpharm01]

There are people working 60hours/week making 35K/year and people are complaining about 40 hour workweeks and making 100K as a pharmacist. Not saying the PharmD life isnt tough, but life can get a lot tougher.

I served in the military took home $250 to $800 per two week pay period. Got to use the restroom, eat meals, and take care of personal needs. Also had support of management. Worked at a major chain took home well over $3000 per pay period frankly inhumane working conditions no bathroom break, no lunch, no support from management who gets both.

 

[GypsyHummus]

If you are asking me, Id say yes, but its not up to me. Ultimately, the market will decide. If there is a demand for pharmaceutical services (there is) and a low supply of pharmacists (there is not), then salaries will be high.

As long as schools can get away with 40-50K in tuition each year, they will continue to pump out more PharmDs. And pharmacists dont retire very frequently.

But they have loans? Don't they deserve it to be paid even more?

 

[wagrxm2000]

I served in the military took home $250 to $800 per two week pay period. Got to use the restroom, eat meals, and take care of personal needs. Also had support of management. Worked at a major chain took home well over $3000 per pay period frankly inhumane working conditions no bathroom break, no lunch, no support from management who gets both.

It's like we have two completely different jobs.

Lunch at noon everyday no matter what.

 

[radio frequency]

I just call it like I see it.

You still don't understand what I'm saying since you keep saying how do I know 100k isn't enough. This is why those people are in this mess. They saw money.

I actually don’t think they saw money because if they did, they’d count that $200k in loans as a major liability and look elsewhere. Maybe they did see money and fundamentally misunderstood how loans work? I don’t know. What I do know is that there are people who have crazy high costs that aren’t due to overspending...they’re due to health issues, sudden and unexpected family deaths, etc. They really rely on their incomes to stay consistent and changes will be harder on them.

 

[wagrxm2000]

I actually don’t think they saw money because if they did, they’d count that $200k in loans as a major liability and look elsewhere. Maybe they did see money and fundamentally misunderstood how loans work? I don’t know. What I do know is that there are people who have crazy high costs that aren’t due to overspending...they’re due to health issues, sudden and unexpected family deaths, etc. They really rely on their incomes to stay consistent and changes will be harder on them.

And you're talking about a small part of the pharmacist community.

And also once again, this happens to everyone including those teachers that got you to where you are today.