Kroger pillages their pharmacists... but is expanding elsewhere

[Wickett]

Oh my. Some of you are so spoiled it's ridiculous. Nobody put a gun to your head and forced you to attend a school that would cost you north of 200k.

But back to Kroger. I think it's funny because I mentioned years ago that you kiddos who think you can slide through retail by being a staff pharmacist were making a big mistake. This is a genius move by Kroger. What better way to get people to become PIC than force everyone who isn't one to work only 32 hours? Want 40 hours? Get some skin in the game and become a PIC. It's genius and something the other chains will do very soon

I agree overall. Just like people shouldn't go into pharmacy if they're totally against or incapable of working retail, don't go into retail pharmacy if you're against or incapable of being a PIC. I graduated in 2016 and grabbed a BFE PIC job at a good company straight away....friends thought I was nuts for doing so right out of school and leaving the metro area, but I was scared ****less of the other impending school openings and I didn't want to worry about my hours being cut with my loan debt.

I hoped it wouldn't come to it, but it seemed what's happening now was on the horizon back then. I think the market will correct some in time and eventually we will see less new grads, but I think the only people with job security and a guaranteed 40/wk are only going to be PICs.

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[OXYFORALL]

It's like we have two completely different jobs.

Lunch at noon everyday no matter what.

Told by my former DM at RAD that I was only allowed 5-10 minutes to eat and could not leave the actual pharmacy area to take lunch. Had to pull up actual NJ rules on meal breaks for pharmacists and enlighten him. Problem is when you're the only rph standing up for yourself it paints a big target on your back. Last I heard my ex DM was still working in the Phila,Pa area and still a dick.

 

[OXYFORALL]

There are people working 60hours/week making 35K/year and people are complaining about 40 hour workweeks and making 100K as a pharmacist. Not saying the PharmD life isnt tough, but life can get a lot tougher.

Did these people go to college for six years?

 

[DrVader]

Last time I checked my college was under $20k per year. So..... Stop going to those schools?

My point still is, stop going to pharmacy school for the money.

For the first few years at my school, I was only paying 10k. But the grants and scholarship dried up one by one. My last year, I took out 50k.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Many went to college for four. I know a number of English and Com majors barley making 30k. Teachers make around that too.

And without any aid, college at a decent state school can cost 20k/year

Did these people go to college for six years?

 

[wagrxm2000]

For the first few years at my school, I was only paying 10k. But the grants and scholarship dried up one by one. My last year, I took out 50k.

Holy crap

 

[WestCoastRPH]

You should join a Union, particularly the Independent Pharmacists' Association. It is a non-affiliated union of pharmacists and interns on the west coast. They don't put up with this B.S. since they are under a contract which does not allow this crap.

 

[Corpseman]

Wage freezes and hiring freezes in my division this year, just announced.

Edit: also, in response to the OP it's easy to add 11000 workers when they are only guaranteed 4 hours a week when they start.

 

[FarmDee81]

You should join a Union, particularly the Independent Pharmacists' Association. It is a non-affiliated union of pharmacists and interns on the west coast. They don't put up with this B.S. since they are under a contract which does not allow this crap.

Pharmacists have little motivation and much to fear by organizing when they already have a job ... but I wonder if organizing after the layoffs might be beneficial. Presumably pharmacists have some time on their hands after getting laid off. Getting a few pharmacists together and picketing a store about unfair labor practices might get on the news. Retail companies hate bad publicity. There are probably an unseen army of pharmacists out there that have been fired for questionable reasons.

 

[quickpic007]

Wage freezes and hiring freezes in my division this year, just announced.

Edit: also, in response to the OP it's easy to add 11000 workers when they are only guaranteed 4 hours a week when they start.

Whats the status on Walmart?

 

[Corpseman]

Whats the status on Walmart?

Whats the status on Walmart?

Took a job elsewhere that had a better offer. We will see what the future holds.

 

[Lnsean]

I don't understand the rationale behind cutting every 5 RPHs down to 32 hours in lieu of laying off the 5th guy and keeping 4 FT. The company would save more on FICA by the former. Is this simply sadism on a grand scale? I mean, these are adults with fixed costs such as mortgages and other loans to service. Do their loans magically get cut by 20%? This isn't just Kroger. I've seen done across other industries
.
The only other thing I can think of is very dark. Like something from the movie Hostel. Have you ever heard of dead peasant insurance? What I fear is a step above that. Dark death pool betting. Instead of destroying the life one-fifth of the work force, distribute the agony over all fifths. Worsen working conditions. Make everybody feel like they're "walking on glass" with all passive aggressive harrasment vis-a-vis KPIs. The castle dwellers back in corporate sit back and watch a higher percentage than 20% eventually quit or die, collecting on whatever the prop bet stipulates. There could be vastly more money in this than we realize.

It's a simple answer: leverage. When I was RXM, the hidden curriculum was to never give any of your techs the full 40. They would always just hover around 32-36. This gives you a lot of leverage over your employees.

 

[gwarm01]

The other day on r/pharmacy someone posted that every Kroger pharmacist in the DFW area hired in the past year had been laid off. Anyone hear about this? Scary stuff if true. It also makes me wonder what is going on with Kroger. Most of this stuff is anecdotal, but it feels like we hear more bad news from Kroger every other day.

 

[PharmtoCS]

I actually don’t think they saw money because if they did, they’d count that $200k in loans as a major liability and look elsewhere. Maybe they did see money and fundamentally misunderstood how loans work?

From my experience it seems to be the latter. Some guy who argued with me on Reddit claimed among the lines of "as a pharmacist you make $120k/year which is still $20k more than a $100k/year software engineer. You only need 10 years to break even if you have $200k in loans."

He did not take into account the
1) taxes you would have to pay on that "extra" $20k/year you earn as a pharmacist - by the way, which you no longer qualify for any student loan deductions because of how much you earn,
2) compounded interest on those $200k loans, and
3) the high probability that salaries will drop due to the saturation.

I would say that it's a misunderstanding of how loans, taxes, and lost earnings opportunity cost works.

 

[Dr. Galazkiewicz]

It's a simple answer: leverage. When I was RXM, the hidden curriculum was to never give any of your techs the full 40. They would always just hover around 32-36. This gives you a lot of leverage over your employees.

Yeah, I was thinking of that, too. The trouble was always getting a pharmacy to cover for sick shifts, but after 40-44 hours who had the energy? But if all the chicks are starved for cash there will always be a hungry grad who wants to go full Dave Ramsey and scoop up that 5th shift.

 

[RX CARE]

All I would say is that it’s really sobering when you realize that all these things are happening after a massive tax cut. Smh

 

[Lnsean]

All I would say is that it’s really sobering when you realize that all these things are happening after a massive tax cut. Smh

All it means is that this problem is specific/inherent to pharmacy.

 

[Lnsean]

Yeah, I was thinking of that, too. The trouble was always getting a pharmacy to cover for sick shifts, but after 40-44 hours who had the energy? But if all the chicks are starved for cash there will always be a hungry grad who wants to go full Dave Ramsey and scoop up that 5th shift.

Yep. Create some artificial competition for these hours and people will be at your mercy. I hear some pharmacists will say "well I love working just 32 hours...it's so great" but these are usually lies and a way to just save face...because 99% of the time it isn't by choice...they're just being forced to do 32. You're at the peak of your mental/physical health, so you want to maximize your earnings potential. Sure, there are a few people who may want to just work 32 hours a week, but that's a lot of income potential being lost there. The different between 32 hours and 40 hours isn't much in terms of time, but that translates into a 20% reduction in income--which is a lot.

 

[OXYFORALL]

GOP Tax Cuts: Are They Really Becoming Less Popular?

Item 1 is funny

 

[Dr. Galazkiewicz]

Yep. Create some artificial competition for these hours and people will be at your mercy. I hear some pharmacists will say "well I love working just 32 hours...it's so great" but these are usually lies and a way to just save face...because 99% of the time it isn't by choice...they're just being forced to do 32. You're at the peak of your mental/physical health, so you want to maximize your earnings potential. Sure, there are a few people who may want to just work 32 hours a week, but that's a lot of income potential being lost there. The different between 32 hours and 40 hours isn't much in terms of time, but that translates into a 20% reduction in income--which is a lot.

Yeah, if you're in your 20's you really want to make the stash then because:

1) Who knows how long the rx gravy train will keep rolling. Healthcare is likely to implode by 2021 by the sheer math of the fiscal state of the economy.
2) When you get past 35 the body doesn't recover from rough shifts.

 

[PieRoller]

It’s getting worse by the day at Kroger.

PIC is 40 hours, 1 Pharmacist is 32 hours , other pharmacist(s) only 20 hours.

Also DM has threatened terminations if we don’t perform well in Clinical. However, no EXACT performance metrics have been defined.

 

[BidingMyTime]

Did these people go to college for six years?

Length of time in college has nothing to do with income. There are many Ph.D's in arcane subjects such as women's lit or medieval history working at starbucks. A better argument is that because of pharmacist's value to society they are worth their pay (regardless of how long they went to school), but because pharmacist's have almost completely failed in articulating their value to society, nobody outside of pharmacy buys that argument.

Sure, there are a few people who may want to just work 32 hours a week, but that's a lot of income potential being lost there. The different between 32 hours and 40 hours isn't much in terms of time, but that translates into a 20% reduction in income--which is a lot.

You forget, the majority of pharmacy graduates these days are female and of prime child-bearing age. And 8 hours extra per week to have with one's children matters far more at this point than worrying about ones retirement far in the future. A little bit more unusual, but even dad's might appreciate 8 hours per more with their children/week. (Now if you are talking childless people saying they are happy with 32 hours/week......then I agree they are either lying or stupid.)

 

[Lnsean]

Length of time in college has nothing to do with income. There are many Ph.D's in arcane subjects such as women's lit or medieval history working at starbucks. A better argument is that because of pharmacist's value to society they are worth their pay (regardless of how long they went to school), but because pharmacist's have almost completely failed in articulating their value to society, nobody outside of pharmacy buys that argument.



You forget, the majority of pharmacy graduates these days are female and of prime child-bearing age. And 8 hours extra per week to have with one's children matters far more at this point than worrying about ones retirement far in the future. A little bit more unusual, but even dad's might appreciate 8 hours per more with their children/week. (Now if you are talking childless people saying they are happy with 32 hours/week......then I agree they are either lying or stupid.)

I don't agree. That should be a personal decision to go 32 hours and not one being forced by the company and you having to explain it away like you did.

 

[beautifulrobot]

I don't agree. That should be a personal decision to go 32 hours and not one being forced by the company and you having to explain it away like you did.

Ideally it would be a mutual decision between the employer and employee. Either way, bidingmytime isnt arguing that it's right to cut hours, just that the majority of new grads are likely to not object, and may even embrace, a cut in hours.

 

[Lnsean]

Ideally it would be a mutual decision between the employer and employee. Either way, bidingmytime isnt arguing that it's right to cut hours, just that the majority of new grads are likely to not object, and may even embrace, a cut in hours.

My point is I think it's more about being passive than really embracing it. The profession as a whole is too passive and we just take whatever is given to us...like this new 32/hr thing. It will be the norm because we accept it.

What's really perplexing is that I came into this thread expecting that all of us should be at the very least outraged and angry about this 32/hr week thing...but instead a lot of us are trying to rationalize it on behalf of these companies.