Landing the Academic Job You Want

[TheComebacKid]

PGY-3 here, going to do an EMS fellowship.

I am interested in pursuing an academic job that involves some component of resident/student education, clinical time and EMS medical direction/prehospital research.

I think there is some notion that academic jobs are not that hard to find for fellowship trained people given the pay cut and opportunity cost of going to fellowship. However, I am concerned that one of the elephants in the room is location. For a multitude of personal reasons I'm going to be restricted to doing fellowship in the midwest, which I'm fine with, however, afterwards, my wife has a strong desire to move to the coast to be closer to family. My understanding is that these academic jobs in highly desirably locations i.e. Boston, NY, LA, SF, Seattle, Portland, are very hard to come by, especially if you didn't do residency training/fellowship in that area. They are also highly inbred just from looking at the faculty lists on the websites.

In addition beefing up my academic resume, being a chief resident, research/teaching and fellowship, what else can one do to increase their chances of landing an academic job in one of these "desirable" locations?

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[WilcoWorld]

PGY-3 here, going to do an EMS fellowship.

I am interested in pursuing an academic job that involves some component of resident/student education, clinical time and EMS medical direction/prehospital research.

I think there is some notion that academic jobs are not that hard to find for fellowship trained people given the pay cut and opportunity cost of going to fellowship. However, I am concerned that one of the elephants in the room is location. For a multitude of personal reasons I'm going to be restricted to doing fellowship in the midwest, which I'm fine with, however, afterwards, my wife has a strong desire to move to the coast to be closer to family. My understanding is that these academic jobs in highly desirably locations i.e. Boston, NY, LA, SF, Seattle, Portland, are very hard to come by, especially if you didn't do residency training/fellowship in that area. They are also highly inbred just from looking at the faculty lists on the websites.

In addition beefing up my academic resume, being a chief resident, research/teaching and fellowship, what else can one do to increase their chances of landing an academic job in one of these "desirable" locations?

Getting connected to people in the area/at the institutions is a plus. Next time you attend a national conference - seek some folks out, introduce yourself and ask an intelligent question. Also, I know you're stuck in the midwest for fellowship, but still applying for fellowship in the area would put you on their radar and give you a chance to make a good impression during the interviews.

 

[deleted547339]

PGY-3 here, going to do an EMS fellowship.

I am interested in pursuing an academic job that involves some component of resident/student education, clinical time and EMS medical direction/prehospital research.

I think there is some notion that academic jobs are not that hard to find for fellowship trained people given the pay cut and opportunity cost of going to fellowship. However, I am concerned that one of the elephants in the room is location. For a multitude of personal reasons I'm going to be restricted to doing fellowship in the midwest, which I'm fine with, however, afterwards, my wife has a strong desire to move to the coast to be closer to family. My understanding is that these academic jobs in highly desirably locations i.e. Boston, NY, LA, SF, Seattle, Portland, are very hard to come by, especially if you didn't do residency training/fellowship in that area. They are also highly inbred just from looking at the faculty lists on the websites.

In addition beefing up my academic resume, being a chief resident, research/teaching and fellowship, what else can one do to increase their chances of landing an academic job in one of these "desirable" locations?

Depending on how committed you are to EMS, it might be worth finding out what some of these programs need. If you want to go to Boston, figure out which friends of friends you have there and see where they’re trying to do to beef up there department. Maybe they have a glut of EMS folks, but what they really need is someone with more critical care experience. Or maybe you find out they are really pushing their research development and you can do your best to publish a bunch in fellowship.
Also, you really have a benefit of doing fellowship in a different locations. That’s what I did. Your network is immediately doubled and, assuming your fellowship program isn’t horribly inbred, you can try to scope out which program has people from programs where you’re interested (e.g. look through the faculty bios and see if a place has faculty from usc/lac, NYU, haemr, etc). You then have people who have ties to those areas who have a vested interest in seeing you get a good job.

Good luck.

 

[miacomet]

You will have a very rough time if you want an EMS-related job in NYC. FDNY churns out one or two fellows a year and I think they only hire their own. The other EMS systems in NYC also prefer FDNY grads. I think the other places you mentioned also prefer local folks from their own highly regarded EMS programs.

I don't know if you have started fellowship yet, or if you have applied, but I would strongly consider working as an attending for a year or two and then applying to fellowships in your desired region(s). EMS is tough, and tougher in the places you mentioned. I see TNR's point about doubling your network, but at least do it in a place you might consider thus increasing your network in an area you want to live.

Academic jobs in NYC are not competitive. But a good academic job there is hard to come by, or perhaps nonexistent. They are certainly scarce in Portland. Can't speak for the others.

 

[TheComebacKid]

You will have a very rough time if you want an EMS-related job in NYC. FDNY churns out one or two fellows a year and I think they only hire their own. The other EMS systems in NYC also prefer FDNY grads. I think the other places you mentioned also prefer local folks from their own highly regarded EMS programs.

I don't know if you have started fellowship yet, or if you have applied, but I would strongly consider working as an attending for a year or two and then applying to fellowships in your desired region(s). EMS is tough, and tougher in the places you mentioned. I see TNR's point about doubling your network, but at least do it in a place you might consider thus increasing your network in an area you want to live.

Academic jobs in NYC are not competitive. But a good academic job there is hard to come by, or perhaps nonexistent. They are certainly scarce in Portland. Can't speak for the others.

All fair points.

I have not started fellowship yet but will be applying next year (I go to a 4 year program). What I will say is that I don't expect to graduate from EMS fellowship and become a medical director of LAFD, FDNY or Medic One in Seattle . I am perfectly OK doing medical direction for a smaller agency, or get an assistant medical director position. My home program has a fairly robust EMS fellowship, but most graduates start small, and like all things in academics, progress to bigger things with experience and new contacts.

No matter where along the spectrum of medicine you are in, from pre-med, to residency, to attending jobs, the competition is always fierce and it just adds to the stress in my life. I wish, for once, it felt like I held a few cards and had some control and/or choice in the matter. But alas, it seems I will be at the mercy of the medicine gods yet again.

Thanks to the few of you who have posted already.

 

[southerndoc]

Would not recommend taking a year off to work. Probably will turn into never going back to do the fellowship. I speak from experience here.

Academic jobs can be harder than you think. We have several people trying to get core faculty positions but we don't have them available.

 

[miacomet]

All fair points.

I have not started fellowship yet but will be applying next year (I go to a 4 year program). What I will say is that I don't expect to graduate from EMS fellowship and become a medical director of LAFD, FDNY or Medic One in Seattle . I am perfectly OK doing medical direction for a smaller agency, or get an assistant medical director position. My home program has a fairly robust EMS fellowship, but most graduates start small, and like all things in academics, progress to bigger things with experience and new contacts.

No matter where along the spectrum of medicine you are in, from pre-med, to residency, to attending jobs, the competition is always fierce and it just adds to the stress in my life. I wish, for once, it felt like I held a few cards and had some control and/or choice in the matter. But alas, it seems I will be at the mercy of the medicine gods yet again.

Thanks to the few of you who have posted already.

Are there smaller agencies in the cities you mentioned? I would look into that. NYC, for example, has multiple EMS systems, the largest being FDNY with Mount Sinai, NYP-Cornell, Northwell, and a few others running their own substantial systems. ALL of these jobs are hard to get, and they are pretty much all FDNY grads as far as I know, and assistant directorships are just as hard to get. Most of the cities you mentioned have their own EMS fellowships- why would they pick someone from elsewhere?

It's one year. Make it worth it.

 

[Tenk]

Landing an EMS medical director job in a big city without a decade+ of experience and tons of local connections is probably impossible.

 

[miacomet]

Landing an EMS medical director job in a big city without a decade+ of experience and tons of local connections is probably impossible.

Agreed. These jobs are hard to get. Assistant director is a bit easier if you happen to come from an affiliated fellowship.

 

[tonem]

Check out webpages like: NAEMSP ***, ACEP, SAEM, AMA etc, they all have job postings for academic positions.

Commercial sites like doccafe, indeed, and glassdoor all have physician positions posted, as well. Search for "Academic Emergency Physician". You will be surprised how many openings there actually are. From there apply broadly, take whatever position you can for a few years, make a name for yourself, then apply at your dream location when it opens up. In general, more desirable locations would much rather hire someone with a few years experience and an established track record than someone right out of fellowship.

***NAEMSP = National Association of EMS Physicians