Perrotfish

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So I requested, and was approved for, separation at the end of my obligation on 01July. However the orders were written to specify that I separate during the month of July, not 01JUL. Apparently this is standard practice, everyone else got the same orders, and quite a few people end up opting to separate towards the end of the month rather than the beginning if they were late on their job search.

My question: can they force me to work through the end of the month of July if they need the manpower? They've already made it clear that we're not getting much if any terminal leave, but can they add an extra month on as well? Does anyone know an instruction governing this situation?
 

HighPriest

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First off, congratulations.

Secondly, while they can't release you before your REFRAD date, they can make you stay because you're an officer - at least until you get orders. That's why you have to request orders to separate. Exactly how likely that is probably depends far more upon your command. It would be a $#!tty thing to do to you. They're more likely to deny terminal leave than they are to make you stay beyond your REFRAD. I don't know how it works in the Navy. I assume similar at least to the Army in that you'll go through a whole process where you write a request for separation and this has to be signed off by your command. If they felt that they needed to keep you, they can say no.

Sorry I don't have the actual regulations. Making you do something like this would have been pretty rare in the Army a couple of years ago, and if the Army isn't doing it I'd be surprised if the Navy does.
 

Perrotfish

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First off, congratulations.

Secondly, while they can't release you before your REFRAD date, they can make you stay because you're an officer - at least until you get orders. That's why you have to request orders to separate. Exactly how likely that is probably depends far more upon your command. It would be a $#!tty thing to do to you. They're more likely to deny terminal leave than they are to make you stay beyond your REFRAD. I don't know how it works in the Navy. I assume similar at least to the Army in that you'll go through a whole process where you write a request for separation and this has to be signed off by your command. If they felt that they needed to keep you, they can say no.

Sorry I don't have the actual regulations. Making you do something like this would have been pretty rare in the Army a couple of years ago, and if the Army isn't doing it I'd be surprised if the Navy does.
So I've already had my request signed off by my command, I submitted it through NSIPS, and I received approval to separate (though I don't think those are the actual orders, per se). The issue is that in the Navy they don't give you a separation DATE, they give you a separation MONTH which is July, which means I could theoretically stay through the end of July. I'm wondering if the command could actually make me do that if I didn't want to.

I'm just trying to plan for interviews. I have been telling people that I was available on 01JUL, now it looks like I might have been lying to them.
 

Gastrapathy

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This is a Navy specific scenario. It comes up on the forum every time someone separates. PERS designates a month of separation and it is up to the local command to determine the day. There are commands that let retirees leave on the first and separations only on the last day of the month. You can find several threads about the Navy "stealing" an extra month out of you. I was able to separate on the first of a month but it required some minor shenanigans to make it happen. Figure out who your approving authority is for separation date and find out if they play nice.
 
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absolutdokta

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...I assume similar at least to the Army in that you'll go through a whole process where you write a request for separation and this has to be signed off by your command. If they felt that they needed to keep you, they can say no.
I will freely admit I know little to nothing about the getting out process (...yet). However, with still a couple (and handful of month) years to go I’m already starting to have nightmares about being stuck somewhere with my paperwork being denied and the endless black hole sucking me in. So, for how long can they just say no to your requests for separation after you’ve fulfilled your initial contract??
 

HighPriest

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I will freely admit I know little to nothing about the getting out process (...yet). However, with still a couple (and handful of month) years to go I’m already starting to have nightmares about being stuck somewhere with my paperwork being denied and the endless black hole sucking me in. So, for how long can they just say no to your requests for separation after you’ve fulfilled your initial contract??
Great question. How long have you got?

FWIW, I don’t hear about that happening too often.
 

61November

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2.5 years to go!
PM me for the process when you get closer. In the army if you are an operational asset the whole thing is pretty seamless. You need to know the difference between REFRAD and UQR (unqualified resignation). Most HPSP 4 yr GMO/FS types are UQR, not REFRAD.

Those assigned to clinics with depraved, obese sleep apneic nurse commander/cat-ladies will have a much stickier time.

It's about 8-9 memos that need to be signed off by troop commander, squadron commander, Brigade Commander....plus counseling memos, S1 memo, some other stuff. I have all these memos saved as Word docs. But you can get all your ducks in a row in about 10-14 days if you are MOTIVATED.

One of my cherished memories of this process is getting my SCO's signature in the morning and then just wandering down to BDE that afternoon, sitting outside the BDE CO's office and accosting him for his signature as he was going to the john. We knew each other vaguely from a previous deployment...otherwise don't try this at home.

My S1 and SCO were shocked and amazed- they said it was going to be 3 wks to get on his schedule. A buddy who didn't know him tried a similar maneuver and got booted from the BDE HQ by the XO after a stern lecture about protocol.

Good times, good luck to you fire up the donut of misery.

PS: It goes without saying, but YOU write the memos and they sign.
 

61November

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Adding to the above: Line commanders are much more likely to approve terminal leave. Remember, you are not really viewed as a clinical asset, but rather "the Doc" an enigmatic Z-pack and medrol dose pack slinging shaman much beloved by the unit who has dirt on everyone. Non-MC officers, enlisted guys, retiring CSM's and Warrants get huge chunks of terminal leave approved as a matter of course- 180 days was the highest I saw- and naturally you get lumped in with this group.

I got quite a paid vacation on the back end getting out.
 
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absolutdokta

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Adding to the above: Line commanders are much more likely to approve terminal leave. Remember, you are not really viewed as a clinical asset, but rather "the Doc" an enigmatic Z-pack and medrol dose pack slinging shaman much beloved by the unit who has dirt on everyone. Non-MC officers, enlisted guys, retiring CSM's and Warrants get huge chunks of terminal leave approved as a matter of course- 180 days was the highest I saw- and naturally you get lumped in with this group.

I got quite a paid vacation on the back end getting out.
Fantastic info, thanks! My current battalion commander is amazing, though he’ll be changing out in May. While I’m sure my situation isn’t unique perhaps I could PM you a few questions to get some more info on stuff I’ve been wondering about?
 

61November

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Fantastic info, thanks! My current battalion commander is amazing, though he’ll be changing out in May. While I’m sure my situation isn’t unique perhaps I could PM you a few questions to get some more info on stuff I’ve been wondering about?
Sure, send it.

When you meet the new BN CO mention in passing that you already have great plans to become a civilian space shuttle doorgunner so the seed of your departure is planted early and he's not caught unawares. He'll be curious about your future and with Line types honesty is the best policy.

Also, bring kneepads
 
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