Least Favorite Year of Medical School?

[CyberKnife19]

M3 year was miserable, I hated all but 2 months of it. The rest of the time, i was pretending to be enthusiastic about stuff I really didn't want to be.

It's kinda like intern year, except now, I don't really give a crap, since I won't be doing this for the rest of my life... sure, I do a good job at work, but it doesn't mean I have to pretend to like it.

M1 year was fine, it was kind of rough getting used to studying again.

M2 year was great because I liked the material, and I had a life. Even studying for Step 1 with all my friends was semi-enjoyable -- we made it fun.

M4 had some good times, but it was so busy with interviews that I barely had time to relax until April when I had vacation that didn't require interviewing.

Ashers, I could not agree more.

As an MS1 and MS2 I had an excellent quality of life. I would typically study from 8-12, workout/lunch from 12-1:30 and study from 1:30-5:00 or so...phenomenal.

Compare that to a typical day in the life of a 3rd year medical student (at least one like yours truly that knew he wanted to go into an extremely competitive field and so did his best to get Honors). Depending on the rotation, up at 4:00 a.m. to study for a couple of hours before going to the hospital. Arrive at the hospital between 6 and 7 a.m. and pre-round and write notes on 3-4 patients. Stay at the hospital until God knows when and try to act enthusiastic about subject matter that you couldn't care less about (yeah...talking to you OB/GYN). Always be "on your game" b/c you are constantly being evaluated by attendings as well as senior residents in some cases...brutal.

I agree that it's nice to get out of the library and actually put what you are learning to practice in the hospital setting, but the stress level is exponentially higher as an MS3. Furthermore, the fact that grades as an MS3 actually matter (whereas grades as an MS1/2 count for very little) multiplies the stress even greater.

In my opinion: MS4 >>>> MS 2 > MS1 > MS3

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[PathMD2010]

I'm always surprised to hear people on SDN act as if it's common knowledge that 3rd year sucks the worst. Every M3 I ever talk to at my school says that while they're more tired they are having way more fun than pre-clinical years.

They lie. Every class says it gets better. This is a pipe dream/ or a carrot.

Though, as noted by other posters, people have varying opinions of which years were better. Some even hated 4th year. Some actually DO prefer 3rd year - and the linear relationship of the pole was also noted before.

Here's how I see the break down :
M1 = initiation to trying to accumulate VAST amounts of info in a short period of time.

M2 = Past initiation, but have the boards ahead.

M3 = Past the "test" = boards . Ready for second initiation. We know you can funciton/ learn. Now learn to apply it in complex social situations! You also learn the answer to the questions: how long can I stand in exactly the same position? Can my facial expressions lie well (feigning interest)? But also, "how do I do with pts?"

M4 = fisnish boards and find a job. And the boards are easier. But everything is expensive.

Personally, my order was M2>M4>M1>>M3. During M2, I knew how to study efficiently, had time, and could control things with time management. M4 was awesome, but I went broke. M1 sucked but not nearly as bad as M3. Mostly due to OBGYN (estrogen overload) and gunners. I liked medicine, tolerated surgery, peds, fam med, and psych okay. Also, I don't like waking up at 4am.

 

[MojoRisin]

I'm really surprised by the results of the poll. I wonder if a lot of people voted who haven't yet experienced all 4 years? From feedback I've gotten, I always assumed 3rd year would be THE worst by far followed by 1st year at a distant second.

I know exactly two people who thought third year was the worst. Surprisingly, they are en route to becoming a pathologist and a radiologist. The radiologist has already went as far as to say he will NOT do interventional.

If you hate patient care, 3rd year could be miserable. For most, it is completely different than 1st and 2nd year. 1st year is just getting used to memorizing an insane amount of information in a very limited time, I felt like I was trying to get a drink from a fire hydrant all year. 2nd year Step 1 is looming over the whole year and after Christmas basically encompasses your life.

In 3rd year you come to work and take a shelf every 4-12 weeks. I am not the strongest test taker here and from my personal experience shelf tests were much more 'fair' than our M1 and M2 exams. I was never even close to failing a shelf exam and I am confident I studied <90% of test takers

And as for 4th year, it's expensive to travel. One of our chiefs told me to take time off during all interview season if i could and enjoy the cities as most likely I wont be back to most of these places in the next half-decade or so. I did and it was a blast. I spent a little more $$$, but had a great interview experience. Also, the only classes I took were those that will directly help me next year (and forensic pathology-when the hell can i do something like that again??)

Thus 4th year>>>>>>>>>>3rd year>>>2nd year>>>>>>>>>>1st year

 

[unsung]

First of all, I've enjoyed Medical School, except for the stress of Step 1, which has kind of ruined the last half of 2nd year for me.

So, I pose the question, which was your least favorite year of Medical School? Or if you don't know how to answer that because you haven't been through all 4 years, which year do you think will be your least favorite?

I was going to do the poll and ask what year was your favorite, but I thought 4th year would just get all the votes.

I've only been through first year, so I'm really not qualified (technically) to answer this question. BUT I predict it will my least fav year.

Anatomy was the worst ***** I've ever endured. I predicted every class after that will be better. And by and large, every class has gotten "easier". Sort of. I liked classes the most that didn't require certain background knowledge that immediately gave certain ppl a leg up (i.e. biochem for biochem majors, etc.). In those classes, I was always like wtf how do ppl know this??

And as school progressed, we got more & more classes that truly offered material that was "new" to most everyone. (Ex: histology- not like micro or something that a lot of bio majors took already.) So I found myself doing relatively well.

I'm not exactly looking forward to second year. Though I do think it will be easier. Some ppl warn that it's harder, but I think it will be easier for me, because everyone will start off MSII w/ the same background knowledge in place. That makes a huge difference. Sort of excited for boards studying!

One thing I hate about MSI/II is how unpredictable the courses are. Some classes will follow pretty much the content of review books pretty closely (actually very few classes do this ha!). Most classes just spew so much content at you, you really have no idea what kind of trivial detail they'll expect you to know on the test. Sometimes, questions are asked that we basically have no way of actually answering because the material wasn't actually covered in lecture! I guess some people just had the background knowledge stored in their brain somewhere to answer the Q. SO FRUSTRATING.

From what I can tell, Step 1 questions don't pull that crap on you, and if you can master First Aid/review books, you will do well. I can't wait to study for a test where I actually have some handle over the range of material that will be on the test!

Third year = actual patient contact = goodness. So yeah. I pretty much know everything will get better from here on out. It'd better. If all 4 years of med school were like this, I would tear my hair out. lol

 

[BrianUM]

4th year here

worse parts of med school for me (anatomy, step 1 studying, 3rd yr shelf exams)

3rd yr is fun but having to take and pass shelf exams every few weeks is very stressful IMO

id say, from best to worst

2nd >3rd> 1st

i hear great things about 4th yr...well see

 

[Random Anesthesiologist]

I suspect that your SO and friends have ample opportunity to listen to you bitch about how hard your life is.

Ample opportunity, yes, because they are supportive. Do I take advantage of that opportunity? Not very much because I'm able to vent most frustrations elsewhere.

I don't think it's fair to complain to them how "hard" my life is because it's pretty subjective. However, other SDNers can understand the situation at hand because they've been there.

 

[Dexmed]

A vote from me would be worthless since I've only completed one year. M1 was tough, tedious, boring at times, and annoying.

 

[dancingDO14]

damnit chiz, i wiped my computer screen cause i thought your avatar was a real bug...

hahhahahhaaha

 

[lipomas]

I was not trying to make the point that being a third year med student with a wife and children is a piece of cake. Obviously not, and, yes, it is easier being a single male med student in third year than you, but you chose your life, so live it, and quit complaining, nobody forced you to go to med school. It was your own decision. So quit bitching. When you make decisions about your life, it is hard to feel sympathy, when you start complaining about the decisions that you, and presumably, your wife, made together.

Hey man, I wasn't actually married in med school, so there. And I wasn't really bitching that much, other than the fact that I hated fourth year and think it is a waste of time. I do bitch about people who whine about the first two years though, it's like an extended college time except more studying. I thought it was great. I also find it odd that the people who bitch the most about it are the ones who don't even go to class, and cram their studying into 48 hour cramfests.

Now, I did think third year was without a doubt the hardest of my life. And I was single and unattached at the time. I really do not understand people who think 2nd year is "harder" than 3rd year, but to each his/her own. Some of it might come from how your med school is organized and what you want to go into. Unfortunately when I went to med school work hours regulations had not taken effect yet, so I had still had to do 36 hour shifts. That makes a difference. If I didn't have to do that so much it would have been less difficult.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I do bitch about people who whine about the first two years though, it's like an extended college time except more studying.

Is that kind of like how pro sports are basically college sports but faster, tougher, more skilled, etc.?

 

[RoyBasch]

I'm really shocked that first year has the most votes! I just finished first year and I thought it was awesome! I'm really more afraid of what's to come (studying for boards next year and 100 hour weeks 3rd year).

 

[da8s0859q]

I'm really shocked that first year has the most votes! I just finished first year and I thought it was awesome! I'm really more afraid of what's to come (studying for boards next year and 100 hour weeks 3rd year).

First time I have heard that...

 

[phospho]

I'm really shocked that first year has the most votes! I just finished first year and I thought it was awesome! I'm really more afraid of what's to come (studying for boards next year and 100 hour weeks 3rd year).

seriously dude?

If you're serious, then I guess some people can manage their time better, study more efficiently, can juggle more than just a few things at once, or are simply smarter.

I thought first year was the toughest year of my life (emotionally, mentally, etc...) Whether it was getting used to the pace of lectures, finding the right study methods, or having to know sooooooooooooo much information in such little time - it was a year that will never be forgotten.

I'm sure it doesn't get any better, and I'm sure that other people might not have hated first year as much as I have. But at the same time, I find it very hard to believe that anyone would think that first year was awesome.

I still don't know how the hell I managed to get through it... in the first 3 days after we finished, I would wake up every morning in a panic thinking I overslept for something important. Now I'm getting back to normal, though I don't know if I can ever reach that kind of normal I once was - the person that I was before I started this rollercoaster.

It just makes me wonder if other professional students go through this crap, like pharmacy, dental optometry, vet, or law students. I don't want to think that it's only the medical students that get messed with like this.

 

[da8s0859q]

It just makes me wonder if other professional students go through this crap, like pharmacy, dental optometry, vet, or law students. I don't want to think that it's only the medical students that get messed with like this.

I was wondering that myself the other day. I've got a handful of friends in one or another of those, but they're not terribly close friends -- to the point where they'd call me up and tell me how they hate their lives.

We have a tendency to think we get the "worst" of doctoral/professional level education, and I wouldn't say that PharmD / DDS/DMD / JD students are on a little cakewalk, but I can't help but wonder if maybe it's true. Law2Doc, that one PharmD/MD guy (sorry man, I don't remember your handle offhand!), or anyone else have a firsthand opinion?

 

[MiniMoo]

Law2Doc, that one PharmD/MD guy (sorry man, I don't remember your handle offhand!), or anyone else have a firsthand opinion?

Well... I'm a Pharm.D. girl... and while I can't directly compare Pharm.D. to MD because I haven't started med school yet, I can say that pharmacy school as a whole wasn't bad. There was an adjustment period in the beginning for sure, but after you get into the swing of things, it felt pretty manageable. Clinical clerkships, on the other hand, seemed to vary widely depending on the site and specific rotation. For example, some students chose Medicine at Cedars Sinai and were there for 14+ hour shifts and stayed on call with residents. Others had medicine rotations that were a 40-hour work week, no call. I'm pretty much preparing for the absolute worst when I start med school in August, although from feedback I've gotten from current students, my school seems to be a lot more relaxed than others. More than one MS1 has said it "isn't bad -- a lot better than I thought it would be".

 

[RySerr21]

seriously dude?

If you're serious, then I guess some people can manage their time better, study more efficiently, can juggle more than just a few things at once, or are simply smarter.

I thought first year was the toughest year of my life (emotionally, mentally, etc...) Whether it was getting used to the pace of lectures, finding the right study methods, or having to know sooooooooooooo much information in such little time - it was a year that will never be forgotten.

I'm sure it doesn't get any better, and I'm sure that other people might not have hated first year as much as I have. But at the same time, I find it very hard to believe that anyone would think that first year was awesome.

I still don't know how the hell I managed to get through it... in the first 3 days after we finished, I would wake up every morning in a panic thinking I overslept for something important. Now I'm getting back to normal, though I don't know if I can ever reach that kind of normal I once was - the person that I was before I started this rollercoaster.

It just makes me wonder if other professional students go through this crap, like pharmacy, dental optometry, vet, or law students. I don't want to think that it's only the medical students that get messed with like this.

i wouldn't say it has been 'aweseome' but i would say that it definitely has been a fun year - a very enjoyable experience. Definitely a lot of hard work, but also very manageable.

I dont know much about any of the other health related professions, but Id much rather be in med school than law school, that **** is no joke. Its a totally different ballgame, totally different atmosphere, with an equivalent amount of work. Unlike med school, their grades and rankings actually matter.....a lot. You could imagine what that might do to students. Schools do stuff like give scholarships to 2/3 of their student body but then make the stipulation that you need to be in the top 1/3 of the class to keep the scholarship. The math doesnt add up - there's crazy competition to be the best. If you arent, you are out. I wouldnt be able to handle that man, so Im grateful for the collaborative environment that ive experienced with med school (and i dont think its just my school, i think its just the nature of most med schools in general). Its just a totally different mentality and approach when you know that your ass is on the line and you have to be better than the person sitting next to you. With med school, it really doesnt matter how you score in relation to the class. You can study hard for yourself and put in a solid effort and be comfortable with the knowledge that you stuided hard and learned a good amount of material with out worrying how you compare to the people in your class. Thats truly a blessing. My sis starts law school next year - i'm not envious at all.

 

[SirGecko]

We have a tendency to think we get the "worst" of doctoral/professional level education, and I wouldn't say that PharmD / DDS/DMD / JD students are on a little cakewalk, but I can't help but wonder if maybe it's true. Law2Doc, that one PharmD/MD guy (sorry man, I don't remember your handle offhand!), or anyone else have a firsthand opinion?

That is probably hubris on our part I think. (but then again who doesn't like to believe they have it harder than anyone else?) I have a twin brother who just finished his first year of law school and while he said he loved it it does sound tough as hell. I got to say I am glad I'm not in law school.

 

[Tiki]

I thought first year was the worst by far. I enjoyed third year, despite the fact that I'm doing a pathology residency.

I think we all have a tendency to over-dramatize things (and I am most definitely including myself here) I remember hearing people say, "step 1 is the worst thing EVAH!" or "third year is super HORRIBLE!" or "Wait till you start residency, you'll wanna DIE!" or "Specialty boards were written by SATAN!" but in the end, the majority of us will all get through them, with very few psychological scars. But hey, complaining is very therapeutic.

 

[RoyBasch]

seriously dude?

If you're serious, then I guess some people can manage their time better, study more efficiently, can juggle more than just a few things at once, or are simply smarter.

I thought first year was the toughest year of my life (emotionally, mentally, etc...) Whether it was getting used to the pace of lectures, finding the right study methods, or having to know sooooooooooooo much information in such little time - it was a year that will never be forgotten.

I'm sure it doesn't get any better, and I'm sure that other people might not have hated first year as much as I have. But at the same time, I find it very hard to believe that anyone would think that first year was awesome.

I still don't know how the hell I managed to get through it... in the first 3 days after we finished, I would wake up every morning in a panic thinking I overslept for something important. Now I'm getting back to normal, though I don't know if I can ever reach that kind of normal I once was - the person that I was before I started this rollercoaster.

It just makes me wonder if other professional students go through this crap, like pharmacy, dental optometry, vet, or law students. I don't want to think that it's only the medical students that get messed with like this.

Srsly...
Yeah I really enjoyed first year, it felt like a very tough semester of college, but some of the material was really cool. Gross Anatomy was one of the most fascinating experiences of my life and I'll never forget it. There IS a lot of work no doubt, but for the most part I felt very in control of my schedule. If I wanted to I could sleep in and watch lectures online later, I could take a few days off and take a small roadtrip and then just catch up later. What scares me is 3rd year where there is no control of the schedule and you MUST report at a specific time.

I don't consider myself to be much more intelligent or better at managing my time compared to other medical students. But first year I still felt i had plenty of time to be social and I met a lot of great people in my class. Also I moved to a new city to start medical school so it was a cool new experience to live in a new place and try new things. Some of my hobbies I had to curb a little bit but stuff that was important to me like reading and lifting weights i felt never took a big hit except two weeks or so out from tests.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Gross Anatomy was one of the most fascinating experiences of my life and I'll never forget it.

You, sir, are effing insane.

 

[CyberKnife19]

i wouldn't say it has been 'aweseome' but i would say that it definitely has been a fun year - a very enjoyable experience. Definitely a lot of hard work, but also very manageable.

I dont know much about any of the other health related professions, but Id much rather be in med school than law school, that **** is no joke. Its a totally different ballgame, totally different atmosphere, with an equivalent amount of work. Unlike med school, their grades and rankings actually matter.....a lot. You could imagine what that might do to students. Schools do stuff like give scholarships to 2/3 of their student body but then make the stipulation that you need to be in the top 1/3 of the class to keep the scholarship. The math doesnt add up - there's crazy competition to be the best. If you arent, you are out. I wouldnt be able to handle that man, so Im grateful for the collaborative environment that ive experienced with med school (and i dont think its just my school, i think its just the nature of most med schools in general). Its just a totally different mentality and approach when you know that your ass is on the line and you have to be better than the person sitting next to you. With med school, it really doesnt matter how you score in relation to the class. You can study hard for yourself and put in a solid effort and be comfortable with the knowledge that you stuided hard and learned a good amount of material with out worrying how you compare to the people in your class. Thats truly a blessing. My sis starts law school next year - i'm not envious at all.

If you want to go in to a very competitive field (Derm, RadOnc, Plastics, ENT) grades, and therefore class rank, DO MATTER. If you know that you want to go in to a field that is not competitive, then by all means, don't worry/stress about your grades or class rank. Otherwise, bust your a** and give your absolute best effort to see how well you can do. Doing so for four years can set you up in your field of choice for the next fourty years.

 

[da8s0859q]

Yeah I really enjoyed first year, it felt like a very tough semester of college

Really? Never heard anyone make such a comparison.

 

[RySerr21]

If you want to go in to a very competitive field (Derm, RadOnc, Plastics, ENT) grades, and therefore class rank, DO MATTER. If you know that you want to go in to a field that is not competitive, then by all means, don't worry/stress about your grades or class rank. Otherwise, bust your a** and give your absolute best effort to see how well you can do. Doing so for four years can set you up in your field of choice for the next fourty years.

right, i know that. But for pretty much everyone entering the medical profession (including myself), they dont.

 

[Antibodies]

I won't want to do pharm school. Drugs and their mechanisms 24/7, that would be killer. Plus, 3 years of classroom. Every time I see a pharm student I am so thankful that I am not in that program (I considered doing pharm back in HS).

 

[coldweatherblue]

really surprised to see first-year so popular, since for me first-year was actually more chill than an average year of college, since i worked nearly full-time during college. I had a great time MS1... MS2 on the other hand was an awful awful year.

 

[da8s0859q]

MS2 on the other hand was an awful awful year.

Uh oh.

 

[gujuDoc]

At my old school a lot of now residents or 4th years tell me that 2nd year was probably one of their most brutal because of step 1 and the fact that material was tougher then first year for them.

I also heard several say that they enjoyed 3rd year far better then year 1 and 2 because it was actually doing stuff and getting to be in wards.

that has been told to me by several people I know. It seemed to be the overall consensus that 2nd year was more clinically relevant then first year but more brutal then 1st year.

 

[ObamaCare]

i haven't done 4th year yet, but i can assume it won't be my least favorite year.

2nd year > 1st year >>>>>>> 3rd year.

I assume 4th year is between 1st and 3rd year.

 

[ChimpanzeeMinky]

It's interesting to hear people say that step 1 studying is so much worse than anything first year, because I am having the exact opposite experience, and I am in the middle of step 1 preparation. Reading hundreds of pages of review material is not so much fun, but having it all finally come together in a way that eluded me for the first two years is great. Not to mention the feeling that all this work really does mean something tangible. Of course, I hated anatomy, so it wouldn't be that hard to improve on it.

Since I've only finished second year, I don't know how I'm going to like third year. The subjectivity of evaluation and having to deal with certain other classmates will be less than ideal, but I have a feeling that that tangible sense will make up for it.

First year was far worse than second year. I suspect it's all uphill from here.

 

[MilkmanAl]

It's interesting to hear people say that step 1 studying is so much worse than anything first year, because I am having the exact opposite experience, and I am in the middle of step 1 preparation. Reading hundreds of pages of review material is not so much fun, but having it all finally come together in a way that eluded me for the first two years is great. Not to mention the feeling that all this work really does mean something tangible. Of course, I hated anatomy, so it wouldn't be that hard to improve on it.

Step 1 studying hasn't really been that bad. Of course, I can see how this would be a complete nightmare if you tend to totally freak out under pressure like most med students do.

 

[mTOR]

I have a strong feeling I'm going to hate 3rd year most. I hate conflicting objectives, ass-kissery, and most of all call.

THIS.


Is pretty much the reason 3rd year was BY FAR the most NAUSEATINGLY FAKE, MOST DISGUSTINGLY PAINFUL, and just FLAT OUT MOST MISERABLE part of my training so far! I hated EVERY MINUTE of it. It drained the living CRAP out of me. Compromised EVERYTHING that I stood for. Well, probably only with exception of my Internal Medicine months.


The unfortunate thing for me is although I would try to tell myself "Ok mTOR time to crank up the fakeness and pretend this is fun, you're being watched", half of the time I TRULY could NOT bring myself to be feign enthusiasm or any interest AT ALL. Which meant that, despite performing "exemplary" on the shelf exams (as my evals would call it), God knows how many times the phrases "did not observe the hierarchy", "frequently disappeared", "not especially hardworking", "too laid back", or other swipes at my "professionalism" showed up on my end of rotation evaluations

Whatever.


Wildebeest nipples >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3rd year.

 

[TheLesPaul]

I'm really shocked that first year has the most votes! I just finished first year and I thought it was awesome! I'm really more afraid of what's to come (studying for boards next year and 100 hour weeks 3rd year).

I really liked MS1/MS2. I mean, I came in w/ no illusions about not having to work hard; I still had time to work out, play ball, hang out w/ friends, go out one night a week, etc -- it wasn't so bad. And the material is more interesting b/c it's more detailed, you know?

And sure, the week before the exam is rough, but so is life. I felt that if I just kept my head up, it wasn't so hard to enjoy med school.

 

[SalseraDoctora]

First year far and away was the biggest misery. I am in my 3rd year now, and this has been by far the best. Second year was easier but boring. Third year is more work than second year (yet still less than first). But third year is so fun because you actually get to practice being a doctor. The first rotation third year is tied with the first year of med school for biggest misery, just because you truly have zero idea what you are doing, and you do everything terribly.

I wonder whether you are allowed to bring your significant other with you to the pre-interview dinners?

 

[smq123]

I wonder whether you are allowed to bring your significant other with you to the pre-interview dinners?

You usually are allowed to; some programs even invite you to. Whether or not this is a safe idea depends on many factors, including which specialty, how competitive it is, how competitive you are, whether or not your SO is of the same gender that you are, etc.

 

[Trismegistus4]

I know exactly two people who thought third year was the worst. Surprisingly, they are en route to becoming a pathologist and a radiologist. The radiologist has already went as far as to say he will NOT do interventional.


If you hate patient care, 3rd year could be miserable.

The problem is that if you hate 3rd year, you're not going to do well at it, and if you don't do well in 3rd year you can't match into one of those competitive, lifestyle-friendly, high-paying specialties. How can someone who hated third year manage to get himself into radiology?

THIS.


Is pretty much the reason 3rd year was BY FAR the most NAUSEATINGLY FAKE, MOST DISGUSTINGLY PAINFUL, and just FLAT OUT MOST MISERABLE part of my training so far! I hated EVERY MINUTE of it. It drained the living CRAP out of me. Compromised EVERYTHING that I stood for. Well, probably only with exception of my Internal Medicine months.


The unfortunate thing for me is although I would try to tell myself "Ok mTOR time to crank up the fakeness and pretend this is fun, you're being watched", half of the time I TRULY could NOT bring myself to be feign enthusiasm or any interest AT ALL. Which meant that, despite performing "exemplary" on the shelf exams (as my evals would call it), God knows how many times the phrases "did not observe the hierarchy", "frequently disappeared", "not especially hardworking", "too laid back", or other swipes at my "professionalism" showed up on my end of rotation evaluations

Whatever.


Wildebeest nipples >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3rd year.

I agree; the worst part of 3rd year is the ass-kissing and trying to act interested when you're not. In my experience this is also harder for an older non-trad. I'm more set in my ways and know more exactly what I want in life than my twentysomething classmates, and it's impossible for me to pretend to care about something I don't. (Though I'm sure some nontrad like njbmd will be along promptly to tell me it doesn't have to be that way.) This scenario has happened more times than I can count:

Resident: <hangs up phone>Hey Trismegistus4, we just got a new admission. Want to go see this guy?
Me: <Stifling urge to walk out of the hospital, down to the train tracks, jump in a moving boxcar and start a new life as a hobo> Uhh... sure.
Resident: You sound thrilled!

I'm pretty sure that, with the exception of psych and outpatient family med and peds, people have been able to tell that I obviously just didn't want to be there. Yeah, feigning interest/buttkissing sucks and if you don't like it, you will hate 3rd year.

So far, MS1 > MS2 > Getting poked in the eye with a hot iron >>>>>>>>>>>>> MS3.

Also, I can't understand why everyone says 4th year is so laid back. For one thing, at my school we are REQUIRED to do 2 AIs. But even if you're not, sure, you might have electives with relatively easy hours, but between Step 2 CK, Step 2 CS, getting letters of recommendation, writing a personal statement, and all that other ERAS stuff, and interviewing, you've still got plenty to worry about.

 

[da8s0859q]

I'm pretty sure that, with the exception of psych and outpatient family med and peds, people have been able to tell that I obviously just didn't want to be there.

Have you gotten dinged for this on evaluations?

 

[Trismegistus4]

Have you gotten dinged for this on evaluations?

Incredibly, because of the combination of several unusual circumstances, including that 1) at my school 3rd year includes 16 weeks of research and thus ends very late, 2) I failed Step I the first time and had to postpone several rotations to take a prep course and then re-take it, and 3) I did so by interrupting one of the 3 big blocks that comprise 3rd year for us, despite the fact that I am near the end of 3rd year, I haven't gotten evaluations for anything except psych and neuro yet. And yes, I did get dinged for it on neuro.

 

[ButImLETired]

I'm always surprised to hear people on SDN act as if it's common knowledge that 3rd year sucks the worst. Every M3 I ever talk to at my school says that while they're more tired they are having way more fun than pre-clinical years.

Same here. I hear something like "1st year is awful, second year is interesting but a lot of work, Step 1 studying was the most miserable few months of my life, third year is hard but fun, fourth year is expensive but relaxing".

Say what you will about sleep deprivation and doing other people's bitchwork, I'm looking forward to third year. At least I know I'll get to work with some awesome mentors, learn something useful for a change, and maybe even figure out what I want to do when I grow up. So far, post-first year, I feel like I haven't learned anything useful whatsoever, was basically permanently stressed out through anatomy, and I still have no idea what I want to go into. And I basically re-learned a ton of stuff that I semi-knew already but in more annoying detail and in way less time. Meh.

 

[ButImLETired]

To be fair, I don't look forward to ass-kissery and pretending to love OB/Gyn although I hope I can do a decent job of it- I've generally been a decent BSer. I'm definitely going to have some trouble pretending to enjoy any aspect whatsoever of surgery, but hopefully I'll be able to go "oooh!" at the right times. I don't know. Maybe it's the fact that I'm a non-trad, but I'm really over the whole book-learning 24/7 thing. I'm sick of telling sick friends and family members that actually, I know absolutely NOTHING useful right now, and really remember almost none of what I learned this year. I'd much rather be forced to be at the hospital at a certain time- at least I don't have to try and convince myself to get up early to learn something I don't care about, cause they're MAKING me show up. Not having to schedule my own day, constantly being aware of how many things I'd rather be doing than sitting in the library, is actually kind of a blessing.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I'm sick of telling sick friends and family members that actually, I know absolutely NOTHING useful right now

Mercifully, that changes during second year. You still don't really have the means to apply your knowledge to anything but a situation that basically slaps you in the face with a diagnosis, but at least it's something. Knowing about common illnesses sure does beat the **** out of knowing which genes turn on to make your head develop. Third year, here I come! No matter how bad it gets, it won't be worse than what I just did.

 

[Random Anesthesiologist]

Same here. I hear something like "1st year is awful, second year is interesting but a lot of work, Step 1 studying was the most miserable few months of my life, third year is hard but fun, fourth year is expensive but relaxing".

Say what you will about sleep deprivation and doing other people's bitchwork, I'm looking forward to third year. At least I know I'll get to work with some awesome mentors, learn something useful for a change, and maybe even figure out what I want to do when I grow up. So far, post-first year, I feel like I haven't learned anything useful whatsoever, was basically permanently stressed out through anatomy, and I still have no idea what I want to go into. And I basically re-learned a ton of stuff that I semi-knew already but in more annoying detail and in way less time. Meh.

Amen.

 

[Orthodoc40]

1st year was the worst, in EVERY CONCEIVABLE WAY.

The only people I know that said they liked 1st year, proceeded to crash 2nd year, and if they didn't crash 2nd year, they completely crashed 3rd year.
Seems like most everyone will find a year that they could have lived without, in one way or the other.

 

[unsung]

You, sir, are effing insane.

I concur.

I found nothing redeeming about memorizing the names for a ton of stuff, with zero context.

And it wasn't just the memorization. If it was straight up memorization, it would have been tolerable.

What made the experience insufferable was the fact that half the time I never SAW the structure I was supposed to see during the dissection (due to the body itself, or the dissection, or whatever). Regardless of that fact, I would still be tested on that structure (on a miraculously perfectly dissected specimen heretofore unseen) come test time.

I suspect if the course had been centered on prosections and spending more time actually seeing stuff I was supposed to be seeing (as opposed to digging through fascia), I would have enjoyed the experience more. (And learned more. lol)

Come Step 1, I suspect I will be needing to do a ton of review, for my anatomy knowledge is really quite shoddy, excepting head & neck.

 

[unsung]

Same here. I hear something like "1st year is awful, second year is interesting but a lot of work, Step 1 studying was the most miserable few months of my life, third year is hard but fun, fourth year is expensive but relaxing".

Say what you will about sleep deprivation and doing other people's bitchwork, I'm looking forward to third year. At least I know I'll get to work with some awesome mentors, learn something useful for a change, and maybe even figure out what I want to do when I grow up. So far, post-first year, I feel like I haven't learned anything useful whatsoever, was basically permanently stressed out through anatomy, and I still have no idea what I want to go into. And I basically re-learned a ton of stuff that I semi-knew already but in more annoying detail and in way less time. Meh.

Is it an SDN truism that "3rd yr sucks"? I haven't noticed.

But I really don't think 3rd year can suck worse than 1st year. It sounds like people's beef w/ 3rd year mainly regards the lengthy hours and physical demands, in addition to "people skills" type issues having to do w/ difficult supervisors.

Well. All of that can be encountered in any real world JOB. I mean, I have worked over-night shifts, and double shifts equaling 16-hr days. I REALLY doubt 3rd yr will throw me for a loop in that sense. And difficult bosses I'm totally used to.

My theory is- the only people who really complain about 3rd year as being some sort of hell probably have never worked at a real job outside of being a student.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Come Step 1, I suspect I will be needing to do a ton of review, for my anatomy knowledge is really quite shoddy, excepting head & neck.

Fortunately, you suspect incorrectly. The anatomy on Step 1 is pretty sparse and really easy, for the most part. "You damage the structure directly to the right of the descending aorta. What happens?" "You have a camera in the laryngopharynx. What can you see?" I missed the second one, by the way. Oh well.

 

[Perrotfish]

Is it an SDN truism that "3rd yr sucks"? I haven't noticed.

But I really don't think 3rd year can suck worse than 1st year. It sounds like people's beef w/ 3rd year mainly regards the lengthy hours and physical demands, in addition to "people skills" type issues having to do w/ difficult supervisors.

Well. All of that can be encountered in any real world JOB. I mean, I have worked over-night shifts, and double shifts equaling 16-hr days. I REALLY doubt 3rd yr will throw me for a loop in that sense. And difficult bosses I'm totally used to.

My theory is- the only people who really complain about 3rd year as being some sort of hell probably have never worked at a real job outside of being a student.

No, see third year is everything you hate about first and second year PLUS insane hours and difficult bosses. I mean, things like not having a day off in 6 weeks, working Q4 call, or having your performance based on blantent ass kissery and showing up your fellow students (when you have a 10 man rotation graded on a curve everyone's inner gunner comes out to play) should be more than bad enough. However in your 'spare' (sleep) time you are also expected to memorize yet another series of pointless and clinically irrelevant facts for you another must pass scantron test.

My theory is that the poll skews towards preclinical years because many people voting have not actually gone through any of 3rd year and assume nothing could be worse than what they have already done.

 

[Jolie South]

No, see third year is everything you hate about first and second year PLUS insane hours and difficult bosses. I mean, things like not having a day off in 6 weeks, working Q4 call, or having your performance based on blantent ass kissery and showing up your fellow students (when you have a 10 man rotation graded on a curve everyone's inner gunner comes out to play) should be more than bad enough. However in your 'spare' (sleep) time you are also expected to memorize yet another series of pointless and clinically irrelevant facts for you another must pass scantron test.

My theory is that the poll skews towards preclinical years because many people voting have not actually gone through any of 3rd year and assume nothing could be worse than what they have already done.

I disagree with this. I've had a fun time on rotations. Yes, it's work, but you're not working THAT much. I've never had q4 call or worked 6 weeks straight and I've done ob/gyn and surgery already. Maybe it's different from school to school, but I've never had hours that were so horrible I couldn't stand it.

Other students aren't as much of gunners as you think. At my school, we try to help each other out for the most part. Plus, evaluations are not going to make or break your grade. Everyone does pretty much the same on that component of the grade. It's the shelf that really determines what you end up with on the rotation. That is 100% in your control and studying for it isn't as awful as you'd think. I read up on my patients during the week (1-2 hours/day)and put in 2-3 hours a day on the weekend for my shelfs thus far. I've felt confident walking out of the shelf exams and departmental exams. What you're learning on the wards isn't so far off of what's on the exams either. Residents would also try to teach us things that were high yield for the shelf in our downtime.

Asskissery isn't a necessary evil. If you show up on time, look interested, and are willing to help, you'll be fine. That's been my experience thus far. I guess YMMV.

 

[da8s0859q]

... or having your performance based on blantent ass kissery and showing up your fellow students (when you have a 10 man rotation graded on a curve everyone's inner gunner comes out to play) should be more than bad enough.

I dread this. I'm just hoping that maybe it won't be THAT bad at my school/hospital... like many of us M1s/M2s hope.

 

[theRighteousDoc]

HELLO Guys,

I'm in my second year, and the simplest words to clarify my feelings is "it sucks" but last year was way more harder and much boring...!!

I'm totally surprised of those saying year 3 or 4 is the least favorite, I don't think so, cuz while we are deeply depressed from our Pathology and Pharma and Neuro, they're actually enjoying their clinical experience.. It's fun that you're carrying your Stethoscope and looks like a senior consultant ;D

So, I agree with those; 1st year then the 2nd one...

btw.. I have my final Pharma exam after 2 days...... I'm bored to death!!!

:'(

 

[Perrotfish]

I disagree with this. I've had a fun time on rotations. Yes, it's work, but you're not working THAT much. I've never had q4 call or worked 6 weeks straight and I've done ob/gyn and surgery already. Maybe it's different from school to school, but I've never had hours that were so horrible I couldn't stand it.

Other students aren't as much of gunners as you think. At my school, we try to help each other out for the most part. Plus, evaluations are not going to make or break your grade. Everyone does pretty much the same on that component of the grade. It's the shelf that really determines what you end up with on the rotation. That is 100% in your control and studying for it isn't as awful as you'd think. I read up on my patients during the week (1-2 hours/day)and put in 2-3 hours a day on the weekend for my shelfs thus far. I've felt confident walking out of the shelf exams and departmental exams. What you're learning on the wards isn't so far off of what's on the exams either. Residents would also try to teach us things that were high yield for the shelf in our downtime.

Asskissery isn't a necessary evil. If you show up on time, look interested, and are willing to help, you'll be fine. That's been my experience thus far. I guess YMMV.

My school does Q4 call for surgery, internal medicine, and and Ob/Gyn. Several weeks without a break is surprisingly common too. You get 1 day 'off' a week, but if you have class time you still need to show up on your off day, you're only excused from wards. Since you also can't schedule your day off for precall or postcall (which are deliberately scheduled for days when you don't have class) there is a 50% chance that whenever you have a day off that day will involve 4+ hours of class. Going 6 weeks without a 24 hour break is a real run of bad luck, but at a 1/64 chance it's likely to hapeen to at least 9 of my classmates (three 8 week rotations will Q4 call).

I don't know how evaluations don't make or break your grade when they're 80% of your grade, which it is on at least some rotations here. The shelf exam might break your gade but it's not going to get you honors if your attending thinks you don't deserve it.