Leave my research lab?

[WhittyPsyche]

Okay so I have been trying to work this through, but the status of the relationship with my PI is making me believe that a LOR from this experience will only suffer, plus my sanity. Brief breakdown: I am asked to complete task X within two weeks, there are specific locations for completed tasks, most things are just put in their place rather than being emailed about it. Nonetheless, I send email notifications about everything that is completed, and where to find them. On day 3-5 after the assignment, I complete the task, notify my PI of its completion and location, usually get a response "great! thanks so much, appreciate it. Then around day 16/17 days after given the assignment, past the deadline date for said task, I get an email:

"WhittyPsyche, where is assignment X, I do not see it, please have this completed by the time you come in next week, I need assignment X in order to do YZ follow ups. Please get back to me promptly."

My response is then, "Hi, assignment X is in place A, as you requested, btw assignment Y has since been completed and is in place B (Usually self-titled folders, or a place they are always put). Let me know if you still cannot find assignment X. Or if you would like it somewhere else in the future"

"Hi again, yes it is in place A, no don't move it that is the right place. This was just a simple miscommunication. Thank you"

Me: *thinking* uhh I don't know how this is a miscommunication...okay. It's always a "miscommunication", rather than I did not look in the place I specifically asked you to put it, or didn't look at all before firing off an email saying "work on this now" when it is already completed.

This has happened about 5-6 times since this semester started.

I always get things done on time though usually early, when someone leaves (3 since I've been here, 1 just gave notice) I've taken on their projects and completed them faster than that person had been taking to just begin the task. Once my work is received I cannot tell you how much gratitude is expressed by the PI, always comments that far better than expected and never needs edits.

Sorry this turned into a vent. I am applying this upcoming cycle, so I am weary about leaving, especially as the L.M. I had planned on staying through my gap year as well. I have a manuscript in submission not very high on author list, another in writing that should be done in March, 3rd author and the only writer, and another in writing that will be ready in April/May that I'm 2nd author and the writer. So obviously I want to stay, but I am getting so frustrated by the passive aggressiveness, and the stress of others leaving, leaving me wearing too many hats.

Thanks for any input!

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[rilte4]

So, you work for a scatterbrained PI, are underappreciated, and get dinged for things you did correctly? Well, that's different.


(Really though, it sounds like you already know what you need to do. You're close to applying and you're getting your name on things. Stick it out, then get outta dodge.)

 

[Doug Underhill]

PIs will misplace things, just like how experiments will fail, necessary equipment will break, vital personnel will be unavailable when needed, essential reagents will run out and be unreplaced, and well-constructed hypotheses will be refuted. Sounds like research to me.

 

[WhittyPsyche]

So, you work for a scatterbrained PI, are underappreciated, and get dinged for things you did correctly? Well, that's different.


(Really though, it sounds like you already know what you need to do. You're close to applying and you're getting your name on things. Stick it out, then get outta dodge.)

I know right, if I left and try to explain why, I don't think anyone would believe that for once the PI is a bit dysfunctional. I fear that even with my hard work the LOR won't be very emphatic. After two occurrences I usually get an email saying "can we speak about everything going on in the lab please, I need to clear up some misunderstandings", or something to that tune. We meet, and she first ask that I give her a briefing of whats going on. I go trough the current project list, everyone's tasks, and status, next steps, and things I'm still awaiting from her. Then she says oh okay sounds great, everything sounds good. I ask if she has anything to discuss, she has nothing, thats all she wanted to know and keep it up.

Recently it was "unfortunately this is an example of another miscommunication, if you have any suggestions on how we can clear this up so it doesn't happen again in the future, I would be glad to hear." And now we need to meet again this week. -_-

 

[WhittyPsyche]

PIs will misplace things, just like how experiments will fail, necessary equipment will break, vital personnel will be unavailable when needed, essential reagents will run out and be unreplaced, and well-constructed hypotheses will be refuted. Sounds like research to me.

True but when organization is emphasized, and my job, I wish it would be made use of. It's like everything I am doing is moot.

 

[narvik2016]

Honestly, welcome to the real world. This is what it's like having a job. People you expect to be organized will be disorganized. This is just life.

 

[rilte4]

Tone gets lost over the Internet sometimes...

 

[NotWayneBrady]

This just sounds like work. I've been working with people like this pretty much every day for the years I've taken off after college. My PI was also like this when I was doing research.

Just something you have to deal with, stick it out and get the extra rec letter and you'll be fine. In my case despite my issues with my PI (and his issues with me, I'm sure) he wrote probably the strongest letter I received this cycle.

 

[WhittyPsyche]

This just sounds like work. I've been working with people like this pretty much every day for the years I've taken off after college. My PI was also like this when I was doing research.

Just something you have to deal with, stick it out and get the extra rec letter and you'll be fine. In my case despite my issues with my PI (and his issues with me, I'm sure) he wrote probably the strongest letter I received this cycle.

The more responses I'm starting to realize most of us are biting our tongues in some way or another. I appreciate your experiences. I was thinking based on these experiences the letter would not be strong anyway, but perhaps these minor occurrences won't affect it that much. I can push it out.

 

[Lannister]

This doesn't sound bad at all...It sounds like the lab is actually a pretty good lab, if she's constantly praising you for how great your work is. Her being scatterbrained 5-6 times a semester would be a really ridiculous reason to leave the lab. Go look up some grad student horror stories about students who get stuck with PIs who absolutely torture them, and suck it up.

 

[Goro]

Some PIs are really, really dysfunctional. Best to talk to them in person.

Okay so I have been trying to work this through, but the status of the relationship with my PI is making me believe that a LOR from this experience will only suffer, plus my sanity. Brief breakdown: I am asked to complete task X within two weeks, there are specific locations for completed tasks, most things are just put in their place rather than being emailed about it. Nonetheless, I send email notifications about everything that is completed, and where to find them. On day 3-5 after the assignment, I complete the task, notify my PI of its completion and location, usually get a response "great! thanks so much, appreciate it. Then around day 16/17 days after given the assignment, past the deadline date for said task, I get an email:

"WhittyPsyche, where is assignment X, I do not see it, please have this completed by the time you come in next week, I need assignment X in order to do YZ follow ups. Please get back to me promptly."

My response is then, "Hi, assignment X is in place A, as you requested, btw assignment Y has since been completed and is in place B (Usually self-titled folders, or a place they are always put). Let me know if you still cannot find assignment X. Or if you would like it somewhere else in the future"

"Hi again, yes it is in place A, no don't move it that is the right place. This was just a simple miscommunication. Thank you"

Me: *thinking* uhh I don't know how this is a miscommunication...okay. It's always a "miscommunication", rather than I did not look in the place I specifically asked you to put it, or didn't look at all before firing off an email saying "work on this now" when it is already completed.

This has happened about 5-6 times since this semester started.

I always get things done on time though usually early, when someone leaves (3 since I've been here, 1 just gave notice) I've taken on their projects and completed them faster than that person had been taking to just begin the task. Once my work is received I cannot tell you how much gratitude is expressed by the PI, always comments that far better than expected and never needs edits.

Sorry this turned into a vent. I am applying this upcoming cycle, so I am weary about leaving, especially as the L.M. I had planned on staying through my gap year as well. I have a manuscript in submission not very high on author list, another in writing that should be done in March, 3rd author and the only writer, and another in writing that will be ready in April/May that I'm 2nd author and the writer. So obviously I want to stay, but I am getting so frustrated by the passive aggressiveness, and the stress of others leaving, leaving me wearing too many hats.

Thanks for any input!

 

[WhittyPsyche]

This doesn't sound bad at all...It sounds like the lab is actually a pretty good lab, if she's constantly praising you for how great your work is. Her being scatterbrained 5-6 times a semester would be a really ridiculous reason to leave the lab. Go look up some grad student horror stories about students who get stuck with PIs who absolutely torture them, and suck it up.

The attitude switching is what gets me, paint me like I don't do anything, then praise the work once you look at it, but never apologize for the approach. Now that she is like "why do we keep having miscommunications" I just want to say "they aren't miscommunications! You fire off without taking a second to check on something first, or even asking a question, you just assume it's not done even though I've never missed a deadline. "

Instead I'll say, "open to your suggestions". sigh

I might just look up those horror stories so I feel better lol

Some PIs are really, really dysfunctional. Best to talk to them in person.

I think I need to. But should I be honest about the pattern I am seeing, or just ask like open questions, like what do you think would better our relationship/ running of the lab, etc.?

 

[Lannister]

The attitude switching is what gets me, paint me like I don't do anything, then praise the work once you look at it, but never apologize for the approach. Now that she is like "why do we keep having miscommunications" I just want to say "they aren't miscommunications! You fire off without taking a second to check on something first, or even asking a question, you just assume it's not done even though I've never missed a deadline. "

Instead I'll say, "open to your suggestions". sigh

I might just look up those horror stories so I feel better lol

Honestly, she sounds like every boss I've ever worked with. I think that's just the way it is when you're a subordinate. Don't let it get to you, it's probably nothing personal.
Here's a horror story: there is one paleobotanist who, every time one of his grad students gets a paper rejected or screws something up, writes a poem about how much of a failure that person is and then reads it out loud at lab meetings.

 

[NotWayneBrady]

The more responses I'm starting to realize most of us are biting our tongues in some way or another. I appreciate your experiences. I was thinking based on these experiences the letter would not be strong anyway, but perhaps these minor occurrences won't affect it that much. I can push it out.

There's a few different types of professors out there. Mine was of the opinion that if you can't write them an excellent rec letter, don't agree to write one. The only thing I would be cautious of in your situation is if your PI is of the other type.

 

[WhittyPsyche]

Honestly, she sounds like every boss I've ever worked with. I think that's just the way it is when you're a subordinate. Don't let it get to you, it's probably nothing personal.
Here's a horror story: there is one paleobotanist who, every time one of his grad students gets a paper rejected or screws something up, writes a poem about how much of a failure that person is and then reads it out loud at lab meetings.

Yikes. Just yikes.

There's a few different types of professors out there. Mine was of the opinion that if you can't write them an excellent rec letter, don't agree to write one. The only thing I would be cautious of in your situation is if your PI is of the other type.

I guess I'll just have to wait and find out which school of thought she belongs to.

 

[Slave to the Game]

You're considering leaving your lab because your PI thought you didn't do something, but you did do it, and that problem was solved by sending an email literally 2 sentences long reminding him that you did it.

You should just leave, since your sense of judgement is awful. Obviously, the PI should have known better than to bother you with these 1-line emails. That level of disrespect is outrageous, how dare he not recognize the talent that a high school diploma represents?

 

[WhittyPsyche]

You're considering leaving your lab because your PI thought you didn't do something, but you did do it, and that problem was solved by sending an email literally 2 sentences long reminding him that you did it.

You should just leave, since your sense of judgement is awful. Obviously, the PI should have known better than to bother you with these 1-line emails. That level of disrespect is outrageous, how dare he not recognize the talent that a high school diploma represents?

The fact is the attitude is not a good reflection on the relationship, and in my opinion, someone that constantly assumes I am not productive, has an overall bad perception of me that does not seem to change when their assumptions are corrected. In addition to the repeated meetings to discuss concerns of productivity, not a good picture. So my dilemma was weighing a more positive research experience to get a more positive letter, because at the moment I am doubting the strength of the letter that will be written. I have not had the same experience in previous labs or any other work/volunteer position, so I apologize to you, personally, if my expectation was that this is not acceptable behavior by a professional.

 

[Slave to the Game]

The fact is the attitude is not a good reflection on the relationship, and in my opinion, someone that constantly assumes I am not productive, has an overall bad perception of me that does not seem to change when their assumptions are corrected. In addition to the repeated meetings to discuss concerns of productivity, not a good picture. So my dilemma was weighing a more positive research experience to get a more positive letter, because at the moment I am doubting the strength of the letter that will be written. I have not had the same experience in previous labs or any other work/volunteer position, so I apologize to you, personally, if my expectation was that this is not acceptable behavior by a professional.

If that's your biggest concern, that the LOR may be weak or an incorrect evaluation of you as a student, you should ask your PI if you can sit down with him for a few minutes to discuss the LOR and have a frank discussion of how you feel that he may be unfairly judging you. If this is not possible, I can't see how a PI would write a bad LOR on your behalf - in my limited experience, the PI's at my school pride themselves on having catapulted former members of their labs into great careers. If I am also mistaken in this instance, you should probably increase the level of communication or something, since the big issue seems to be miscommunication. If he says "By Dec 15th get X done" and you get it done by Dec 2nd, you should just send a follow-up email on the 15th saying "Hey just in case you didn't get my last email, I completed X like you asked". I presume he is a busy person with an inbox overflowing with important emails, so a friendly reminder email to stave off the miscommunication near established deadline may help.

 

[WhittyPsyche]

If that's your biggest concern, that the LOR may be weak or an incorrect evaluation of you as a student, you should ask your PI if you can sit down with him for a few minutes to discuss the LOR and have a frank discussion of how you feel that he may be unfairly judging you. If this is not possible, I can't see how a PI would write a bad LOR on your behalf - in my limited experience, the PI's at my school pride themselves on having catapulted former members of their labs into great careers. If I am also mistaken in this instance, you should probably increase the level of communication or something, since the big issue seems to be miscommunication. If he says "By Dec 15th get X done" and you get it done by Dec 2nd, you should just send a follow-up email on the 15th saying "Hey just in case you didn't get my last email, I completed X like you asked". I presume he is a busy person with an inbox overflowing with important emails, so a friendly reminder email to stave off the miscommunication near established deadline may help.

That's a great suggestion. I usually delete a task once I complete it and submit. Perhaps keeping another list that still lists the established deadline so I know when to send the reminder email. The other suggestion, I think I will go with a general discussion for now, and perhaps in the spring sit to talk about the LOR, I think it may be too early now to bring it up.

And yes the communication is suffering as we actually do not see each other but a few times a month, we are in the lab at exact opposite times, so all communication is by email and phone conferences.

 

[WhittyPsyche]

I met with my PI today and expressed my frustrations, thankfully she allowed me to openly. I definitely need to thank you all for giving me tips on how to approach the situation. It was a positive overall experience and we both learned areas in which we can improve. I do think she has a very great opinion of me and she explained that she just forgets what she has asked/or said. She also told me the last lab manager would not respond to the emails directly but would instead ask if she's free to meet really briefly about whatever the topic was. I will definitely be using this strategy more, as it's clearly more effective and minimizes issues of misinterpreted tone.

So relieved that it wasn't as bad as I thought and that she actually likes me haha