LECOM-Erie or Touro Nevada

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noveltysocks

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I was ready to put a check in the mail to Erie, but then I received an acceptance letter from Touro University Nevada. I am so thrilled, but now I'm not sure what to do! I know there isn't really a wrong decision, but I would really appreciate some outside perspective.

At Erie I have a preliminary acceptance to the Primary Care Scholars pathway. There is a significant financial difference between the schools, but I am not sure how much I should even consider this in my decision.

I am so so grateful to be in this position. Thank you for any and all advice.

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I was ready to put a check in the mail to Erie, but then I received an acceptance letter from Touro University Nevada. I am so thrilled, but now I'm not sure what to do! I know there isn't really a wrong decision, but I would really appreciate some outside perspective.

I am from Washington State, and I intend to practice primary care. At Erie I have a preliminary acceptance to the Primary Care Scholars pathway. There is a significant financial difference between the schools, but I am not sure how much I should even consider this in my decision.

I am so so grateful to be in this position. Thank you for any and all advice.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=872907

^Some strong opinions on LECOM, from both sides.
 
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How long did you stay in Vegas for your interview? It's not for everyone.
 
If you know for sure that you want primary care, might as well take LECOM.
 
Congrats on making a choice you'll be happy with (I really didnt need to see which one you picked. Both are roughly equal in my book)
 
I am actually becoming more and more happy with LECOM. I am in PBL, which as stated in the lecom thread posted above, is way better than other options at LECOM... The PCSP pathway is 3 years, but your residency options are limited greatly. Personally, I didn't complete the secondary for Touro-NV because I decided it was too expensive and I didn't want to live in Vegas... OP, as long as you're happy with Touro-NV, our opinions really don't matter, but I just hope you are happy with the decision
 
LECOM: Solid DO school.

Touro-NV: Just read http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=696146

I particularly liked goooooober's response. A further search of the pre-osteo and osteo forums will substantiate the notion that Touro is the worst of the worst.

Thanks for that....

After reading the thread, though, I've found more complaints about the osteopathic education model more than complaints about Touro. There were definitely some good points made about DO schools and their failures in securing clinical rotation sites. This is a big problem and it's one of the reasons I won't be attending LECOM...they don't have "solid" sites available and they require too much traveling (stated at my interview, not making it up)

But, I'm still curious why you rank Touro as the "worst of the worst". Is it because of their clinical rotations?

I'm not attending any Touro school for the record, so I'm not trying to defend them or anything....
 
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Thanks for that....

After reading the thread, though, I've found more complaints about the osteopathic education model more than complaints about Touro.

It's not so much about the complaints, it's about the fact that an accredited school allowed someone to graduate with 1 month of inpatient medicine and zero experience rounding on surgery patients. That, my friend, is seriously F-ed up.

Mbeas said:
But, I'm still curious why you rank Touro as the "worst of the worst". Is it because of their clinical rotations?

Their rotations are merely a symptom. The Touro schools are as close to diploma mills as you will find in medical education.
 
It's not so much about the complaints, it's about the fact that an accredited school allowed someone to graduate with 1 month of inpatient medicine and zero experience rounding on surgery patients. That, my friend, is seriously F-ed up.



Their rotations are merely a symptom. The Touro schools are as close to diploma mills as you will find in medical education.

Wasn't there an entire thread about how the LECOM schools are the closest things to diploma mills? I mean either way the majority of DO schools suffer from this rotations lottery system problem. Especially LECOM, a school that does no pay for any of its rotations and sends its students basically across the country. But then again for 20k less tuition a year, I think the students can suck it up
 
Perhaps rather than comparing rotten apples to rotten apples, we could (once we graduate and won't be punished for it) agitate for an accrediting body that might hold Osteopathic schools (and residencies) to some minimum standards.
 
Their rotations are merely a symptom. The Touro schools are as close to diploma mills as you will find in medical education.

Literally the exact argument used against LECOM. And no, I won't go blow for blow over this, but you realize that the stack of complaints against LECOM for, effectively, identical issues is like 4x larger than all the touro's combined.

And I think their both the same, which is to say *not* the bottom of the bottom. But rather both midlevel schools that have their pitfalls that a few students will fall into every year. Most benefit greatly from the school though.
 
Wasn't there an entire thread about how the LECOM schools are the closest things to diploma mills?

Probably.

serenade said:
I mean either way the majority of DO schools suffer from this rotations lottery system problem. Especially LECOM, a school that does no pay for any of its rotations and sends its students basically across the country.

Touro's problem isn't a lottery, or the annual student diaspora (although those features do reflect the biggest weakness in current osteopathic education). It's the fact that the school is a very thinly veiled money making enterprise, which callously screws over desperate aspiring physicians. It dumps many of them into postgraduate programs without adequate preparation.

At least the students at LECOM have a friggin' chance.
 
It dumps many of them into postgraduate programs without adequate preparation.

Such as? I only asked because it is a very strong statement to make based off of one interaction with a new grad. I find it hard to believe that a student would have not completed a surgery rotation and only had A month of impatient exposure. And even if a school's clinical department edges closer to the incompetent end of the spectrum, shouldn't students be knowledgable of the process (i.e. the experience they need on rotations) and take responsibility for their education? Yeah, schools need to make this process as smooth as possible, but in the end, the student needs to be on the ball as well and start making noise when he isn't getting what he has been promised.

Regardless, it seems as if these issues may have plagued the first class or two in NYC and word is that there has been a lot of improvement since. Reading Doc Espana's posts over the last year or so, I would reckon that Touro-NYC has quality students that will demand quality education.
 
Regardless, it seems as if these issues may have plagued the first class or two in NYC and word is that there has been a lot of improvement since. Reading Doc Espana's posts over the last year or so, I would reckon that Touro-NYC has quality students that will demand quality education.

I will say that TouroNY runs itself a bit differently than CA/NV. But not *that* differently. CA and NV have had comments made back in like 2005 along these lines, but thats a long distance away from the present. No clue that anyone's been making them recently. But I dont really wanna go into that...

As for NY, we had two rough years when it opened and still put out one of the strongest "first match classes" you'll ever see. Now we're cruising along pretty decently. Flaws? Sure. But we're above the mean/median and thats prob partly because NY is run much tighter by the home school, and partially because NY is a great place to train for simple exposure to people who can make your career. Can't rule out how many matches are likely made by knowing the right people.
 
Wasn't there an entire thread about how the LECOM schools are the closest things to diploma mills? I mean either way the majority of DO schools suffer from this rotations lottery system problem. Especially LECOM, a school that does no pay for any of its rotations and sends its students basically across the country. But then again for 20k less tuition a year, I think the students can suck it up

From what I have heard from students at the school, those who end up "across the country" are the ones who choose to leave Erie for their rotations. Had they stayed in/around Erie their travel would have been limited. I do not think LECOM is as bad as the rap it gets here on SDN.

BTW, why does NOT paying for rotations have to be considered a negative thing? (I understand that there are concerns of losing locations, but this issue is blown up on SDN). In NYC, local schools are shut out because of the vast amount of greenbacks being dumped on the hospitals by the true diploma mills on the islands. Those schools pay, does that make them good?

Back to the trendy, school-vs-school thread, Erie is mad cheap (relatively in terms of tuition); rent is cheap, food is very affordable, and it has a very chill vibe. The people are nice and you will find enough things to do to occupy the very little free time you will have. I'm sure either school will offer you the opportunity to begin this journey and become a successful physician. That however is mostly on you.
 
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I will say that TouroNY runs itself a bit differently than CA/NV. But not *that* differently.

Oops my bad. I skimmed through the last few posts and noticed it wasn't NYC after posting. Finals melted my brain in the past week.
 
So I've narrowed my options down to LECOM and LMU-DCOM. Does anyone have any info about years 3/4 at these two. I realize LMU is really new, but they have the President of the AOA and several former deans on faculty- does anyone know how their rotation sites are? Are they well connected because of their staff or are they not well connected because they are new? Any info would be great!
 
I am currently accepted to LECOM-Erie (PBL). I am ECSTATIC that I have the chance to basically move back to CO to spend time with my husband for rotations. I do not see it as a down side in any way. Additionally, being able to pick an entirely different locale to try out is also great in my opinion as I can try out a place for a few weeks to see if I really like the area... I am actually starting to put LECOM above SOMA because of it. If I go to SOMA (I'm waitlisted) I HAVE to spend 4yrs away, if I go to LECOM I don't, and its way cheaper
 
I am currently accepted to LECOM-Erie (PBL). I am ECSTATIC that I have the chance to basically move back to CO to spend time with my husband for rotations. I do not see it as a down side in any way. Additionally, being able to pick an entirely different locale to try out is also great in my opinion as I can try out a place for a few weeks to see if I really like the area... I am actually starting to put LECOM above SOMA because of it. If I go to SOMA (I'm waitlisted) I HAVE to spend 4yrs away, if I go to LECOM I don't, and its way cheaper

I don't believe that LECOM has any affiliates in Colorado at this time, so I would advise against making a decision based on the possibility of living and doing rotations anywhere in particular except for Erie. You are required to do all core rotations and selectives at LECOM affiliates, though you can do elective rotations (two in MS3, three in MS4) anywhere. I understand that the admissions office misrepresents what you can do; PM any LECOM student on this board if you think that anything they told you doesn't jive with what you're hearing. It is inexpensive for a private school, though, for sure. Good luck wherever you decide to go!
 
I don't believe that LECOM has any affiliates in Colorado at this time, so I would advise against making a decision based on the possibility of living and doing rotations anywhere in particular except for Erie. You are required to do all core rotations and selectives at LECOM affiliates, though you can do elective rotations (two in MS3, three in MS4) anywhere. I understand that the admissions office misrepresents what you can do; PM any LECOM student on this board if you think that anything they told you doesn't jive with what you're hearing. It is inexpensive for a private school, though, for sure. Good luck wherever you decide to go!

I concur with this post. Double check what you can/can't do in Colorado. LECOM spouts off crap like this during the interview, but when you dig deeper, you do see that you are limited. I thought exactly like you did, that I could go back home to San Diego to live for MS3-4 since they have an affiliate in San Diego.. but doing some research, they only have IM rotations there. That means for the rest of the year I'd have to be back at PA doing core rotations at their hospitals. You can set up your own rotation sites with some paperwork, but still.. double check that you can do what you think you can do. I wouldn't want you to regret choosing your school because you thought you could be home for MS3-4 and you find out that you can't.
 
I realize LMU is really new, but they have the President of the AOA and several former deans on

Really? I thought Marty Levine was with touro ny. Actually, he is with touro ny. I didn't know that deal wad not exclusive. Anyone can confirm this?
 
I don't believe that LECOM has any affiliates in Colorado at this time, so I would advise against making a decision based on the possibility of living and doing rotations anywhere in particular except for Erie. You are required to do all core rotations and selectives at LECOM affiliates, though you can do elective rotations (two in MS3, three in MS4) anywhere. I understand that the admissions office misrepresents what you can do; PM any LECOM student on this board if you think that anything they told you doesn't jive with what you're hearing. It is inexpensive for a private school, though, for sure. Good luck wherever you decide to go!

I concur with this post. Double check what you can/can't do in Colorado. LECOM spouts off crap like this during the interview, but when you dig deeper, you do see that you are limited. I thought exactly like you did, that I could go back home to San Diego to live for MS3-4 since they have an affiliate in San Diego.. but doing some research, they only have IM rotations there. That means for the rest of the year I'd have to be back at PA doing core rotations at their hospitals. You can set up your own rotation sites with some paperwork, but still.. double check that you can do what you think you can do. I wouldn't want you to regret choosing your school because you thought you could be home for MS3-4 and you find out that you can't.

I have seen the list. There are many sites in Colorado. I have also spoken with 3rd and 4th year students, and they have confirmed this.
 
I have seen the list. There are many sites in Colorado. I have also spoken with 3rd and 4th year students, and they have confirmed this.
Are you sure that the list you saw was for LECOM and not another school? I am a third-year at LECOM and I can assure you that there are no CO affiliates on the list that we have to choose from.
:confused: Maybe it was a list of where people have done electives?
Here is the list of our affiliates:

Akron General Medical Center
400 Wabash Avenue, Akron, OH 44307

Alle-Kiski Medical Center
1301 Carlisle Street, Natrona Heights, PA

Aria Health
10800 Knights Road, Philadelphia, PA 19114

Altman Psychiatric Associates
751 Merchant St., Ambridge, PA 15003

Aultman Hospital
2600 6th St., S.W., Canton, OH 44710

Botsford General Hospital
20850 Grand River Avenue, Farmington Hills, MI 48336

Clarion Osteopathic Community Hospital
One Hospital Drive, Clarion , PA 16214

Clearfield Hospital
809 Turnpike Avenue, Clearfield, PA 16830

Community Health Center
274 East Chicago Street, Coldwater , MI 49036-2088

Community Medical Center
1800 Mulberry Street, Scranton , PA 18510

Conemaugh Memorial Medical Center
1086 Franklin Street, Johnstown, PA 15905-4398

Corry Memorial Hospital
612 West Smith St., Corry, PA 16407

FDR Medical Services
3085 Southwestern Blvd., Suite 204, Orchard Park, NY

Fulton County Medical Center
214 Peach Orchard Road, McConnellsburg, PA

Good Samaritan Hospital Medical Center
1000 Montauk Highway, West Islip, NY 11795

Grove City Medical Center
631 North Broad St Ext., Grove City, PA 16127-9703

Guthrie/Robert Packer Hospital
One Guthrie Square 6th Level Bird Sumner Building, Sayre, PA

Hamot Medical Center
201 State Street, Erie , PA 16550

Heart of Lancaster Regional Medical Center
1500 Highlands Drive, Lititz, PA 17543

Hefner VA Medical Center
1601 Brenner Avenue, Salisbury, NC 28144

Indiana Regional Medical Center
835 Hospital Road, P.O. Box 788, Indiana, PA 15701-0788

J.C. Blair Memorial Hospital
1225 Warm Springs Avenue, Huntingdon, PA 16652

Jameson Health Systems
1211 Wilmington Ave., New Castle , PA 16105

Kane Community Hospital
4372 Rte 6, Kane PA 16735

Latrobe Area Hospital at Westmoreland
One Mellon Way, Latrobe, PA 15650

Long Beach Medical Center
455 East Bay Drive, Long Beach , NY 11561-2300

Meadville Medical Center
751 Liberty Street, Meadville, PA 16335

Memorial Hospital
325 S. Belmont Street, York , PA 17403

Mercy Catholic Medical Center
1500 Lansdowne Ave., Darby, PA 19023

Mercy Suburban Hospital
2701 DeKalb Pike, Norristown , PA 19401

Millcreek Community Hospital
5515 Peach Street, Erie, PA 16509

Mon Yough Community Services
500 Walnut St., McKeesport, PA 15132

Monongahela Valley Hospital
1163 Country Club Road, Monongahela, PA 15063

Niagara Falls Memorial Medical Center
501 Tenth Street, Niagara Falls, NY 14301

Oakwood Southshore Medical Center
5450 Fort Street, Trenton , MI 48183

Ohio Valley Medical Center
2000 Eoff Street, Wheeling , WV 26003

Olean General Hospital
130 S. Union St., Suite 300, Olean NY 14760

Pediatric Alliance PC - Greentree
969 Greentree Road, Suite 100, Pittsburgh, PA 15220

Peninsula Hospital Center
5-15 Beach Channel Dr., Far Rockaway, NY 11691

Pinnacle Health at Community General
4300 Londonderry Road, Harrisburg , PA 17109

Planned Parenthood of WNY
2697 Main Street, Buffalo, NY 14214

Safe Harbor Behavioral Health
1330 West 26th St., Erie, PA 16508

Saint Vincent Health Center
2314 Sassafras St., 3rd Floor Erie , PA 16502

Sarah A. Reed Childrens Center
2445 West 34th Street, Erie , PA 16506

Sisters of Charity Hospital
2157 Main Street, Buffalo , NY 14214

Somerset Hospital
222 South Center Ave, Somerset, PA 15501

South Pointe Hospital
20000 Harvard Road, Warrensville Heights, OH 44122

Southeastern Ohio Regional Medical Center
1341 Clark Street, Cambridge, OH 43725-9614

Southwood Psychiatry Hospital
2575 Boyce Plaza Road, Pittsburgh, PA 15241

St. Clair Hospital
1000 Bower Hill Road, Pittsburgh , PA 15243

St. Elizabeth's Health Center
1044 Belmount Ave, PO Box 1790, Youngstown, OH 44501

St. Elizabeth Medical Center
120 Hobart Street, Utica, NY 13501

St. Elizabeth Regional Health
1501 Hartford St., P.O. Box 7501, Lafayette, IN 47904

St. John's Episcopal Hospital
327 B-19th Street, Far Rockaway , NY 11691

St. Joseph Medical Center
145 N. 6th Street, 2nd Floor, Room 2000, Reading, PA 19601

St. Luke's Hospital - Allentown Campus
1736 Hamilton Street, Allentown , PA 18104

Stairways Behavioral Health
2185 West 8th Street, Erie, PA 16505

Titusville Area Hospital
406 West Oak Street, Titusville, PA 16354

UH Conneaut Medical Center (Brown Memorial Hospital)
158 West Main Road, Conneaut, OH 44030

Uniontown Hospital
500 West Berkeley Street, Uniontown, PA 15401

United Hospital Center
#1 Hospital Plaza, Clarksburg, WV 26301

University at Buffalo - Dept of Fam Med
School of Medicine, 202 Farber Hall, Buffalo, NY 14214

University Hospital System
27100 Chardon Road, Richmond Heights, OH 44143

UPMC Horizon
2200 Memorial Drive, Farrell , PA 16121

UPMC McKeesport
2347 5th Avenue, McKeesport, PA 15132

UPMC Mercy Hospital of Pittsburgh
1400 Locust Street, Pittsburgh , PA 15219

UPMC St. Margaret
815 Freeport Road, Pittsburgh , PA 15215

VA Medical Center - Erie
135 East 38th Street, Erie , PA 16504

Warren Hospital
755 Memorial Parkway, Suite 300, Phillipsburg, NJ 08865

The Washington Hospital
95 Leonard Avenue, Building 2, Suite 300, Washington, PA

WCA Hospital
207 Foote Avenute, Jamestown, NY 14701

Western Pennsylvania Hospital - Forbes Regional Campus
2566 Haymaker Road, Monroeville, PA 15146

Western Pennsylvania Hospital
4800 Friendship Avenue, Pittsburgh , PA 15224

Westview Hospital
3630 Guion Rd, Indianapolis, IN 46222

Wheeling Hospital
40 Medical Park, Suite 406, Wheeling, WV 26003

Wilson Regional Medical Center
33-57 Harrison Street Johnson City , NY 13790

Windber Hospital
600 Somerset Avenue, Windber, PA 15963

Wyoming Valley Healthcare System
2 Sharpe Street, Kingston, PA 18704

York Hospital
10001 South George Street, York, PA 17405

Not every site offers every rotation. Some of these have also been dropped, so it's possible that they're adding new ones, but I haven't heard anything about a whole new crop of affiliates in Colorado. There were people from my class that rotated in San Diego for most of MS3 - there was a lottery to see who would be allowed to rotate there. I don't know what the status of that is for coming years.
 
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I have seen the list. There are many sites in Colorado. I have also spoken with 3rd and 4th year students, and they have confirmed this.

Just talked to the LECOM-E people I rotate with. They confirmed a sibgle hospital in denver is all that is available in Colorado. They don't think it offers everything, rotation wise, but they weren't 100% on that specific detail.

They did mention the SD sites though.
 
Such as? I only asked because it is a very strong statement to make based off of one interaction with a new grad.

It's merely one example.

Dharma said:
I find it hard to believe that a student would have not completed a surgery rotation and only had A month of impatient exposure.

I find it utterly astonishing, but it happened and continues to happen.

Dharma said:
And even if a school's clinical department edges closer to the incompetent end of the spectrum, shouldn't students be knowledgable of the process (i.e. the experience they need on rotations) and take responsibility for their education? Yeah, schools need to make this process as smooth as possible, but in the end, the student needs to be on the ball as well and start making noise when he isn't getting what he has been promised.

No, the onus should not be on the students to "take responsibility for their education." In simplest terms a medical school performs two functions: (1) produce an adequate preclinical curriculum, (2) produce and adequate clinical curriculum. It is not the student's job to offer excuses and pick up slack when an institution of higher learning cannot be bothered to fulfill its duties.
 
Are you sure that the list you saw was for LECOM and not another school? I am a third-year at LECOM and I can assure you that there are no CO affiliates on the list that we have to choose from.
:confused: Maybe it was a list of where people have done electives?
Here is the list of our affiliates:

......

Not every site offers every rotation. Some of these have also been dropped, so it's possible that they're adding new ones, but I haven't heard anything about a whole new crop of affiliates in Colorado. There were people from my class that rotated in San Diego for most of MS3 - there was a lottery to see who would be allowed to rotate there. I don't know what the status of that is for coming years.

The list I saw was not from Erie (but it was a LECOM student), and it was from a 4th year. Possibly it has changed, but there was way more sites on it than you listed...
 
Just talked to the LECOM-E people I rotate with. They confirmed a sibgle hospital in denver is all that is available in Colorado. They don't think it offers everything, rotation wise, but they weren't 100% on that specific detail.

They did mention the SD sites though.

Good to see that students from LECOM-E are rotating in Brooklyn. Are they able to satisfy a good chunk of their core clerkships here? Or is this a random rotation or two?
 
It's merely one example.



I find it utterly astonishing, but it happened and continues to happen.



No, the onus should not be on the students to "take responsibility for their education." In simplest terms a medical school performs two functions: (1) produce an adequate preclinical curriculum, (2) produce and adequate clinical curriculum. It is not the student's job to offer excuses and pick up slack when an institution of higher learning cannot be bothered to fulfill its duties.

I agree that a school that fails its students in such a way should be called out for their shortcomings and punished as necessary, then followed with the hawk-eye for years to come. That said, if this type of thing happens, a student has to make noise and pounce on the situation. "Oh, wait... I don't have a surgery rotation?" Jump on it. Just don't shrug your shoulders and float down the river to graduation, while your money spins 'round and down the toilet...

Of course, a student shouldn't have to deal with this kind of thing, especially for 30K+ a year. Still... a person shouldn't let that happen to himself.
 
Good to see that students from LECOM-E are rotating in Brooklyn. Are they able to satisfy a good chunk of their core clerkships here? Or is this a random rotation or two?

its at least OBGYN and Internal Medicine. I think Surgery can be done for them out here too (about 90% sure on that, but ive not rotated in surgery yet).
 
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