"Let Asians compete freely with white students."

[deez4life]

Originally posted by hightrump
To take YOUR spot....yeah right....lets see it gandhi

How was that NOT offensive? I don't see how you're complementing Gandhi in any way. It's like calling a Chinese person Confuscious, or an African person Chaka Zulu, solely based on his/her race. It's a habit that bigots have.

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[Ryo-Ohki]

Is Amit1 Indian?

 

[Ryo-Ohki]

It was intended as an insult to Amit1. Juxtaposing his apparent charitable nature (I'll will give this admissions slot away) to the fact that he was actually giving away someone else's slot. Gandhi, of course, embodied the idea of sacrificing oneself of which Amit1's statement was the exact polar opposite. I don't see how it is a racist statement unless hightrump thinks Amit1 is an Indian.

That being said, Amit1's statement is a satire. It is obviously a playful joke.

 

[kito]

will cobragirl or leo please do something about this? it's getting out of hand.

i think that you people need to get a grip and take your frustrations out elsewhere. we've revisited this so many different times from so many perspectives that it is getting tired. i can't stand feelings of entitlement of all kinds, whether it is about URMs wanting what they deem "equal opportunity" through reverse discrimination, or ORMs wanting what they deem "equal opportunity" by refusing to acknowledge the role diversity plays in what it means to be American. why don't you gifted, bright and dedicated youngsters go out, do your thing, become outstanding doctors and save lives, and leave all of this bickering to the politicians. it is unbecoming of you...

 

[....]

Is Amit1 Indian?

If amit1 is indian I apologize...I had only read that one post and as Ryo-oki said, I was contrasting gandhi's giving nature with amits post about giving. If amit was being playfull, ok.
I dont understand why people explode, maybe gleevec knows somthing about amit1 that i dont.


"and leave all of this bickering to the politicians"

Like i have said many times....Only fighting fights which benifit you directly is ethicaly sad. It the same sort of thinking that allowed the nazis to conquer so much. The other countries were only interested in fighting on their door step, not their neighbors. Whether I get into med school or not, whether i can change AA soon enough that its abolision benifits me is irrelevant. Its wrong.

 

[....]

PS. while i disagre about when it is appropriate to discuss/agree somthing. I do enjoy reading your pre-med posts antikovich.

 

[trauma_junky]

Do I need to tell my story about a horse again! And no it's not about a horse on stage in Mexico.

 

[4 Ever]

question for everyone

now, lets say an asian or indian/paki (i only divide the two due to some people apparently take offense to being called the wrong nationality) person wanted to join the NBA but wasnt necessarily as good as the other people who play the game or for that matter, good enough to sit the bench. should this person be allowed to play ball with the lesser abilities? i didnt grow up in an area where basketball was popular, hell i didnt even know what a basketball was until i was 8yrs old and even then there was no court to play on. not having that skill from a young age, my game has suffered and im an okay player but im not great.... should i be allowed into the NBA over the next kobe bryant because theres only a few asian/indian/paki people in the organization?

 

[4 Ever]

and before someone labels me a racist for the comment above, let me tell you that if a minority feels as if they belong in medical school just because there are less of them and there have been hardships in their life that dont allow them to gain the high selfesteem or the aspirations to do better etc... i say bull****. last i checked we are all human beings... everyone CAN do something if they are willing to try hard and not give up. i dont want to hear that living in the ghetto made you dumb... case in point is a black male in new york who lived in the ghetto , who was adopted, who had 7siblings - the kid was able to get really high scores on his SATs, he would take a bus 30miles to his HS along with worked a partime job, was active in afterschool activities and got a full ride to an ivy league school based on his abilities... what happened to his environmental factors there? he lived in the ghetto, he went to a school that was 30miles from his home, juggled schoolwork, a job, clubs and STILL managed to get to an ivy league school with a full ride. i give that kid mad props because he is living proof that environmental factors have little to do with where you end up in life as long as you try your hardest to get to where you want to be.... if he can do it, why cant others?

 

[Dr2007]

4 ever, not to detract from your story, but I'm sure that there is more to the guys story than that. This guy had a lot to overcome, but I'm almost positive that there was a significant person in his life that instilled the fact in him that education was the key to his success. That incredibly powerful environmental stimulus can overcome almost any socioeconomic hurdles that one may encounter. I believe that the absence of this insightful significant other in some URM's lives is the main reason for the gap between ORM and URM levels of academic achievement. That's what I think, but who knows.

 

[4 Ever]

well in the interview on tv, he only thanks his parents so if anything, that would have been it... mostly he just said that he stayed focused and away from distractions that would have kept him away from his goal in life. his foster-parents said they were quite proud of him (well theyre on TV, theyre not gonna say they hate the kid). what his real driving force to accomplish his great achievement was, i dont know... all i saw was a kid that beat the odds and accomplished something that those with all the benefits in life have a hard time doing

 

[OrthoFixation]

Originally posted by Dr2007
4 ever, not to detract from your story, but I'm sure that there is more to the guys story than that. This guy had a lot to overcome, but I'm almost positive that there was a significant person in his life that instilled the fact in him that education was the key to his success. That incredibly powerful environmental stimulus can overcome almost any socioeconomic hurdles that one may encounter. I believe that the absence of this insightful significant other in some URM's lives is the main reason for the gap between ORM and URM levels of academic achievement. That's what I think, but who knows.

I would consider your point valid except that anyone can have this environment, it is not limited to only those with black skin. What stereotypical thinking! Leaders don't make excuses for themselves, they just "DO IT"!

Two problems: AA is a racist program and lowering the bar is never the answer. We should all compete on the same field. If not, then I want my MLB free pass and league minimum salary.

 

[SheroDoc]

If health care for blacks is so poor, how do you account for the fact that black women have a life expectancy greater than or equal to that of white men? Does that mean that black women recieve better care than white men? If so white men should be up in arms, preferential treatment based on the color of skin and a person's sex, that is racist and sexist!!!!

The problem isn't a lack of black doctor it is a matter of lifestyle.

Where did you get that statistic? All the statistics I have seen show AA women as having the lowest life expectancy behind AA men. White women being the healthiest. But anyway the point of the statistic is not to say white don't need as much healthcare, it is to point out the need for attention those in need. Its too bad that people always seem to think that anything done for the empowerment of minorities inherently requires taking away from the rights of the majority. I guess that it is hard for members of the majority to see that they have an inherent privilege in the health delivery system and many other arenas by virtue of race. Of course one will naturally be somewhat biased to ones own kind. Thats why we need more doctors of cultures that are underrepressented. It just helps to balance things out.

 

[liverotcod]

SheroDoc, you responded to a post made more than a year ago. Gotta watch it when using search.

 

[velo]

ha, yeah...way to dig this thing up! just let this thread of the damned die.

 

[tofurious]

Interesting post to bring up from a year ago. I think we should start the Straight A's: Asian Americans Against Affirmative Action

 

[velo]

although the article had almost NOTHING to do with this, I like the title of this thread "Let Asians compete freely with white students"

Nothing wrong with some healthy competition...i say bring 'em on, I ain't ascared!!!

 

[microTAS]

disclaimer: I'm not for/against, just being devil's advocate.

...

It is not b/c of Asians or b/c of the lack of Affirmative Action that more URM's are not brought into med school. It is b/c many URM's don't even make it to college b/c of poverty and an atrocious educational system. Of course, this is to some degree true for all other races, but no question that poverty tends to affect Black and Hispanic children disproportionately. (please no "um, duh" remarks in response to this; I just didn't want people to misunderstand and write "oh yeah, well look at all the poor Asian and white kids out there"..)

I've heard this explanation before, but people respond "if poverty tends to affect Black and Hispanic children disproportionately, then why not increase the poverty consideration factor so that admissions will favor Black and Hispanic children disproportionately instead of using AA?" If URMs don't make it to college b/c of poverty and an atrocious educational system, then we can expect offsets to the negatives poverty and an atrocious educational system to help URMs gain fair admission. We also gain the advantages of not hurting those few of other colors who also enduring poverty and an atrocious educational system and the set up of a stringent rewards system."

Of course, it is much harder to negatively offset members of the old boys' club this way, but then again you can start by crossing off legacy and looking at property dollars (old wealth).

The issue of AA is destructive to race relations. In the long run, AA in higher education will not make or break non-URM applicants, nor will it bring about the same significant changes that addressing K-12 can, so everyone needs to chill out.

 

[freaker]

agree that the problems relate more to socioeconomics than race.

This really, in my opinion, has less to do with poverty than it has to do with family structure and cultural emphases. Coming from a broken home or a single-parent family is a better indicator or whether a child will enter a life of crime than are socioeconomic variables. About 2/3 of black children are born into single-parent households.

I think it's telling that in Washington, D.C, approximately $11,000 is spent per child per year in the public schools, and their performance is abysmal. These kids are getting no support from home.

The kids who succeed in life are 9 times out of 10 the kids with parents supporting and encouraging them. The whole "overbearing" Asian parent phenomenom seems to ring true over and over again, and that includes when you apply it to other races. Growing up with two parents encouraging a kid to expand his horizons and achieve is vital to one's self-image and sense of initiative.

 

[Mleung39]

I just want to say i think it's not fair that because i'm a chinese american i'm not considered an URM even though i was brought up in the ghetto on welfare. Affirm Ac is reverse discrimination. I worked my way out and studied hard.
Like someone said before, it's not like all asians are filthy rich and well educated. 75% of all asian americans today immigrated here within the last 25 years and 80% were coming to america to find a better life meaning that they were originally living in harsh conditions where they were before but without a proper education and little english skills they weren't able to push past the boundaries to gain a better life, like my parents, and if they were it was due to their hard work.
I don't think the problem should be why and how there are so many AA's in schools, we should instead focus on their study and work ethics instead of finding a cheap way of leveling the playing field. Why can't people just work hard? I worked hard with no computer throughout high school, no SAT classes, no MCAT classes since i couldn't afford it.
And yeah, why aren't whites ever brought up when schools/studies talk about school populations? Why is it always minority against minority? I don't think there is one school in the nation (besides howard, etc..) that doesn't have the majority as caucasian.

 

[MissionComplete]

I love it when people hide behind %'s and statistics.

Did you know that 95% of people believe 45% of the stats told to them?

 

[kmnfive]

I've always believed that AA was a bit insulting, the notion that "you're too stupid so we'll allow you to come to our school with lower test scores and grades."

 

[tgerwuds]

60% of the time it always works

 

[Shaz]

I've always believed that AA was a bit insulting, the notion that "you're too stupid so we'll allow you to come to our school with lower test scores and grades."

I feel the same way! (I'm not URM)...but as Dave Chappelle once said, when racism works in your favor, "it is sweeeet"

 

[Darko]

I want to dig up an old post, too!

Stay tuned.

 

[velo]

I love it when people hide behind %'s and statistics.

Did you know that 95% of people believe 45% of the stats told to them?

You can make up statistics to prove anything....43% of all people know that...

 

[Mleung39]

If you didn't rely on statistics such as percents and averages when considering which schools to apply then you can talk, otherwise don't hate on the stats since they do have some accuracy and meaning, why else would we depend on them so much? Oh yeah, and about making up stats, check out www.census.gov for the stats on AA population and the different school's ethnic makeup. Thanks...

 

[djohnston]

Who was it that said: 90% of all statistics are made up on the spot!

 

[leechy]

although the article had almost NOTHING to do with this, I like the title of this thread "Let Asians compete freely with white students"

Nothing wrong with some healthy competition...i say bring 'em on, I ain't ascared!!!

You better be scared. J/k...

 

[SanDiegoSOD]

I just want to say i think it's not fair that because i'm a chinese american i'm not considered an URM even though i was brought up in the ghetto on welfare. Affirm Ac is reverse discrimination. I worked my way out and studied hard.

You have the liberty of applying as a disadvantaged student. You cannot apply as a URM because you are not a URM (under represented minority). Sorry. The liberals dont want any more Chinese people in their educational facilities. You (along with us whitties) lead to an undiverse educational environment, which will eventually lead to the end of the world.

 

[EvoDevo]

Way to revive a dead thread dude.

 

[visualwealth]

You are insane and very dumb... Subjective grading HURTS URMS especially Black URM's TRUST ME... Most profs assume that a minority would be happy w/ a B but, If the minority is an A student they have to work 1000X harder to prove it...

"I think that aa really negates the root of the problem which is a lack of adequate opportunity for urms in primary education, which would require a substantial investment to rectify."

There will never be equality in education. Just like there will never be equality in capitalism.

"Given this reality I can understand some preferantial treatment in college applications. However, I believe that after that the playing field is leveled to a certain extent. We all take the same classes and we all have the same tutors and help centers to go to."

If anything, URMs gain an advantage in universities. There often classes that only URM and "jocks" can take that they essentially get in A in for just showing up. All across the american university system there are tutoring programs that are only for URMs or disadvantaged students. Since an URM can come in from a high income family, and most pre-med URMs I've seen come from middle-class or higher background, they get these additional "perks" yet they are not disadvantaged. Not only that, but professors give exaggerated grades to URMs; there have been a number of Essays written by professors that have done this because they "feel sorry for them." There are also tons of programs set up "just for them."

I wish I had all the studies and cites that show that white professors, both men and women, give URMs exaggerated grades and less criticism than white students. I'm sure anyone in psychology or sociology has come across a number of these studies. My psychology textbook was littered with them("Psychology" 6th ed, David G Meyers)

 

[Blake]

Is the AA topic dead yet...NO? well lets string it up and beat it some more. For the love of God let it go people.

 

[getunconcsious]

Music and passion were always the fashion at the copacabana.

 

[docjolly]

The plethora of AA-related threads (this thread, of course, being no exception) are starting to become both redundant and ridiculous...How many ways can we beat a dead horse? Also, why was this thread even raised from where it had been buried?