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[Dr.What]

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[Goro]

Hi all, I am a recent undergrad, a long-time SDN lurker, but above all deeply conflicted. I would like some advice about what can I do to secure an acceptance. I am mostly interested in MD schools but will be ok with DO.n.

What is your year by year cGPA and sGPA?

You might be fine with a decent MCAT score and a strategic school list

 

[DrStephenStrange]

For now your priority should be the MCAT. Study for it for least 3 months and try to kill it. With a 515+ in the MCAT, you could probably secure some interview invites from some low tier MD schools. I don't know about New York schools because they are so competitive, but I would recommend you to get the MSAR and look for schools for which your MCAT (when you have it) cGPA and sGPA are at least in their 10th percentile range.
If you don't mind DO, then your chances are better. With a 505+ in the MCAT, you would be competitive for most schools. If you're considering that route though, I would strongly suggest you to shadow a DO and get a letter of rec from him or her. I would also recommend DO schools such as (not in any particular order) PCOM-PA, NYITCOM-NY, KCUCOM, DMUCOM, CUSOM, LECOM, CCOM. If/when you have your MCAT if it's at least a 510+ definitely apply both MD and DO. If it's lower than that, I would only apply DO. Always remember to go MD over any DO school if possible, but if DO is your only option, don't sweat it, you're still gonna be a doctor.

Sent from my SM-G950U using SDN mobile

 

[jarednogeek]

Will you be able to kill the MCAT with the grads you’ve got in the pre-read? You’re trends are not good. Maybe if you do well on the MCAT you’ll be good for DO or MD MAYBE. If I were you I’d try to boost my gpa, specifically science. Why were you volunteering so much with not good academic performance? Focus on your grades first, that way you can become a physician and help tons of people.

 

[Goro]

@DrStephenStrange Thank you for your prompt advice!

I am kinda sorta leaning towards focusing solely on the MCAT during the upcoming months. However, I was admitted for a DIY post bacc at a CUNY college but the options for upper level bio courses during the Spring '19 semester are very limited with notoriously tough profs. I will likely be able to take a max of 2 or 3 courses (9 or 13 credits) in which if I pull off A/A- can boost my sGPA to 3.42-3.47 range. But considering I still have to take the MCAT and would like to send in super early apps, that will mean less time to dedicate for the exam.

So would a jump from 3.34 to 3.45ish in sGPA be worth jeopardizing MCAT study time? And would that jump help enough to where I can be okay with a 510+ MCAT score? I understand there is no guarantee that I will make all As in the classes or that I will make a 515+ but still would like to weigh the comparisons of a 3.34sGPA with 515+ MCAT or 3.45ish sGPA with 510+MCAT.

@Goro @jarednogeek @DrStephenStrange

I can't sugar coat this. You have a very uneven performance. What it telegraphs is that you have trouble with rigorous coursework. A strong MCAT will not erase that, and in fact, raise eyebrows as to the disparity between GPA vs MCAT performance.

You don't have a U-shaped or swoosh-shaped trend; I see see it as a downward one.

I strongly suggest acing a DIY post-bac or SMP, especially if you're boning for the MD

 

[Dr.What]

Would you please offer some insight? Sorry for randomly @-ing

@Lawper @libertyyne @gonnif

 

[MyOdyssey]

Would you please offer some insight? Sorry for randomly @-ing

@Lawper @libertyyne @gonnif

I assume you’re a resident of New York State?

If so, you have a steep hill to ascend and ideally would do GPA repair and extensive MCAT preparation if you want to be viable for MD programs.

 

[libertyyne]

First. You should try to get the best possible score on the MCAT you can. that shouldnt even be a question.

You are at the bottom end of a SD in terms of science gpa for matriculants in your state.

However you are almost 2 sds below the mean for ORM applicants.

I suppose if you score something along the lines of 519+ could help your cause. However it might still be a gamble. DO would probably be more easily attainable. IF you are dead set on MD i would do some science credits to show that you can cut it and that poor science performance was a fluke.

 

[jarednogeek]

If it were me I would delay my application a year, get 12 months of 3.8-4.0 science grades. At this point it’s not just about boosting your gpa, but showing a positive trend that shows medical schools you can handle it. I believe in you but a 515+ MCAT with a 3.3 sgpa will be difficult. If you kill the MCAT could you get into somewhere? Yes possible. But also a large chance of having to reapply, or doing poorly on the MCAT. Two of your recent semesters had a 2.0 and then a 3.1, what will that tell admissions officers? I would take 6-12 months of science classes, strengthen your gpa and your science foundation, then take the MCAT. Why rush? It’s a marathon not a sprint

 

[libertyyne]

If you attended MIT , CalTech or some other gpa destroying school I would temper my advice, but as it stands you need to show you can handle med school, and a year of solid grades would accomplish that.

 

[863168]

@Dr.What The elephant in the room that you haven't addressed in this thread and was touched upon by @Goro is your fourth year performance where you took what can arguably be considered a 'fair' amount of science credits compared to other BCPM majors and your performance was a 3.13 to a 3.36 compared to the fact that you were maintaining a solid 3.6 to 3.7 taking two BCPM courses a year. There is a more subtle component which is that you harp on your performance in Organic II as it is the statistically lowest performing point, but you miss out on the fact that even if we ignore Organic II that it appears that rigorous coursework as demonstrated by your performance appears to be your kryptonite.

Let me break this down one more level and explain that often times the difference in curriculum when it comes to Organic I and Organic II is the difference between more conceptual work (chair conformation, Fischer projection) versus conceptual memorization (reaction pathways). Organic is often seen as kryptonite for many premeds not just in how it affects their grades, but also how it reflects in terms of ownership. When you actually took a healthy amount of classes that were considered to be 'the norm' for premedical students, your scores demonstrated that large amounts of conceptual memorization poses a difficulty for you that you tried to hide in your first three years by only taking two BCPM classes for the entirety of the year.

This is my read on your situation. Note, I usually have a cynical perspective on things, I can't help it. You performed poorly on Organic Chem II. You wanted to show it was a fluke, so you used your last year to take a large amount of heavy classes. You failed to perform to past standards showing that you may have intentionally been taking a watered down schedule to prevent accepting the reality that you can't handle strenuous course work within the sciences. You walk into the interview with me and I casually bring up your low performance in Organic II. You tell me that it was a fluke and it really tanked your stats because you didn't take that many BCPM classes in the first place. It confirms my initial suspicion. You tried to work your way around your own shortcomings in order to try to get into medical school at the end of junior year, but you weren't successful. The last year of performance reaffirms the performance in Organic II. I don't like how this looks nor do I like the explanation.

 

[Goro]

@Dr.What The elephant in the room that you haven't addressed in this thread and was touched upon by @Goro is your fourth year performance where you took what can arguably be considered a 'fair' amount of science credits compared to other BCPM majors and your performance was a 3.13 to a 3.36 compared to the fact that you were maintaining a solid 3.6 to 3.7 taking two BCPM courses a year. There is a more subtle component which is that you harp on your performance in Organic II as it is the statistically lowest performing point, but you miss out on the fact that even if we ignore Organic II that it appears that rigorous coursework as demonstrated by your performance appears to be your kryptonite.

Let me break this down one more level and explain that often times the difference in curriculum when it comes to Organic I and Organic II is the difference between more conceptual work (chair conformation, Fischer projection) versus conceptual memorization (reaction pathways). Organic is often seen as kryptonite for many premeds not just in how it affects their grades, but also how it reflects in terms of ownership. When you actually took a healthy amount of classes that were considered to be meta for premedical students, your scores demonstrated against that large amounts of conceptual memorization poses a difficulty for you that you tried to hide in your first three years by only taking two BCPM classes for the entirety of the year.

This is my read on your situation. Note, I usually have a cynical perspective on things, I can't help it. You performed poorly on Organic Chem II. You wanted to show it was a fluke, so you used your last year to take a large amount of heavy classes. You failed to perform to past standards showing that you may have intentionally been taking a watered down schedule to prevent accepting the reality that you can't handle strenuous course work within the sciences. You walk into the interview with me and I casually bring up your low performance in Organic II. You tell me that it was a fluke and it really tanked your stats because you didn't take that many BCPM classes in the first place. It confirms my initial suspicion. You tried to work your way around your own shortcomings in order to try to get into medical school at the end of junior year, but you weren't successful. The last year of performance reaffirms the performance in Organic II. I don't like how this looks nor do I like the explanation.

And this is exactly what I and my Adcom colleagues would see and think if we looked at your app.

 

[Goro]

@Pina Colada I think that was a brilliant assessment of my shortcomings. I agree with everything.

I understand that for a MD acceptance, I will need at least a solid year of GPA repair. And I need a good MCAT score, regardless.

@Pina Colada @Goro @libertyyne
Care to comment on my chances as is, without GPA repair, for DO schools. What range of an MCAT score am I looking at to be okay for most DO schools (esp. NYIT)?

P.S. I will repost in Osteo forum in the future but in the interest of time and to just carry on with the convo, so if you don't mind answering that here please.

Apply broadly to do schools. You know which ones are on my bad boy list.

An MCAT of 510 or better should make you very appealing to a lot of them.

Then it will be up to you to sell yourself at interviews.

 

[863168]

@Dr.What For clarification, I'm not an adcom for a medical school and I would defer my opinion to @Goro and @libertyyne. Outside of the medical school application process, I want to tell you that I think living as a post-grad for the first year or two after school is extremely difficult with the current economic climate. I wish you the best and am sorry for the scathing analysis.

 

[libertyyne]

I am not an adcom , just a medical student. But I would paint a rosier picture for DO admissions for you. Currently as it stands you are close to the mean GPA for both science and total for matriculants.

Even for ORM candidates you are close to the mean and within an SD.

Anything above a 503 would put your smack in the middle of the applicant pool, so a broad school selection would help. A 510 would make you a full sd above the mean ORM candidate, and make your poor trend more palatable.

he

 

[Goro]

I am not an adcom , just a medical student. But I would paint a rosier picture for DO admissions for you. Currently as it stands you are close to the mean GPA for both science and total for matriculants.
View attachment 244202
Even for ORM candidates you are close to the mean and within an SD.

View attachment 244203
Anything above a 503 would put your smack in the middle of the applicant pool, so a broad school selection would help. A 510 would make you a full sd above the mean ORM candidate, and make your poor trend more palatable.
View attachment 244204he

You're can't merely look at the stats. The downward trend is concerning, at least to me.

 

[Goro]

@Goro Wait so are you saying that I am no good for DO either?

I didn't say that. You'll probably get lots of DO IIs...but it will be on you to seal the deal.

 

[Medic741]

@Pina Colada I think that was a brilliant assessment of my shortcomings. I agree with everything.

I understand that for a MD acceptance, I will need at least a solid year of GPA repair. And I need a good MCAT score, regardless.

@Pina Colada @Goro @libertyyne
Care to comment on my chances as is, without GPA repair, for DO schools. What range of an MCAT score am I looking at to be okay for most DO schools (esp. NYIT)?

I am already in my second gap year, 2019 app cycle will be my third gap year. I don't think I can/want to have four gap years. So I guess MD is out of question completely?

P.S. I will repost in Osteo forum in the future but in the interest of time and to just carry on with the convo, so if you don't mind answering that here please.

If UG was hard med school will eat you alive. Have you seriously considered other options?

 

[libertyyne]

If UG was hard med school will eat you alive. Have you seriously considered other options?

Not that it is very generalizable, my gpa trends and totals were in the same range as OP. However I was a few years removed.