Letter of Disinterest to the PD

[thecampuslegend]

I just had an interview the other day at a program where one of my interviews seemed to enjoy being a prickly pear. For example, he went over where I did my rotations and pointed one of them out and asked my opinion on the experience. I told him it was an excellent experience and one of the best ward months that I had, learned a lot, etc etc to which he followed it with saying that he thought it was a rotation with low educational value and a rotation where students went for an easy schedule. Anyways I followed up with my own questions and he did a rotation at that hospital 12 years ago and it was in an ambulatory setting...not a wards month like I had and he extrapolated those experiences to my rotation. Either way, he persevered on this lame topic for a good 8 minutes and then afterwards continued on with his bogus questions.

In the end during the question and answer portion of the interview, I informed him that some of the residents had stated they wished the cardiology service had more time for teaching and they felt weak in reading EKGs. My question was whether or not anything was being doing to improve the issue and his reply was a hostile "Why are you asking that? Do you want to be a cardiologist?" Even though I had just spent 7 minutes explaining why I wanted to be a hospitalist...

There were many other slick moves he pulled that aren't really worth getting into, but I just wanted to paint a quick bob ross picture.

When it comes down to it, I'm not ranking the program and I want the PD to know that this guy was a d-bag. Do I have the chance of facing negative repercussions for sending them an email outlining my poor experiences with the interviewer?

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[shopsteward]

I just had an interview the other day at a program where one of my interviews seemed to enjoy being a prickly pear. For example, he went over where I did my rotations and pointed one of them out and asked my opinion on the experience. I told him it was an excellent experience and one of the best ward months that I had, learned a lot, etc etc to which he followed it with saying that he thought it was a rotation with low educational value and a rotation where students went for an easy schedule. Anyways I followed up with my own questions and he did a rotation at that hospital 12 years ago and it was in an ambulatory setting...not a wards month like I had and he extrapolated those experiences to my rotation. Either way, he persevered on this lame topic for a good 8 minutes and then afterwards continued on with his bogus questions.

In the end during the question and answer portion of the interview, I informed him that some of the residents had stated they wished the cardiology service had more time for teaching and they felt weak in reading EKGs. My question was whether or not anything was being doing to improve the issue and his reply was a hostile "Why are you asking that? Do you want to be a cardiologist?" Even though I had just spent 7 minutes explaining why I wanted to be a hospitalist...

There were many other slick moves he pulled that aren't really worth getting into, but I just wanted to paint a quick bob ross picture.

When it comes down to it, I'm not ranking the program and I want the PD to know that this guy was a d-bag. Do I have the chance of facing negative repercussions for sending them an email outlining my poor experiences with the interviewer?

Yes. Not worth it. Move on.

 

[Ronin786]

Even if you have nothing to lose, you don't have anything to gain either. I doubt a PD is going to fire him over what an interviewee says in an email.

 

[Law2Doc]

I just had an interview the other day at a program where one of my interviews seemed to enjoy being a prickly pear. For example, he went over where I did my rotations and pointed one of them out and asked my opinion on the experience. I told him it was an excellent experience and one of the best ward months that I had, learned a lot, etc etc to which he followed it with saying that he thought it was a rotation with low educational value and a rotation where students went for an easy schedule. Anyways I followed up with my own questions and he did a rotation at that hospital 12 years ago and it was in an ambulatory setting...not a wards month like I had and he extrapolated those experiences to my rotation. Either way, he persevered on this lame topic for a good 8 minutes and then afterwards continued on with his bogus questions.

In the end during the question and answer portion of the interview, I informed him that some of the residents had stated they wished the cardiology service had more time for teaching and they felt weak in reading EKGs. My question was whether or not anything was being doing to improve the issue and his reply was a hostile "Why are you asking that? Do you want to be a cardiologist?" Even though I had just spent 7 minutes explaining why I wanted to be a hospitalist...

There were many other slick moves he pulled that aren't really worth getting into, but I just wanted to paint a quick bob ross picture.

When it comes down to it, I'm not ranking the program and I want the PD to know that this guy was a d-bag. Do I have the chance of facing negative repercussions for sending them an email outlining my poor experiences with the interviewer?

First, get a thicker skin. You won't get along with everyone you meet, and can't dwell on past bad experiences. You don't want to work with this guy, and it kind of sounds like he already made up his mind about you too. It's not a good fit, so move on to the next one.

Second, you have nothing to gain here, and you never know what bridges you might burn.

Third, a lot of programs solicit comments from applicants post interview, so that would be your opportunity to comment, if offered. I still probably would let it go. As long as he didn't ask any federally illegal questions, he's allowed to be a jerk, and you are allowed to not rank the program because of it. He's what you'd have to deal with daily so best to see his true colors now. It's more honest than a Bait and switch you'll get at most places, where they hide their dirty laundry during interview season.
2.

 

[gutonc]

When it comes down to it, I'm not ranking the program and I want the PD to know that this guy was a d-bag. Do I have the chance of facing negative repercussions for sending them an email outlining my poor experiences with the interviewer?

Welcome to medicine bro. Get used to it. There are a huge number of d-bags in this profession and unfortunately you won't be able to avoid them and send their colleagues or bosses nasty-grams telling them what you think about them. In fact, you may find yourself someday relying on them for referrals (although not so much as a hospitalist).

I agree with L2D that if you get the chance to complete a post-interview survey, that might be a time to bring it up...or not. If you have the email address of one of the chief residents, perhaps an email to that person would be worth sending.

But it's highly likely that if you had a bad experience with this person, so did other interviewees or current housestaff. After a couple of years of complaints from applicants to our fellowship (that came through comments directed current fellows), we removed one of our interviewers from the panel this year. We matched higher on our list this year than in the 3 prior years where that person was interviewing. This is strictly anecdotal but I guarantee that if I had interviewed with that guy when I was an applicant I would have seriously reconsidered changing my rank list.

 

[thecampuslegend]

First, get a thicker skin. You won't get along with everyone you meet, and can't dwell on past bad experiences. You don't want to work with this guy, and it kind of sounds like he already made up his mind about you too. It's not a good fit, so move on to the next one.

Second, you have nothing to gain here, and you never know what bridges you might burn.

Third, a lot of programs solicit comments from applicants post interview, so that would be your opportunity to comment, if offered. I still probably would let it go. As long as he didn't ask any federally illegal questions, he's allowed to be a jerk, and you are allowed to not rank the program because of it. He's what you'd have to deal with daily so best to see his true colors now. It's more honest than a Bait and switch you'll get at most places, where they hide their dirty laundry during interview season.
2.

First of, it has nothing to do with the thickness of my skin. I don't really give much value to whether or not people offend me - but i do think it's important that a program knows if they have jerks on their interview panel...because they are a representation of their program and can affect the way that applicants rank their program.

You are right about the burning bridges part and not gaining anything from tattling...so i will just let it go.

 

[Law2Doc]

First of, it has nothing to do with the thickness of my skin. I don't really give much value to whether or not people offend me - but i do think it's important that a program knows if they have jerks on their interview panel...because they are a representation of their program and can affect the way that applicants rank their program.

You are right about the burning bridges part and not gaining anything from tattling...so i will just let it go.

The fact that it still irks you days after the interview means you don't have thick enough skin. It needs to roll off you like a turtle shell. Jerks will come and go, but there's no reason to give them any real estate in your head.

 

[thecampuslegend]

The fact that it still irks you days after the interview means you don't have thick enough skin. It needs to roll off you like a turtle shell. Jerks will come and go, but there's no reason to give them any real estate in your head.

you irk me. and i hate turtles.

 

[shan564]

Now that this topic has come up, I have a similar question. I interviewed at a program that I really liked overall until one particular interview. As it happens, the "interviewer" was a PGY2 resident. She hadn't even looked at my application, and kept saying things to discourage me from ranking that program highly. For instance, "I know this isn't as good as some other programs in the region, but I came here because my husband was here" (actually, I thought that this actually was one of the top programs in the region). Or "if you're interested in research, you should probably go somewhere else, like (program A) or (program B)" (in fact, this program is very strong in research, they have a lot of research funding, the chair is a huge researcher, the PD is an MD/PhD, and the program has a dedicated research track). Or "this town isn't the best place, but I guess some people like it" (in fact, it's in a wonderful location that was a huge selling point for most other people).

At first, I thought that it might be some ethnic bias, which is not an uncommon phenomenon (she's Indian, I'm Pakistani). But then I found out that she was also like this with every other interviewee. I'm not sure what to make of this. One possibility is just to ignore it altogether and assume that she's an aberration... but if she's like that, then why did she interview all of the candidates that day (she's just a regular average everyday PGY2 with no special position, so it's not like she's an irreplaceable asset to the interviewing team). Another possibility is that she's actively trying to make the program less competitive for some reason (maybe she has a friend coming in? Maybe there's a political issue that I don't know about?). Another possibility is that she's actually unhappy there (maybe I should consider it to be a red flag?). Thoughts?

 

[pooh86]

Another possibility is that she's actually unhappy there (maybe I should consider it to be a red flag?). Thoughts?

If this happened to me, I would take it as the resident is unhappy and this is her way of warning you to not go to the program. I think she's giving you hints without straight out saying you shouldn't go there.


On a similar note, I had a program director whom on interview day told me how it's usually a difficult transition between living in a city (where I am now) and moving to a rural area (where the program is). He also said a few other things that overall gave me the feeling he was discouraging me from ranking that program. I repeated told him reasons why I liked the program, including its location (I went there for undergrad actually so I'm used to that location) but I wonder if it was his way of telling me I wouldn't be ranked highly therefore I shouldn't bother ranking them highly. Of course I'll still rank the program however I feel about it but his comments definitely gave me a weird vibe.

 

[akhim]

Now that this topic has come up, I have a similar question. I interviewed at a program that I really liked overall until one particular interview. As it happens, the "interviewer" was a PGY2 resident. She hadn't even looked at my application, and kept saying things to discourage me from ranking that program highly. For instance, "I know this isn't as good as some other programs in the region, but I came here because my husband was here" (actually, I thought that this actually was one of the top programs in the region). Or "if you're interested in research, you should probably go somewhere else, like (program A) or (program B)" (in fact, this program is very strong in research, they have a lot of research funding, the chair is a huge researcher, the PD is an MD/PhD, and the program has a dedicated research track). Or "this town isn't the best place, but I guess some people like it" (in fact, it's in a wonderful location that was a huge selling point for most other people).

At first, I thought that it might be some ethnic bias, which is not an uncommon phenomenon (she's Indian, I'm Pakistani). But then I found out that she was also like this with every other interviewee. I'm not sure what to make of this. One possibility is just to ignore it altogether and assume that she's an aberration... but if she's like that, then why did she interview all of the candidates that day (she's just a regular average everyday PGY2 with no special position, so it's not like she's an irreplaceable asset to the interviewing team). Another possibility is that she's actively trying to make the program less competitive for some reason (maybe she has a friend coming in? Maybe there's a political issue that I don't know about?). Another possibility is that she's actually unhappy there (maybe I should consider it to be a red flag?). Thoughts?

not to turn this thing into a race card, but considering shes Indian, and you and the interviewer both had conflicting opinions about the area, program, research, etc. i think shes discouraging others to rank the program high because she has another indian friend coming in. was she an IMG? not that it matters shes an IMG or not, the fact that shes indian and the given circumstances of your story, already leads me to believe this postulate is true. being an IMG would just be icing on the cake.

 

[thierryhenry]

I don't think you guys could be more wrong.

And for the person saying they have thick skin you obviously have been thinking about it enough to come here and whine about it on a message board. Relax drink a beer

 

[Miss Alyssa]

In one of my interviews the interviewer took the time to criticize the information on the letterhead of one of my LORs, then blatantly downplayed (or was ignorant of) the accomplishments of the letter writer who is a department head of the same subspecialty as the interviewer, and then questioned me intensely on why I would do a sub-I there. It was actually a 2-on-1 interview and the other interviewer did nothing to redirect the line of questioning.

I have no intentions of contacting the PD about it, but it was clear from that and more that I wasn't going to be a good fit.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I just had an interview the other day at a program where one of my interviews seemed to enjoy being a prickly pear. For example, he went over where I did my rotations and pointed one of them out and asked my opinion on the experience. I told him it was an excellent experience and one of the best ward months that I had, learned a lot, etc etc to which he followed it with saying that he thought it was a rotation with low educational value and a rotation where students went for an easy schedule. Anyways I followed up with my own questions and he did a rotation at that hospital 12 years ago and it was in an ambulatory setting...not a wards month like I had and he extrapolated those experiences to my rotation. Either way, he persevered on this lame topic for a good 8 minutes and then afterwards continued on with his bogus questions.

In the end during the question and answer portion of the interview, I informed him that some of the residents had stated they wished the cardiology service had more time for teaching and they felt weak in reading EKGs. My question was whether or not anything was being doing to improve the issue and his reply was a hostile "Why are you asking that? Do you want to be a cardiologist?" Even though I had just spent 7 minutes explaining why I wanted to be a hospitalist...

There were many other slick moves he pulled that aren't really worth getting into, but I just wanted to paint a quick bob ross picture.

When it comes down to it, I'm not ranking the program and I want the PD to know that this guy was a d-bag. Do I have the chance of facing negative repercussions for sending them an email outlining my poor experiences with the interviewer?

I'm going to give you somewhat opposite advice. As a PD, I totally want to know what's happening in my program's interviews. If some interviewer is giving people a hard time, then I want to know that. Am I going to get them "fired" from my program? Of course not. But I might take them off my interview committee.

Now maybe I did know that this person is a jerk and I purposely set you up with him to see how you would react. That's unlikely though. And, if so, you made the right decision to move on.

So, my advice to you would be to let the PD know what happened. You certainly could wait until after match day, but honestly it's not going to matter much if you did so beforehand unless you're applying into a field with very few spots where everyone knows each other. if you do let them know, you try to do so in the best light possible -- "I really enjoyed meeting you and seeing your program, was really impressed with the .. blah blah blah... But I did want to comment on an interview experience that I had with Dr. X. I left the interview feeling that it had a very negative tone. For example, blah blah blah. I mention this not to complain, but simply so that you are aware, as I would hate for others in the future to get a negative sense of your program." Something like that.

L2D did mention using the post match survey, and you certainly could do that.

We have a survey that we give people just after the interview. Although most comments are positive, we had a few negative ones, both about their interviews -- one that the interviewer hadn't reviewed their application prior, and one that their interviewer asked inappropriate questions. I totally want to know more details about both (since the survey is anonymous, I can't tell whom the interview was, nor contact the applicant post match to get more details).

you irk me. and i hate turtles.

Turtles are just helpless creatures, just like medical students.

Now that this topic has come up, I have a similar question. I interviewed at a program that I really liked overall until one particular interview. As it happens, the "interviewer" was a PGY2 resident. She hadn't even looked at my application, and kept saying things to discourage me from ranking that program highly. For instance, "I know this isn't as good as some other programs in the region, but I came here because my husband was here" (actually, I thought that this actually was one of the top programs in the region). Or "if you're interested in research, you should probably go somewhere else, like (program A) or (program B)" (in fact, this program is very strong in research, they have a lot of research funding, the chair is a huge researcher, the PD is an MD/PhD, and the program has a dedicated research track). Or "this town isn't the best place, but I guess some people like it" (in fact, it's in a wonderful location that was a huge selling point for most other people).

At first, I thought that it might be some ethnic bias, which is not an uncommon phenomenon (she's Indian, I'm Pakistani). But then I found out that she was also like this with every other interviewee. I'm not sure what to make of this. One possibility is just to ignore it altogether and assume that she's an aberration... but if she's like that, then why did she interview all of the candidates that day (she's just a regular average everyday PGY2 with no special position, so it's not like she's an irreplaceable asset to the interviewing team). Another possibility is that she's actively trying to make the program less competitive for some reason (maybe she has a friend coming in? Maybe there's a political issue that I don't know about?). Another possibility is that she's actually unhappy there (maybe I should consider it to be a red flag?). Thoughts?

I agree this sounds like an unhappy resident. Again, I expect the PD would want to know about this.

 

[shan564]

not to turn this thing into a race card, but considering shes Indian, and you and the interviewer both had conflicting opinions about the area, program, research, etc. i think shes discouraging others to rank the program high because she has another indian friend coming in. was she an IMG? not that it matters shes an IMG or not, the fact that shes indian and the given circumstances of your story, already leads me to believe this postulate is true. being an IMG would just be icing on the cake.

She's not an IMG... she actually went to the same place for undergrad, med school, and residency. She did speak with a notable Indian accent, but I don't think it really matters whether this theoretical "friend" is an IMG or Indian or whatever...


You guys are probbly right about her being an unhappy resident, but I wonder why they would have her interview us if they know that she's not a particularly enthusiastic resident... everybody else at the program couldn't stop telling us about how great everything was.

 

[rokshana]

She's not an IMG... she actually went to the same place for undergrad, med school, and residency. She did speak with a notable Indian accent, but I don't think it really matters whether this theoretical "friend" is an IMG or Indian or whatever...


You guys are probbly right about her being an unhappy resident, but I wonder why they would have her interview us if they know that she's not a particularly enthusiastic resident... everybody else at the program couldn't stop telling us about how great everything was.

and, well, i would take that with a grain of salt...there is no program where EVERYTHING is great...

 

[Socrates25]

Disclaimer -- ex chief resident here

I agree with apd. The vast majority of PDs want to know if there's an ******* dissuading applicants from ranking their program. Remember that who the program matches is a big deal -- if there are a few scattered idiots who are causing the program to dig deep into its rank list then this will be spotted by the chairman of the dept as well as other faculty and they will put pressure on the PD to improve recruiting if it becomes a persistent trend.

As long as you write a professional letter and dont resort to cursing or overly derogative remarks, I'd say the vast majority of PDs would appreciate the feedback.

 

[winkleweizen]

You could also send him a letter anonymously? Or have one of your friends send it for you.

 

[FutureInternist]

I just had an interview the other day at a program where one of my interviews seemed to enjoy being a prickly pear. For example, he went over where I did my rotations and pointed one of them out and asked my opinion on the experience. I told him it was an excellent experience and one of the best ward months that I had, learned a lot, etc etc to which he followed it with saying that he thought it was a rotation with low educational value and a rotation where students went for an easy schedule. Anyways I followed up with my own questions and he did a rotation at that hospital 12 years ago and it was in an ambulatory setting...not a wards month like I had and he extrapolated those experiences to my rotation. Either way, he persevered on this lame topic for a good 8 minutes and then afterwards continued on with his bogus questions.

In the end during the question and answer portion of the interview, I informed him that some of the residents had stated they wished the cardiology service had more time for teaching and they felt weak in reading EKGs. My question was whether or not anything was being doing to improve the issue and his reply was a hostile "Why are you asking that? Do you want to be a cardiologist?" Even though I had just spent 7 minutes explaining why I wanted to be a hospitalist...

There were many other slick moves he pulled that aren't really worth getting into, but I just wanted to paint a quick bob ross picture.

When it comes down to it, I'm not ranking the program and I want the PD to know that this guy was a d-bag. Do I have the chance of facing negative repercussions for sending them an email outlining my poor experiences with the interviewer?

Something like this, but worse, happened at my medical school with one of the tour guides apparently being on the verge of sexually harassing some of the interviewees w/ his comments & talking non-stop about partying & gambling (Touro-NV).
One comment on SDN reviews & multiple people from our class reading it is all it took for a full on class meeting w/ the Dean & the removal of that individual from future tours
Worst case scenarios is that you could match at that place so I would NOT say anything right now. After the match, however, would be a good time to state your reasons for not ranking them high. Concentrate on why you were thinking on ranking them high but then mention this particular person's actions
My belief is that you should always try to make it easier for those following in your footsteps, so if doing this, specially w/ minimal to no risk (AFTER THE MATCH) is all it takes, then I would do it

 

[Buzz Me]

Personally I wouldn't say anything until after the Match. Speaking up now could only hurt you.