Letter of intent to Mayo?...already accepted to UWashington (Seattle)

[Trail Boss]

I'm on the alternate list at Mayo, they say that if you really want off of the alternate list you need to write a formal letter of intent. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I'm already in at UW which is ranked higher, but doesn't have Mayo's clout. Does it really make any diffence in the end where you go to med school? (I want to be a rural family physician)

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[Iwy Em Hotep]

Despite my obvious bias, I'd say that going to UW is a no-brainer decision if you want to be a rural family physician. You will feel completely comfortable here, and the opportunities to see rural medicine in many different geographic locations is unsurpassed.

Think carefully before turning down the UW for any other school, especially if you want to be a primary care physician.

 

[Saluki]

I'm a little biased because I'd like the Mayo waitlist to shorten so I can get in. But University of Washington is an incredible school, especially if you want to do primary care.... I would say just go to University of Washington...

Also, I wrote a letter to LOI to Mayo and I still ended up waitlisted so I don't think it makes a difference...

 

[MSIV]

Just for your info, and not that it matters that much if you want to do family medicine (it is BY FAR the easiest residency to get into), but Mayo's rep mostly comes from its fellowship programs/hospital. Mayo med school, although very good, does not carry the same kind of "clout" as the hospital. Even the residency programs are not considered to be all that prestigious. This is very similar to The Cleveland Clinic...amazing felowships/hospital, not prestigious residency.

UW med school AND residency AND fellowship AND hospital are all considered to be top-notch and carry considerable "clout." If rep is important to you, you have to look at rep as a medical professional, not as a layperson who says "ooh, I've heard of Princeton, they must have a great med school." Just because it is more "famous" doesn't mean that it carries more "clout" in the medical world.

 

[MSIV]

I didn't notice that the previous poster is planning to attend the Cleveland Clinic School of Medicine until after I posted. I didn't intend to attack the poster's intended school...the med school is certainly very good and the residency is fine, just not the BEST, #1 ranked as some of the fellowships and the hospital is.

 

[Saluki]

I didn't notice that the previous poster is planning to attend the Cleveland Clinic School of Medicine until after I posted. I didn't intend to attack the poster's intended school...the med school is certainly very good and the residency is fine, just not the BEST, #1 ranked as some of the fellowships and the hospital is.

You made me cry.... Where's the crying icon?

Just kidding... I know what you mean.... I think the med schools at Cleveland and at Mayo are excellent, but I think doing a residency at a higher volume program like Johns Hopkins or Columbia is actually the way to go... Then, you can come back and do the fellowship at Mayo or Cleveland depending on what you want to do... I still think the OP should go to University of Washington- if I was in state there that would have been one of my top choices, but instead I had to be a resident in Arkansas

 

[Koko]

Just for your info, and not that it matters that much if you want to do family medicine (it is BY FAR the easiest residency to get into), but Mayo's rep mostly comes from its fellowship programs/hospital. Mayo med school, although very good, does not carry the same kind of "clout" as the hospital. Even the residency programs are not considered to be all that prestigious. This is very similar to The Cleveland Clinic...amazing felowships/hospital, not prestigious residency.

What are you basing your comment on regarding the residency programs at Mayo and CCF? It sounds like a blanket generalization, although the op is interested specifically in FM. While I can't comment on FM at either institution, I can say that you're way off base if your opinion is that all residency programs at Mayo and CCF are "not prestigious". Having just went through the Match and done a great deal of research, including speaking with many people in academic medicine, I can assure you that none of the academics I spoke with share your opinion of Mayo. If they had, I would not have ranked it #1 when I had many options.

And while I don't know much about CCF, I do know that their neurosurgery and anesthesia programs are excellent.

 

[BlahtoThis]

I'd agree, at least with regards to Mayo's residencies, and definitely in internal medicine. I've been told by more than one cardiology chair at institutions on both the East and West coast that Mayo is one of the best places in the country to train for academic medicine in terms of residency. I long ago made the decision that their perceptions are more important than those of other fourth year medical students. Even looking at Mayo's fellowship match, I don't think people can really contend that Mayo isn't considered to be prestigious in terms of residency. It may not be as selective for interviews as some East and West coast institutions, but it definitely holds a lot of prestige in the medical community.

The fact is that the replies to the OP's post aren't the best geared since the OP seems to be interested in family practice. Honestly, for a career in rural medicine, I would think the best places to go to are places like UKMC or schools like that. The reality is that the quality of medical education in terms of basic science varies very little from institution to institution. However, the opportunities vary a lot. Mayo offers more academic opportunities (research and the like). University of Washington may offer a lot more diverse opportunities (in terms of the communities to work with, etc.). I won't pretend to know whether or not U. Wash actually has many opportunities for involvement in rural medicine practices. But I know the school I'm in (an East coast school in a big city) is not the best choice at all for somebody who wants to do rural medicine (as was told to one of my classmates by the Dean when she said she wanted to do rural family practice).

 

[Iwy Em Hotep]

I can answer the question as to the extent of the UW's rural medicine practices. During the summer between MS1 and MS2, you can choose to participate in a R/UOP (rural/underserved opportunities program) in one of these sites:
R/UOP map

After that, during your clinical years, you can do your family medicine clerkship at any of these areas:
Family Medicine Clerkship Sites

 

[BlahtoThis]

I can answer the question as to the extent of the UW's rural medicine practices. During the summer between MS1 and MS2, you can choose to participate in a R/UOP (rural/underserved opportunities program) in one of these sites:
R/UOP map

After that, during your clinical years, you can do your family medicine clerkship at any of these areas:
Family Medicine Clerkship Sites

That's really cool! I wish my school had anything remotely like that.

 

[aus1ander]

I preface this by saying I will be a PGY-1 at Mayo in IM this July.

All I can say is if Mayo was located in a major city, say Chicago, it would be almost impossible to get an interview. The fact is, many people are turned off by the thought of living in Rochester--which I think is an uninformed decision especially when people don't apply simply for that fact. There is a historical reason why the Mayo brother's father picked Rochester to settle down, and that is part of the allure of the institution. I worked with several Mayo residents, know many more from my school, and can say hands down they are the most polished people I have ever worked with. Their fellowship match speaks for itself.

I too am pretty sure I could have gone whereever I wanted--including some very big names on the east coast, but I picked Mayo because the learning environment is incredible, but most importantly, the people you work with are incredible. Frankly, some of the residents at other "prestigous" programs came off as arrogrant, self-centered, and pretentious. In the end, I wanted to work with like-minded people who could help me advance as a physician.

 

[Saluki]

I preface this by saying I will be a PGY-1 at Mayo in IM this July.

All I can say is if Mayo was located in a major city, say Chicago, it would be almost impossible to get an interview. The fact is, many people are turned off by the thought of living in Rochester--which I think is an uninformed decision especially when people don't apply simply for that fact. There is a historical reason why the Mayo brother's father picked Rochester to settle down, and that is part of the allure of the institution. I worked with several Mayo residents, know many more from my school, and can say hands down they are the most polished people I have ever worked with. Their fellowship match speaks for itself.

I too am pretty sure I could have gone whereever I wanted--including some very big names on the east coast, but I picked Mayo because the learning environment is incredible, but most importantly, the people you work are incredible. Frankly, some of the residents at other "prestigous" programs came off as arrogrant, self-centered, and pretentious. In the end, I wanted to work with like-minded people who could help me advance as a physician.

And this right here is why I'm still holding onto that waitlist.... Great people w/humility!

 

[aus1ander]

And this right here is why I'm still holding onto that waitlist.... Great people w/humility!

I hope you get it!

I worked with a Mayo medical student while I was visiting last fall and met a couple others while in the hospital, and they were all down-to-earth and friendly. And they all seemed to love Mayo MS. I wish I could say that about my medical school.

 

[BlahtoThis]

I'm going to be starting as a PGY-1 in IM at Mayo in July. And I have to say I got the same feeling from the medical students I met there. Also, they're really really really really dedicated to medical education.

 

[Saluki]

I hope you get it!

I worked with a Mayo medical student while I was visiting last fall and met a couple others while in the hospital, and they were all down-to-earth and friendly. And they all seemed to love Mayo MS. I wish I could say that about my medical school.

I hope so too, but I'm really lucky... Cleveland Clinic's program was modeled after Mayo's, and it shares a lot of the same positive traits- small class size, great hospitals to rotate through, excellent financial aid, and really caring professors... So, I'm in a win-win situation... If I get into Mayo, then I got my dream school. If not, then I get to take the Fulbright and go to an excellent school with a similar program... God must really love me

 

[Koko]

I preface this by saying I will be a PGY-1 at Mayo in IM this July.

All I can say is if Mayo was located in a major city, say Chicago, it would be almost impossible to get an interview. The fact is, many people are turned off by the thought of living in Rochester--which I think is an uninformed decision especially when people don't apply simply for that fact. There is a historical reason why the Mayo brother's father picked Rochester to settle down, and that is part of the allure of the institution. I worked with several Mayo residents, know many more from my school, and can say hands down they are the most polished people I have ever worked with. Their fellowship match speaks for itself.

I too am pretty sure I could have gone whereever I wanted--including some very big names on the east coast, but I picked Mayo because the learning environment is incredible, but most importantly, the people you work with are incredible. Frankly, some of the residents at other "prestigous" programs came off as arrogrant, self-centered, and pretentious. In the end, I wanted to work with like-minded people who could help me advance as a physician.

You hit on a major point for me, and one that distinguished Mayo from all of the other institutions I looked at: culture. From the residents to the attendings, there was a refreshing humility and genuinely friendly, down to earth vibe that I have not experienced elsewhere. I knew that Mayo had a reputation for excellence, but I did not realize how terrific the people are. That's in marked contrast to the northeastern academic centers. Out here most people who have impressive CVs let you know about it by the way they carry themselves and interact with others. To me that's a sign of insecurity and is tiresome. I was thoroughly impressed with the caliber of people at Mayo, residents and attendings, but even more impressed by their humility and decency. I feel honored to have the privilege of training at Mayo and I'm excited to get started in June.

Alright, didn't intend to hijack this thread. Good luck to trail boss and saluki no matter where you end up.

 

[sakura181]

Despite my obvious bias, I'd say that going to UW is a no-brainer decision if you want to be a rural family physician. You will feel completely comfortable here, and the opportunities to see rural medicine in many different geographic locations is unsurpassed.

Think carefully before turning down the UW for any other school, especially if you want to be a primary care physician.

I also agree with Iwy that UW is a wonderful place to be a medical student interested in family medicine, especially rural med. I'm currently a MS1 at one of the WWAMI sites in eastern WA and if Pullman, WA, isn't considered rural, then I don't know what is.

The FP opportunities that UW has to offer are extensive and many. During your first year you participate in preceptorships and I'm really happy to say that I've learned so much from my preceptors. I know that MS1 is filled with massive amounts of memorization and clinical medicine classes seem like a waste of time (i.e. I can't believe I'm doing the busy work of HPI's when I have a kazillion things to know for my anatomy exam) but my preceptorship has been something I always look forward to every week. An advantage of spending your first year at a rural site is that your preceptor will let you do and observe procedures that an urban physician might not be so eager to do. So far I've seen a vaginal birth, sutured up patients, assisted in surgery, and done a ridiculous number of digital rectal exams (um, I guess the last one isn't so hot) and I know my classmates have also gotten to observe some pretty amazing things. If someone wants to be a rural doc, then getting to follow and talk to other rural docs about their experiences will be invaluable.

Not only does UW have the R/UOP program, but there are also opportunities during your third year to participate in the WRITE program (apps.medical.washington.edu/somoc/, click on WRITE) which lets you do many of your clerkships in rural areas. And the connections you can make with physicians and researchers at UW will be helpful - it's #1 in primary care medicine for a reason. I can't speak for other schools, but I do know that I chose UW because of its commitment to both research and clinical medicine. It's a great school for training family practitioners, but it's also a great place if you want to become a specialist or researcher.

All right, there's my shpeel (sp?) about UW and why I think it's a great place. Mayo will also definitely give you some great opportunities so send in that LOI. But if you want to be a rural doc, UW, in my opinion, is the way to go.

 

[MN81]

Family Practice? Go UW. Plus, Seattle is a nice city.

 

[CanIMakeIt]

I'm on the alternate list at Mayo, they say that if you really want off of the alternate list you need to write a formal letter of intent. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I'm already in at UW which is ranked higher, but doesn't have Mayo's clout. Does it really make any diffence in the end where you go to med school? (I want to be a rural family physician)

All I can say is that don't make your decision of what you want to do AFTER medical school.... 'coz you never know what is ging to catch your eye... or fancy or whatever....Don't forget that Mayo aslo has incredible Fin Aid package too...

It is a tough decison between Mayo and UW....I am biased for Mayo ... so think and talk to other people before making a decision .... and don't count on it that you will still be interested after med school ....

Good Luck

 

[Trail Boss]

I know that it is very hard to think of anything bad to say about Mayo, especially from those of us that have been there and been awe struck. It is equally hard to say anything bad about UW's education. The buildings are crap, but the programs are as impressive as Mayo's facilities and both institutions have very amazing people. The one thing I worry about is getting to the end and wanting to be a surgeon or something. I don't know how supportive the UW is for people that don't want to do primary care. I am from Oregon, and for those of you that don't know it is virtually impossible to get into the UW when you are an Oregonian because we have OHSU and the UW is the only school that serves the other five states of the Northwest. I think they, correction: I know they only let me in because I said I wanted to be a rural doctor. I don't want to go there on false pretenses, which I wouldn't be at this point, but the previous post was right--who knows what they are going to end up doing. Mayo was a very alluring place, I doubt there is a place like it anywhere else in the country, if there is I certainly didn't see it when I was making the interview rounds.

 

[Saluki]

I know that it is very hard to think of anything bad to say about Mayo, especially from those of us that have been there and been awe struck. It is equally hard to say anything bad about UW's education. The buildings are crap, but the programs are as impressive as Mayo's facilities and both institutions have very amazing people. The one thing I worry about is getting to the end and wanting to be a surgeon or something. I don't know how supportive the UW is for people that don't want to do primary care. I am from Oregon, and for those of you that don't know it is virtually impossible to get into the UW when you are an Oregonian because we have OHSU and the UW is the only school that serves the other five states of the Northwest. I think they, correction: I know they only let me in because I said I wanted to be a rural doctor. I don't want to go there on false pretenses, which I wouldn't be at this point, but the previous post was right--who knows what they are going to end up doing. Mayo was a very alluring place, I doubt there is a place like it anywhere else in the country, if there is I certainly didn't see it when I was making the interview rounds.

I'm not going to say which way to go, but I will say that you shouldn't feel like you're going under false pretenses if you decide later that you want to do something else.... They understand that people are going to change their minds; the important thing is that you were honest about what you were planning at the time of application.

Everyone knows that UW is an amazing school- you won't have any trouble matching into surgery or dermatology or whatever if you change your mind about family practice...

 

[snobored18]

To the OP you can't lose either way...look I'm headed to Mayo and I highly doubt it has more "clout" as you put it than UDub. Don't get me wrong Mayo is a great place and I wouldn't pick to go any other medical school in the country over it for a million reasons, but thats me and last time I checked you aren't me and clearly there are people out there (MSIV) who would personally choose to go elsewhere. I'll be honest if you have a bit of an ickling to do rural medicine, I think Udub is going to be a bit more supportive. Mayo does serve a pretty rural area and with the Mayo Health System you will definitely be able to find the kind of experiences you need to really see if rural med is for you, but I don't think Mayo has the established programs in place that Udub has to encourage folks to really go for rural medicine. I think if you got a feeling while you were at Mayo that it was were you belonged you should right the letter saying Why you want to be at MMS. If you are just thinking about "prestige" I think MSIV is actually right...it is a fairly new medical school, this year i think will be the 30th graduating class. I remember when I was applying I told a couple of physicians that graduated from Umich, JHU and Columbia and they kind of scoffed at the fact that Mayo was my top choice, because when they were in my shoes MMS was far from established. I do think that as our generation replaces our parents that the status of MMS will rise significantly, but right now MSIV is right in some respects and I honestly don't care because Mayo is a good fit for me and will allow me to get where I want to be, which is likely a physician within the Mayo system. And you really need to select a school not based on "prestige" but on how well that school will help you get to where you need to be. If you truly believe its Mayo sit down and start writing, if not then you are headed to a great med school in Udub.

 

[sakura181]

I know that it is very hard to think of anything bad to say about Mayo, especially from those of us that have been there and been awe struck. It is equally hard to say anything bad about UW's education. The buildings are crap, but the programs are as impressive as Mayo's facilities and both institutions have very amazing people. The one thing I worry about is getting to the end and wanting to be a surgeon or something. I don't know how supportive the UW is for people that don't want to do primary care. I am from Oregon, and for those of you that don't know it is virtually impossible to get into the UW when you are an Oregonian because we have OHSU and the UW is the only school that serves the other five states of the Northwest. I think they, correction: I know they only let me in because I said I wanted to be a rural doctor. I don't want to go there on false pretenses, which I wouldn't be at this point, but the previous post was right--who knows what they are going to end up doing. Mayo was a very alluring place, I doubt there is a place like it anywhere else in the country, if there is I certainly didn't see it when I was making the interview rounds.

You're absolutely right about UW's buildings being crap. I would even go as far as to say they're dungeon-esque -- but you do have the entire city of Seattle and the nature of the Pacific NW as your playground.

If you're worried about UW gearing students only towards primary care, you shouldn't be. UW (actually ANY U.S. medical school) will give you a good education no matter what specialty you want to get into. To tell you the truth, I would say that only about 1/4 of the people in my WWAMI class are thinking primary care, 1/4 are looking at specialties, and the other half are absolutely clueless about what they want to do. There are a bunch of us interested in ortho (pretty popular), gen surgery, IM subspecialties, other surgery subspecialties, etc. I think there's so much emphasis on UW being a great primary care school that its impressive research and specialty training is downplayed. I grew up in Seattle so I knew UWSOM was a good school, but I didn't know until this year that UW has some of the top surgical residency programs in the country. Right now I'm interested in a fairly specific subspecialty and I feel really lucky I've found mentors in the field that have given me some good advice and contacts for research projects and general questions. Just know that your dream specialty will probably change 1,030,495 times throughout med school, so don't feel guilty about potentially being interested in things other than FP.

You should go to the school you think you'll be most happy at for the next four years of your life. Now, happiness means different things to different people; for some it's location and proximity to family/friends, for some it's having the least amount of debt after graduation, for some it's prestige and how many people matched into ortho or rad/onc. Only you know the answer to that question. From your replies, it sounds like you're leaning towards Mayo but worried that you'll regret not going to the "higher-ranked" UW if you get in. Luckily for you, no matter what choice you make it'll be a good one.

 

[NeuroSync]

I can answer the question as to the extent of the UW's rural medicine practices. During the summer between MS1 and MS2, you can choose to participate in a R/UOP (rural/underserved opportunities program) in one of these sites:
R/UOP map

After that, during your clinical years, you can do your family medicine clerkship at any of these areas:
Family Medicine Clerkship Sites

I totally agree with Iwy. There are almost limitless opportunities for very unique rural rotations all over the place at UW (from remote Alaska Native villages to which there are no roads, to rural Wyoming, Idaho, Montana, and Washington). In fact, that is one of the things about which I'm most excited. I, like Iwy, want to do many of my clinical rotations at sites all around the WWAMI region.

With that being said, I understand your difficult choice. I interviewed at Mayo, and I thought that if I got in, that Mayo would be the only place I would accept over UDub. I like the small class size. It is in STARK contrast to UDub. In the first year, we have 100 students, and it jumps to 180 the second year. In terms of PRE-CLINICAL years, I'd prefer Mayo. But in terms of clinical years, I'd prefer UDub. At the end of the day, what I care about is being a great doctor. I will learn what I need to know at any medical school during the first two years. I won't see most of my classmates third and forth years. So I guess knowing what I know now, I would take UDub regardless of wherever else I was accepted. I'm super happy to be here...

I hope that helps.