Letters of Recommendation? How many is too many?

[markelle]

Hello Everyone,


I am thinking about applying this application cycle after getting an "OK" from my University's Health Professions Advising Office.

Right now I am filling out application for my University's Committee letter, which has a deadline March 1st.
I am concerned how many letters to even ask for because I feel like I have many options

I have two science professors, who have gotten to see me excel for the past two years. I did well in both of their courses ( A/A+), both PhD professors. One of these professors is the advisor of the club I am president of, and has been my lecturer for 3 of my science courses. The second professor I have taken two sciences course with and two sciences lab's with. I also have a non-science professor that would write me a great letter. As well as an MD I work for and another from my PI, who published me as co-author.
This already makes 5 letters, not including the one who oversee's my volunteerism/ community service, my part-time job I have kept for almost 3 years, and the committee letter.
so thats 8 letters. I heard having too many is an annoying/bad thing for admissions com.

This is Feb. I need to be asking for letters so they can be ready by June/May.

In my situation which letters should I actually use? Or would all 8 of them be just fine?

Thank you in advance!

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[gyngyn]

Your school's committee letter is sufficient, desirable and not excessive.
I know of no school that requests (or desires) more LoE's if a committee letter is available.

 

[BeMD13]

I would not do more than 5. If you have access to MSAR (mine expired) some even list the limits. It's usually between 3-5

 

[Fancy_Feast]

Your school's committee letter is sufficient, desirable and not excessive.
I know of no school that requests (or desires) more LoE's if a committee letter is available.

The University of Utah does not accecpt a committee letter, FYI

 

[gyngyn]

The University of Utah does not accecpt a committee letter, FYI

Good to know, thanks!
Aren't they also one of the places that wants a clinical letter?

 

[caffeinemia]

When I applied it was 3-5.

 

[Lawpy]

Your school's committee letter is sufficient, desirable and not excessive.
I know of no school that requests (or desires) more LoE's if a committee letter is available.

The University of Utah does not accecpt a committee letter, FYI

this is very strange. any explanation as to why? what other medical schools refuse to accept committee letters? or is Utah the only one?

 

[Fancy_Feast]

Good to know, thanks!
Aren't they also one of the places that wants a clinical letter?

http://medicine.utah.edu/students/programs/md/admissions/secondary-materials.php
-science professor
-professor
-community service or patient exposure supervisor
-other supervisor or research supervisor
The required 4 is actually an improvement over the 6 they used to require!

 

[starspells]

Your school's committee letter is sufficient, desirable and not excessive.
I know of no school that requests (or desires) more LoE's if a committee letter is available.

https://med.ucf.edu/admissions/admissions-process/letters-of-recommendation/

• Traditional Applicant – an applicant who will be entering the M.D. program directly from a bachelor’s degree program with less than a one year break:
  • three individual faculty letters – two letters from basic science faculty, and one from a non-science faculty member, or one Pre-Med/Pre-Professional Composite Committee Letter
  • two character letters – these letters should be from those who can tell us about “who” you are. Authors may be those who have been your supervisor, friend, neighbor, someone you have volunteered with or shadowed, someone from an organization or club that you belong to, clergy, etc. One of these two letters may be from an academic peer.

(I'm surprised they welcome letters from friends or neighbors...)

http://medicine.arizona.edu/admissions/application-process/letters

Letters of recommendation options:
Option 1

• 1 letter from a physician or clinical sulpervisor
• 2 letters from other professionals

Option 2

• 1 letter from a physician or clinical supervisor
• 1 letter packet/ committee packet

https://oakland.edu/medicine/admissions/admissions-process-and-requirements/

Applicants should submit a minimum of three letters of recommendation (maximum of five). If your premedical advising office provides a committee letter compiling feedback from multiple sources, this letter will count as two of your three required letters of recommendation. All letters should be submitted through AMCAS Letters of Evaluation/Recommendation Service.


There may be others but these are the ones that I'm aware require other letters in addition to the committee letter.

 

[cloudstrife2054]

The University of Utah does not accecpt a committee letter, FYI

Not true. A committee letter cannot substitute for normal letters like most, but it can still be used nonetheless. A committee letter usually, if not always translate to committee packet. That means all letters are forwarded to your school's health professions office and are arranged into a letter packet, combined with the committee letter to make a committee packet. My school asks for a certain number of shadowing hours plus a letter from a health professional to get a committee letter, so they ensure you already have a strong let

You can use up to 10 letters if you want. The thing with letter packet and committee packets is they arrange it so the strongest letters are on top. So if say you have 10 letters and a school requires 3-5, usually it means the top 3-5 are read, the rest are skimmed. That's my understanding at least. But with individual letters, they are read randomly. I'm not applying for quite a while, but I made a list of potential letter writers based on our interactions. If I believe they can write me a strong letter writer, they go on my list.

 

[Fancy_Feast]

Not true. A committee letter cannot substitute for normal letters like most, but it can still be used nonetheless. A committee letter usually, if not always translate to committee packet. That means all letters are forwarded to your school's health professions office and are arranged into a letter packet, combined with the committee letter to make a committee packet. My school asks for a certain number of shadowing hours plus a letter from a health professional to get a committee letter, so they ensure you already have a strong let

You can use up to 10 letters if you want. The thing with letter packet and committee packets is they arrange it so the strongest letters are on top. So if say you have 10 letters and a school requires 3-5, usually it means the top 3-5 are read, the rest are skimmed. That's my understanding at least. But with individual letters, they are read randomly. I'm not applying for quite a while, but I made a list of potential letter writers based on our interactions. If I believe they can write me a strong letter writer, they go on my list.

From their website: "A committee letter cannot be used to fulfill any of the required letters."

You need to ask your letter writers to submit individual letters to AMCAS in addition to submitting them to your committee.

 

[cloudstrife2054]

From their website: "A committee letter cannot be used to fulfill any of the required letters."

You need to ask your letter writers to submit individual letters to AMCAS in addition to submitting them to your committee.

It means you can submit a committee letter in addition to them. Also, a committee letter also translate to committee packet, meaning it holds all of your letters in addition to the committee letter. You don't need to do individual letters, they can be a part of your committee packet. They will simply look through your packet to ensure you have letters from the required sources.

 

[cke11]

I did a committee letter when I graduated this past May, but am not applying until this upcoming cycle. Is it okay to do that or are committee letters only used when you apply straight from college?

 

[cloudstrife2054]

I did a committee letter when I graduated this past May, but am not applying until this upcoming cycle. Is it okay to do that or are committee letters only used when you apply straight from college?

According to my sources, many schools discard letters older than a year. My advice ask your letter writers to resubmit their letters with the new date.

 

[Fancy_Feast]

It means you can submit a committee letter in addition to them. Also, a committee letter also translate to committee packet, meaning it holds all of your letters in addition to the committee letter. You don't need to do individual letters, they can be a part of your committee packet. They will simply look through your packet to ensure you have letters from the required sources.

I don't think this is correct, but feel free to check with them when you apply I simply had my letter writers submit through AMCAS as well as to my committee so that I could avoid any confusion like this and tailor my letters to individual schools. It worked for me--the U gave me a II.

 

[kraskadva]

I don't think this is correct, but feel free to check with them when you apply I simply had my letter writers submit through AMCAS as well as to my committee so that I could avoid any confusion like this and tailor my letters to individual schools. It worked for me--the U gave me a II.

And I had all 7 of my letters sent to the committee office, where they were put in a single packet, with the committee cover letter. That single packet was the only "letter entry" I had in AMCAS and I sent it to all schools.
Worked out just fine for me.

 

[Fancy_Feast]

And I had all 7 of my letters sent to the committee office, where they were put in a single packet, with the committee cover letter. That single packet was the only "letter entry" I had in AMCAS and I sent it to all schools.
Worked out just fine for me.

I guess it depends on your school! My school only allowed me to submit three letters that were turned into a committee letter, not a packet, so that wasn't a viable option for me

 

[kraskadva]

I guess it depends on your school! My school only allowed me to submit three letters that were turned into a committee letter, not a packet, so that wasn't a viable option for me

Well that's fine, and I'm glad it worked out for you, but don't mistake your university's committee regulations for the AMCAS rules, as they're apparently different.

 

[Fancy_Feast]

Well that's fine, and I'm glad it worked out for you, but don't mistake your university's committee regulations for the AMCAS rules, as they're apparently different.

I'm sorry, I don't understand...I was talking about one specific university's rules for letters, not all of them. I think we're having a miscommunication.

 

[efle]

Make sure to triple check that what your university prehealth committee writes for you really is a Committee Evaluation/Letter. I went into this cycle thinking I had one and later found out nope, the letter and packet that prehealth sends out for you here is not a committee letter.

 

[kraskadva]

I'm sorry, I don't understand...I was talking about one specific university's rules for letters, not all of them. I think we're having a miscommunication.

Perhaps there is a miscommunication. I think the problem may be everyone's generic use of "school" and "letters".
To me OP seemed confused about what constitutes a "letter" vs a "committee letter/packet", and then in the rest of the thread, folks aren't necessarily being clear about their UG committee ("my school") letter requirements, which often vary widely, versus the AMCAS (med "school") requirements, which are published and uniform, bar a few oddball med schools.
@gonnif had a good clarification, but I didn't realize until I scrolled back just now that you were talking about U Utah med school requirements, and not your undergrad committee requirements.

For the typical applicant though, a committee letter packet submitted by their UG committee will suffice for all (or most) med schools and can have multiple letters included, so there's often no need to have letters writers submit to AMCAS as well.

 

[Fancy_Feast]

Perhaps there is a miscommunication. I think the problem may be everyone's generic use of "school" and "letters".
To me OP seemed confused about what constitutes a "letter" vs a "committee letter/packet", and then in the rest of the thread, folks aren't necessarily being clear about their UG committee ("my school") letter requirements, which often vary widely, versus the AMCAS (med "school") requirements, which are published and uniform, bar a few oddball med schools.
@gonnif had a good clarification, but I didn't realize until I scrolled back just now that you were talking about U Utah med school requirements, and not your undergrad committee requirements.

For the typical applicant though, a committee letter packet submitted by their UG committee will suffice for all (or most) med schools and can have multiple letters included, so there's often no need to have letters writers submit to AMCAS as well.

For sure! Yep, I was just pointing out that it's a good idea to understand the letter requirements of all the schools you're applying to so you can get your ducks in a row

 

[Chromium Surfer]

And I had all 7 of my letters sent to the committee office, where they were put in a single packet, with the committee cover letter. That single packet was the only "letter entry" I had in AMCAS and I sent it to all schools.
Worked out just fine for me.

Just to follow up with you on this post, because I will be in this exact same position. Did your school write you a committee letter that also had an evaluation of you by the committee, or just organized your letters into a letter packet? My school does a letter packet, but does not write an evaluation of you.

Also @gyngyn my school tells us to inform them of the order we want the letters uploaded in the single file. Are all the letters in a letter packet typically read if there are more than 5, or are only the first 3-5 read? I was thinking of having my strongest letters at the beginning and the end, and then mixing and matching the order in a way that varied the order so it was not two science or two research letters in a row. Is this a good strategy or would you recommend just putting all the strongest letters at the front, or something different?

 

[gyngyn]

Just to follow up with you on this post, because I will be in this exact same position. Did your school write you a committee letter that also had an evaluation of you by the committee, or just organized your letters into a letter packet? My school does a letter packet, but does not write an evaluation of you.

Also @gyngyn my school tells us to inform them of the order we want the letters uploaded in the single file. Are all the letters in a letter packet typically read if there are more than 5, or are only the first 3-5 read? I was thinking of having my strongest letters at the beginning and the end, and then mixing and matching the order in a way that varied the order so it was not two science or two research letters in a row. Is this a good strategy or would you recommend just putting all the strongest letters at the front, or something different?

All letters must be read. Thus, the common practice of limiting the number!

 

[efle]

Letter Packet (only cover letter) ... is acceptable by virtually all medical schools

My experience has been that this is not accepted in lieu of X,Y,Z required letter writers by most schools. That is, if you go the Letter Packet + Cover route, that packet has to contain letters meeting all the individual letter requirements.

 

[mistafab]

Number of LOR's is a school by school thing OP. You need to look at what each school you are applying to needs. Having more than you need doesn't hurt since you can choose which ones go to what schools when applying.

Best of luck.

 

[efle]

Which schools did you specifically have issues with this?

The schools never told me if my letters failed to meet their reqs, it was reading more into my prehealth committee descriptions that I caught that it was a different type of thing. E.g. "By the time your letters of recommendation have been received, you should feel confident that your materials represent you well. Our office will be using this information and the information we gather from your letters of recommendation to compose a cover letter on your behalf. This is not a committee letter in AMCAS terms."

You think for schools that say "Committee Letter or individual letters from XYZ" the packet+cover might actually have counted as the former? That's totally possible, and maybe I just happened not to get any love in the cycle from places asking for letters I lacked.

 

[Chromium Surfer]

When you are getting letters, they fall into two categories

Committee Letter (with evaluation) or Letter Packet (only cover letter), where you follow the requirements of the UG institution and it is acceptable by virtually all medical schools
OR
Individual Letters , where you follow the requirements of each individual medical school

**The number of letters in a committee letter or letter packet is immaterial, It is not under the requirements of indivdual letters.
**The vast majority of medical schools require, recommend, or prefer committee letters. I would say that letter packets are treated a bit more like committee letters rather than indivdual letters.
**My recommendation is no more than 4 to 6 letters as more can be interpreted in various negative ways by an adcom
---Are just sending more of the same because you are arrogant, showing off, egoistical? Doesnt the rest of your app say that?
---Are you sending more because you have a weakness in your app you are trying to overcome or hide?
Hence, like everything else in an applicant, adcoms want to see balance.


Section 6 of the AMCAS® application: Letters of Evaluation
Letter Types

AMCAS accepts three different types of letters. Each letter type is equivalent to one letter entry.
Committee Letter: A letter authored by a pre-health committee or pre-health advisor and intended to represent your institution’s evaluation of you. A Committee Letter may or may not include additional letters written in support of your application. This is sometimes called a Composite Letter.
Letter Packet: A packet or set of letters assembled and distributed by your institution, often by the institution’s career center. A Letter Packet may include a cover sheet from your pre-health committee or advisor. However, unlike to a Committee Letter, a Letter Packet does not include an evaluative letter from your pre-health committee or advisor.
Individual Letter: A letter written by, and representing, a single letter author. If you have already included an Individual Letter within either a Committee Letter or a Letter Packet, do not add a separate entry for that letter.

Thanks gonnif! I was clear on the on the differences between letters but I was unaware that having more than 6 letters could be an issue.

As it stands now I have 7 letter writers from distinct areas who could speak about different attributes and skills I have from observable experience.

The only letter writer that I won't have known for over a year will be the PI from a summer program at a "top 5" med school I will be completing this summer. ( I am applying next cycle and am only set on this letter because my state school requires an MD letter)

In my case is 7 letters still bad, even if they all are unique from each other and from longitudinal (1-3 year) relationships?

 

[efle]

That is a composite letter: it is essentially a summary with highlights from all the other letters. Example

Candidate "Elfe" has received letters from 6 professors including, .....

Professor X of chemistry said "was an excellent student" and "would recommended him with reservation"
Professor Y of Biology said "was active in class, engaged lively in discussions, and was a pleasure to have have in my class"

I dont think your letters did you in

I hope you are right, the n is small enough that it could be coincidence all the places to interview me were the ones with the loosest letter requirements (and didn't ask for 2 profs or a nonscience prof)

 

[Chromium Surfer]

I said I recommend 4 to 6. even if you gave long relationships with all of these, are they repeating the same thing? You wont get rejected for having too many really great letters especially if the rest of your record is great

Primarily the professors I think that could potentially cause repetition would be my 2 science professors. I have a really good relationship with one of them, and the other professor was not as strong but there is an interesting distincticd story related to my performance in class and I went to his office hours enough that he knows me and he said he would be happy to write me a letter when I asked him.

The other 5 letters are professors, or professionals from very different backgrounds and the work I completed for these individuals where very different. The only other potential area of repetition would be the two separate PI's I worked with except one PI will be an MD and the other will be a social science professor and the research I do will be quite different

I plan on discussing the AMCAS letter guidelines with them as well. If it was up to me I would cut the second science professor letter but our prehealth committee and most schools have that 2 science prof requirement.

At worst I would say that none of the 7 letters would be generic and would all be personal with minimal overlap that I outlined above. At best I would say that each letter would complement my app and bring a unique perspective and insight into me as an individual.

Based on my worst case scenario and your lengthy experience with admissions would you say it would be wise to go ahead with the 7 or is it more important to cut out one letter to eradicate the potential of any negative implicit impressions of my app?

 

[gyngyn]

Primarily the professors I think that could potentially cause repetition would be my 2 science professors. I have a really good relationship with one of them, and the other professor was not as strong but there is an interesting distincticd story related to my performance in class and I went to his office hours enough that he knows me and he said he would be happy to write me a letter when I asked him.

The other 5 letters are professors, or professionals from very different backgrounds and the work I completed for these individuals where very different. The only other potential area of repetition would be the two separate PI's I worked with except one PI will be an MD and the other will be a social science professor and the research I do will be quite different

I plan on discussing the AMCAS letter guidelines with them as well. If it was up to me I would cut the second science professor letter but our prehealth committee and most schools have that 2 science prof requirement.

At worst I would say that none of the 7 letters would be generic and would all be personal with minimal overlap that I outlined above. At best I would say that each letter would complement my app and bring a unique perspective and insight into me as an individual.

Based on my worst case scenario and your lengthy experience with admissions would you say it would be wise to go ahead with the 7 or is it more important to cut out one letter to eradicate the potential of any negative implicit impressions of my app?

Nobody wants to read 7 letters.

 

[Chromium Surfer]

Nobody wants to read 7 letters.

Duly noted, thank you!

 

[Goro]

Ditto this. More =/= better.

Nobody wants to read 7 letters.

 

[kraskadva]

Just to follow up with you on this post, because I will be in this exact same position. Did your school write you a committee letter that also had an evaluation of you by the committee, or just organized your letters into a letter packet? My school does a letter packet, but does not write an evaluation of you.

Also @gyngyn my school tells us to inform them of the order we want the letters uploaded in the single file. Are all the letters in a letter packet typically read if there are more than 5, or are only the first 3-5 read? I was thinking of having my strongest letters at the beginning and the end, and then mixing and matching the order in a way that varied the order so it was not two science or two research letters in a row. Is this a good strategy or would you recommend just putting all the strongest letters at the front, or something different?

YMMV, but "committee" is a loose term at my school. There's really just the one guy, but he takes excerpts of all the letters and works them into a synthesis/committee eval cover letter. I also got to choose the order that the letters would be included in the packet.
You should ask your committee how they do it and talk to the actual person writing the letter if possible. Because your committee may not work the same way as my 'committee'.

However they do it though, there are only 3 letter options in AMCAS: single letter, committee letter, and letter packet. And you pick which one it is and give them the cover form to send it in.

All letters must be read. Thus, the common practice of limiting the number!

Nobody wants to read 7 letters.

Ditto this. More =/= better.

^I knew all this, and chose to go with 7 letters anyway. Perhaps not the kindest, but it worked okay for me. Any more than that though would just be counterproductive overkill.
However, I did order the letters in the packet to have the most impactful ones first, because even if they read all of them, reader's fatigue is still a thing.

 

[markelle]

Hello, thank you for youre resposnes!

So basically my school uses VeCollect. My writers upload to VeCollect and from VeCollect it goes to where it needs to go.
I have chosen to utilize 2 science, 1 non-science, a clinical, and research and the comitte letter.

I have one minor question, and I think I have seen "Goro" answer it before on another thread. If I am questioning the positivity/negativity of a letter from a writer, is it best not to use it?
I have gotten into a couple conflicts with one of my writers within the past month. This person has said my behavior was disrespectful, has made her frustrated and that I had a "flipant" attitude. However I have know this professor for 4 semesters, so 2 conflicts shouldn't be that bad?? I did well in all her classes, consistently scoring the highest on all exams, we had a great relationship and I have taken 3 classes with her. She is also the advisor for the club I am president of. Just this past month idk why we have conflicts. I don't I want to risk the chance, but I want a 2nd opinion. I already have 3 other potential professors to write the science letter, but I kinda want her letter bc she has over saw me more. What should I do ?

 

[calimed2017]

honestly it depends on your career office at your institutions. for us, they told us a MAX of 6 letters

 

[markelle]

It is best not to use it. Reduce risk in med school application

Thank you, I have already sent a request asking for her not to write it.
I will contact other letter writers, luckily it still early!