Letters of Recommendations

[Rattler2012]

Hello,
I was wondering for the letters of recommendation..Do you ask the recommender to send it back to you (since I am trying to apply to at least 4 programs) or does the recommender have to send them out individually to the actual programs?

Also would asking a pharmacist (from a retail chain) that I've worked with for a few years help my chances of getting into a clinical program or should I just stick with my clerkship preceptors?

Thank you!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Hello,
I was wondering for the letters of recommendation..Do you ask the recommender to send it back to you (since I am trying to apply to at least 4 programs) or does the recommender have to send them out individually to the actual programs?

Also would asking a pharmacist (from a retail chain) that I've worked with for a few years help my chances of getting into a clinical program or should I just stick with my clerkship preceptors?

Thank you!

1. Site specific. You need to clarify with where you are applying. Some want everything in one package from you, others want thing sent directly from the source separately.

2. if you have several years of work experience with one, he better be on the list, or we will be wondering why he didn't write you one.

 

[bacillus1]

What if I worked at the same retail pharmacy for 3.5 years, but didn't want to get an LOR from there because the current pharmacy manager has only been there for a year, with me not really working that much nowadays? Would this still be frowned upon? I don't want to ask the other pharmacist either because she told me to just write an LOR myself and have her sign it, and I don't want to do that because I don't think I can describe myself well from others' point of view.

 

[KARM12]

I don't agree that you have to use a letter from an employer unless it is required.

I worked for retail for 3 yrs and was a pharmacist at the same store, but chose not to use the pharmacy manager to write a LOR. I didn't feel that they could say much as to my clinical skills.

Being part of a reisdency recruitment committee, I found that most of the letters from a retail pharmacist were not as strongly written as those from professors or preceptors.

 

[xiphoid2010]

I don't agree that you have to use a letter from an employer unless it is required.

The thing is, the OP asked whether to go with his/her boss of several years vs. clerkship preceptors.

Clerkship preceptor only knows the person a month. While we weigh them, they don't weigh as heavily as those who really know the person. I would feel something is fishy if all 3 letters are coming from rotations while the CV shows several years of working experience.

 

[xiphoid2010]

What if I worked at the same retail pharmacy for 3.5 years, but didn't want to get an LOR from there because the current pharmacy manager has only been there for a year, with me not really working that much nowadays? Would this still be frowned upon? I don't want to ask the other pharmacist either because she told me to just write an LOR myself and have her sign it, and I don't want to do that because I don't think I can describe myself well from others' point of view.

This happened to me at my retail internship site. Luckily, I had hospital internship experience as well and better for LOR anyway, so the loss no big deal.

Here is an idea, on CV, you have to list all the internships, and you have to list your preceptors as a part of that. So just document 2 different preceptors and list their time frame. This way, if you don't get an LOR from there, it's easily explained and won't cause any suspicion.

 

[bacillus1]

This happened to me at my retail internship site. Luckily, I had hospital internship experience as well and better for LOR anyway, so the loss no big deal.

Here is an idea, on CV, you have to list all the internships, and you have to list your preceptors as a part of that. So just document 2 different preceptors and list their time frame. This way, if you don't get an LOR from there, it's easily explained and won't cause any suspicion.

Well I officially have the same preceptor and she used to be pharmacy manager for my store, but I haven't seen her in a whule because she is now a floater.

 

[xiphoid2010]

Well I officially have the same preceptor and she used to be pharmacy manager for my store, but I haven't seen her in a whule because she is now a floater.

Do a change of preceptor. I don't know which state you are in, but my state allowed change of preceptor as long as the new preceptor agree and sign the form. You can do a change now, and so you can explain why you can't get a LOR from the old.

 

[Dalteparin]

Do a change of preceptor. I don't know which state you are in, but my state allowed change of preceptor as long as the new preceptor agree and sign the form. You can do a change now, and so you can explain why you can't get a LOR from the old.

The state may allow it but the school may not. My alma mater told us that our rotations were set in stone when we received our schedules, and no changes could be made without a very grave reason.

 

[bacillus1]

Do a change of preceptor. I don't know which state you are in, but my state allowed change of preceptor as long as the new preceptor agree and sign the form. You can do a change now, and so you can explain why you can't get a LOR from the old.

OK let's say I don't want to, as I don't think they'll write as good of an LOR as some of my preceptors and professors, as I really don't exhibit any clinical skills at work. I hope that's still fine and I can get interviews at OK places.

 

[xiphoid2010]

OK let's say I don't want to, as I don't think they'll write as good of an LOR as some of my preceptors and professors, as I really don't exhibit any clinical skills at work. I hope that's still fine and I can get interviews at OK places.

Nothing stops you from getting LOR from other sources. 1 of 3 comes from there is perfectly fine. We all can understand a student might really strike it off with a preceptor on rotation. But try to limit it to 1. The others should come from people who knows you longer and in more depth.

When I look at candidates, if LORs are equally positive, then hospital internship preceptor > research preceptor > class professor = retail preceptor > rotation preceptor. Notice the rotation comes in last, because I don't believe 1 month is enough to get to know someone.

To me, not getting one from someone you worked for years would raise an eyebrow unless there is a good explanation. Granted, retail is not going to be as clinical, but that in itself is not a good explanation. Why were you not able demonstrate your clinical skill at work after all these years? Even in the retail part of my internship, I always explained what was learned in school while at work, to demonstrate that I had a deep understanding of the material (and help to refresh preceptor's memory). Counseling, detecting drug interactions, making physician calls to make recommendations are all places you can demonstrate your skills to your preceptor.

But others may well review applications very differently than me, so don't freak out. Also keep in mind that it really boils down to out-competing against other students. At that stage of reviewing applications, our job is to weed out enough applicants to match the interview slots available. Everything doesn't have to be perfect, just as long as you beat out enough of the weaker peers, you will get the interview.

 

[xiphoid2010]

The state may allow it but the school may not. My alma mater told us that our rotations were set in stone when we received our schedules, and no changes could be made without a very grave reason.

You misunderstood. I was talking about a change of preceptor for his retail internship. If the old preceptor has moved on, he can do a change of preceptor.

In fact some states require it, as you need to have internship preceptor sign off each year on the number of hours you worked as an intern to get the internship credit.

 

[Dalteparin]

You misunderstood. I was talking about a change of preceptor for his retail internship. If the old preceptor has moved on, he can do a change of preceptor.

In fact some states require it, as you need to have internship preceptor sign off each year on the number of hours you worked as an intern to get the internship credit.

Sorry about that. I never thought of the pharmacists who I worked as with my "preceptors;" they were just my bosses.

 

[KARM12]

The thing is, the OP asked whether to go with his/her boss of several years vs. clerkship preceptors.

Clerkship preceptor only knows the person a month. While we weigh them, they don't weigh as heavily as those who really know the person. I would feel something is fishy if all 3 letters are coming from rotations while the CV shows several years of working experience.

I thought your place does not have a residency program?

I still don't agree with this...I think it is fine if someone wants to get a letter from their boss. I would not think anything of it if they chose not to. I do think it is important to have people that can attest to you ability as a pharmacist. You don't have to have all preceptors. I chose to use a faculty member, who was not my preceptor, write a letter because we had worked on a project together.


My letters were:
-Professor I worked on a project with
-Professor that I also did a clinical rotation with
-Preceptor for a clinical rotation

I worked at the same retail site for 3+ yrs (both as an intern and a pharmacist) and did not ask my boss for a letter of rec. I had no problems getting interviews at top programs.

 

[xiphoid2010]

I thought your place does not have a residency program?

I still don't agree with this...I think it is fine if someone wants to get a letter from their boss. I would not think anything of it if they chose not to. I do think it is important to have people that can attest to you ability as a pharmacist. You don't have to have all preceptors. I chose to use a faculty member, who was not my preceptor, write a letter because we had worked on a project together.


My letters were:
-Professor I worked on a project with
-Professor that I also did a clinical rotation with
-Preceptor for a clinical rotation

I worked at the same retail site for 3+ yrs (both as an intern and a pharmacist) and did not ask my boss for a letter of rec. I had no problems getting interviews at top programs.

For LOR I asked:

• Hospital internship preceptor
• My boss at Pfizer
• Rho chi adviser who happened to be the ID professor
• 2 rotation preceptors

Had to have more than 3 sources due to different sites asking for different sources, but never used more than 1 rotation LOR out of 3 letters. Got interview offers 7 out of 7, and matched with 1st choice.

While my new job site does not have a residency, my residency site does take 4 residents a year and have been for over 15 years. We residents were given equal weight in votes during each of the selections process. Anyway, being the overly analytical one in the group, my RDP asked me to do a statistical analysis on which part of the matrix was the most predictive of final ranking order. After analyzing all 50+ applications, the results were interesting.

While the total score (application packet + interview) was not predictive of the ranking of all candidates, it was highly correlated with the top 10 rankings (r > 0.83). And if you eliminated the application package scores, the interview scores alone were almost as strongly correlated for the top 10, but again not if including all candidates. What's more, of the interview scores, the subjective impression scores were not correlated, the performance based interview questions were only moderated correlated. At any rate, in the end the candidates needs to score in the top 10, after that everybody just seemed to stop caring and the ranking from 11 to 30 were pretty much random.

 

[Pharmy2012]

Nothing stops you from getting LOR from other sources. 1 of 3 comes from there is perfectly fine. We all can understand a student might really strike it off with a preceptor on rotation. But try to limit it to 1. The others should come from people who knows you longer and in more depth.

When I look at candidates, if LORs are equally positive, then hospital internship preceptor > research preceptor > class professor = retail preceptor > rotation preceptor. Notice the rotation comes in last, because I don't believe 1 month is enough to get to know someone.

To me, not getting one from someone you worked for years would raise an eyebrow unless there is a good explanation. Granted, retail is not going to be as clinical, but that in itself is not a good explanation. Why were you not able demonstrate your clinical skill at work after all these years? Even in the retail part of my internship, I always explained what was learned in school while at work, to demonstrate that I had a deep understanding of the material (and help to refresh preceptor's memory). Counseling, detecting drug interactions, making physician calls to make recommendations are all places you can demonstrate your skills to your preceptor.

But others may well review applications very differently than me, so don't freak out. Also keep in mind that it really boils down to out-competing against other students. At that stage of reviewing applications, our job is to weed out enough applicants to match the interview slots available. Everything doesn't have to be perfect, just as long as you beat out enough of the weaker peers, you will get the interview.

I have worked for a small rural drug company for the last 4 years and since starting pharmacy school have only picked up shifts here and there. I have worked for Walgreens for the last 3+ years and intend on having my preceptor/PharmD from there write me a letter, but what about the other who I haven't worked for recently but still keep in contact with and know very well (we are basically like family)?

I was planning on having at least 2 LOR come from preceptors from rotations who I feel got to know me and my personal skills very deeply, despite only knowing them for 5 weeks. I didn't do any in depth projects with professors where I would feel comfortable asking them for and LOR. Is this going to look bad if I don't have ANY from a professor?? What about if I have more than 1 from a rotation preceptor?

Thanks for the help!

 

[xiphoid2010]

I have worked for a small rural drug company for the last 4 years and since starting pharmacy school have only picked up shifts here and there. I have worked for Walgreens for the last 3+ years and intend on having my preceptor/PharmD from there write me a letter, but what about the other who I haven't worked for recently but still keep in contact with and know very well (we are basically like family)?

You can have the old one write. The duration of employment shows up on the CV but the number of hours you work each week doesn't. Just don't lie. I had my boss as Pfizer write a LOR, I had worked for him for 8 years, but not a single day during pharmacy school. But the length, how well he knows me, and the relevance of research, made it one of the strongest LOR I had. The chief at my VA residency site actually was telling me how impressed she was by it 9 months after she read it, and she still remembered what it said!

I was planning on having at least 2 LOR come from preceptors from rotations who I feel got to know me and my personal skills very deeply, despite only knowing them for 5 weeks. I didn't do any in depth projects with professors where I would feel comfortable asking them for and LOR. Is this going to look bad if I don't have ANY from a professor?? What about if I have more than 1 from a rotation preceptor?

Thanks for the help!

The key is that any LOR writer needs to really know you. A good LOR writer provide actual examples/proof of how you demonstrated a particular quality. A professor that can only write a really generic letter because he only knows you by looking up your grades is not a good person to go to. It would be better if you had got to know one doing projects for or was an adviser of an organization that you were involved in. Push comes to shove, the strength of the LOR trumps the status of the person who is writing it. And there are no hard and fast rules on exact numbers to follow. I can only give you what worked for me and what I preferred when reviewing applications.

 

[Tired farmer]

Back to the question about where they send it, most sites I'm checking dont really say one way or the other, just that letters are required, with a mailing address.

Is the best bet to email the program to ask, or should it be obvious at the site and I'm just missing it?

Also, is the best thing to do give the person writing you the letter that ASHP evaluation form (even if its not explicitly on the program's website), or are they expected to write a free text response to everyone?

Thanks!

 

[InternDoc]

what do you guys think letter from the Dean ?

 

[KARM12]

what do you guys think letter from the Dean ?

If the Dean knows you personally, I would go for it. If it is just going to be a generic letter, skip it.