Licensure Question: Can I count hours training a private practice?

[PsychPhDMama]

Hi Folks, I'm a 3rd year counseling psych PhD student in Massachusetts. I have completed my prac and advanced prac at official training sites. I have an opportunity to train with an excellent psychologist in private practice. Am I able to count *private practice* training hours towards licensure? He is able to have a formal relationship w/me w/a contract, supervise me 2 hrs/wk per 16hrs of training, and make me an unpaid employee (all of which meet MA licensure requirements). The licensure documentation does not clearly address training in private practice or training that takes place after advanced prac and before internship. I am not leaving MA for internship, not doing a postdoc (not required in MA), and going straight into private practice. I'm eager for these hours so I can hit the ground running when done w/internship. Thanks in advance!

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[beginner2011]

Hi Folks, I'm a 3rd year counseling psych PhD student in Massachusetts. I have completed my prac and advanced prac at official training sites. I now have an opportunity to train with an excellent psychologist in private practice. Am I able to count these hours towards licensure? He is able to supervise me 2 hrs/wk per 16hrs of training and make me an unpaid employee, which meet MA licensure requirements. Thanks in advance!

You may want to check in about other states' licensure requirements. I believe 8:1 is on the more minimal end of supervision for most states' requirements. Personally, I'd encourage you to check in with your DCT to get their feedback and consent, although I'm not sure that's formally required.

 

[PsychPhDMama]

You may want to check in about other states' licensure requirements. I believe 8:1 is on the more minimal end of supervision for most states' requirements. Personally, I'd encourage you to check in with your DCT to get their feedback and consent, although I'm not sure that's formally required.

Thanks so much! 1:8 meets MA requirements. I'm unclear about whether or not I ca count hours training in a private practice.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Thanks so much! 1:8 meets MA requirements. I'm unclear about whether or not I ca count hours training in a private practice.

I can't imagine why you wouldn't be able to count those hours because of the setting location, assuming the supervision required by the state is met (hours, license of supervisee, etc.). HOWEVER, the best practice in this case and in all cases where you are dealing with license issues is to contact your board directly if you are unable to find answers on their website.

 

[ClinicalABA]

In MA, supervised advanced practicum must occur in a "Health Service Setting." There is a checklist to determine if a setting meets this requirement on the MA psych licensure website (https://www.mass.gov/media/2288171/download). A private practice can and probably should meet those requirements. Show that form to any prospective supervisor before signing on, as they will have to complete it when you later apply for licensure. You don't want any surprises down the road.

 

[foreverbull]

So this would be a practicum site? Has it not been approved by your doctoral program? Most programs have a pre-approved/vetted list of practicum sites.

Finding a new site would require you to check with your clinical training director of the program, so I’d check there first.

 

[mdwpsyd]

So this would be a practicum site? Has it not been approved by your doctoral program? Most programs have a pre-approved/vetted list of practicum sites.

Finding a new site would require you to check with your clinical training director of the program, so I’d check there first.

Good point. Licensing agencies and boards review postdoctoral supervised experience to be sure. But I am not familiar with state licensing agencies and boards requiring specific types of practicum training for APA-accredited PhD or PsyD programs.

 

[PsychPhDMama]

Thank you everyone. The answer remains a mystery. If it was postdoc training experience, the hours would count towards licensure. Because it is after advanced prac and before internship, I'm still unclear. The MA licensure documents outline the terms of a prac and a healthcare setting, but do not specifically address this issue. I have asked many people and no one knows. The hours do count when applying to internship, which is irrelevant for me as I already have enough hours to apply. I've emailed the board 5x in the past month with no reply. It also makes me wonder if I can count the clinical work I completed within my research for licensure.

 

[szymk1sm]

Wouldn't this still be considered a predoctoral practicum with hours counted towards internship but not towards licensure?

Many graduate programs allow (or encourage) you to complete several advanced practica, which I would think this falls under...

 

[ClinicalABA]

Thank you everyone. The answer remains a mystery. If it was postdoc training experience, the hours would count towards licensure. Because it is after advanced prac and before internship, I'm still unclear. The MA licensure documents outline the terms of a prac and a healthcare setting, but do not specifically address this issue. I have asked many people and no one knows. The hours do count when applying to internship, which is irrelevant for me as I already have enough hours to apply. I've emailed the board 5x in the past month with no reply. It also makes me wonder if I can count the clinical work I completed within my research for licensure.

I'm not sure where the confusion is. If it meets the supervisory requirements and comes after 2 years of graduate training but before internship (and internship criteria are defined in the regs), then it's an "advanced practica". It clearly wouldn't meet criteria for internship, but as long as hours, supervision, and duties pan out, why wouldn't it be advanced practicum? If you already have all advanced prac hours, then it wouldn't count for anything else (though still could be a great experience)

 

[psych.meout]

Thank you everyone. The answer remains a mystery. If it was postdoc training experience, the hours would count towards licensure. Because it is after advanced prac and before internship, I'm still unclear. The MA licensure documents outline the terms of a prac and a healthcare setting, but do not specifically address this issue. I have asked many people and no one knows.

If you have not completed internship, you cannot count any hours towards licensure, because they have to be postdoctoral and therefore come after you have your doctorate. It appears you haven't even applied for internship yet, so it's even clearer, you cannot count these hours towards licensure.

The hours do count when applying to internship, which is irrelevant for me as I already have enough hours to apply. I've emailed the board 5x in the past month with no reply. It also makes me wonder if I can count the clinical work I completed within my research for licensure.

It doesn't matter if you have enough hours to meet the minimum for internships at which you would like to apply. Your clinical hours, whether from practica or research, are still just counting towards internship. They explicitly cannot count towards your internship or post doc hours, because they are not completed at those levels of training.

And I wouldn't say that any further hours you accrue are "irrelevant" for internship. It's not about sheer quantitative hours, it's about the quality and the experience you get. Yes, you might have enough now, but hour minimums are just that, minimum requirements to meet the basic standards of the site. They are going to look at your letters of reference (which could include supervisors from new sites) and your essays (e.g., your clinical essay could include any upcoming experiences) and ask you about your clinical experiences (which, again, could include upcoming sites). And even if you cranked out more than the minimum, you may not yet have the right kind of experiences to make you competitive for the internships you may already be looking at.

Regardless, these questions could have been very easily answered by your DCT or other faculty in your program. Is there a reason you haven't asked them? Has this site and your specific arrangement with them been officially approved by your program?

 

[chicandtoughness]

I'm surprised that everyone is confused about this - you cannot be earning licensure hours before you are granted your degree. Period :/ No matter how many hours you've accrued before internship or not.

 

[niceman]

Summarizing some of the key points and adding some more:

1. What you are describing is considered an advanced practicum because one can do multiple advanced practica.

2. You should check with your program first. It has to be approved by the program because ultimately your program signs off on your hours there. Typically, you also need a supervision class at your program.

3. ClinicalABA shared the information about health service setting already. A private practice does not automatically qualify as a health service setting because it can vary so much. You should ask your potential supervisor to go through the "Is this a health service setting?" form and see if he provides everything required. Anecdotally, a facility I know hired one additional licensed psychologist (plus an existing one) to become a health service setting as technically the form asks about "supervision by qualifying licensed professionalS." While you can keep asking the board, they may not be able to answer you without all the documentations.

4. I highly doubt your research can meet the "advanced practicum" requirement for licensure in MA.

Unsolicited advice:
5. If you have only completed a practicum and an advanced practicum, your hours are likely far from enough to be competitive for internship. psych.meout already explained why.

6. MA is one of the most competitive states for internship. You may want to consider neighboring states just in case.

7. For those who do not know about the licensing requirements in MA, please look them up before sharing wrong information. There are also 16 other states that count pre-internship hours towards licensure. FYI: State By State Progress

 

[ClinicalABA]

7. For those who do not know about the licensing requirements in MA, please look them up before sharing wrong information. There are also 16 other states that count pre-internship hours towards licensure. FYI: State By State Progress

This. In MA you minimum 3200 hours supervised experience, with a minimum of 1600 from internship. You have to do all these within 60 consecutive months. Non internship experience must occur after 2 years graduate training to count (labeled "advanced practica"). These can happen either pre-doctoral, post-doctoral, or a combination of both. For advanced practica, 50% has to be direct provision of service to clients. Research may be acceptable supervised activity during the other 50% of the time, but I'd be sure to have it spelled out in the training plan, somehow related to the direct provision of service in that setting, and documented as being supervised by the psychologist supervising you in that setting.

 

[WisNeuro]

Yeah, I was going to chime in as well, I am aware of a couple states that allow a certain proportion of hours in the year or two prior to internship, with a specified number of hours that have to be postgrad. I'd always shoot for meeting requirements of several states that you think you could possibly end up in, though. Know lots of people who ended up somewhere they weren't initially planning. You don't want to be in a situation where you have to turn down a dream job because you don't qualify for licensure in that jurisdiction.