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Can anyone provide any insight into this? I was trying to evaluate my options. BCOM sounds awesome and all but I'm a little concerned over it's status as a new institution.

Are there safeguards in place to prevent something like this from happening? Meaning they have to have enough funding before even being approved as an institution? etc?
 
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hallowmann

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Generally speaking there are safeguards in place, and to give you some insight, a DO school hasn't closed since the 1970s.

That said, I cannot recommend going to a new school (any new school). Go to one that has graduated a class, sent them through boards, has performance data, etc. Its one thing if that's your only option, but if you have other options, go there.

Obviously, only you can decide if a school and aspects of it (location, cost, curriculum, etc.) fit you better and are worth the risk of going to a new school and the numerous cons that come with them (untested curriculum, poor organization, poor clinical affiliations and rotation organization, limited upperclassman feedback, in general a school and system that is always in flux, etc.). Don't take it lightly though, going to a new school is a big deal, and most of that stuff is not something you want to have to deal with during med school.
 

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It is very unlikely that BCOM will shot down. The only new school that has issues that are true red flags (outside of normal new school stuff) is LUCOM. I would be concerned going there.

On the other hand I agree with Hallowman 100%. Unless you absolutely feel at home at a new school then you should go to an established school. New school headaches are not something you should want to willingly experience.
 

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Can anyone provide any insight into this? I was trying to evaluate my options. BCOM sounds awesome and all but I'm a little concerned over it's status as a new institution.



Are there safeguards in place to prevent something like this from happening? Meaning they have to have enough funding before even being approved as an institution? etc?
Another issue with some of the new DO schools (which they seem to be opening every year) is that you will not qualify for federal student loans for the first two years they are in operation. Alternately, private educational loans usually have a higher interest rate, don't allow for income based repayment (IBR) and may require co-signers. Only pick a new school if you have no other choice.
 
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IslandStyle808

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Another issue with the new DO schools (which they seem to be opening every year) is that you will not qualify for federal student loans for the first two years they are in operation. Alternately, private educational loans usually have a higher interest rate, don't allow for income based repayment (IBR) and may require co-signers. Only pick a new school if you have no other choice.
Depends on the school. Marian had federal loans since year one, since it was under Marian University.
 

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Nope. There's headaches involved with attending a new school absolutely, but no way. They have to put millions down in advance as some kind of insurance policy against such a thing. BCOM is starting out much stronger than most.


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In the highly unlikely event that a school gets shut down, the students would be distributed to the other COMs. I don't have any other details than that.

Can anyone provide any insight into this? I was trying to evaluate my options. BCOM sounds awesome and all but I'm a little concerned over it's status as a new institution.

Are there safeguards in place to prevent something like this from happening? Meaning they have to have enough funding before even being approved as an institution? etc?
 

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In the highly unlikely event that a school gets shut down, the students would be distributed to the other COMs. I don't have any other details than that.
I read about this as well. If a DO school closes down, it's going to be a mess but each student would be eligible to transfer to another COM and keep their current position (I.e. 1st year, 2nd year, etc.)
 

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Would you choose an established school like LECOM, VCOM, or WVSOM over established new schools like CUSOM and MUCOM just because they have not graduated a class yet?
 
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DocMcMommy

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I'm making a tentative school list in my head (very tentative as I'm hoping to write the MCAT in Jan, so don't even have that yet). BUT I think I would pick BCOM over most schools except maybe KCU, CCOM, or PCOM. BUT that's because I grew up in that state and am in love with it. It would be super tough to turn down even for the ones I listed, but I think I would because they would just be too good of choices compared to a new school, even a school in a place I love.

Again, though. What the heck do I really know? I'm not even there yet and am just casually speculating.
 

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Given the different curriculums, I think that it would be impossible. An OMSII might very well have to start over.

Unfair, yes, but what's the alternative? Not be a doctor?

I read about this as well. If a DO school closes down, it's going to be a mess but each student would be eligible to transfer to another COM and keep their current position (I.e. 1st year, 2nd year, etc.)
 

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Another issue with some of the new DO schools (which they seem to be opening every year) is that you will not qualify for federal student loans for the first two years they are in operation. Alternately, private educational loans usually have a higher interest rate, don't allow for income based repayment (IBR) and may require co-signers. Only pick a new school if you have no other choice.
Not to start a war, but a lot of people beat federal rates when we got our loans. There is no IBR, but Wells Fargo does offer loans to be deferred until AFTER residency. Fed loans are more favorable generally but private does have some advantages as well. People just have to research and do what they feel is best. Lots of our classmates chose BCOM over other programs. Definitely know your credit score and don't go in blind though, totally agree. Work on it now


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MADD!!!

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Also I have to add, and it's been mentioned before on this thread somewhere also, there are benefits to going to new DO schools. One that comes to mind is the faculturs being open minded about changes being made vs older schools who have kept certain traditions and won't change then regardless of student opinions because "it's always been that way."

I would prefer to go to a school that is open-minded and actually follows through on student surveys they receive. Some older schools do, others don't.
 
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FutureDO08

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Also I have to add, and it's been mentioned before on this thread somewhere also, there are benefits to going to new DO schools. One that comes to mind is the faculturs being open minded about changes being made vs older schools who have kept certain traditions and won't change then regardless of student opinions because "it's always been that way."

I would prefer to go to a school that is open-minded and actually follows through on student surveys they receive. Some older schools do, others don't.
Our program is super open for that right now. Student intermediate/ambassadors have weekly meetings with staff, we have firecracker provided from the beginning, firecracker even has our curriculum and is catering their program to our current blocks.


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MADD!!!

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Our program is super open for that right now. Student intermediate/ambassadors have weekly meetings with staff, we have firecracker provided from the beginning, firecracker even has our curriculum and is catering their program to our current blocks.


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I would imagine so. With new schools everyone is on board to make things as good as possible, so you really feel a collaborative atmosphere with the entire school as well. Great to hear! BCOM has definitely shot up on my list, especially after hearing about their research program.
 

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Would you choose an established school like LECOM, VCOM, or WVSOM over established new schools like CUSOM and MUCOM just because they have not graduated a class yet?
Yeah. All of those 3 established schools have very solid records and they've been around for a long time. Again, MUCOM and CUSOM haven't. The only one I might question is WVSOM, but that's more because of the OOS tuition than anything else.

LECOM has been around since the 90s and has solid clinical core sites and pathways that have each been tried, tested, and shown to perform well. VCOM has at least from my experience graduated some of the best physicians I've met. I'm unsure about their new sites, but they've been solid in the past.

Also I have to add, and it's been mentioned before on this thread somewhere also, there are benefits to going to new DO schools. One that comes to mind is the faculturs being open minded about changes being made vs older schools who have kept certain traditions and won't change then regardless of student opinions because "it's always been that way."

I would prefer to go to a school that is open-minded and actually follows through on student surveys they receive. Some older schools do, others don't.
Yeah this is a double edged sword like I mentioned. It may sound great, but do you really want changes to the curriculum any time any student has a problem with it? It's backfired on people before. On top of that, how will you as students know that such a change is actually beneficial come boards time? I'm telling you, it's risky and overall not the best way to go. Again though, if it's your only option, it doesn't matter, ignore everything I said.

I will also say that most DO schools aren't all that old and are open to changes, especially on the faculty level. Even more important than that is knowing that your curriculum prepares students well for boards, which is kind of hard if you go to a school that hasn't sent people to boards yet.
 

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Our program is super open for that right now. Student intermediate/ambassadors have weekly meetings with staff, we have firecracker provided from the beginning, firecracker even has our curriculum and is catering their program to our current blocks.


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Agree w hallowman all the way, but that's pretty cool. I have some friends and some people on SDN that ask me about BCOM and I always give rave reviews. Is attendance mandatory? Can you stream lectures?


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hallowmann

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Agree w hallowman all the way, but that's pretty cool. I have some friends and some people on SDN that ask me about BCOM and I always give rave reviews. Is attendance mandatory? Can you stream lectures?


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And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that in a few years these schools won't be amazing, I'm just saying when you're dealing with the struggles of med school, being a guinea pig is the last thing you want to worry about.

Virtually all new DO schools that have opened in the last few years will likely be strong schools that will last and be fine, but again that doesn't mean you'll have the best experience being in one of the first classes there. Or maybe you will because its a mile away from home, you'll have family support nearby, you'll never have to worry about long commutes, taking out more loans for rent, or cooking for yourself? Obviously YMMV.
 
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Can anyone provide any insight into this? I was trying to evaluate my options. BCOM sounds awesome and all but I'm a little concerned over it's status as a new institution.

Are there safeguards in place to prevent something like this from happening? Meaning they have to have enough funding before even being approved as an institution? etc?
You are concerned about BCOM? Millions of dollars were invested into the construction of the school and its affiliated with a large public university, its not going anywhere. You should look at some other DO schools built under less auspicious circumstances that are still standing.

$105 million was spent on BCOM so far, so I do not see it closing any time in the near future, I think Dan Burrell plans to have the school run for a very long time, I do not think he got rich building failing ventures like another guy :).

Of the schools in the Western US, I think I could easily recommend BCOM, AZCOM, ATSU, Western(both campuses), PNWU, OSU, and TCOM.
 
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You are concerned about BCOM? Millions of dollars were invested into the construction of the school and its affiliated with a large public university, its not going anywhere. You should look at some other DO schools built under less auspicious circumstances that are still standing.

$105 million was spent on BCOM so far, so I do not see it closing any time in the near future, I think Dan Burrell plans to have the school run for a very long time, I do not think he got rich building failing ventures like another guy :).

Of the schools in the Western US, I think I could easily recommend BCOM, AZCOM, ATSU, Western(both campuses), PNWU, OSU, and TCOM.
May I ask why do you easily recommend BCOM but not RVU?

I'm only asking since both RVU and BCOM are both For-Profit.
 
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May I ask why do you easily recommend BCOM but not RVU?

I'm only asking since both RVU and BCOM are both For-Profit.
Look up Dr. Tien, the founder of RVU, before he created RVU he was in the business of offshore medical schools. Many people in the DO community did not like RVU for this reason. RVU is doing quite well anyway.

BCOM and its administration is doing everything possible to make sure the school is successful. BCOM is more of a philanthropic work on the part of Dan Burrell. RVU is another money making venture on the part of Yife Tien, Tien sold his offshore medical school to DeVry for $235 million in 2011. He spent $30 million to build RVU, which is fraction of what has been spent on BCOM.
 
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Look up Dr. Tien, the founder of RVU, before he created RVU he was in the business of offshore medical schools. Many people in the DO community did not like RVU for this reason. RVU is doing quite well anyway.

BCOM and its administration is doing everything possible to make sure the school is successful. BCOM is more of a philanthropic work on the part of Dan Burrell. RVU is another money making venture on the part of Yife Tien, Tien sold his offshore medical school to DeVry for $235 million in 2011. He spent $30 million to build RVU, which is fraction of what has been spent on BCOM.
So I did some quick reading on both Yife Tien and Dan Burrell. To me, both appear to be investors looking to make money off of higher medical education. I understand there is a Caribbean stigma and Burrell has the New Mexico philanthropic angle, but I came across this article. It appears that Dan and the Burrell Group were shopping the medical school around and wanted to build in Montana before being rejected by the region and its healthcare network.

It also looks like Burrell is already expanding into Idaho although BCOM is only a couple weeks into it's first class. Doesn't look like a philanthropic project to me...

I looked it up like you told me to and I don't really see a difference in Tien and Burrell. It looks like both have $$ in their eyes and look to profit off of the seller's market of medical school admissions.
 

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Finally got a II from here!!!!
 
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So I did some quick reading on both Yife Tien and Dan Burrell. To me, both appear to be investors looking to make money off of higher medical education. I understand there is a Caribbean stigma and Burrell has the New Mexico philanthropic angle, but I came across this article. It appears that Dan and the Burrell Group were shopping the medical school around and wanted to build in Montana before being rejected by the region and its healthcare network.

It also looks like Burrell is already expanding into Idaho although BCOM is only a couple weeks into it's first class. Doesn't look like a philanthropic project to me...

I looked it up like you told me to and I don't really see a difference in Tien and Burrell. It looks like both have $$ in their eyes and look to profit off of the seller's market of medical school admissions.
You really know absolutely nothing on how an entity makes money. By the way there are many non profit colleges and universities that are actually profitable enterprises.
 
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IsWhat

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Family circumstances kept me from choosing BCOM, but it's going to be playing with the big boys sooner rather than later - so if you are willing to take out private loans for the first few years I would hop on that train.
 
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BCOM is a legit program that gets ****ted on SDN quite constantly by a bunch of nerds who don't know wtf they are talking about. *Shots fired*

It is what it is.

After vicariously interviewing there last year, they had their stuff together and my friend would have chosen BCOM had it not been for extenuating circumstances.

Plus, Dan Burrell is a multi multi multi millionaire.... Money talks. Bull**** walks.

Those students are gonna get residencies (don't know about the "quality"... whatever the **** that means) because A) it's in new mexico and B) because Dan has the capital to back it up.

They are invested in their students' success and being the first class...? Oh.. you can bet your ass they will get whatever they need to succeed.
 

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If the school is for profit, I believe it has a strong financial to provide support for its student for whatever they dream to be. It's business afterall. Getting the name out there is also part of the business
 
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BCOM is a legit program that gets ****ted on SDN quite constantly by a bunch of nerds who don't know wtf they are talking about. *Shots fired*

It is what it is.

After vicariously interviewing there last year, they had their stuff together and my friend would have chosen BCOM had it not been for extenuating circumstances.

Plus, Dan Burrell is a multi multi multi millionaire.... Money talks. Bull**** walks.

Those students are gonna get residencies (don't know about the "quality"... whatever the **** that means) because A) it's in new mexico and B) because Dan has the capital to back it up.

They are invested in their students' success and being the first class...? Oh.. you can bet your ass they will get whatever they need to succeed.
Yife Tien is building another school in Utah. RVU is doing quite well despite people's reservations about him and its status. You are right about the money part. Even non profits make money as well. I even noticed many large elite schools have created new evening and graduate programs recently, seems like a way for them to make more tuition money from recent graduates.
 
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May I ask why do you easily recommend BCOM but not RVU?

I'm only asking since both RVU and BCOM are both For-Profit.

T-ara is probably a BCOM reject thats why she/he continues to obsessively pursue BCOM

for profit in medical schools means nothing because there are strict accreditation standards

it is unlike other school systems that don't have accreditation and regulations to meet
 
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T-ara is probably a BCOM reject thats why she/he continues to obsessively pursue BCOM

for profit in medical schools means nothing because there are strict accreditation standards

it is unlike other school systems that don't have accreditation and regulations to meet
I'm a current applicant who didn't apply to either school because I'm against for-profit medical education in the US. I didn't apply to Northstate for the same reason. That's just my personal belief and I have nothing against BCOM students. I'm sure they'll give you a great education, so please don't be so offended.

I was asking @Seth Joo since he said that RVU was a "money making venture" and BCOM was a work of philanthropy. He told me to read about the investors and I did. To me, both appear to be businessmen who are looking to turn a profit and expand further. I just wanted to know where the distinction he makes comes from. Is it merely because of the investors' background?
 
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Lots of jimmies rustled in this thread.

Meh. Get used to for-profit med schools. Having investor backing is the quickest way to get a new school up and running. I never thought the LCME would provisionally accredit a for-profit school and they did. All those who tried to protect the "nobility" and "higher purpose" of medical education from the greedy rich people have given up. Even BCOM's dean tried lead a crusade against for-profits a few years back... and now he's dean of one. Like someone said above: "money talks..."
 
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I'm a current applicant who didn't apply to either school because I'm against for-profit medical education in the US. I didn't apply to Northstate for the same reason. That's just my personal belief and I have nothing against BCOM students. I'm sure they'll give you a great education, so please don't be so offended.

I was asking @Seth Joo since he said that RVU was a "money making venture" and BCOM was a work of philanthropy. He told me to read about the investors and I did. To me, both appear to be businessmen who are looking to turn a profit and expand further. I just wanted to know where the distinction he makes comes from. Is it merely because of the investors' background?

the guy is a billionaire, he isn't going to be churning this into a profit scheme. look to some nonprofit programs that cut corners to save money if you want
to see that
 

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Lots of jimmies rustled in this thread.

Meh. Get used to for-profit med schools. Having investor backing is the quickest way to get a new school up and running. I never thought the LCME would provisionally accredit a for-profit school and they did. All those who tried to protect the "nobility" and "higher purpose" of medical education from the greedy rich people have given up. Even BCOM's dean tried lead a crusade against for-profits a few years back... and now he's dean of one. Like someone said above: "money talks..."
Speaking of the dean: at the interview he said that he knew which students would succeed and which ones wouldn't (after only a couple weeks of class). Sounded to me like a pretty condescending tone towards prospective students
 
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Speaking of the dean: at the interview he said that he knew which students would succeed and which ones wouldn't (after only a couple weeks of class). Sounded to me like a pretty condescending tone towards prospective students
Actually you will hear this at DO schools a lot more than at MD schools, kind of why admissions statistics are lower for COCA schools. Some schools have weird rules like requiring students to adhere to a certain dress code while on campus or forced to attend lecture.

BCOM is not the only medical school sponsored by a rich person. UCLA, University of Colorado, Mt. Sinai, and Cornell have wealthy benefactors, there might be others as well.
 
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Wjldenver

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Actually you will hear this at DO schools a lot more than at MD schools, kind of why admissions statistics are lower for COCA schools. Some schools have weird rules like requiring students to adhere to a certain dress code while on campus or forced to attend lecture.

BCOM is not the only medical school sponsored by a rich person. UCLA, University of Colorado, Mt. Sinai, and Cornell have wealthy benefactors, there might be others as well.
There is one distinction to be made however. Anschutz is a billionaire who gave $$$ to the University of Colorado system to improve and relocate their medical school/center to Aurora, CO. (A Denver suburb.) It was purely a philanthropic effort. The investors backing RVU and BCOM did not invest/give $ out of the kindness of their heart. I would be willing to bet that there is a financial incentive for them there as well. Didn't the guy who opened RVU sell a Caribbean medical school he started to a for profit educational company for $300M or so?
 
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There is one distinction to be made however. Anschutz is a billionaire who gave $$$ to the University of Colorado system to improve and relocate their medical school/center to Aurora, CO. (A Denver suburb.) It was purely a philanthropic effort. The investors backing RVU and BCOM did not invest/give $ out of the kindness of their heart. I would be willing to bet that there is a financial incentive for them there as well. Didn't the guy who opened RVU sell a Caribbean medical school he started to a for profit educational company for $300M or so?
He was paid $225 million for his offshore school which he sold to DeVry, but anyway in this world, money talks. Even non profit schools are run by ruthless folks with an eye on the bottom line and positive public image.
 
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