Lions and Tigers, and oh Damn: Pre-reqs, V-Hours, etc. Galore (Path to a career change)

[Edmo15]

So I've spend the last several days reading a lot of the field and subject of PT both on these boards and elsewhere and have some questions.

FIrst off, the story needs a beginning.

I already hold a bachelor's degree. Coming out of high school, my interests mainly seemed to align with journalism and more towards the creative arts. Naturally, I wanted to go to the best school possible for that (and have somewhat of a 'homecoming") back to the state I spent my childhood and the college my brother's attended: The University of Missouri.

Flash forward about six years with my degree in hand a recent stint as an intern in Atlanta and well... I've learned the field just isn't for me. Well, I learned that long before: long story short, I loathe the practice of journalism. Tried the marketing field a bit too and hated the atmosphere of shady manipulation in the field where it was all about 'sales, sales, sales.'

So I starting thinking about a different career track entirely. My original thought was grad school and get a degree in public health. I met with some folks in the field, researched schools, pondered some more, and figured that's not what I wanted either. An average desk job thinking abstractly wasn't going to cut. I needed to do more in the sense of something more hands-on in figuring out problems. I also realized that health was still an interest.

Naturally I looked at nursing. I imagine many PTs, PTAs, etc, have considered that field as well. My interests were more around nurse practitioner specializing in orthopedics. So I researched that as well and discovered the nasty politics overriding the field, the awfulness of the patient survey system, the lack of restroom breaks and food breaks, and the toll on your body...Figured the abuse I'd go through wasn't really worth it.

Then I started considering PT, which probably aligns more closely with my interests: the human body. I'm a gym nut. I can't stay sane unless I'm in the gym 3-6 days a week. Partly because it kills stress and partly because I have to constantly work at my body because of injuries in the past which brings me to the why. Why PT?

5 major injuries in a 2.5ish year span starting off with a double compound fracture of my right arm followed by 4 knee dislocations. Nasty long business coming back from all that. Made me really appreciate the PTs/PTAs/etc that helped get me back on track. Side note: I never got back full rotation on my arm. Missing a couple degrees. Never quite sure if that was because I didn't work hard enough at the exercises or because of the titanium plate still in my arm and residual scar tissue. At any rate, I'm healthier now than I was before (relatively speaking since before all this I could still play soccer competitively).

So all that brings me here. My original thought was PTA, just because the program was cheaper, shorter, and most certainly more hands on. At the same time, I figure I have to be realistic. I doubt my body would hold up very long in the field even though I'm still 25. Even regardless of injury, my body wasn't designed well. Loose joints and floating knee caps = yesh (traditional weighted squats would make them explode). Besides, I also learned I didn't want to be the 'grunt.' I wanted to have more control and use my analytical and journalistic mind to tackle strategies and methods and diagnostic principles.

Which brings me to pre-reqs. Needless to say, I have a load to take. 12 classes in fact, plus 1 likely retake (a bio lab that was taught very poorly).

So I have: Anatomy cycle, Chem cycle, and Phys cycle to take along with the two Psych classes, Med Term, Pys of Exercise, Stats (yuck....looks like my undergrad course previously taken won't do me much good.)

It's been forever and a half since either a science class or a math class and in order to attempt to make the 2016 program start, I'll have to wade through a lot of stuff.

My plan so far is to try and take:

Anatomy 1
Psych
Med Term
Gen Bio 2

this coming 2015 spring semester. I figure the less stuff I have to worry about while taking chemistry and physics, the far better off I'll be.

My questions are thus:

1. In order to prepare myself for taking chemistry and physics, hopefully during the summer semester, is there I math class I should be taking to brush up my skills? Or some other direction I can/should take? I've been going over a bit of the GRE strategy and I've realized just how rusty my math is.

2. Does anyone have an opinion on Algebra-based Physics vs. Calculus-based Physics? One of the schools I'm looking at will take either sequence. I imagine this is true in general? Is there a difficulty difference? I haven't taken Calc since high school and that was pre-calc, though one of my best overall math grades period.

3. I plan on double checking this with advisors of course, but does anyone know just how late in the game you can still be taking classes? I'd love to be able to apply for the 2015 summer cohort. That plan would require being enrolled in physics and chem at the same time in summer and fall and anatomy II during one of those semester. Not ideal, but I would if I had to. Anyone have experience taking classes during the spring term and still getting accepted the year of?

4. I'm most certainly new to the observation hours thing: how exactly does this work, how do you go about fulfilling it, and where can it be fulfilled? Do I require some prior documentation or just schedule hours at different places? How many hours a week have people generally done?


*Hopefully this all makes sense and doesn't read too much like an essay. My brain is still stuffy from a sinus infection and my journalistic method of questioning definitely took over.*

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[DesertPT]

So I've spend the last several days reading a lot of the field and subject of PT both on these boards and elsewhere and have some questions.

FIrst off, the story needs a beginning.

I already hold a bachelor's degree. Coming out of high school, my interests mainly seemed to align with journalism and more towards the creative arts. Naturally, I wanted to go to the best school possible for that (and have somewhat of a 'homecoming") back to the state I spent my childhood and the college my brother's attended: The University of Missouri.

Flash forward about six years with my degree in hand a recent stint as an intern in Atlanta and well... I've learned the field just isn't for me. Well, I learned that long before: long story short, I loathe the practice of journalism. Tried the marketing field a bit too and hated the atmosphere of shady manipulation in the field where it was all about 'sales, sales, sales.'

So I starting thinking about a different career track entirely. My original thought was grad school and get a degree in public health. I met with some folks in the field, researched schools, pondered some more, and figured that's not what I wanted either. An average desk job thinking abstractly wasn't going to cut. I needed to do more in the sense of something more hands-on in figuring out problems. I also realized that health was still an interest.

Naturally I looked at nursing. I imagine many PTs, PTAs, etc, have considered that field as well. My interests were more around nurse practitioner specializing in orthopedics. So I researched that as well and discovered the nasty politics overriding the field, the awfulness of the patient survey system, the lack of restroom breaks and food breaks, and the toll on your body...Figured the abuse I'd go through wasn't really worth it.

Then I started considering PT, which probably aligns more closely with my interests: the human body. I'm a gym nut. I can't stay sane unless I'm in the gym 3-6 days a week. Partly because it kills stress and partly because I have to constantly work at my body because of injuries in the past which brings me to the why. Why PT?

5 major injuries in a 2.5ish year span starting off with a double compound fracture of my right arm followed by 4 knee dislocations. Nasty long business coming back from all that. Made me really appreciate the PTs/PTAs/etc that helped get me back on track. Side note: I never got back full rotation on my arm. Missing a couple degrees. Never quite sure if that was because I didn't work hard enough at the exercises or because of the titanium plate still in my arm and residual scar tissue. At any rate, I'm healthier now than I was before (relatively speaking since before all this I could still play soccer competitively).

So all that brings me here. My original thought was PTA, just because the program was cheaper, shorter, and most certainly more hands on. At the same time, I figure I have to be realistic. I doubt my body would hold up very long in the field even though I'm still 25. Even regardless of injury, my body wasn't designed well. Loose joints and floating knee caps = yesh (traditional weighted squats would make them explode). Besides, I also learned I didn't want to be the 'grunt.' I wanted to have more control and use my analytical and journalistic mind to tackle strategies and methods and diagnostic principles.

Which brings me to pre-reqs. Needless to say, I have a load to take. 12 classes in fact, plus 1 likely retake (a bio lab that was taught very poorly).

So I have: Anatomy cycle, Chem cycle, and Phys cycle to take along with the two Psych classes, Med Term, Pys of Exercise, Stats (yuck....looks like my undergrad course previously taken won't do me much good.)

It's been forever and a half since either a science class or a math class and in order to attempt to make the 2016 program start, I'll have to wade through a lot of stuff.

My plan so far is to try and take:

Anatomy 1
Psych
Med Term
Gen Bio 2

this coming 2015 spring semester. I figure the less stuff I have to worry about while taking chemistry and physics, the far better off I'll be.

My questions are thus:

1. In order to prepare myself for taking chemistry and physics, hopefully during the summer semester, is there I math class I should be taking to brush up my skills? Or some other direction I can/should take? I've been going over a bit of the GRE strategy and I've realized just how rusty my math is.

2. Does anyone have an opinion on Algebra-based Physics vs. Calculus-based Physics? One of the schools I'm looking at will take either sequence. I imagine this is true in general? Is there a difficulty difference? I haven't taken Calc since high school and that was pre-calc, though one of my best overall math grades period.

3. I plan on double checking this with advisors of course, but does anyone know just how late in the game you can still be taking classes? I'd love to be able to apply for the 2015 summer cohort. That plan would require being enrolled in physics and chem at the same time in summer and fall and anatomy II during one of those semester. Not ideal, but I would if I had to. Anyone have experience taking classes during the spring term and still getting accepted the year of?

4. I'm most certainly new to the observation hours thing: how exactly does this work, how do you go about fulfilling it, and where can it be fulfilled? Do I require some prior documentation or just schedule hours at different places? How many hours a week have people generally done?


*Hopefully this all makes sense and doesn't read too much like an essay. My brain is still stuffy from a sinus infection and my journalistic method of questioning definitely took over.*

1. College algebra, if you really think you need it and it is worth it to you to take a class that doesn't really count for anything. Personally I would just take the chem and physics and review basic math skills as you go, PRN.

2. Take algebra-based physics. Calc-based is quite a bit more involved and is not necessary for PT school. I doubt if you could even do it if you haven't take calculus and actually remembered it to some extent (pre-calc classes don't include any calculus by the way).

3. I doubt you can apply during this next cycle. Most schools will only allow you to have 2 (maybe 3 at most) outstanding pre-reqs at the time of application. The more pre-reqs you have done, the more meaningful your pre-req GPA is. At some schools having multiple outstanding pre-reqs really hurts your chances of getting in, at others it is less of a big deal. And on top of all those classes, remember that you need to study for and take the GRE, get to know PTs and faculty well enough to ask them for LOR's, do a lot of observation hours (how much you need varies by school but its a safe bet to shoot for ~150 hours divided up between at least 3 widely different settings, both inpatient and outpatient), and just generally dedicate the time that it takes to put together a high quality application. You should plan to apply to be a part of the DPT class of 2020.

4. There are lots of threads that discuss this topic, but basically outpatient hours are relatively easily obtained by simply calling clinics and asking to be an observer. If any PTs who treated you in the past would remember you (or even if they wouldn't) that would be a good place to start (assuming you are still in the area). Try to split those outpatient hours up among more than one place (eg. do 30 or 40 at a peds clinic and/or another 30 or 40 at a standard outpatient ortho clinic and/or another 30 or 40 at a hand therapy clinic that has a PT (not an OT!), rather than like 100 hours in one clinic). Inpatient hours are much more difficult to setup in general. Inpatient hours in SNF's and some rehab facilities can be a bit easier to get into, in some cases, but can still take several weeks to successfully get started. Acute care hospital hours are the most involved to get into and generally allow the smallest number of hours, but having acute care hours is a huge boon to your application as PT adcoms really like to see them. Start working on getting inpatient hours early (like 6 months or more before you plan to apply). I waited til a couple of months before application submission time to start trying to set up acute care hours, and while it ended up working out, it was very stressful waiting for people who never reply to emails and jumping through hoops for two months before I could even start. Ultimately, if you could do something like 30 or 40 hours in a rehab facility or SNF and 20 hours in the acute care hospital setting that would be ideal. Having hundreds of hours can be good, but is only worth doing if you are working as a PT tech anyway and getting paid for it. Maximizing the variety of your observation experiences is much more important than increasing your total number of hours. Breadth is valued much, much, much more than depth in the admissions process. And GPA and GRE scores will always be the two biggest criteria, so remember not to let your grades slip in the name of doing lots of observation hours. How many hours you do a week or how you get the hours done chronologically is irrelevant, the number of hours you ultimately have when you apply and the number of different settings you have seen is what matters, not your weekly time commitment.

 

[DesertPT]

Besides, I also learned I didn't want to be the 'grunt.' I wanted to have more control and use my analytical and journalistic mind to tackle strategies and methods and diagnostic principles.

While PTs can and should be doing more "diagnostics" than PTA's, PTAs do not do "grunt work". That is PT techs/aides you are thinking of. PTAs in most clinics work fairly independently and do many of the same things PTs do, minus evaluations of course.

There is more job availability, autonomy and salary for PTs, but there is essentially no debt for PTAs and their salary isn't that bad considering it only requires an associates degree. Both really have their pros and cons.

I would highly recommend continuing to read as many threads as you possibly can in the PT forums here on SDN. You can become extremely educated on the application process and PT education in general that way. And don't overlook the sticky of "GPAs, GREs, XTRAS, ACCEPTANCES" at the top of the pre-PT forum. It contains seven years now worth of self-reported applicant data that you can peruse to your heart's delight to get an idea of what kinds of stats are getting people into what schools.

 

[Edmo15]

Great information. That's exactly what I was looking for.

Though disappointing, and not just DPT, but most of the similar med fields I've looked at, have cohorts that only start in summer. That kinda puts me in no-man's land when I only have 12 classes to take in a 2 year span.

Do you, or anyone else, have suggestions on filling a lot of the empty time I'm liable to have with experience in the field and getting paid for it? Seems like the only real way to get paid, is to actually hold an associate's degree, which would be counterintuitive in regards to time devoted and educational costs spent if I went the DPT route after the fact.

 

[Watson27]

I waited a year after graduating before applying. I work as a rehab tech. You do not need a college degree of any kind to hold an aide/tech position. Most clinics prefer to hire pre-PT students. So an associates degree is not necessary. Go for it!

 

[DesertPT]

Great information. That's exactly what I was looking for.

Though disappointing, and not just DPT, but most of the similar med fields I've looked at, have cohorts that only start in summer. That kinda puts me in no-man's land when I only have 12 classes to take in a 2 year span.

Do you, or anyone else, have suggestions on filling a lot of the empty time I'm liable to have with experience in the field and getting paid for it? Seems like the only real way to get paid, is to actually hold an associate's degree, which would be counterintuitive in regards to time devoted and educational costs spent if I went the DPT route after the fact.

No problem.

And there are a few PT schools that have classes that start in Jan. IIRC, but very few I think.

PT tech jobs are great if you can find one that pays decently...but if there is a job available to you that pays substantially better than realize that being a PT tech is by no means neccessary to get into PT school. Like I said before, a healthy number of diversified observation hours is what I like to see.

And yes you could technically have all your classes done in one school year but you would have too many outstanding pre-reqs at the time you apply, unless you pack your schedule to some kind of insane extent which is not advisable.

I would say that it is better to take the time necessary to put a quality application together and do it right the first time, rather than run the risk of having to apply twice and waste mucho time and $$$$. But only you really know your own abilities and situation. If you applied to schools that have hard deadlines in Nov. but don't really look at apps until spring (after Dec. academic update) then you could get it done maybe by taking like 18 credits this coming spring, 6 or 7 in the summer, and another 15-18 in the fall. But that is going to be killer if you are not ready for chem and phys and are working/doing PT hours, etc. during that time. I have done it but I was not out of school before hand and didn't have to study heavily or review my math skills.

 

[Watson27]

I would say that it is better to take the time necessary to put a quality application together and do it right the first time, rather than run the risk of having to apply twice and waste mucho time and $$$$.

YES. I don't understand people that apply even though they know their application is weak. If you know that you have C's that need to be repeated, or you have few observation hours, or GRE scores that do not meet the minimums, why waste all that money? Rather than praying that one of the 15 schools you applied will mistakenly admit you, do your research and do it right once. I know that my application was not super strong last year, and that is why I waited.

@Edmo15 You are in a great position because you are planning well in advance. If you aren't able to get your application ready to go by next fall, don't sweat it. I would also suggest that you start researching schools now. Thoroughly. Find a few that you would really want to attend and tailor your application to their specifications. It makes things so much easier. Have you thought about where you might want to go?

 

[Edmo15]

@Watson27

Yea. I have. I just finished up an internship in my previous field this past year in Atlanta then moved back home when I didn't find anything I liked / realized how dissatisfied I'd be in any journo/marketing job I would find. So I'm back in the Cincinnati area. (And having researched DPT costs, I figure it's going to be so much easier on myself if I stay with family leading up to/during this kind of education. No point in getting murdered with apt. rent fees if I can get living space for free.)

So on that train, University of Cincinnati and Dayton are the ones I've been looking at so far. There's a 3rd in the area as well, though Catholic-based (Mt. Saint Joseph).

I do have plenty of family in Nashville as well so that's certainly a possibility down the line, but would be much more difficult to swing.

I could always blackmail my ophthalmologist brother.
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And yea, my preferred option would be going slow with all the science pre-reqs. It's just the "being antsy and wanting to work mentality" that had me considering going full bore with a heavy class load. But I'm figuring out that just wouldn't be wise with the amount of classes I need to take. I have no desire to retake. At all. I have no worries about Anatomy, Med Terminology, or the Psych courses. After four years of acing German and two years of acing Latin in high school and a semester in college where I took Japanese and got a B, memorization of terminology etc. doesn't daunt me at all.

Physics and Chem. That's another story. Took me a long time to grasp those in high school and hated the subjects for half the year until I started understanding it thanks to awesome teachers. (Though, actually being able to USE the principles in both subjects certainly helped than being inundated with math exercises over and over.)

 

[DesertPT]

And yea, my preferred option would be going slow with all the science pre-reqs. It's just the "being antsy and wanting to work mentality" that had me considering going full bore with a heavy class load. But I'm figuring out that just wouldn't be wise with the amount of classes I need to take.

Assuming you aim to apply during the 2016-17 cycle, then I think the ideal thing to do would be to schedule your pre-reqs so you have all or maybe all but one of them done by the end of Spring/Summer '16. I think you would have no problem with the courseload if spread out over this time period, and having them essentially all done or in progress at the time of application (Fall semester '16) will make the whole process a lot more straightforward for you.

 

[DesertPT]

I could always blackmail my ophthalmologist brother.

I highly recommend this.

 

[DesertPT]

YES. I don't understand people that apply even though they know their application is weak. If you know that you have C's that need to be repeated, or you have few observation hours, or GRE scores that do not meet the minimums, why waste all that money? Rather than praying that one of the 15 schools you applied will mistakenly admit you, do your research and do it right once. I know that my application was not super strong last year, and that is why I waited.

Smart man. Must be that number 27

The whole professional school admissions system is highly unpredictable and who gets in and who doesn't is often determined at least in part by stochastic effects. You stand statistically high chances of getting in somewhere with a weak application by applying to a large enough number of schools (especially high tuition private schools/schools that are rarely anyone's #1 choice).

What I think is the important thing to take from what you have said here is that if you want to go to an in-state school or a highly competitive school (aka you want to save big time $$$$), and/or you are not willing to pack up and move to any old place, then you need a competitive app.

If you have dedicated the time necessary to put together a high quality app then you can apply to your top choice school and a couple of backups with confidence that you will be accepted. This nonsense of people applying to 20+ PT schools..this is a DPT program not an MD program. If you can't get in with a single digit number of applications, you should consider if you are really ready to apply. Think of how much money applying to 20+ schools costs with all the fees and travel costs to interviews, etc. And the reality is that most people I've seen on SDN who applied to >15 schools ended up with 3 or 4 acceptances in the end anyway.

Probably preaching to the choir here but hopefully some lurking pre-PTs will read and benefit in the future.

 

[tweaze]

So I've spend the last several days reading a lot of the field and subject of PT both on these boards and elsewhere and have some questions.
My questions are thus:

1. In order to prepare myself for taking chemistry and physics, hopefully during the summer semester, is there I math class I should be taking to brush up my skills? Or some other direction I can/should take? I've been going over a bit of the GRE strategy and I've realized just how rusty my math is.

2. Does anyone have an opinion on Algebra-based Physics vs. Calculus-based Physics? One of the schools I'm looking at will take either sequence. I imagine this is true in general? Is there a difficulty difference? I haven't taken Calc since high school and that was pre-calc, though one of my best overall math grades period.

3. I plan on double checking this with advisors of course, but does anyone know just how late in the game you can still be taking classes? I'd love to be able to apply for the 2015 summer cohort. That plan would require being enrolled in physics and chem at the same time in summer and fall and anatomy II during one of those semester. Not ideal, but I would if I had to. Anyone have experience taking classes during the spring term and still getting accepted the year of?

Lots of good advice already. The only thing I can add from my own personal experience is to check for prerequisites for the prerequisites. I finished undergrad in 2008, and by the time I started my prerequisites, my math credits were old enough that I had to retake them in order to get into the gen chem/physics series. I wasn't planning to have to take 3 additional math classes, and it really put me behind. Your school may have different requirements/allow you to test into the class, but it's still something to check out when putting together your plan.

 

[lemurien]

Lots of great advice here. I was in your situation almost exactly a year ago; my experience may or may not be helpful (I've applied this cycle; we'll see if I get in!).

I had avoided math and science like the plague in my first go-round (I have a BA in French and a JD, of all things) and I had been out of school since 2001. So I needed 11 prereqs and a lottt of math review.

Last December, I started brushing up on math using a service called ALEKS - it's fabulous, for about $20 a month you get diagnostics and self-paced instruction in many math courses. I went from embarrassingly remedial through College Algebra which was enough to pass my community college placement test for Chem and Stats. Most CCs will let you test in.

KNJ27 is right that PT schools' policies on prereqs vary a lot. Surprisingly though, most of the schools I was interested in allowed for half of the preqs to be outstanding at the time of the application, so it is definitely worth researching. I do think that the more preqs you have outstanding, the more important it is for the rest of the application to be strong (GRE, other GPA, experience, essays, recs). Also, none of the schools I looked at required exercise physiology or medical terminology - so you may have fewer prereqs than you think.

Since I couldn’t pursue the “cast-a-wide-net” strategy, I targeted schools where my stats would be competitive and researched the heck out of them so that I could demonstrate a good “fit” in my essays. I contacted admissions counselors for a “transcript review” to discuss whether I would be competitive/what I should to to strengthen my app (a lot of them offer this). Hopefully this targeted approach will pay off (*crossing fingers*)

I started classes last January with Bio 1, A&P 1, Stats (YUCK), Psych 1. Over the summer I did A&P2 and Chem1. I had grades for these 6 when I applied, with 5 prereqs outstanding. This fall I took Physics1, Bio2, Psych2 and the GRE. I still have Chem 2 and Physics 2 next semester. Along the way I’ve accumulated ~140 observation hours in various settings (I’m wrapping up another 20 now - that’s another thing to check, how schools view “in progress” hours at the time of application.)

All this to say, it is possible to meet all the requirements to apply in about a year, with just a few to finish in the final semester. Good luck!

 

[DesertPT]

Also, none of the schools I looked at required exercise physiology or medical terminology - so you may have fewer prereqs than you think.

Right. You only need to take these if you want to cover your bases at every school or if there are specific schools you want to apply to that require them. Ex phys is pretty common, medical terminology much less so.

I've even seen one school (UNM) that required a nutrition class... so it's better to tailor your pre-reqs to schools you may potentially apply to then to needlessly try to cover all your bases.

 

[DesertPT]

Since I couldn’t pursue the “cast-a-wide-net” strategy, I targeted schools where my stats would be competitive and researched the heck out of them so that I could demonstrate a good “fit” in my essays. I contacted admissions counselors for a “transcript review” to discuss whether I would be competitive/what I should to to strengthen my app (a lot of them offer this). Hopefully this targeted approach will pay off (*crossing fingers*)

THIS THIS THIS THIS 1000 TIMES THIS

I want this quote sticky'd at the top of the forum in 36 point all caps bold red letters. So many pre-PTs would be saved from wasting so much money if they followed this.

 

[Carson Ranger]

My math grades were 15 years old when I went to my local CC. I spoke to a counselor who waived the pre-pre-reqs and placed me directly into the courses I needed.

P.S. I'll be 45 by the time I get my license if everything goes according to plan. Every class needs some non-trads.

 

[littlebit6]

I'm in the same boat and I just applied with three pre-reqs left. The school that is my first choice told me that applying without having taken both A&P classes would probably not result in an acceptance, so I took those first. They said getting in with three pre-reqs left could work out if the rest of my application was strong. I felt it was, so I went ahead and applied. I would have waited a year if I felt my stats were borderline or below what they usually accept. Be sure to find out what classes the schools you prefer value the most before you plan your schedule.

 

[Carson Ranger]

I saved A&P for last because they're the most relevant. Once I post the Academic Update at PTCAS,
UNLV will begin considering my application ...

 

[Phyline]

Another career-changing person jumping in Applying for fall of 2016 entry.

Graduated MIT in 2013, working as an immunology lab tech right now. Came to the conclusion that research/PhD was not for me, and MD is way too expensive and time-consuming, and the only thing that would really interest me in an MD program is PM&R.

I registered for Stats, Psych I and Exercise Phys in the spring, planning to take Developmental Psych and A&P I in the summer and A&P II in the fall (this would be my single outstanding prerequisite). I have already taken a physiology class in undergrad, but it did not include a lab, so I either need to research the hell out of the schools (for example, University of Iowa told me they would accept it) or suck it up and retake the entire sequence.

Just found an outpatient ortho clinic that agreed to let me shadow them enough to get a LOR, after months of emailing and calling. Another inpatient clinic in town is currently lacking a manager, but they do claim to have a 40h observation program for pre-PT folks, so I will try again in a couple of months.

It was a surprise for me how many DPT programs that seem to be popular and have high reviews on this forum are Catholic/Jesuit/7th Day Adventist schools. It's a bummer, because I doubt I would feel comfortable going to a Catholic school (I'm an atheist).

Edit: I do have a C for Physics II, but it was the hardest tier physics class available and frankly, I refuse to retake the class. There's got to be something wrong with the system if an A at a community college is worth more than a C at MIT.

 

[Carson Ranger]

FWIW I'm not Catholic and I went to Georgetown. I chose GU b/c it's in DC and because it had no fraternities. I didn't really make the connection between no frats and being Jesuit until the first week of school. GU doesn't have as high a concentration of Catholic students as other schools (Notre Dame for instance), but I met some amazing people there, including Jesuit instructors. Jesuits LOVE education. (Regis, can you hear me?).

P.S. I'm not sure how a C at MIT would be worth more than an A at a CC.

 

[DesertPT]

It was a surprise for me how many DPT programs that seem to be popular and have high reviews on this forum are Catholic/Jesuit/7th Day Adventist schools. It's a bummer, because I doubt I would feel comfortable going to a Catholic school (I'm an atheist).

IMHO, this totally doesn't matter. No school is going to care about your religion or lack thereof, and no school is going to force PT students to practice religious activities they don't want to. If there was a school that did require PT students to enroll in religion classes or something then obviously you wouldn't apply there (I'm pretty sure that doesn't actually exist), but if you are one of those people that is actually offended by some signage with quotes from the Bible around campus occasionally, you need to seriously lighten up...not saying you are...just saying...

 

[DesertPT]

There's got to be something wrong with the system if an A at a community college is worth more than a C at MIT.

Probably true...but unfortunately an A at community college earns you in the application process and a C from MIT earns you (ie, an A at CC helps you, but the C at MIT hurts you more than the A at CC helps). Grade inflation at easier colleges and universities is certainly rampant, and schools know that, but the reality is when it comes time to rank applicants and pick 50 from a pool of 1400 to send acceptances to, there simply isn't the manpower to evaluate everyone's "strength of schedule" so to speak. GPA therefore is the king of admissions and a 4.0 pre-req GPA from community college will get you a lot further than a 3.0 from MIT. I daresay the latter of the two people worked a lot harder and learned a lot more taking those classes, but unfortunately there isn't a lot you can do to "beat the system". Prestige is not really part of the PT profession like it is in medicine (sort of) or law (big time) and where you went to undergrad has minimal relevance to your application.

If that C is the only C you have then it probably won't be a deal breaker anywhere. If it is one of several then best of luck to you.

 

[Phyline]

IMHO, this totally doesn't matter. No school is going to care about your religion or lack thereof, and no school is going to force PT students to practice religious activities they don't want to. If there was a school that did require PT students to enroll in religion classes or something then obviously you wouldn't apply there (I'm pretty sure that doesn't actually exist), but if you are one of those people that is actually offended by some signage with quotes from the Bible around campus occasionally, you need to seriously lighten up...not saying you are...just saying...

I'm blissfully ignorant on this subject I saw several threads here about LLU and how strict they are about having students attend church (no thanks) and a LOR from a religious leader (no thanks), and that turned me off..... I'm sure though every school is different, but is there a way to know without actually visiting? I don't mean to offend anyone and am not offended (uncomfortable at most), just curious.

If that C is the only C you have then it probably won't be a deal breaker anywhere. If it is one of several then best of luck to you.

Yup, only C Have a 3.76 GPA (goddamn C), 162V 167Q 4.5 AW GRE.
I'm starting to gather that the PT system IS different from MD/PhD/JD, here's to adjusting

 

[DesertPT]

I'm blissfully ignorant on this subject I saw several threads here about LLU and how strict they are about having students attend church (no thanks) and a LOR from a religious leader (no thanks), and that turned me off..... I'm sure though every school is different, but is there a way to know without actually visiting? I don't mean to offend anyone and am not offended (uncomfortable at most), just curious

Huh, well I'm sure that sort of thing is something that can easily be determined by a phone call to any school you might be interested in.

Yup, only C Have a 3.76 GPA (goddamn C), 162V 167Q 4.5 AW GRE.
I'm starting to gather that the PT system IS different from MD/PhD/JD, here's to adjusting

Well you're GRE score will definitely help overshadow the C to some extent. You're GPA is still good, I probably wouldn't go through all the hassle to retake either.

You're verbal score is above average for PT school, and you're quant score is well above average for PT (for pretty much everything other than math/engineering actually).

Is that 3.76 your cumulative GPA or pre-req? and what is the other one?

 

[Phyline]

Is that 3.76 your cumulative GPA or pre-req? and what is the other one?

This is cumulative. I don't know my pre-req GPA, because I have yet to take at least 5

 

[DesertPT]

This is cumulative. I don't know my pre-req GPA, because I have yet to take at least 5

Nice...just get A's in those remaining 5 and you'll be just fine.

 

[Phyline]

Nice...just get A's in those remaining 5 and you'll be just fine.

Whoop!

 

[camiosyz]

Lots of good advice already. The only thing I can add from my own personal experience is to check for prerequisites for the prerequisites. I finished undergrad in 2008, and by the time I started my prerequisites, my math credits were old enough that I had to retake them in order to get into the gen chem/physics series. I wasn't planning to have to take 3 additional math classes, and it really put me behind. Your school may have different requirements/allow you to test into the class, but it's still something to check out when putting together your plan.

Definitely this. I'm a non-trad who majored in economics & political science and works in business operations. Needless to say, I had to take ALLTHEPREREQS. My timing on some classes had to be adjusted because of additional prereqs for the prereqs I didn't notice at the time (my school requires cell bio before taking physiology).

I know time is of the essence, but it might be ideal to ease in to get yourself readjusted, especially if you've never taken college-level science courses or have been out of school for a long time. I spread my prereqs out over 2.5 years; not necessary, but it allowed me to continue making money, get decent observation hours, and take the GRE. I started off taking the chem sequence to make sure I could be successful in the sciences while staying full-time at work. Once I proved I could, I dropped to part-time at work and loaded up on 16 credit hour science-only semesters to finish up the bulk (I actually did the best during those busy semesters). I'm wrapping up my last two classes and was able to receive an interview at 1 school of 4 that I applied to. It's not great stats, but I didn't cast my net very far, and they were very competitive programs. Hope this helps and good luck!

 

[DesertPT]

...my school requires cell bio before taking physiology...

Was this for a lower division A&P sequence (ie. the typical PT pre-req A&P classes)? I could see this for an upper division advanced physiology class maybe...but either way cell bio is a great class to take, I honestly think everyone should probably take it anyway.

 

[camiosyz]

Was this for a lower division A&P sequence (ie. the typical PT pre-req A&P classes)? I could see this for an upper division advanced physiology class maybe...but either way cell bio is a great class to take, I honestly think everyone should probably take it anyway.

Negative, my school offers separate anatomy and physiology courses (CU required separate courses vs the A&P sequence unless you got prior approval), and cell bio was only required before phys. Agreed that it was definitely helpful though!

 

[Edmo15]

Andd.....I'm all signed up for classes in January. Just doing A&P 1, Bio 1 (retake. Had a B in the lecture and a C in the lab...and really, I just need some brushing up on BIO in the first place and Cs give me hives anyway sooo lol) and Psych 1100.

What are suggestions on books? Any of you guys and gals actually keep any after the fact?

I'm on the fence for either buying a used A&P Book too keep as reference or taking the cheaper option of renting or "borrowing the text" online as that sucker is bloody expensive.



[Question on GPAs. Does my undergrad matter so much since I basically have to take all the science pre-reqs? Sadly with Journalism at Mizzou, you can't be ****** with classes in general when it's all about the portfolio of media work you put together so I ended up with a 3.1 cumulative. I blame that on my idiocy of taking the 5 cred macro/micro economics class. I got slaughtered with a C, so that basically counted as 2 Cs for GPA. Yesh. Totally boned me.) I plan on getting As on every pre-req course come hell or high water even if I study until my eyes bleed.]

 

[DesertPT]

Andd.....I'm all signed up for classes in January. Just doing A&P 1, Bio 1 (retake. Had a B in the lecture and a C in the lab...and really, I just need some brushing up on BIO in the first place and Cs give me hives anyway sooo lol) and Psych 1100.

What are suggestions on books? Any of you guys and gals actually keep any after the fact?

I'm on the fence for either buying a used A&P Book too keep as reference or taking the cheaper option of renting or "borrowing the text" online as that sucker is bloody expensive.



[Question on GPAs. Does my undergrad matter so much since I basically have to take all the science pre-reqs? Sadly with Journalism at Mizzou, you can't be ****** with classes in general when it's all about the portfolio of media work you put together so I ended up with a 3.1 cumulative. I blame that on my idiocy of taking the 5 cred macro/micro economics class. I got slaughtered with a C, so that basically counted as 2 Cs for GPA. Yesh. Totally boned me.) I plan on getting As on every pre-req course come hell or high water even if I study until my eyes bleed.]

Yes, cumulative GPA does matter big time. But you can get away with a 3.1 if you apply strategically (eg. schools that have a cGPA minimum of 2.75 or 2.9 - there are a small handful - or schools that have an average GPA of ~3.4-3.5 for accepted applicants instead of like 3.7, or schools that seems to emphasize other parts of the application, etc - maybe talk to some admissions counselors at schools of interest), have a 4.0 pre-req (or close to), kill the GRE (>160 verbal and quant, 4.5 or greater on writing), have diverse observation hours, strong LORs, and a fascinating essay.

Also, realize that as far as that C in econ goes, even if it was 5 credits, considering that you took >120 credits to get a bachelor's, getting an A in econ instead of a C would have maybe given you a 3.2 instead of a 3.1. So don't feel like that class made a whole big world of difference.

As for books, avoid buying them. You won't reference them or need them once the class is over. If it seems like having the text is necessary for success in the class, hop on Amazon and rent a used copy. Seems to generally be the cheapest option. For me I didn't even touch the textbook in intro to Psych or Gen Bio (teachers generally have everything you need to know for the test on ppt slides, etc.). But it just depends on the class. For A&P a book was not absolutely necessary, but I found it helpful as it was an excellent book. For a fantastic general overview of A&P I highly recommend Saladin. It's undergrad level of detail, but it is really easy to read and contains all the essentials. This is the only undergrad book that I look things up in regularly out of interest.

 

[Edmo15]

Yes, cumulative GPA does matter big time. But you can get away with a 3.1 if you apply strategically (eg. schools that have a cGPA minimum of 2.75 or 2.9 - there are a small handful - or schools that have an average GPA of ~3.4-3.5 for accepted applicants instead of like 3.7, or schools that seems to emphasize other parts of the application, etc - maybe talk to some admissions counselors at schools of interest), have a 4.0 pre-req (or close to), kill the GRE (>160 verbal and quant, 4.5 or greater on writing), have diverse observation hours, strong LORs, and a fascinating essay.

I was just using ECON as a big reference in a semester from hell in which I took one of my reporting classes as well on top of a BIO class that was poorly taught by a TA. Though really, a 6 hour Japanese classes for Bs doesn't help so much for 3.5s, neither does taking hard ass Asian Philosophy courses.

I DO have to take 13 classes though (since I'm re-taking GEN BIO, so that's basically 42-45 additional additional credit hours). And there is the fact that GEN BIO is the only science course on my current transcript. I went heavy poli-sci as a minor along with east asian studies.

How would schools even combine GPAs from two different schools?

I highly recommend Saladin. It's undergrad level of detail, but it is really easy to read and contains all the essentials. This is the only undergrad book that I look things up in regularly out of interest.

So that'd basically be the only thing I'd need for A&P unless I come to the conclusion I need the text?

Any visual references I should be looking at getting?

 

[DesertPT]

How would schools even combine GPAs from two different schools?

I don't really get the question. You'll have a cumulative GPA, which is calculated using all the college coursework you have ever taken using a standardized system (ie. the method PTCAS uses unless you are applying to non-PTCAS schools). You will also have a pre-req GPA, which PTCAS will also calculate using a standard set of typical "core" pre-reqs, and which each school will also calculate based on their own specific pre-reqs (which may or may not vary from PTCAS's calculation). You will have numerous other GPAs, including a science GPA which can be used to rank applicants by a few schools out there. But for the most part, cGPA and pre-req GPA are the ones that matter. Which school you took which class at is irrelevant.

So that'd basically be the only thing I'd need for A&P unless I come to the conclusion I need the text?

Again, I don't quite get the question. Saladin as I mentioned is a textbook (http://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-amp-P...ds=saladin+anatomy+and+physiology+6th+edition). Currently on 7e, I'd pick up a used copy of 6e or even 5e for cheap as very little has changed.

If this is not the text your instructor uses for A&P, it would be overkill to get 2 books IMO.

 

[Edmo15]

gain, I don't quite get the question. Saladin as I mentioned is a textbook

You mentioned an A&P book wasn't absolutely necessary and mentioned Saladin. What I meant was, if I didn't choose to get a textbook off the bat, if there was anything other sort of study material drastically cheaper (like a visual guide) I'd invest in until/if I came to the conclusion I needed the actual textbook.

As far as what my particular class requires, it's the following:

http://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Physi...&qid=1419303151&sr=1-1&keywords=9780321876287

But for the most part, cGPA and pre-req GPA are the ones that matter. Which school you took which class at is irrelevant.

Oh I was just wondering in general as the school I got my bachelor's degree at was on the plus/minus system while the community college I'm enrolled in for pre-reqs is a straight A-F scale.

I assume then, based on how you answered, that my cumulative GPA is still only my undergrad GPA? And that my pre-req GPA from the CC won't be added in somehow? That's what I was wondering. If the two different GPAs would be looked at separately and I'd have no new cGPA.

At any rate, how much would a 3.8ish-4.0 pre-req GPA and Science GPA offset my old cumulative bachelor's degree GPA in general?

 

[Watson27]

@Edmo15 Here is the link to how PTCAS calculates GPAs https://portal.ptcas.org/ptcasHelpPages/frequently-asked-questions/grade-point-averages/index.html

Every single class you have ever taken at any college or university is included. Check out the link. It will answer all your questions.

As far as how much As and Bs in pre-reqs will raise your cumulative GPA, you can do the math and find out exactly what your final GPA will be.

 

[DesertPT]

You mentioned an A&P book wasn't absolutely necessary and mentioned Saladin. What I meant was, if I didn't choose to get a textbook off the bat, if there was anything other sort of study material drastically cheaper (like a visual guide) I'd invest in until/if I came to the conclusion I needed the actual textbook.

As far as what my particular class requires, it's the following:

http://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Physi...&qid=1419303151&sr=1-1&keywords=9780321876287

Based on the fact that that book is a first edition and has no reviews on Amazon, I would avoid it.

Oh I was just wondering in general as the school I got my bachelor's degree at was on the plus/minus system while the community college I'm enrolled in for pre-reqs is a straight A-F scale.

I assume then, based on how you answered, that my cumulative GPA is still only my undergrad GPA? And that my pre-req GPA from the CC won't be added in somehow? That's what I was wondering. If the two different GPAs would be looked at separately and I'd have no new cGPA.

At any rate, how much would a 3.8ish-4.0 pre-req GPA and Science GPA offset my old cumulative bachelor's degree GPA in general?

No, like I said before, your cumulative GPA includes every college class of any kind you have ever taken ever, any time, any school, any class, at any point in your life for any reason. Ever.

With that being said, the GPA you earn during the course of your bachelors degree is generally fairly resistant to change due to post-bacc work because you already have so many credits (ie. taking PT pre-reqs at community college and getting A's won't change a low cumulative GPA by leaps and bounds because it's hard to change an average when the amount of values being factored in is large). However, getting straight A's in your pre-reqs is obviously in your best interest as it will help you cGPA to some extent and pre-req GPA is also very important.

If the college you went to used plus minus and the CC you are at now doesn't, it doesn't matter. You just enter your classes into PTCAS exactly as they appear on your transcript. See the link that Watson27 posted.

I think this whole thing would make a lot more sense to you if you went ahead and read the PTCAS instructions.

 

[Edmo15]

Based on the fact that that book is a first edition and has no reviews on Amazon, I would avoid it.

This wouldn't be the first time I've avoided the book the professor/school required. Back in undergrad, many of my instructors always hated the books the school often required us to have. I mean HATED them. But then......I also had profs requiring their own book......which really sucked in some cases. Gotta love the bureaucracy/marketing for textbooks.

So, given that's the case then, stick with your suggestion of a textbook if I require it? I mean, the general information would be the same, wouldn't it? Just presented in a different way?

 

[DesertPT]

So, given that's the case then, stick with your suggestion of a textbook if I require it? I mean, the general information would be the same, wouldn't it? Just presented in a different way?

Ya probably. Just depends on how the particular instructor presents it and what is emphasized. If they are the type that takes exam questions straight out of the text, then it might be better to have the book they were using. But for your own personal benefit Saladin is probably the best undergrad level A&P book.