List of medical schools by curriculum type? (PBL, traditional or combined)

[Hastur]

Other than "buried deep within the MSAR", where's a good place to find a list of medical schools by either or both:

* How much PBL (problem-based learning) they use in their curriculum

* Whether it's a traditional "separate classes" curriculum or a combined curriculum

?

And if there isn't one previously in existence, can we make one here?

Thanks!

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[NickNaylor]

I doubt that such a list exists. I think that most schools are straight didactic, some are predominantly didactic with a little PBL mixed in, and a few are straight PBL (e.g., Ivy-grade schools).

You could try getting a project together, but that'd be pretty ambitious since that's a lot of websites to look through.

 

[mauberley]

It would also be a tough list to maintain, as schools' curricula can be in constant flux.

 

[Morzh]

All the schools I've interviewed at do some mix of everything... traditional didactic, PBL a few times a week, random clinical skills a few times a week, etc. The balance varies greatly. I think the vast majority of schools would be combined.

Plus such a list would quickly become outdated since most schools seem to modify their curricula every few years.

 

[HumbleMD]

Things that matter in a curriculum:
Amount of class time and amount of small group time
Textbooks vs. notes, and whether or not they're printed/provided
Early exposure to clinical patients
Amount/presence of "humanism" courses
Having enough lecture space for all students
How the school does on Step 1, and how much protected time you get to study
How sure you are to get accessible clerkship locations
How protective the school is of their students out on rotations (in case you run into a bad resident/attending)
Amount of elective time in 4th year

Things that DON'T matter:
Whatever the heck they call it (PBL, Organ-based, whatever). I saw some weird Caribbean school use the word "problem-based learning" and it was clear they had no idea what it meant. Few pre-meds or med students do either.

You're always going to be doing case presentations/"problems" in a small group setting no matter the school's curriculum is called.

 

[aSagacious]

How protective the school is of their students out on rotations (in case you run into a bad resident/attending)

I've heard some horror stories regarding unrelenting scut work for M3s during rotations. I'm sure every school claims to have a DGME or protocol that protects their students, but how can one be sure?

 

[Scherbatsky]

Things that matter in a curriculum:
Amount of class time and amount of small group time
Textbooks vs. notes, and whether or not they're printed/provided
Early exposure to clinical patients
Amount/presence of "humanism" courses
Having enough lecture space for all students
How the school does on Step 1, and how much protected time you get to study
How sure you are to get accessible clerkship locations
How protective the school is of their students out on rotations (in case you run into a bad resident/attending)
Amount of elective time in 4th year

Things that DON'T matter:
Whatever the heck they call it (PBL, Organ-based, whatever). I saw some weird Caribbean school use the word "problem-based learning" and it was clear they had no idea what it meant. Few pre-meds or med students do either.

You're always going to be doing case presentations/"problems" in a small group setting no matter the school's curriculum is called.

How can we find out about these before enrolling at a school?

 

[HumbleMD]

How can we find out about these before enrolling at a school?

Scutwork protection is a tough one. At Penn we are VERY protected by the administration. Which of course, every school claims to be. Maybe look for a formalized structure for reporting abuse that the school advertises? We have about 5 different ways to file a complaint, all published in the curriculum materials.

Avg. Step 1 scores are usually word of mouth. They may be published somewhere but I have no idea. Where you rotate for clerkships might be available at a given school's website, as is amount of elective time in your 4th year and protected Step 1 study time.

For the most part, many of these are only answerable by asking current med students on your interview day. They may or may not give you a straightforward honest answer (or an informed one - I didn't realize how good I had until talking to other med students at other schools).

For the most part, absence of proof is usually a proof of absence.

 

[Donnie1310]

Avg. Step 1 scores are usually word of mouth. They may be published somewhere but I have no idea. Where you rotate for clerkships might be available at a given school's website, as is amount of elective time in your 4th year and protected Step 1 study time.

ie every single school has "higher than average" step one scores on interview day

So far I've only had one school give its numeric score

 

[HumbleMD]

ie every single school has "higher than average" step one scores on interview day

So far I've only had one school give its numeric score

You'll run into a lot of that on interview day. It's good to start developing your bull**** meter now; you'll certainly need it later.

Yeah, it's a tough one. For what it's worth, Penn's average is 240.

 

[NickNaylor]

ie every single school has "higher than average" step one scores on interview day

So far I've only had one school give its numeric score

I found that schools are more than willing to share pretty much any statistic with you once you're accepted (i.e., at a second look event). Very few schools outright shared their average at the interview day.

 

[Scherbatsky]

Thanks all! *switches bull**** meter on*

 

[wanderer]

I found that schools are more than willing to share pretty much any statistic with you once you're accepted (i.e., at a second look event). Very few schools outright shared their average at the interview day.

Most schools say on interview day that they perform "slightly better" than the national mean. I think it mostly matters on the students coming in. I suppose if a school only gives something like 4 weeks for the boards it might not be ideal, but it shouldn't be a major factor when it comes to picking schools.

 

[WorldChanger36]

Things that matter in a curriculum:
Amount of class time and amount of small group time
Textbooks vs. notes, and whether or not they're printed/provided
Early exposure to clinical patients
Amount/presence of "humanism" courses
Having enough lecture space for all students
How the school does on Step 1, and how much protected time you get to study
How sure you are to get accessible clerkship locations
How protective the school is of their students out on rotations (in case you run into a bad resident/attending)
Amount of elective time in 4th year

Things that DON'T matter:
Whatever the heck they call it (PBL, Organ-based, whatever). I saw some weird Caribbean school use the word "problem-based learning" and it was clear they had no idea what it meant. Few pre-meds or med students do either.

You're always going to be doing case presentations/"problems" in a small group setting no matter the school's curriculum is called.

How could you find out about these types of things in bold? What is PBL anyways and what makes it different from other ways? Why would a person avoid or flock to this type of learning?

 

[HumbleMD]

Few people are going to do your homework for you kids. Do you spend any time at the respective school's websites? They tend to report a curriculum which would address the majority of these issues. The remainder are more word of mouth, or would be apparent on interview day (and would make great questions to ask your student interviewer or tour guide).