list of schools where it is notoriously hard to get a good gpa

[xroc]

That doesn't mean your undergrad was hard. It probably means your undergrad had low quality students.

Yeah, I agree with you. I never made the claim that it was hard. I was just comparing it what someone else quoted as a "low" graduation rate for a community college.

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[bofocion]

UCLA is definitely the #1 sexiest school

Sourdough you wanted some data/rankings instead of rumors and personal biases? http://www.thedailybeast.com/galler...tos.html#9cdb45a8-71ae-4f58-875b-e0fa5705581a

ps: sorry for minor derailment OP

 

[Plue00]

MIT
Caltech
Princeton
UChicago
Cornell
JHU

Those 6 are the ones that REALLY stand out out of the top 25, but all of the top schools are probably harder than the other ~4000 schools out there.

Swarthmore is also up there along with similar LACs.

I would say all of the top 25-30 schools are hard no matter what grades are given out. Harvard and Yale probably give out what their students DESERVE as compared to Princeton, which just deflates.

Most students from top schools could probably go to any unranked school and get a 3.8+

I don't think most people on SDN know how crappy colleges can get after the top ~100 colleges in the US. I've actually studied and researched such things with professors.

http://web.archive.org/web/20000829094953/http://www.pcmagic.net/abe/gradeadj.htm

Also, I think a lot of people tend to think the UCs (UCB/UCLA) are especially hard. This isn't actually true at all. These schools have a massive amount of community college transfers that lower the quality of the school and it's 4/6 year graduation rates. These students are usually the ones that are doing bad at UCB/UCLA and consistently complain about how hard the school is. I never understood the high regard for these two schools when they have such a low graduation rate compared to schools of their caliber.

 

[imymemine]

UCHICAGO

it's been several years since i graduated, but... IDK, i think there is a wide range of difficulty at uchicago. some classes have a reputation for being impossible, particularly in honors math, which very few premeds would take. if you are not a very strong writer you may "struggle" (ie a B here and there) in core classes and whatnot. but i thought intro-level science - typical premed classes - were very reasonable. not saying it's a walk in the park... they don't hand out As... but they're not maliciously curving either. if you are set on a high GPA i think that is quite attainable if you avoid your weaknesses and load up on stuff you are good at (but what's the fun of that?)

i think the GPA-killing reputation is largely built on what the school was 20-30 years ago when the average GPA was around 3.0. it's not anywhere near that bad anymore. regardless, it is not uncommon for people with 3.5-3.6 to get into med school, even top 25s.

 

[sourdoughllama]

.

 

[kevin2400]

Did a little searching and found a quote from this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/schools-with-biggest-grade-deflation.731720/

Alright, here's a list of the top 25 schools ranked by US News in the order of lowest average GPA to highest average GPA (according to gradeinflation.com's latest figure):

(I also included the 75th percentile of SAT score from collegeboard so we can have some sort of comparison between the relative academic caliber of the student bodies... The average GPA's aren't listed anywhere, so I just went with the 75th percentile scores.)

School, average GPA, USNews rank, 75th percentile SAT score

1. UVA , 3.21, 24, 2150
2. UCLA, 3.22, 24, 2110
3. Johns Hopkins, 3.24, 14, 2230
4. Berkeley, 3.27, 21, 2190
5. Princeton, 3.28, 1, 2360
6. Rice, 3.3 (9 years ago, likely to be closer to 3.4 now), 17, 2270
7. Vanderbilt, 3.32, 17, 2270
8. UChic, 3.35, 8, 2320
9. Cornell, 3.36, 15, 2250 (1.5x(CR+Math))
10. Emory, 3.38, 17, 2220
11. Northwestern, 3.41, 12, 2280
12. WUSTL, 3.41, 12, 2300 (SAT writing score not listed, so I just did 1.5x(CR+Math))
13. Dartmouth, 3.42, 11, 2330
14. Columbia, 3.42, 8, 2320
15. Georgetown, 3.42, 23, 2250 (1.5x(CR+Math))
16. UPenn, 3.44, 4, 2290
17. Duke, 3.44, 10, 2290
18. Harvard, 3.45, 1, 2350
19. Yale, 3.51, 3, 2370
20. Stanford, 3.55, 4, 2300
21. Brown, 3.61, 16, 2310

Schools excluded (data not available or over 10 years old): Caltech , MIT, Notre Dame, Carnegie Mellon.

Unsurprisingly, the schools with the most grade inflation also had the highest SAT scores. Princeton has the 5th lowest average GPA of the top 25, and the second highest SAT score of the top 25 (second to Yale, which has an average GPA of 3.51). Also, Georgetown has an average GPA almost the same as Harvard's, but 100 points lower in SAT score - how come no one thinks of Georgetown when grade inflation is mentioned?

Oh, and Brown's grades are jokes.

being a UCLA alumnus myself, I'd say it was pretty damn hard haha... but i think we can all agree Princeton... is on another level!

 

[Plue00]

Did a little searching and found a quote from this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/schools-with-biggest-grade-deflation.731720/

Alright, here's a list of the top 25 schools ranked by US News in the order of lowest average GPA to highest average GPA (according to gradeinflation.com's latest figure):

(I also included the 75th percentile of SAT score from collegeboard so we can have some sort of comparison between the relative academic caliber of the student bodies... The average GPA's aren't listed anywhere, so I just went with the 75th percentile scores.)

School, average GPA, USNews rank, 75th percentile SAT score

1. UVA , 3.21, 24, 2150
2. UCLA, 3.22, 24, 2110
3. Johns Hopkins, 3.24, 14, 2230
4. Berkeley, 3.27, 21, 2190
5. Princeton, 3.28, 1, 2360
6. Rice, 3.3 (9 years ago, likely to be closer to 3.4 now), 17, 2270
7. Vanderbilt, 3.32, 17, 2270
8. UChic, 3.35, 8, 2320
9. Cornell, 3.36, 15, 2250 (1.5x(CR+Math))
10. Emory, 3.38, 17, 2220
11. Northwestern, 3.41, 12, 2280
12. WUSTL, 3.41, 12, 2300 (SAT writing score not listed, so I just did 1.5x(CR+Math))
13. Dartmouth, 3.42, 11, 2330
14. Columbia, 3.42, 8, 2320
15. Georgetown, 3.42, 23, 2250 (1.5x(CR+Math))
16. UPenn, 3.44, 4, 2290
17. Duke, 3.44, 10, 2290
18. Harvard, 3.45, 1, 2350
19. Yale, 3.51, 3, 2370
20. Stanford, 3.55, 4, 2300
21. Brown, 3.61, 16, 2310

Schools excluded (data not available or over 10 years old): Caltech , MIT, Notre Dame, Carnegie Mellon.

Unsurprisingly, the schools with the most grade inflation also had the highest SAT scores. Princeton has the 5th lowest average GPA of the top 25, and the second highest SAT score of the top 25 (second to Yale, which has an average GPA of 3.51). Also, Georgetown has an average GPA almost the same as Harvard's, but 100 points lower in SAT score - how come no one thinks of Georgetown when grade inflation is mentioned?

Oh, and Brown's grades are jokes.


being a UCLA alumnus myself, I'd say it was pretty damn hard haha... but i think we can all agree Princeton... is on another level!

Yeah, I go to UVA and I think it's tough here, but I seriously doubt we're harder than JHU, Princeton, or Cornell

 

[Reckoner]

If we're including LACs then Coolidge College should definitely be on the list as well

 

[Lucca]

Did a little searching and found a quote from this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/schools-with-biggest-grade-deflation.731720/



being a UCLA alumnus myself, I'd say it was pretty damn hard haha... but i think we can all agree Princeton... is on another level!

This is some pretty interesting data. I'm kind of surprised that the average GPA is so high at Brown though. That's pretty insane.

 

[Syndicate]

I believe @LizzyM mentioned that at least at her school, the adcoms have a list of schools put into categories of "impossible to get good gpa (aka Reed college)", "really hard to get good gpa (Princeton, JHU, Cornell, MIT, etc)", "hard to get good gpa", etc etc.

 

[LizzyM]

I believe @LizzyM mentioned that at least at her school, the adcoms have a list of schools put into categories of "impossible to get good gpa (aka Reed college)", "really hard to get good gpa (Princeton, JHU, Cornell, MIT, etc)", "hard to get good gpa", etc etc.

It's more like we have a list in our head. we also know the average gpa of AMCAS applicants from each school, IIRC, so we can get a feel for whether a specific applicant is above or below the avg for that school's pool of med school applicants.

 

[moop]

Princeton. Nightmares of deciding to be premed at Pton still haunt me.

 

[chickenpox]

I literally dont want to hear it. I went to Gettysburg College as a Biochemistry & Molecular Biology major and just barely made it out with a 3.2 overall. I then went to JHU for graduate school BMB and laughed my way out of there with a 3.91. The undergrad students taking our courses complained how hard it was. What a joke.

Grad courses aren't usually grade-deflated though, it applies more to undergrad.

 

[moop]

Grad courses aren't usually grade-deflated though, it applies more to undergrad.

It's also a lot different looking back as a grad student and saying that undergrads in the same class found it hard. That makes sense that you fared better than those younger with less academic experience, right?

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Cornell
JHU
Chicago
Stanford
Princeton
MIT
Cal Tech

Stanford is a joke. You can drop without transcript problems just days before the final. Cornell is no harder or easier than any other ivy.

 

[Syndicate]

Stanford is a joke. You can drop without transcript problems just days before the final. Cornell is no harder or easier than any other ivy.

Hmm perhaps.

Edited list:
JHU
Chicago
Princeton
MIT
Cal Tech

 

[Arayh]

Stanford is a joke. You can drop without transcript problems just days before the final. Cornell is no harder or easier than any other ivy.

Yeah Cornell is about the same for biology/pre meds unless you're in the Engineering college with its above average suicide rate for difficult majors/classes.

 

[moop]

Stanford is a joke. You can drop without transcript problems just days before the final. Cornell is no harder or easier than any other ivy.

That's doesn't mean good GPAs are easy to come by. One can only bank on dropping classes at the last minute so much so before credit counts get in the way. It would be a lot different if one could drop grades from the transcript ex post facto, but that isn't the case here..

Judging by premed admittance GPAs from their premed committee, Stanford is no different than any other Ivy (besides Pton).

 

[TotalDomination]

it's been several years since i graduated, but... IDK, i think there is a wide range of difficulty at uchicago. some classes have a reputation for being impossible, particularly in honors math, which very few premeds would take. if you are not a very strong writer you may "struggle" (ie a B here and there) in core classes and whatnot. but i thought intro-level science - typical premed classes - were very reasonable. not saying it's a walk in the park... they don't hand out As... but they're not maliciously curving either. if you are set on a high GPA i think that is quite attainable if you avoid your weaknesses and load up on stuff you are good at (but what's the fun of that?)

i think the GPA-killing reputation is largely built on what the school was 20-30 years ago when the average GPA was around 3.0. it's not anywhere near that bad anymore. regardless, it is not uncommon for people with 3.5-3.6 to get into med school, even top 25s.

Average premed gpa is a 3.1-3.2 homie. Much lower than peer institutions. If you take legitimate classes (as in you don't wuss out and take entry level bio classes), you will not get an A unless you absolutely deserve it (and even so you may not). I took honors math as a premed, personally. And a million upper level and grad bios. In my experience at UChicago, it is either you a) take the easy route and load up on entry level classes or classes with easier professors and go for the grades or b)challenge yourself with difficult classes and end up with mostly B's and the occasional reward of an A. Immunobiology, for example, is curved to a C-. Professors in so many of my classes (esp the grad ones) refuse to hand out A's. The trend I see (in my n=~50 sample) is that the people who load up on easy classes end up at top schools (like duke, stanford, upenn, and umich) and people who challenge themselves end up either not getting in or getting into mediocre schools. So yes, I think difficulty varies dramatically based on the classes you take. Another example is a class like Animal Behavior. One year, there is a notoriously difficult professor, and the alternate year the class is beyond easy. Anyway, the point is, I think at UChicago, really promising students don't make it into medical school because they decided to challenge themselves. I don't think it's fair to punish students for not settling for complacency and pushing their mental boundaries. But I believe the system is at fault here and not the students.

That being said, yes I do know of people with lower gpa's from uchicago getting into top schools. Additionally, I know UChicago is working on not ruining the lives of most of their premeds. They have new bio calc classes and a much much better advising staff than in previous years. I feel like I opened a can of worms and am going to carefully back away now...

EDIT: I'm not complaining about grade deflation. I actually think not getting the grades I felt I deserved significantly helped me get over this obsession with grades and expand my thinking.

 

[sourdoughllama]

Average premed gpa is a 3.1-3.2 homie. Much lower than peer institutions. If you take legitimate classes (as in you don't wuss out and take entry level bio classes), you will not get an A unless you absolutely deserve it (and even so you may not). I took honors math as a premed, personally. And a million upper level and grad bios. In my experience at UChicago, it is either you a) take the easy route and load up on entry level classes or classes with easier professors and go for the grades or b)challenge yourself with difficult classes and end up with mostly B's and the occasional reward of an A. Immunobiology, for example, is curved to a C-. Professors in so many of my classes (esp the grad ones) refuse to hand out A's. The trend I see (in my n=~50 sample) is that the people who load up on easy classes end up at top schools (like duke, stanford, upenn, and umich) and people who challenge themselves end up either not getting in or getting into mediocre schools. So yes, I think difficulty varies dramatically based on the classes you take. Another example is a class like Animal Behavior. One year, there is a notoriously difficult professor, and the alternate year the class is beyond easy. Anyway, the point is, I think at UChicago, really promising students don't make it into medical school because they decided to challenge themselves. I don't think it's fair to punish students for not settling for complacency and pushing their mental boundaries. But I believe the system is at fault here and not the students.

That can be said for most "legit" schools though (like top 100 or whatever)

 

[TotalDomination]

That can be said for most "legit" schools though (like top 100 or whatever)

Sure, of course. This is based solely on my experience. I haven't attended other schools for such a wide range of classes so I can't really make a judgment about them. I do think though, that when students seem exceptionally bright but their grades and thus their success rate for getting into med school is so much lower than peer institutions (like 40-50% vs >90%), it's a red flag. I know UChicago wants to keep the "life of the mind" thing going and the "yes this is hell deal with it" mentality, but professors should keep in mind that compared to students from many of our peer institutions, we look like idiots because our GPAs are so much lower. Sure a ton of UChicago kids do well on their mcats, but that's only part of the application. I'm very conflicted on this issue because I love the fact that professors have this "i'm not going to give you an A go eff yourself" mindset but also hate the fact that the same mindset has generated a lower than normal gpa for me and a lot of my friends. I can't really claim to take one side on this issue.

I think "top 100" is stretching it. In my view, ranking has little to do with the difficulty of the school. Harvard is ranked 1 (or was idk where it is now) and I've taken comparable classes there. Definitely easier to get an A there in my opinion.

 

[slickwillbo]

Georgia Tech

True that. The 4-year graduation rate hovers in the 35% range, but the average SAT is north of 1400.

 

[Tawantinsuyu]

.

 

[imymemine]

Average premed gpa is a 3.1-3.2 homie. Much lower than peer institutions. If you take legitimate classes (as in you don't wuss out and take entry level bio classes), you will not get an A unless you absolutely deserve it (and even so you may not). I took honors math as a premed, personally. And a million upper level and grad bios. In my experience at UChicago, it is either you a) take the easy route and load up on entry level classes or classes with easier professors and go for the grades or b)challenge yourself with difficult classes and end up with mostly B's and the occasional reward of an A. Immunobiology, for example, is curved to a C-. Professors in so many of my classes (esp the grad ones) refuse to hand out A's. The trend I see (in my n=~50 sample) is that the people who load up on easy classes end up at top schools (like duke, stanford, upenn, and umich) and people who challenge themselves end up either not getting in or getting into mediocre schools. So yes, I think difficulty varies dramatically based on the classes you take. Another example is a class like Animal Behavior. One year, there is a notoriously difficult professor, and the alternate year the class is beyond easy. Anyway, the point is, I think at UChicago, really promising students don't make it into medical school because they decided to challenge themselves. I don't think it's fair to punish students for not settling for complacency and pushing their mental boundaries. But I believe the system is at fault here and not the students.

That being said, yes I do know of people with lower gpa's from uchicago getting into top schools. Additionally, I know UChicago is working on not ruining the lives of most of their premeds. They have new bio calc classes and a much much better advising staff than in previous years. I feel like I opened a can of worms and am going to carefully back away now...

EDIT: I'm not complaining about grade deflation. I actually think not getting the grades I felt I deserved significantly helped me get over this obsession with grades and expand my thinking.

i feel ya. i totally agree there are people who "game the system," and that some of the people who don't often end up in difficult situations. def seen it happen to people in my class too. it's not fair, although i'm not sure what the solution is. the hardest classes i took were usually my favorites; they are really what makes uchicago great.

premeds at uchicago should be careful how much of a challenge they take on at a time (but challenge themselves they should - or why even go there?). i have to say that even though i partook in some honors classes too, i'm not sure i would recommend that plan to any premed who i didn't know was definitely a genius. even then, moderation would be wise.

anyway, i didn't mean to diminish the frustration you must be feeling. i wasn't immune to Bs or the occasional C myself, i've been there. i guess it's just been awhile so perhaps i've forgotten a bit what it's like. if it's any consolation, or at least a small "light at the end of the tunnel," i'm finding the first two years of med school not bad at all. the work ethic and ability to think critically that i learned at chicago was excellent preparation. it will be for you, too.

 

[Reckoner]

What about Faber College? I've heard horror stories. Camden College too.

 

[shoal]

I am a Georgia tech grad and agree that it should be in the top 25 for sure. I graduated with highest honors with a gpa of 3.61. 98%tile mcat and got my school of choice but it could've been easier with a higher gpa and perhaps would've raked more scholarships. Work hard where ever you go.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

 

[albinopenguin]

Stanford is a joke. You can drop without transcript problems just days before the final. Cornell is no harder or easier than any other ivy.

Not quite accurate...our drop deadline is this Friday (you get a W on the transcript) Finals start in 3 weeks

 

[eatcheesecake]

MIT
Caltech
Princeton
UChicago
Cornell
JHU

Those 6 are the ones that REALLY stand out out of the top 25, but all of the top schools are probably harder than the other ~4000 schools out there.

Swarthmore is also up there along with similar LACs.

I would say all of the top 25-30 schools are hard no matter what grades are given out. Harvard and Yale probably give out what their students DESERVE as compared to Princeton, which just deflates.

Most students from top schools could probably go to any unranked school and get a 3.8+

I don't think most people on SDN know how crappy colleges can get after the top ~100 colleges in the US. I've actually studied and researched such things with professors.

http://web.archive.org/web/20000829094953/http://www.pcmagic.net/abe/gradeadj.htm

Also, I think a lot of people tend to think the UCs (UCB/UCLA) are especially hard. This isn't actually true at all. These schools have a massive amount of community college transfers that lower the quality of the school and it's 4/6 year graduation rates. These students are usually the ones that are doing bad at UCB/UCLA and consistently complain about how hard the school is. I never understood the high regard for these two schools when they have such a low graduation rate compared to schools of their caliber.

I'd also like to make a little note about difficulty at UCLA. I think it's a little brash to say difficulty at UCLA and Cal is "not true at all" and just blame all the complaints about difficulty on the amount of transfers at the school. Most transfers already come in with their basic science courses completed at community college so they can begin upper division courses. The bulk of the students taking the difficult premed prerequisites are first-year students, and plenty of 4-year students struggle throughout their whole undergrad, so please don't blame transfers for the reputation that things are hard. I'm not sure if it's outdated, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I recently read an article where teachers are required to only give 35% of the class As/A-s at most at Princeton. Most of the science classes I took at UCLA gave close to 20% and this is widely variable depending on what professors you have, so take it as you will. I admit to not having heard too much about Princeton's grading policy aside from the cap on As, so I apologize if that is inaccurate.

The difficulty at UCLA lies in the sheer number of premeds at the school. Our class size is huge and a large portion of that class begins as premed. As a result, if only 20% (or even 35%) are getting As, that's a huge number of students with dropping GPAs. I am not doubting the difficulty of the schools previously mentioned in any respect, but even if Princeton only gives out 35% As, that still affects a smaller number of students. On top of that, a lot of professors have a strong disdain for premeds, which I don't blame because most are grade-grubbing or sucking up for that letter of rec. But at the same time, in a class of 300 the competition becomes intense in order to get that A and people will do what they need to to get the grade they want. And the classes don't get much smaller once you get to upper-divs.

The fact that two-thirds of CA residents have to leave the state for medical school shows that there are huge numbers of us, and the competition at a school like UCLA with huge numbers of premeds is not to be discounted. The situation facing CA residents applying to medical school completely blows. The chance of getting into any of the schools here is about the same as getting in to a private school out-of-state. UCLA doesn't have a premed counselor or a premed committee. You are on your own to find the resources to help you succeed with this entire process. This is what you get with a public school and I knew that going in and I did just fine working my way through. It just means that the students who did make it to the application process (and trust me, tons drop it along the way), do deserve some regard that some may think is reserved for highly touted private schools.

Moreover, low graduation rates are, as someone mentioned, a result of the budget crisis in CA and the severe cuts at our schools. They don't have enough to offer classes that everyone needs to finish their major/minor/etc. in order to graduate. Most students (90%) just take one extra quarter to finish their degree which gets thrown into the 6-year graduation rate statistic which makes it seem like it's a lot harder to graduate. The difficulty in always getting classes means students are oftentimes forced to take some of their hardest classes in the same quarter which brings down GPAs. There is no luxury in spreading out these classes when you get a ****ty enrollment time. I just wanted to give a little personal insight for those of you who may think UCLA or Cal are lesser institutes because graduation rates may be lower or we have a large transfer population. Obviously I am a UCLA alum and I feel a sting when people don't give the students here some of the credit they deserve. Once again, this is not discrediting the difficulty at other schools. Just wanted to clarify.

TL;DR Don't knock UCLA (or Cal) too much when discussing difficulty. We may not be the hardest schools in the nation, but we are not without our own challenges.

 

[Thoroughbred_Med]

JHU, where people brush their teeth in the library bathrooms.

Phhhewwww! Glad to know I'm not the only one who does that, albeit not JHU student.

 

[sourdoughllama]

.

 

[L'unionfaitlaforce]

University of Maryland

 

[moop]

University of Maryland

CP or BC?

 

[L'unionfaitlaforce]

CP or BC?

Definitely CP. I'm surprised no one has mentioned it on here

 

[moop]

Definitely CP. I'm surprised no one has mentioned it on here

Ah. Is your MDApps ID wrong? The current profile linked says you applied in 2003

 

[L'unionfaitlaforce]

Definitely CP. I'm surprised no one has mentioned it on here

It IS wrong. Haha. I don't mind because it helps maintain my anonymity on SDN. I actually just finished my application cycle.

 

[bakedbeans18]

Cornell, Dartmouth, Princeton, Penn

 

[Lord Osis]

Surprise that nobody has ever mentioned RPI yet.

 

[bakedbeans18]

Surprise that nobody has ever mentioned RPI yet.

Because don't nobody curr bout RPI lol jk

 

[moop]

Cornell, Dartmouth, Princeton, Penn

Wait. Cornell, okay. Pton, def okay.

Dartmouth? Penn? "Notoriously hard"? Not according to the people I know there…and I know a good amount from Ivy Leadership Council.

 

[bakedbeans18]

I thought those were the 4 Ivies that weren't FOS lol

 

[moop]

I thought those were the 4 Ivies that weren't FOS lol

wth is FOS

 

[XmedBarney]

wth is FOS

FOS = "full of ****"

Read the stories about Dartmouth, that is one f'ed up school.

 

[moop]

FOS = "full of ****"

Read the stories about Dartmouth, that is one f'ed up school.

Oh lol. In my mind, only Brown and Dartmouth are the Ivies that are FOS. Seen many things at the other schools over the years and there are pretty intense people all around in high densities.

 

[asebasp]

I wouldn't say they're notoriously hard on overall GPA, but in terms of sGPA and pre-med courses, I'm surprised no one has mentioned WUSTL.

 

[orangeman25]

Not really. Harvard is notorious for grade inflation, whereas Princeton which has about the same caliber of students is famous for grade deflation.

In general, engineering schools tend to be misers about giving out A's everywhere and the public ivy's can wreak havoc on your GPA if you don't stay on top of your game.

What is a public ivy?

 

[XmedBarney]

What is a public ivy?

UC Berkeley,UCLA, UofM-AA, ... Basically public schools that have a history of producing top notch research, leaders in their fields and in general are considered pedigree schools, especially Berkeley.

 

[moop]

In general, the more "prestigious" the school, the tougher it is because they have more competitive students. And yes that is general so don't burn me.

Not really. Harvard is notorious for grade inflation, whereas Princeton which has about the same caliber of students is famous for grade deflation.

Even with "grade inflation" at HY, though, with the caliber of students around, it's no joke trying to get into the top ~30% of students in science classes to make an A/A-. The inflation really comes from a lack of grading distributions being used in non-STEM classes (humanities AND social science, not just the humanities). If a class has twenty excellent writers with great research skills, which is found quite commonly, professors will give them all As if they are above his threshold for an A. (This happens even at Princeton, because I've had professors who didn't give 2 ****s what the official bulletin says.) One certainly cannot simply label an Ivy as having "grade inflation" and make the case that anyone can get an A or 3.9. It's still tougher, but it just so happens that a good majority of students at the top Ivies can perform to exceed professors' expectations with great amounts of work. Transcripts don't give the full story.

 

[XmedBarney]

Even with "grade inflation" at HY, though, with the caliber of students around, it's no joke trying to get into the top ~30% of students in science classes to make an A/A-. The inflation really comes from a lack of grading distributions being used in non-STEM classes (humanities AND social science, not just the humanities). If a class has twenty excellent writers with great research skills, which is found quite commonly, professors will give them all As if they are above his threshold for an A. (This happens even at Princeton, because I've had professors who didn't give 2 ****s what the official bulletin says.) One certainly cannot simply label an Ivy as having "grade inflation" and make the case that anyone can get an A or 3.9. It's still tougher, but it just so happens that a good majority of students at the top Ivies can perform to exceed professors' expectations with great amounts of work. Transcripts don't give the full story.

Right, but 1) when the evaluation of a student's work is set at the university level, 2) and students from different colleges compete on the basis of this same evaluation, -->> students who attend colleges with an intellectually superior student body/colleges that overly penalize students, the student get's f'ed over in comparison with people from other schools.

 

[Served]

Cornell...

 

[Reckoner]

Do any of you know anything about Barnett College? I have a couple friends who go there, and they claim it's ridiculously difficult.