List of strong community IM Programs

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IVIG

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Would anyone have any experiences at some community based IM programs (smaller in size)? Looking for a list of some that have a good teaching environment and provides solid clinical training leaving open the option to pursue a fellowship.

Also would help if could mention how competitive the program is.

I am trying to give advice to a US med student who failed Gross Anatomy, performs very well in clinics, but below average step I 190's and step II early 200's. I think this student just doesn't test well because on rotations the student is knowledgeable and does a great job. The clinical rotations that the student did not honor were all ones where grade depended on shelf exam (most of the core rotations which were HP).

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virginia mason- seattle. although i don't think it's easy to get into because seattle is such a great location. very nice hospital, and residents seemed happy.
 
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I am at Mayo Jax for a sub-I right now. I found out it is a community program after I had already gotten here.
Pros:
It has really great attendings and residents who are very intelligent and lovet to teach. They are moving into a new hospital in April that is absolutely incredible with the most cutting edge equipment and astounding ancillary services. Small size - 8 residents per class, most are american grads with very rare FMG's.
Cons:
Patient population- a slight lack of bread and butter. Most are referalls from surrounding small community hospitals, abroad, or even places like Emory. They have EXTREMELY complex problems (most are transplant, autoimmune, and serious cancer cases), and little to no indigent care. Less hands-on nitty grittly, but still excellent training, good morning report and lectures, and good teaching.
It might be more competitive than most other 'community' programs because it is attached to Mayo (though not the status of Mayo-MN), has a fairly cush little schedule with good amount of time off and non call months, and the new facility will be like paradise. I would advise and away rotation with those step scores.
- Decent fellowship match, but definitely available and possible. They have few of their own in Jax, and my attending graduated from the program and did Neph at Vanderbilt, so definitely there.
Check it out, Jax is nice and is cheap and the program is worth a look!
 
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Check out Santa Clara Valley Medical Center in California... a good community program with great teaching and some peripheral ties to Stanford.

Also, if they count as community programs, Bayview-Johns Hopkins and Harbor-UCLA are both strong as well with good to very good fellowship placements.

Of these, SCVMC is probably the least competitive.
 
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Any more to add to the list?
I suppose I should also open up to all programs, not only community programs. Also, I think it would be better if there was some autonomy with patients at some point in contrast to a "cush" program where the attending physician is heavily involved in decision making. I am hoping to pick up on some hidden gems.

Any other advice appreciated.

As a side- I have another student who looks beautiful on paper (a page of publications, outstanding scores, outstanding preclinical grades) who is applying to a very competitive specialty but this student does not function well on the wards (disorganized presentations, poor people skills) - oh--the injustice of it all!
 
Would anyone have any experiences at some community based IM programs (smaller in size)? Looking for a list of some that have a good teaching environment and provides solid clinical training leaving open the option to pursue a fellowship.

Also would help if could mention how competitive the program is.

I am trying to give advice to a US med student who failed Gross Anatomy, performs very well in clinics, but below average step I 190's and step II early 200's. I think this student just doesn't test well because on rotations the student is knowledgeable and does a great job. The clinical rotations that the student did not honor were all ones where grade depended on shelf exam (most of the core rotations which were HP).

Scripps Green in San Diego is a great community program with multiple in-house fellowships. I think this student might have a tough time matching there, but I figured I'd throw it out.
 
The classification for community can get tricky. Looking on freida, you see many very good private hospitals listed as Community such as Virginia Mason in Seattle. Maricopa in Phoenix, Ochsner Clinic in New Orleans and even Cleveland Clinic in Ohio.

just an observation... i think all the above a quite competitive??
 
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riverside methodist hospital in columbus, OH is solid.
 
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I'm also in same boat as the student described above...... What about Mayo clinic in Arizona? Is it also a strong community program or is it university based and how competitive is it??
 
I'm also in same boat as the student described above...... What about Mayo clinic in Arizona? Is it also a strong community program or is it university based and how competitive is it??

Judging from prior threads (I did a search) and their website but absolutely no other firsthand knowledge of the program, it seems to be a largely community based program but is obviously affiliated with Mayo. A lot of the residents I believe are FMGs, so I don't imagine it's too competitive, but I could be wrong. I think they take 9 residents a year.
 
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Anybody know anything about the Cambridge Hospital's IM program? I know it's a community program, but it's Harvard affiliated and seems to draw people with very diverse and competitive backgrounds/med schools. also seems to be geared to people with strong interests in public health/underserved medicine. any input on how competitive this program is, and what about fellowship placement?
 
Bumping this thing.

Any updates in additon to those already here? Anything for Philly, Chicago, Atlantic coast?
 
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Bumping this thing.

Any updates in additon to those already here? Anything for Philly, Chicago, Atlantic coast?

Bayview is a strong community program. It is relatively competitive and has opportunities for research. The match list is quite strong for a community program. The training is no where near as strong as the main campus but as community programs go it is not too bad.

Check out this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=950170&highlight=Community
 
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Albert Einstein in Philadelphia.

I trained there. It has an excellent fellowship placement (better than some university programs), the program director is reallty active and does everything to put you in a good program/job.

also they are excellent recruiters, and the residents are really good. It's been always on top 10 in terms of ITE results.
 
Cedars Sinai in Los Angeles
Washington Medical Center in D.C.
Baylor UMC in Dallas
 
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Providence Portland. Check your Sanford guide, the #1 editor is the head of ID at PPMC, and also wrote the guide that many residents carry with them.

I will second Virginia Mason in Seattle as well. Scripps Mercy.

Also, Cedars-Sinai is losing the West LA VA to UCLA, not sure if that will affect your decision or not.
 
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Pennsylvania Hospital (not HUP - it's still a Penn affiliate though)
St. Vincent's (Indianapolis)
UC Northshore
Advocate Lutheran
Hennepin County (quite impressive, actually...I interviewed there...I don't think it gets the respect it deserves)
 
Pennsylvania Hospital (not HUP - it's still a Penn affiliate though)
St. Vincent's (Indianapolis)
UC Northshore
Advocate Lutheran
Hennepin County (quite impressive, actually...I interviewed there...I don't think it gets the respect it deserves)

What decides whether a program is a community or a university program. I know Harvard has 3 affiliated teaching hospitals that most would consider university programs, but for Pennsylvania Hospital, what makes it a community program rather than a university program.
 
There is a DO in our current intern class at Cedars-Sinai

Who probably got 240+ on step 1.


In anycase, I think the OP is a little misguided in thinking that the strong community programs are necessarily easier to match into than lower tier Univ. programs.

With the step scores listed a strong community program like Cedars is out of the question.
 
What decides whether a program is a community or a university program. I know Harvard has 3 affiliated teaching hospitals that most would consider university programs, but for Pennsylvania Hospital, what makes it a community program rather than a university program.

The strength of the affiliation.

Big institutions usually have many satellite hospitals, and usually there is 'the' university hospital(s) that is/are the major affiliate(s). The rest are often just community hospitals who milk the 'university affiliation' for all it's worth (yes, UC Northshore is a 'UC affiliate', but they're not kidding anyone when they try to talk themselves up like they're on a par with the 'real UC' etc). Yes, Pennsy is a Penn affiliate, but nobody in the know is gonna confuse it with HUP (at least as far as IM residencies are concerned).

Harvard is one of the few exceptions, as they have several hospitals that each have sterling reputations and excellent residency programs.
 
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Does anyone have any info about Exempla St. Joseph in Denver? Is it a solid community program? Besides the their website and a couple old reviews on scutwork, I can't seem to find much info on it. Thanks
 
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Providence Portland. Check your Sanford guide, the #1 editor is the head of ID at PPMC, and also wrote the guide that many residents carry with them.

I will second Virginia Mason in Seattle as well. Scripps Mercy.

Also, Cedars-Sinai is losing the West LA VA to UCLA, not sure if that will affect your decision or not.

is it true that cedars is losing the VA?
 
Exempla St. Joseph in Denver (now National Jewish and St. Joseph) is actually a great program. You have as much autonomy as you want, procedures are yours if you want them (or someone else's if you don't want them). The faculty is more responsive to changes on the details to the program than others I have seen. While sometimes you may feel you aren't treated well, my significant other has to rotate through other programs in the area where there is no way you can leave early any day, 24/7 coffee and food is not available (for free!), and people take themselves way to seriously. I hang out with other residents outside of work multiple times a week.
It's a program where I now feel comfortable taking care of most issues on my own without much supervision. It's not a cushy transition year, but it's definitely way more chill and collegial than most any other prelim or university programs.
 
Prov Portland is ok, with some strengths, but Legacy: Good Samaritan/Emmanuel is the better community program in Portland... I have seen both.
 
Interviewed at a bunch of community programs this year.

In California, Cedars is obviously the strongest, stronger than the "formally affiliated" UCLA-Olive View in my opinion. Other than that, CPMC and SCVMC are great programs. CPMC has more of a private hospital feel, while SCVMC is county. Objectively, I think the two places are quite comparable overall. SCVMC has a better match list, but there are issues with the program (unstable leadership, scut work, questionable teaching quality). CPMC has fantastic teaching and the location in the middle of SF can't hurt. Honestly, if it weren't for the fact that UCSF is so well established in San Francisco, CPMC could be a "lower-tier" academic program in its own right as I felt it was stronger than some lower Philly programs.

I felt Kaisers (went to every one except Kaiser SC and Fontana) were a step down from those above. Kaiser Oakland comes the closest but is still too small in my own opinion. They have great access to research though and the program director is amazing. I also went to Scripps Mercy, and I was the least impressed with this program. Great location, but the hospital is antiquated (similarly their medical record keeping system) - teaching was so-so from the rounds that I saw, and the residents didn't seem to have much work at all. Fellowship match was mediocre. The major plus is simply the fact they are located in sunny and gorgeous San Diego.

I also interviewed at Houston Methodist and Mount Auburn this year - Methodist is fantastic and I think in 5-10 years they could be like CPMC/SCVMC and attract 100% US MD/DOs. Very strong cards match for a community program. Mount Auburn has an affiliation with Harvard, but I felt the hospital was tiny (certainly smallest at all the community programs I went to) and that pushed it a few notches down in my mind. However, most of the residents do research at one of the Harvard hospitals (usually BIDMC) and (as a result?) they have a strong fellowship match for a community program.

I ended up not ranking Kaiser Santa Clara, Scripps Mercy, and (almost) Mount Auburn, for reference.
 
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Prov Portland is ok, with some strengths, but Legacy: Good Samaritan/Emmanuel is the better community program in Portland... I have seen both.
I have worked with both these groups of residents (as well as Providing St Vs and OHSU) and would tend to agree, in broad strokes. I work pretty closely with the Legacy residents and feel that they're pretty evenly split into a group that's just biding time and keeping their heads down until graduation and a group that could have easily matched into a strong university program but chose nor to for career planning and lifestyle reasons.
 
Interviewed at a bunch of community programs this year.

In California, Cedars is obviously the strongest, stronger than the "formally affiliated" UCLA-Olive View in my opinion. Other than that, CPMC and SCVMC are great programs. CPMC has more of a private hospital feel, while SCVMC is county. Objectively, I think the two places are quite comparable overall. SCVMC has a better match list, but there are issues with the program (unstable leadership, scut work, questionable teaching quality). CPMC has fantastic teaching and the location in the middle of SF can't hurt. Honestly, if it weren't for the fact that UCSF is so well established in San Francisco, CPMC could be a "lower-tier" academic program in its own right as I felt it was stronger than some lower Philly programs.

I felt Kaisers (went to every one except Kaiser SC and Fontana) were a step down from those above. Kaiser Oakland comes the closest but is still too small in my own opinion. They have great access to research though and the program director is amazing. I also went to Scripps Mercy, and I was the least impressed with this program. Great location, but the hospital is antiquated (similarly their medical record keeping system) - teaching was so-so from the rounds that I saw, and the residents didn't seem to have much work at all. Fellowship match was mediocre. The major plus is simply the fact they are located in sunny and gorgeous San Diego.

I also interviewed at Houston Methodist and Mount Auburn this year - Methodist is fantastic and I think in 5-10 years they could be like CPMC/SCVMC and attract 100% US MD/DOs. Very strong cards match for a community program. Mount Auburn has an affiliation with Harvard, but I felt the hospital was tiny (certainly smallest at all the community programs I went to) and that pushed it a few notches down in my mind. However, most of the residents do research at one of the Harvard hospitals (usually BIDMC) and (as a result?) they have a strong fellowship match for a community program.

I ended up not ranking Kaiser Santa Clara, Scripps Mercy, and (almost) Mount Auburn, for reference.

No mention of Scripps Green in La Jolla? (Not the same as Scripps Mercy). It was briefly mentioned above, but here's a bit more information:

Small program (12 residents a year)
Tertiary referral center, liver transplant center, bone marrow transplant center, fecal transplant center, and there is also now research going on regarding stem cell transplants for the treatment of heart failure. Dr. Schatz is also at Scripps Green, who is best known as the co-inventor of the first coronary artery stent.

Fellowships:
Interventional cards
Cardiology
Gastroenterology
Hem/Onc
Rheumatology
Endocrinology

Scripps Green Fellowship Match List:

http://www.scripps.org/sparkle-assets/documents/alumni_information_2014.pdf
The most recent year (2014-2015) had 3 match into cards, 4 match into hem/onc, and 1 into GI

Also, The Scripps Research Institute (TSRI) is attached to the hospital. Home of Eric Topol, editor and chief of medscape and voted the most influential people in healthcare in 2012, as well as 4 nobel laureates. It's extremely easy to get involved with clinical research here, and while I don't have experience with it, pretty easy to get involved in bench research as well from what I hear.

Downsides - small hospital, but we are expanding over to Scripps Memorial Hospital down the road, which is bigger than SGH. You will be seeing a primarily insured population but we rotate at Balboa Naval hospital which offers a different kind of training experience. Depending on the attending there may be more oversight than you may expect compared to a county hospital. But hey, you're in La Jolla.

Scripps Green is often mistaken as "just a community hospital," but similar to CPMC, it's a small hospital with the feel and the resources of a large academic institution. We just don't have a medical school attached to us.

Feel free to message with questions
 
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Would anyone have any experiences at some community based IM programs (smaller in size)? Looking for a list of some that have a good teaching environment and provides solid clinical training leaving open the option to pursue a fellowship.

Also would help if could mention how competitive the program is.

I am trying to give advice to a US med student who failed Gross Anatomy, performs very well in clinics, but below average step I 190's and step II early 200's. I think this student just doesn't test well because on rotations the student is knowledgeable and does a great job. The clinical rotations that the student did not honor were all ones where grade depended on shelf exam (most of the core rotations which were HP).

Internal medicine has become more competitive in the last couple of years. Some of the "best" community based IM program also uses step 1 and step 2 cut-off before extending interviews. I think your best bet is to tell the student to do sub-internship for the first half of the year at programs that he/she is interested in. Sub-I's can be either in general medicine or sub-specialty service (ward is preferred). Try to work with attending that are in the admission committee.

This is a general cut-off (without doing sub-i's or attending top 15 programs) that I've heard from some of the community programs i interviewed (although i decided to rank academic over community). Please take this with a grain of salt (see below).

Personally, JH Bayview > Cedars Sinai > CPMC ~ Harbor UCLA ~ Olive View UCLA > Kaiser Sunset ~ Scrips~ Kaiser Oakland based on fellowhip.

California:
- Harbor UCLA and UCLA Olive View: Step 1 > 220
- Cedars Sinai: Step 1 > 220
- Scripps Green: Step 1 > 210
- California Pacific Medical Center: Step 1> 200
- Kaiser Sunset: Step 1 > 200
- Kaiser Oakland: Step 1 > 200

Maryland:
- Johns Hopkins Bayview: Step 1 > 210 (weight extra-curricular activities pretty heavily)

I hope this helps.
 
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Internal medicine has become more competitive in the last couple of years. Some of the "best" community based IM program also uses step 1 and step 2 cut-off before extending interviews. I think your best bet is to tell the student to do sub-internship for the first half of the year at programs that he/she is interested in. Sub-I's can be either in general medicine or sub-specialty service (ward is preferred). Try to work with attending that are in the admission committee.

This is a general cut-off (without doing sub-i's or attending top 15 programs) that I've heard from some of the community programs i interviewed (although i decided to rank academic over community). Please take this with a grain of salt (see below).

Personally, JH Bayview > Cedars Sinai > CPMC ~ Harbor UCLA ~ Olive View UCLA > Kaiser Sunset ~ Scrips~ Kaiser Oakland based on fellowhip.

California:
- Harbor UCLA and UCLA Olive View: Step 1 > 220
- Cedars Sinai: Step 1 > 220
- Scripps Green: Step 1 > 210
- California Pacific Medical Center: Step 1> 200
- Kaiser Sunset: Step 1 > 200
- Kaiser Oakland: Step 1 > 200

Maryland:
- Johns Hopkins Bayview: Step 1 > 210 (weight extra-curricular activities pretty heavily)

I hope this helps.
I would take this ranking with very few grains of salt...I would consider tossing out the salt shaker all together.

Obviously, these ranking systems are biased but if you're going to rank programs based on fellowship at least look at the fellowship match lists. I would say Scripps Green is more comparable to UCLA olive view and CPMC in terms of fellowship match but Harbor residents probably fair better.
 
Also I wouldn't worry too much about Step cutoffs. Sure, there is a cutoff, but I wouldn't have gotten the interviews I did if everyone just followed their cutoffs ;) The only shots you miss 100% are the shots that you don't take.
 
I think scripps green deserves another mention. Really strong program in a great location with plenty of opportunities for research and great teaching.
 
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