Living as a resident w/ family in NYC (or other expensive city)

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Amygdala23

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If there are any residents with a family living in Manhattan or any other very expensive area/city, how do you guys make the ends meet on a resident salary?

For example if both spouses are residents, it seems to me that they would barely get by. After paying the rent and child care, not much is left, right? How do you make it work?

I'm curious to know if your hospital offers rent subsidized housing, how much is it?

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If there are any residents with a family living in Manhattan or any other very expensive area/city, how do you guys make the ends meet on a resident salary?

For example if both spouses are residents, it seems to me that they would barely get by. After paying the rent and child care, not much is left, right? How do you make it work?

I'm curious to know if your hospital offers rent subsidized housing, how much is it?
Many of the nyc residencies do offer subsidized housing or a housing stipend. Generally the nyc residencies also pay higher in The neighborhood 60k so 2 residents would have over 100k/yr. some will live outside Manhattan where it can be a Little cheaper and the commute not terrible...

The other options of course not to put nyc programs on your ROL and do residency in a place with a lower COL.
 
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If there are any residents with a family living in Manhattan or any other very expensive area/city, how do you guys make the ends meet on a resident salary?

For example if both spouses are residents, it seems to me that they would barely get by. After paying the rent and child care, not much is left, right? How do you make it work?

I'm curious to know if your hospital offers rent subsidized housing, how much is it?


This question comes up far too frequently. Just like in the real world, you approach residency the same way: take into account income and cost of living, and figure out if it works for you. Nobody has to live in New York. Many of the best residencies are in other locations. If it’s not financially feasible, then don’t apply to NYC programs.
 
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Of course, I completely agree with you guys that nobody has to live in NYC, and that if it is not feasible than simply don't apply to or rank those programs.

But my question was for residents who do make it work in Manhattan programs, and have families with them, how do they do it..where do they live if they live outside of Manhattan etc. (Some programs want you to live withinh 30 min of hospital for example)..

I interviewed at only one NYC program and they advertised subsidized housing, but according to residents it is not that affordable at all..
 
Of course, I completely agree with you guys that nobody has to live in NYC, and that if it is not feasible than simply don't apply to or rank those programs.

But my question was for residents who do make it work in Manhattan programs, and have families with them, how do they do it..where do they live if they live outside of Manhattan etc. (Some programs want you to live withinh 30 min of hospital for example)..

I interviewed at only one NYC program and they advertised subsidized housing, but according to residents it is not that affordable at all..
Housing is much more affordable in Queens than in Manhattan. Depending on which hospital you're talking about, if you find a place around Long Island City or Astoria, you'd probably have a 30, maybe 40 minute commute. Of course, "affordable" is a relative term. For a two or three bedroom apartment in Queens, you're still probably going to pay $3,000 a month; in Manhattan, it will be much more.
 
I guess it's program dependent. The only program I'm ranking in NY offers subsidized housing (2 bedroom for around $1500) plus one of the highest starting salaries around mid 60s. That's 10k more than any of the programs in the "cheaper" cities. Also looks like a 6k increase in salary every year which is a massive increase compared to programs in the "cheaper cities". By PGY3 you're making almost high 70s which is now almost 20k higher than the "cheaper" cities. All in all it looks like lifestyle would almost be the same as long as you're not eating out every night at expensive NY restaurants.
 
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The reality is that there are plenty of wealthy people in medicine. This heavily subsidizes their lifestyle during residency in high COL areas. Residency has not prevented people from purchasing multi-million dollar homes and living in these residences with their family. Life is very different for someone actually trying to live off a resident salary, which is not do-able in these locations.
 
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I did residency in NYC. I was single, and it was still a struggle. I barely got by. I did live in subsidized housing in Manhattan. Several co-residents had families, but most of them had a significant other with a non-resident job.

I did make more money than typical. I got less as a fellow than as a resident.

Was it worth it? 1000000% yes. You can't beat living in NYC (although it isn't for everybody to be sure).
 
I guess it's program dependent. The only program I'm ranking in NY offers subsidized housing (2 bedroom for around $1500) plus one of the highest starting salaries around mid 60s. That's 10k more than any of the programs in the "cheaper" cities. Also looks like a 6k increase in salary every year which is a massive increase compared to programs in the "cheaper cities". By PGY3 you're making almost high 70s which is now almost 20k higher than the "cheaper" cities. All in all it looks like lifestyle would almost be the same as long as you're not eating out every night at expensive NY restaurants.
Not so sure about this.

NY has a state income tax which many states don't.

The COL makes a big difference as well. In my residency in SC I paid $1000/month for a 3 bed house on an acre of land. That extra $500/month you'll be paying is $6000/year post-tax money. That'll eat up most of that 10k gross extra you're paid.
 
Not so sure about this.

NY has a state income tax which many states don't.

The COL makes a big difference as well. In my residency in SC I paid $1000/month for a 3 bed house on an acre of land. That extra $500/month you'll be paying is $6000/year post-tax money. That'll eat up most of that 10k gross extra you're paid.

To each his own but most residents don’t need a 3 bedroom house and an acre of land even if it’s $1000/mo. $1500 in NYC is a steal for a 2 bedroom. I believe $900 for a 1bed. I ran the numbers using tax calculators as a single or married couple. It ends up being similar with the main difference being living in a “better” city which is all relative. Also you’re paid roughly $20k more by PGY3 over most other programs not 6k.
 
I'm assuming not every resident has the luxury of not applying to some NYC programs or not ranking them

in which case, that is advice isn't useful, and the question is still a good one

I guess people who aren't in those shoes can count themselves lucky
 
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If you can’t afford to live somewhere it isn’t an option. It’s just a cold reality regardless of the impact on your match goals
 
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To each his own but most residents don’t need a 3 bedroom house and an acre of land even if it’s $1000/mo. $1500 in NYC is a steal for a 2 bedroom. I believe $900 for a 1bed. I ran the numbers using tax calculators as a single or married couple. It ends up being similar with the main difference being living in a “better” city which is all relative. Also you’re paid roughly $20k more by PGY3 over most other programs not 6k.
Right so the implicit point is you can live much cheaper elsewhere. A 1 bedroom apartment is around 600/month lots of other places.

Interestingly I also ran the numbers between NYC single earning 65k and my state single earning 55k - post tax difference was 2k. Housing difference alone is more than that.
 
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It's definitely doable for a one resident family if the other parent either stays home with the kids or earns enough to help pay for childcare. This is especially true if the student loan situation isn't bad. We are in NYC and pay around $2500 for a 2 bedroom in manhattan near the hospital (doorman/elevator/decent neighborhood/good zoned school) subsidized by the medical center and have several kids. My partner stayed home intern year but now works and earns substantially more than I do. We did fine financially on just my resident salary for over a year in NYC but have no debt. NYC has some perks for families. Starting in the year that kids will turn 4, NYC has universal Pre-K and good public school options (zone dependent obviously) so they can start public school 2 years earlier than where we were previously (that's 2 YEARS of day care costs per child saved). It's definitely pricier than the midwest but our COL isn't higher than it was before in the suburbs of New England. Lots of free activities for kids in the city year round as well.

Summary:
Doable to be in NYC with kids if: 1 resident family with little educational debt and subsidized housing available
Avoid NYC: 2 resident family with a ton of student debt
 
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get ready for city tax on top of state and federal.. :rolleyes:
 
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Many people make valid points. But the poor OP is literally just asking for the specific experiences of people who have actually done it, not everyone’s opinions about better options. Maybe just let a few more people answer the actual question, not just opining about not going to NYC.
 
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I have a few former classmates who matched NYC (or surrounding areas like Brooklyn, Queens, Yonkers) and they are all making it work, but I don’t know any of them well enough to ask for financial details on how they do it.
 
To each his own but most residents don’t need a 3 bedroom house and an acre of land even if it’s $1000/mo. $1500 in NYC is a steal for a 2 bedroom. I believe $900 for a 1bed. I ran the numbers using tax calculators as a single or married couple. It ends up being similar with the main difference being living in a “better” city which is all relative. Also you’re paid roughly $20k more by PGY3 over most other programs not 6k.
Good luck finding a 2bdrm in nyc for 1500/month ...well at least in a relatively safe neighborhood. I remember looking at apt in Manhattan in 2007 and the best I found was a s450sq ft studio in the LES for 1550...I would image that 12 years later it’s closer to 2 grand.
 
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I did residency in NYC. I was single, and it was still a struggle. I barely got by. I did live in subsidized housing in Manhattan. Several co-residents had families, but most of them had a significant other with a non-resident job.

I did make more money than typical. I got less as a fellow than as a resident.

Was it worth it? 1000000% yes. You can't beat living in NYC (although it isn't for everybody to be sure).

Hey can you elaborate on living in NYC as a resident?
Obviously this is personality dependent but since you sound much more than satisfied Id love to hear your opinion.
What was particularly worth it, any challenges etc
 
Hey can you elaborate on living in NYC as a resident?
Obviously this is personality dependent but since you sound much more than satisfied Id love to hear your opinion.
What was particularly worth it, any challenges etc

Not everyone takes to city life. I LOVED it. It's about this air of the city how there is always something going on. I just loved the concept of living in NYC. Anywhere I traveled to, if you were in a taxi or talking to ppl or whatever, you just say "I'm from NYC"...instant convo. I get a decent number of pts who grew up in NYC and moved...I make an instant connection with them.

People in NYC can be jerks, but there is this unsaid bond that all New Yorkers have...it's a thing you can't describe until you experience it.

The actual doing: I lived in sorta an L shaped studio apartment with a fairly nice kitchen and bathroom. It was probably about 200 or 300 square feet maybe? I lived around 59th and 10th. The housing was subsidized and was $1700/month. Taxes are rough. When I lived in NYC it was the first time in my life that I actually had to PAY IN to taxes in April instead of getting a return. It's brutal.

If you have a family, you would likely want to send your kids to something other than public city schools. This can run 20 to 40k a year iirc. Daycare and other costs are crazy too. Food is not THAT much more expensive if you grocery it. I still go to the grocery store and buy 2 to 3 days worth of food at a time despite having the means to do the whole 'fill a cart and store it and eat it throughout the week/month' thing. That's something to get used to. I got used to it, and a I said, hold on to it.

Travel can be interesting. First of all there are three airports that are very easy to reach. However, as a resident, you won't have a car (Manhattan is much more drivable than ppl give it credit for though). Penn station is what I mostly used. You lose convenience for sure. Penn station the day before thanksgiving is the epitome of hell on earth haha. Every time I traveled, I would remember getting into Penn station, getting on the subway, then the minute you get off the subway and take the escalator up to the city street...I would just get this invigorated feeling and remember how much I loved it there.

You'll see and experience things you just can't get anywhere else. I was on call over Thanksgiving my first year of residency. I left my apartment, walked three blocks, and there I was watching the Macy's Thanksgiving day parade.

To be honest, if you are making money, you can make it work. You may have to live leaner than you are used to and really do a written out budget and stick to it. Howevever, as someone else pointed out, 2 residents with kids and a lot of debt would be a tough one.

Out of all the things I've done in my life, that is at the very top or close to the very top of experiences I would never trade in/change. I luckily only live a few hours from the city now. Every time I go back I walk around and just feel happy. I can't explain it...again, you have to experience it. And again...not for everybody. I'm getting way nostalgic just typing this out. Anyway, if you are a city person and don't have too many expenses you can make it work and in the end, the experience is something money just can't buy.
 
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Not everyone takes to city life. I LOVED it. It's about this air of the city how there is always something going on. I just loved the concept of living in NYC. Anywhere I traveled to, if you were in a taxi or talking to ppl or whatever, you just say "I'm from NYC"...instant convo. I get a decent number of pts who grew up in NYC and moved...I make an instant connection with them.

People in NYC can be jerks, but there is this unsaid bond that all New Yorkers have...it's a thing you can't describe until you experience it.

The actual doing: I lived in sorta an L shaped studio apartment with a fairly nice kitchen and bathroom. It was probably about 200 or 300 square feet maybe? I lived around 59th and 10th. The housing was subsidized and was $1700/month. Taxes are rough. When I lived in NYC it was the first time in my life that I actually had to PAY IN to taxes in April instead of getting a return. It's brutal.

If you have a family, you would likely want to send your kids to something other than public city schools. This can run 20 to 40k a year iirc. Daycare and other costs are crazy too. Food is not THAT much more expensive if you grocery it. I still go to the grocery store and buy 2 to 3 days worth of food at a time despite having the means to do the whole 'fill a cart and store it and eat it throughout the week/month' thing. That's something to get used to. I got used to it, and a I said, hold on to it.

Travel can be interesting. First of all there are three airports that are very easy to reach. However, as a resident, you won't have a car (Manhattan is much more drivable than ppl give it credit for though). Penn station is what I mostly used. You lose convenience for sure. Penn station the day before thanksgiving is the epitome of hell on earth haha. Every time I traveled, I would remember getting into Penn station, getting on the subway, then the minute you get off the subway and take the escalator up to the city street...I would just get this invigorated feeling and remember how much I loved it there.

You'll see and experience things you just can't get anywhere else. I was on call over Thanksgiving my first year of residency. I left my apartment, walked three blocks, and there I was watching the Macy's Thanksgiving day parade.

To be honest, if you are making money, you can make it work. You may have to live leaner than you are used to and really do a written out budget and stick to it. Howevever, as someone else pointed out, 2 residents with kids and a lot of debt would be a tough one.

Out of all the things I've done in my life, that is at the very top or close to the very top of experiences I would never trade in/change. I luckily only live a few hours from the city now. Every time I go back I walk around and just feel happy. I can't explain it...again, you have to experience it. And again...not for everybody. I'm getting way nostalgic just typing this out. Anyway, if you are a city person and don't have too many expenses you can make it work and in the end, the experience is something money just can't buy.


This is such a thorough answer.
Thank you very much!
Really appreciate view!!
 
Thank you to everyone for chiming in. I love hearing different perspectives and different options!

I didn't know about the possibility for kids to start public (aka free) school at the age of three. I just looked it up, it's called 3-K and it seems like a good option. Thanks @Ironspy

Subsidized housing this particular hospital offers is almost $3k for 1bedroom. (Little less if you don't have doorman, elevator and laundry in the building.)

As @Crayola227 pointed out, not everyone has the luxury of not applying to NYC programs, especially me being an international graduate.
 
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You can live in Manhattan on a resident salary. Many people do. The median income is around resident salary. It's impossible to afford private school for 2 kids (given that it's 40k a year for one kid). However, they often have financial aid, and it doesn't hurt to apply.

Other than that, generally residents either have access to cheap housing through the facility they train or they live in a cheap neighborhood. However, you should not expect to have 2000 sq ft for a family if you live in NYC. Otherwise I don't see a training experience in NYC to be very different from elsewhere, except that you don't need to drive. You send your kids to public school and eat grocery food, it's fine and easily doable. Cheap neighborhoods are by no means unsafe. There's virtually no more unsafe neighborhood in NYC. Even most public schools are fine at this point IMO.

The true issue is a demand for "upper middle class lifestyle" in Manhattan. Housing in prime neighborhoods (read: mostly wealthy people live in them) are easily $1000-$1500 a sq ft and goes up from there, and multiple by 3% you get the yearly rent. Everything else you want as an upper middle class person (i.e. gluten free bread, yoga class, private day care etc.) goes up from there. However, this is cheaper in the suburbs and if this is what you want and you live on resident salary you could look at NYC suburbs instead.

If you look at the NY metropolitan area in general in total cost of living vs commute distance, I think it's cheaper by quite a bit compared to many areas of California (as an example). This is frankly not something I would consider when ranking programs. Given the number of programs in the NYC area and most of them are not located in prime Manhattan, this is definitely not a concern if you need to apply to a lot of programs.
 
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Its very doable. We lived in a decent 2 BR, 5 minutes from central park for $2800. The rooms were very small but it was worth it. You can even live in a 1 BR place with a decent size living room. And you can easily find something cheaper if you live 30 minutes outside manhattan in either direction.

And in fact, living in new york is not that expensive if you are smart about it.
-Obviously you can't afford to keep a car in manhattan- you could even sell it and use that money and also save on gas money.
-You can eat at all the amazing places that are actually very cheap considering the variety and quality; including the amazing street food at every corner, which is better than many restaurants.
-There is so much free stuff to do- We hardly spent money for "activities" or date night.
- In the last year, I got a residency stipend and sign on bonus from a position I picked up and then it was no problem. Some of my colleagues did moonlighting,( with so many hospitals its quite easy to find). We were offered 3000$ for one weekend of home call (Neuro-Stroke)
- I almost wish I were still living there. Some of the best times of my life.

Good luck.
 
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How did you find this amazing price? Was it provided by the residency program?

No we used a real estate agent. Theres a bunch of apps nowadays that help you find places there. The agents are expensive though. We had to pay them 3000$.
 
Thank you to everyone for chiming in. I love hearing different perspectives and different options!

I didn't know about the possibility for kids to start public (aka free) school at the age of three. I just looked it up, it's called 3-K and it seems like a good option. Thanks @Ironspy

Subsidized housing this particular hospital offers is almost $3k for 1bedroom. (Little less if you don't have doorman, elevator and laundry in the building.)

As @Crayola227 pointed out, not everyone has the luxury of not applying to NYC programs, especially me being an international graduate.

I guess it depends on the location, but $3000 doesn’t seem like a good deal for subsidized housing.

3 years ago I lived in Brooklyn in a true 1-bedroom for $1300. It was definitely a steal and I jumped on it when I found it, but other places I was looking were around $1500-1700.

I’m moving back in the summer for fellowship and I’ve been looking at places in Manhattan (mostly in Harlem) and I’ve found a lot for $1800-2200.

My cousin lives in Harlem and pays $3000 for a 2-bedroom.

There are definitely options if you’re patient. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still expensive for the space (I’ll be paying the same in rent that i’m paying in my mortgage payments!), but you can find something that is a little more budget friendly.
 
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