Loans/Scholarship/Tuition Reimbursement Questions Thread

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PumpkinSmasher said:
3 yrs = 6,157/month
4 yrs = 4,770/month
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6 x 12 = 72k/year. That's pretty much your entire salary as a pharmacist going to paying your debts. Since if you bring down 100K/year, you're paying about 30K in taxes.

Thanks for the figures, but 6K/month is going to be tough unless you're pulling down 120K/year and living on ~1K a month.
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unevache said:
True. I'm just peeved that residencies pay less than half the salary of an actual pharmacist. That means if I want to pursue anything relating to clinical pharmacy I'll have to pretty much wait an extra two years to pay off the astronomical loans I will have accrued during pharmacy school.
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Yep. Interest will not build with the IBR plan though. You make the IBR payment which for most residency programs would be around $360/month if the residency stipend was $45k/yr. Even if this payment does not cover the interest the government will pay the remainder of the compounded interest for the first 3 years you use the IBR method.

Then when you are done with residency you can continue on IBR if it makes since for your loan amount and salary or can change to the standard repayment method.

If I am able to secure a residency I plan on using IBR.



http://www.ibrinfo.org/calculator.php
 
PonderingChoice said:
6 x 12 = 72k/year. That's pretty much your entire salary as a pharmacist going to paying your debts. Since if you bring down 100K/year, you're paying about 30K in taxes.

Thanks for the figures, but 6K/month is going to be tough unless you're pulling down 120K/year and living on ~1K a month.
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Exactly. You have to realistic when you think about your future repayment scheme.

This is a nice website to estimate your net salary for each state:

http://www.paycheckcity.com/netpaycalc/netpaycalculator.asp
-just choose your state, annual salary, filing status and see what happens.

This calculator will tell you your monthly payment for whatever your debt may be for various loan lengths:
http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml
-If you are making electronic payments on stafford, perkins, and plus loans you subtract 0.25% off your interest rate.

This is a nice excel budget sheet:

http://www.vertex42.com/ExcelTemplates/personal-budget-spreadsheet.html

-You can allott your monthly expenses for almost anything you can think of along with your salary and see where you can make some changes.
 
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PumpkinSmasher said:
12 years.

3 yrs = 6,157/month
4 yrs = 4,770/month
The internet/google are magical tools, student loan rates, payment calculators, financial tools, etc are all a mouse click away for people with the cognitive drive to seek them out. Whether it is drug info or not, pharmacists and future pharmacists need to be skilled at information retrieval. Be curious and try to find answers for yourself before asking for help. Your faculty, preceptors, employers, and peers will appreciate your efforts and be more inclined to assist you.

You can always look into IBR if you are interested in working for non-profit or federal/state facility after graduation. e.g. If you had 200k in loans and made 120k as a pharmacist working for the Veterans Affairs or State hospital then your IBR payment would be 1300/month and as long as you you continued to work for that facility for 10 years at the end of that 10 years the remainder of your loans would be forgiven. So essentially you would have paid roughly 156,000 and the remaining loan balance would be forgiven but it would show as taxable income on the tax return for the 10th year, so something to keep in mind the last year.

You would have to keep employment with a non-profit facility or government for 120 payments/10years though.

From my experience health profession students have no understanding of finances so you may want to talk to an accountant or at least your financial aid dept to help you or explain this program. This program pays off best for people with heavy debt who and they want to work for the government or nonprofit. Many hospitals are non-profit you just need to look on their websites.

One thing to note is this payment plan is income based so as your salary goes up so will the monthly payment requirement. You can read more about it on financial aid website or http://www.ibrinfo.org/ .

Classes are important but it is important to have a plan/understanding of how you will pay for these classes once you finish!
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Thanks - I'm going to look into this. I was hoping to do the Navy program, but the recruiter told me they won't accept Creighton's distance program. (My only option as a military spouse.) He said it had to be a "brick and morter" school.
 
JJVmom said:
Thanks - I'm going to look into this. I was hoping to do the Navy program, but the recruiter told me they won't accept Creighton's distance program. (My only option as a military spouse.) He said it had to be a "brick and morter" school.
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Interesting. If it were me, I would double check with another recruiter to make sure if you have not done so already. Maybe, ask to speak with the head health professions recruiter.
 
UMAX3000 said:
I'm deciding between Univ of Pacific (~$220k/3yrs) and Univ of Illinois-Chicago (~$250k/4yrs). These figures deal with the cost of attendance. However, I'm worried about taking on so many loans. I know UIC ranked better than UoP, but I could save ~$30k by going to UoP. Do you think 30k worth the drop in prestige? Is anyone else facing this type of debt?
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I'll also be facing a similar amount of debt - actually higher (>250k) after factoring in the additional MPH degree that I also intend to complete concurrently. Well, that being said, I am out-of-state after all.

I admit that I am still very ignorant of the amount of debt that I will be accumulating for this coming 4 years, having had my undergrad tuition paid for completely by my hardworking parents - God bless them - while only earning my own living expenses by working part time. I definitely need to get some financial planning skills ASAP before launching myself into pharmacy school this Fall :scared: Thanks PumpkinSmasher for the resources provided. Definitely helps in getting me started!
 
treeshadow said:
I'll also be facing a similar amount of debt - actually higher (>250k) after factoring in the additional MPH degree that I also intend to complete concurrently. Well, that being said, I am out-of-state after all.

I admit that I am still very ignorant of the amount of debt that I will be accumulating for this coming 4 years, having had my undergrad tuition paid for completely by my hardworking parents - God bless them - while only earning my own living expenses by working part time. I definitely need to get some financial planning skills ASAP before launching myself into pharmacy school this Fall :scared: Thanks PumpkinSmasher for the resources provided. Definitely helps in getting me started!
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I am not trying to be doom and gloom about financials but I do want to see my peers succeed and not have to stress about debt. The more you know, the better prepared you will be to handle repaying the debt or finding a position that will help you repay the debt when you graduate.

Live within your means while you are a student, apply for scholarships! If you have the chance to win a a few hundred to a few thousand dollars for writing a few essays then go for it. Essay topics are usually very similar from scholarship to scholarship so once you have a few done, you can keep improving existing essays and reusing them, have faculty read the essays over. Make sure to make good with a couple faculty early on, this will help you down the road for recommendations, lab work, internships, etc. plus they are good mentors most of the time. You are paying to go, so might as get the best/broad experience you can.

Intern during school if you can too. It will help your finances, it is good experience, and networking.
 
How is it so high? I read that UCSF was 39K a year, and that amounts to 160k for the four years. Did you include the first two years as well?
 
Benelli said:
How is it so high? I read that UCSF was 39K a year, and that amounts to 160k for the four years. Did you include the first two years as well?
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lost sheep...:scared:



UCSF may very well be 160k flat for 4 years of school for out of staters but guess what...you still need food to put in your face hole and need a roof over your head and toilet to excrete the food you put in your face hole. Other random expenses have been known to occur over a 4 year stent of time.

And that little statement next to your loan summary that says "xxx" amount is unsubsidized means that the money is going to collect interest while you are filling your brain with knowledge in school.
 
I'll probably be close to that also mainly because of room and board, living expenses, partial tuition (luckily got some merit awards), and my undergrad loans. A lot of people I know in/graduated from Pharm leave with $150,000-$300,000 in loans/debt (which ever way you chose to look at it :p). I know two Pharmacists in particular ...one owed $300,000 and has been working for about 3 years now, he is paid off if not close to it, and the other person had $215,000 paid in a year and half (that was working two jobs some how). It's definitely doable, and with the amount of debt you'll be facing your almost forced to do whatever it takes to get it paid off. So yea you won't be living lavishly at first, and a second income will help, but you can do it. No worries. It's scary yeah, but more people than you think are in the same boat, and none of their boats have sunk that I know of.:laugh:
 
IRxOCPharm said:
I'll probably be close to that also mainly because of room and board, living expenses, partial tuition (luckily got some merit awards), and my undergrad loans. A lot of people I know in/graduated from Pharm leave with $150,000-$300,000 in loans/debt (which ever way you chose to look at it :p). I know two Pharmacists in particular ...one owed $300,000 and has been working for about 3 years now, he is paid off if not close to it, and the other person had $215,000 paid in a year and half (that was working two jobs some how). It's definitely doable, and with the amount of debt you'll be facing your almost forced to do whatever it takes to get it paid off. So yea you won't be living lavishly at first, and a second income will help, but you can do it. No worries. It's scary yeah, but more people than you think are in the same boat, and none of their boats have sunk that I know of.:laugh:
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Wow. I admittedly have thought about doing something similar, living at home or somewhere extremely cheap to pay back my loans ASAP. I also haven't spent too much time thinking about it though but I wonder if that was the best idea for both of them.

Recently I was reading that for loans under a certain interest rate it is wiser to mix in paying off loans with saving since the return on those savings will be higher than the interest rate. Anyone who can shed some more light on this topic?
 
IRxOCPharm said:
I'll probably be close to that also mainly because of room and board, living expenses, partial tuition (luckily got some merit awards), and my undergrad loans. A lot of people I know in/graduated from Pharm leave with $150,000-$300,000 in loans/debt (which ever way you chose to look at it :p). I know two Pharmacists in particular ...one owed $300,000 and has been working for about 3 years now, he is paid off if not close to it, and the other person had $215,000 paid in a year and half (that was working two jobs some how). It's definitely doable, and with the amount of debt you'll be facing your almost forced to do whatever it takes to get it paid off. So yea you won't be living lavishly at first, and a second income will help, but you can do it. No worries. It's scary yeah, but more people than you think are in the same boat, and none of their boats have sunk that I know of.:laugh:
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Whaaa?? I'd like to know how this is possible.
 
homeslice said:
Whaaa?? I'd like to know how this is possible.
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Well the 300K guy is a non-blood related relative. His wife has a 110k salary, and he was promoted from one of the Pharmacists to the manager of the store in that department, so within 6 months of starting he was making 20k more than when he started. Kind of lucky, but he also works at the busiest store in the area and hates it. So between both their salaries their doing quite well. The other person I do not know personally, but a friend of mine who is a Pharm tech mentioned the story to me. Basically he worked retail pharmacy and a hospital job.
 
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IRxOCPharm said:
Yea pretty much.
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If their situation is that you say it is -that their combined income is ~$250m or so- then it's rather doable. They'd still have $6m (give or take, obviously) a month after taxes and the student loan payments.
 
UMAX3000 said:
I'm deciding between Univ of Pacific (~$220k/3yrs) and Univ of Illinois-Chicago (~$250k/4yrs). These figures deal with the cost of attendance. However, I'm worried about taking on so many loans. I know UIC ranked better than UoP, but I could save ~$30k by going to UoP. Do you think 30k worth the drop in prestige? Is anyone else facing this type of debt?
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I am attending Sullivan University COP Class of 2013. It is a 3-year program and our estimated cost is $41,600 per year (tuition, books, fees, etc). So after three years I am looking at $125K in principal amount only. Just my opinion, but I'd look at a different school.
 
lost sheep...:scared:



UCSF may very well be 160k flat for 4 years of school for out of staters but guess what...you still need food to put in your face hole and need a roof over your head and toilet to excrete the food you put in your face hole. Other random expenses have been known to occur over a 4 year stent of time.

And that little statement next to your loan summary that says "xxx" amount is unsubsidized means that the money is going to collect interest while you are filling your brain with knowledge in school.
Click to expand...

Right, well I thought they meant flat tuition. I am pretty well learned in the concepts of cost analysis, and although you seemed to think otherwise, I didn't need a refresher course. However, thanks for the concern. :)
 
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wes011 said:
I am attending Sullivan University COP Class of 2013. It is a 3-year program and our estimated cost is $41,600 per year (tuition, books, fees, etc). So after three years I am looking at $125K in principal amount only. Just my opinion, but I'd look at a different school.
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your math is a bit off. It will be a little over $150,000.
 
rhythmspirit said:
your math is a bit off. It will be a little over $150,000.
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My math is fine as I am talking about principal amounts on my loans which is exactly what I stated. Unless you live in some alternate universe that does not hold this mathematical equation to be true. $41,600 x 3 = $124,800.

And let's think about this shall we? If I am going to a three year school, in order to be a little over $150K, I have to be spending greater than $50K for school....which I am not.
 
After talking with a financial advisor, I am looking at at least 200k worth of student loan debt by the time I'm finished with pharm school. :eek: and that's not including interest!
Its always been my dream to become a pharmacist but these numbers are really freaking me out. I'm kind of having second thoughts. Pharmacist salaries are good but we do not earn as much as doctor yet we take on as much debt.

Not too rant too much buts it kind of sad in this country how you can work really hard to fulfill your dreams and become a productive member of society only to wind up being a life long debt slave to some bank.

Thoughts?
 
It's true what you said, we're working our whole life just to pay off debts. The house/car that we currently possess are "ours" as long as there are jobs. Once unemployed, everything disappears. Life is like a mirage.

Don't be discouraged with 200k+ loan. You have plenty of time to pay it off :smuggrin:
 
Did your financial advisor mention income based repayment? Yes you would be paying a minimum for something like 25 years, but the remainder of your debt is waived as long as you meet the terms. Do you have federal loans like stafford and grad plus?
 
Loans worry me too, but I'm young enough where it shouldn't be a problem. I will be able to pay them back.

JBudege said:
Not too rant too much buts it kind of sad in this country how you can work really hard to fulfill your dreams and become a productive member of society only to wind up being a life long debt slave to some bank.
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Nobody gives a **** about your dreams but you. No one's forcing you to become a pharmacist. I don't mean to be harsh, but loans are part and parcel with becoming a pharmacist. What's the alternative to having lower loans for yourself? Someone else is going to pay the difference somewhere.
 
PonderingChoice said:
Loans worry me too, but I'm young enough where it shouldn't be a problem. I will be able to pay them back.



Nobody gives a **** about your dreams but you. No one's forcing you to become a pharmacist. I don't mean to be harsh, but loans are part and parcel with becoming a pharmacist. What's the alternative to having lower loans for yourself? Someone else is going to pay the difference somewhere.
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Agreed. As a Pharmacist your automatically in a different bracket when it comes to loans. You can't compare taking out $50,000 for a 4 year degree that is going to allow you to work as a 1st grade teacher, struggling artist, anthropologist, small town police officer, etc.(nothing wrong with these professions, but it is a totally different borrowing system). What will a lot of those types of degrees earn? $35,000- $60,000 starting base salary? That's not even looking at taxes and job availability. A lot of people who study say "Education" don't even know what to do with it. Do you teach? Do you work at a day car? What exactly do you do with a broad degree like that or like business (even my friends who are business majors have no idea, all I ever hear is "you become an accountant"). Then on top of the broad job ideas, you have the fact that, yea, you can make it one day to a better paying salary, but that might take 15 years, and even then it probably won't be that of a Pharmacists salary. Sure you can get lucky, but that's just it, it's luck! Yes, you'll be taking out more, but you know exactly what you can do with the education, and you have the fall back of retail (still have to find a position of course, but at least you know what to turn to) which will earn you a decent chunk of change. It is hard to fathom $150,000 - $250,000 in loans, but you gotta look at it as incomparable to why other people typically only have to take out 50k.
 
wes011 said:
My math is fine as I am talking about principal amounts on my loans which is exactly what I stated. Unless you live in some alternate universe that does not hold this mathematical equation to be true. $41,600 x 3 = $124,800.

And let's think about this shall we? If I am going to a three year school, in order to be a little over $150K, I have to be spending greater than $50K for school....which I am not.
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Wrong. Look again. Your $41,000 is only for 3 quarters. Multiplying by 3 years, you're still missing the 4th quarter of each year. They're not going to give you the 4th quarter free. If you're thinking they will give you 4th quarter for free, you're living in an alternate universe.

Quarter 1 (Summer): 13,800
Quarter 2 (Fall): 13,800
Quarter 3 (Winter): 13,800
Total = roughly your amount of 41,600. Where's Quarter 4 (Spring)?
 
UoP isn't that bad - I mean, it's a 3 year school, so your per year might be twice as much, but your overall tuition (without other factors) won't be twice as much... right?
 
PonderingChoice said:
UoP isn't that bad - I mean, it's a 3 year school, so your per year might be twice as much, but your overall tuition (without other factors) won't be twice as much... right?
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Still talking 77+77+68 right now, but they've been increasing it by approximately 8% every year, so it's easy to foresee that going closer to 90k for the first 2 years in not too long from now. When the pharmacist I work under graduated from UoP in 2005, tuition was 46,5 for the first 2 years. 46,500 ---> 77,000 in 5 years time.

Of course, the 77/77/68 assumes you take a lot of money for living expenses (~15k per year) but still, yeah... it's pricey.

The duration of the program doesn't change the fact that it is approximately 200k for cost of attendance. I'm not complaining, however it does seem as though a lot of schools ring in for well, well under 200k for their 4 years.
 
IRxOCPharm said:
Agreed. As a Pharmacist your automatically in a different bracket when it comes to loans. You can't compare taking out $50,000 for a 4 year degree that is going to allow you to work as a 1st grade teacher, struggling artist, anthropologist, small town police officer, etc.(nothing wrong with these professions, but it is a totally different borrowing system). What will a lot of those types of degrees earn? $35,000- $60,000 starting base salary? That's not even looking at taxes and job availability. A lot of people who study say "Education" don't even know what to do with it. Do you teach? Do you work at a day car? What exactly do you do with a broad degree like that or like business (even my friends who are business majors have no idea, all I ever hear is "you become an accountant"). Then on top of the broad job ideas, you have the fact that, yea, you can make it one day to a better paying salary, but that might take 15 years, and even then it probably won't be that of a Pharmacists salary. Sure you can get lucky, but that's just it, it's luck! Yes, you'll be taking out more, but you know exactly what you can do with the education, and you have the fall back of retail (still have to find a position of course, but at least you know what to turn to) which will earn you a decent chunk of change. It is hard to fathom $150,000 - $250,000 in loans, but you gotta look at it as incomparable to why other people typically only have to take out 50k.
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You do have to consider that pharmacists have to pay a much heftier tax bill than teachers or other professions you named. Plus our loan interest is not tax deductible like those other professions since we "make too much" according to the government. And of course we spend more time in school so while we are taking out even more loans and living like paupers for additional years of schooling, our teacher cohorts are already in jobs paying $35k per year plus summers completely off. So yes, pharmacists make more money but they also pay much more in taxes, much more in loan interest (since no tax deduction), much more in opportunity cost (since we spend 6-8 years in school compared to only 4 years), and of course much more in loans!
 
Unevanche makes some good points. Pharmacy is better than a B.S. in biology - if you're young enough - but as I've said before, if you start pharmacy school at 22, you're making as much as someone with their B.S. in computer programming does over their lifetime. Not a bad salary, by any means, but not nearly as much as the 100k/year figure would have you believe.
 
If the goal is to practice on the west coast is it true that's it's better to attend a pharmacy school on the west coat rather than one in the midwest?
 
Passion4Sci said:
Of course, the 77/77/68 assumes you take a lot of money for living expenses (~15k per year) but still, yeah... it's pricey.
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That it is! Oh well, if you want to practice in California, it'll help. (Yes, going to school in a region nearby your school should help, you'll build connections working/doing rotations.)
 
I guess at some point it does boil down to what matters more to you - paying more student loans and loving your career choice, or paying less loans and doing a job you're not in love with.

I choose the former, which is why at 26 years old I'm starting pharmacy pre-reqs and changing careers. Maybe it's not a smart move financially, but I'll be happier in the long run.
 
BallerinaRx said:
I guess at some point it does boil down to what matters more to you - paying more student loans and loving your career choice, or paying less loans and doing a job you're not in love with.

I choose the former, which is why at 26 years old I'm starting pharmacy pre-reqs and changing careers. Maybe it's not a smart move financially, but I'll be happier in the long run.
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One thing that's frustrated me lately is a friend whose father paid for their schooling (undergrad at a private university and pharmacy school) and they don't even like pharmacy.

Part of me wants to make sure I have a ton of money in place for my kids' college.

But if I do that, I think I might make them do one short tour in the military or peace corps before they can touch it. :smuggrin:
 
pharm B said:
One thing that's frustrated me lately is a friend whose father paid for their schooling (undergrad at a private university and pharmacy school) and they don't even like pharmacy.

Part of me wants to make sure I have a ton of money in place for my kids' college.

But if I do that, I think I might make them do one short tour in the military or peace corps before they can touch it. :smuggrin:
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Don't you need to be college grad or older to join the peace corps? Or is this some stupid misunderstanding that I have?
 
unevache said:
Don't you need to be college grad or older to join the peace corps? Or is this some stupid misunderstanding that I have?
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Actually, I think you're right. I was putting the cart ahead of the horse on that one. I believe they pay down student debt or something as an incentive to join.
 
I'm freaked about loans too. I am at my lifetime limits for stafford loans, however the majority of these loans I racked up in grad school. So the finance advisor told me I may be eligible as an Independent Undergrad since I didn't take as many loans out during undergrad. (St. Louis College of Pharmacy is that if you begin at Year 3, you are still considered an undergrad until Year 4--weird). So i don't know what I will get. I will probably have to get a MedCap loan from WellsFargo which is credit based, but it sux because I don't want my credit score to decrease by obtaining this other HUGE loan. I know my score is good (720), but I'm wondering how much my score will decrease if I get the private loans for school? It's my only option at this point!!! They don't have a lot of grants or merit based stuff at STLCOP, which is very disappointing. The only thing he talked to me about was loans--no scholarships or anything!
 
BallerinaRx said:
I guess at some point it does boil down to what matters more to you - paying more student loans and loving your career choice, or paying less loans and doing a job you're not in love with.

I choose the former, which is why at 26 years old I'm starting pharmacy pre-reqs and changing careers. Maybe it's not a smart move financially, but I'll be happier in the long run.
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You say you'll love pharmacy, but how long have you been working in a pharmacy? I know some people on this board have worked something like 6 years in a pharmacy, and so I'm not talking to them, but for the rest of us - how accurately is a year or two of pharmacy work going to prepare us for spending the rest of our lives in pharmacy? You mention that you just started pharmacy pre-reqs, have you even worked in a pharmacy?

25 years from now, are you still going to be talking about how you "love" pharmacy? When people talk like this, all I think of is the old saying, "The grass is always greener on the other side."
 
Pondering, an interesting viewpoint, but think about it this way too: Who can actually say, after 25 years, they still like the job they chose, or find it interesting?

I know what you're trying to get across to Ballerina there, but your criticism is a bit myopic also insofar as it goes that most people I have conversed with in the last several years have seemed more or less dissatisfied, in some way, with their profession.
 
Passion4Sci said:
Pondering, an interesting viewpoint, but think about it this way too: Who can actually say, after 25 years, they still like the job they chose, or find it interesting?

I know what you're trying to get across to Ballerina there, but your criticism is a bit myopic also insofar as it goes that most people I have conversed with in the last several years have seemed more or less dissatisfied, in some way, with their profession.
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Truth is no one wants to work. Work is what it is WORK. Anyone here would rather sit by the pool all day, reading or just relaxing than WORK. SO everyone will find some drawbacks to work b/c that's why it's called WORK. If it's all fun and no stress, then it's call a vacation! :laugh:
Yes, pharmacy is stressful and it's not fun like going to the beach, but what job is? :rolleyes:
 
SHC1984 said:
Truth is no one wants to work. Work is what it is WORK. Anyone here would rather sit by the pool all day, reading or just relaxing than WORK. SO everyone will find some drawbacks to work b/c that's why it's called WORK. If it's all fun and no stress, then it's call a vacation! :laugh:
Yes, pharmacy is stressful and it's not fun like going to the beach, but what job is? :rolleyes:
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professional partier?
 
Is anyone else sick of these threads?? I understand your concern but people know the numbers before coming in. If it bothers people that much don't do it or go to a state school...with the exception of California. You should be lucky you live in a country where you have the opportunity to BORROW money. Most countries don't have that option

I personally would never take out that much money.



State schools FTW! Ill be 30k under and that's with a BS. I feel sorry for you guys taking out so much money..I guess ill retire a lot earlier.. good luck. Don't take out that much money unless you really love pharmacy. If you're already doubting your decision now im VERY worried for you. Good luck
 
carbox said:
Is anyone else sick of these threads?? I understand your concern but people know the numbers before coming in. If it bothers people that much don't do it or go to a state school...with the exception of California. You should be lucky you live in a country where you have the opportunity to BORROW money. Most countries don't have that option

I personally would never take out that much money.



State schools FTW! Ill be 30k under and that's with a BS. I feel sorry for you guys taking out so much money..I guess ill retire a lot earlier.. good luck. Don't take out that much money unless you really love pharmacy. If you're already doubting your decision now im VERY worried for you. Good luck
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+1

100K is the most I will take out for pharmacy school. I will be 80K under when I get out. taking out more than 100K would be crazy.
 
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