jkdoctor

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Below are links to information regarding electives available at Loma Linda University and the elective schedule. LLU requires a criminal background check on all visiting students. If your application is accepted and you have not had a criminal background check completed in the past two years, we will provide you with the necessary additional information to obtain a background check specific to LLU. Students will not be allowed to begin a rotation until the criminal background check has been completed and verified. Students from COCA-accredited schools must have received a COMLEX score of 570 or greater, or a USMLE Step 1 score of 225 or greater.
 

whooooopwhoop

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Are they taking applications on VSAS? Their website isn’t updated for the 2020-2021 school year and it doesn’t have any COVID updates
 
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DrStephenStrange

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Interesting that COMLEX minimum score is 66th percentile and USMLE minimum score is 37th percentile.
Being 66th percentile among ~6000 test takers is a lot easier than being 37th percentile among ~18,000 USMD + ~10,000 IMG/FMG + ~3,000 USDO (about half of DO students take USMLE) = a total of ~31,000+ test takers. Beating 66% of 6000 test takers means doing better than 3,960 people, while beating 37% of 31,000 means doing better than 11,470 people.
 
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Ho0v-man

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Being 66th percentile among ~6000 test takers is a lot easier than being 37th percentile among ~18,000 USMD + ~10,000 IMG/FMG + ~3,000 USDO (about half of DO students take USMLE) = a total of ~31,000+ test takers. Beating 66% of 6000 test takers means doing better than 3,960 people, while beating 37% of 31,000 means doing better than 11,470 people.
Step percentiles are based off of USMDs and and Canadian MDs only iirc. But your point still stands.


Interesting that COMLEX minimum score is 66th percentile and USMLE minimum score is 37th percentile.
Yeah it’s almost like they set the bar higher for DOs. Wait...you don’t think that’s happening do you? Are you telling me DOs have to try harder to achieve the same results? I’ll alert the media!!!

But in all seriousness, a 570 is about as tough as a 225. It might be a little harder. Maybe.
 

Sardonix

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Yeah it’s almost like they set the bar higher for DOs. Wait...you don’t think that’s happening do you? Are you telling me DOs have to try harder to achieve the same results? I’ll alert the media!!!

But in all seriousness, a 570 is about as tough as a 225. It might be a little harder. Maybe.
JENKINS! POUR ME MY FINE OSTEOPATHIC SCOTCH SO I MIGHT SPIT IT OUT IN SHOCK, dare I say, SHOCK MY MAN!
 

jkdoctor

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Being 66th percentile among ~6000 test takers is a lot easier than being 37th percentile among ~18,000 USMD + ~10,000 IMG/FMG + ~3,000 USDO (about half of DO students take USMLE) = a total of ~31,000+ test takers. Beating 66% of 6000 test takers means doing better than 3,960 people, while beating 37% of 31,000 means doing better than 11,470 people.
I do not understand your argument because it would also mean that getting an 800 on COMLEX and doing better than 99% of exam takers (7000 0.99 = 6930 students) is not as good as getting a 225 on UMSLE and doing better than 37% of exam takers (22000 x .37 = 8140 students). I think that it is pretty certain that getting an 800 on COMLEX is more difficult than getting a 225 on USMLE.
 
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Hippocrates II

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In all honesty, I would probably do the same thing if I were in a similar position. They really have little to no incentive to take a DO when MD applicants are abundant, and a DO is going to be more uncertain given the variability in education, so why not skim from the upper echelon of students?
 

DO2015CA

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570 for 225 is actually quite fair. Having been through that whole ringer, I would say a 570 is roughly equal to scoring a 225. When looking at away electives when I was coming up on 4th year you knew the places that didn’t want DOs because there cutoffs would be comlex 650-700 or a usmle of 200. There’s a discrepancy there. 570 for 225 isn’t much of a discrepancy
 

FutureDoctor5000

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Below are links to information regarding electives available at Loma Linda University and the elective schedule. LLU requires a criminal background check on all visiting students. If your application is accepted and you have not had a criminal background check completed in the past two years, we will provide you with the necessary additional information to obtain a background check specific to LLU. Students will not be allowed to begin a rotation until the criminal background check has been completed and verified. Students from COCA-accredited schools must have received a COMLEX score of 570 or greater, or a USMLE Step 1 score of 225 or greater.
Also it says “or” so if you take step 1 and get a 225 you should be good, even if your comlex isn’t a 570??
 

DO2015CA

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Also it says “or” so if you take step 1 and get a 225 you should be good, even if your comlex isn’t a 570??
Correct. The problem I’ve heard of but haven’t actually seen is they won’t accept you if you get a 570 but not a 225
 
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FutureDoctor5000

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Correct. The problem I’ve heard of but haven’t actually seen is they won’t accept you if you get a 570 but not a 225
Hmm I see in that case it actually hurts you to take step...
 

TeddyBoomBoom

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Some of you guys are missing the point. You can’t just go by percentiles, because most DOs don’t take the USMLE. The percentiles come from very
different pools.

The USMLE is a *MUCH* harder test. How many people in our DO medical school classes were planning on taking Step 1, right up until their NBMEs repeatedly suggested a poor performance?

It’s not accurate that it’s equally difficult to score a certain percentile in two different exams when the pool of test takers is different.
 

cptsam

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Some of you guys are missing the point. You can’t just go by percentiles, because most DOs don’t take the USMLE. The percentiles come from very
different pools.

The USMLE is a *MUCH* harder test. How many people in our DO medical school classes were planning on taking Step 1, right up until their NBMEs repeatedly suggested a poor performance?

It’s not accurate that it’s equally difficult to score a certain percentile in two different exams when the pool of test takers is different.
Isn't COMLEX longer, poorly written, and test way more vague stuff than USMLE?
 

TeddyBoomBoom

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It is, and it’s extremely annoying, but it’s primarily first order questions.
This is from my direct memory. I was taking the COMLEX and the question described a sex worker with a rash, ulcer, spirochete, and the answer to the question was “syphilis.” Obvious. I had a very similar question stem on step 1, but the question was like “given the patient’s likely condition, what is the most likely side effect of the 2nd line medication given if the patient was unable to tolerate the first line medication. The USMLEs make you think a lot more, instead of just memorizing buzz words.
 

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Correct. The problem I’ve heard of but haven’t actually seen is they won’t accept you if you get a 570 but not a 225
I’m 508 / 225 and have many auditions coming up where they took me because my Step met the bar. As DOs we basically get 2 chances at this, a huge blessing when you think about it.
 

Dr.Bruh

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Isn't COMLEX longer, poorly written, and test way more vague stuff than USMLE?
Yeah i've taken Step/Comlex 1 and 2 and i'd rather take USMLE 5 days in a row then ever sit for a comlex exam again. COMLEX is far more mentally and physicially exhausting. When you study for step you pretty much get what you expect and prepared for. But with comlex you're like wtf, the material they are pulling from is far larger than step and more random. There's def more straight up "easy" questions on comlex but idk if thats just because theres like 120 more questions than step so they have way more room to add a ton of gimmees. Raw numbers i'm sure there is a similar number of tough 3rd order questions on both exams.
 

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OP, I didn't like this either when I saw it as a medical student, but honestly, doing this is probably only to their detriment. Look at how many of their programs had to SOAP in the last few years. It also completely ignores the pool of local applicants that in my opinion they should favor, especially given their mission statement.
 
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DO2015CA

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I’m 508 / 225 and have many auditions coming up where they took me because my Step met the bar. As DOs we basically get 2 chances at this, a huge blessing when you think about it.
This is opposite from what my example is. Ofc they take the step meeting the mark example. I’m referring to opposite
 

acapnial

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They could have just said minimum USMLE 225 or nothing. That they're willing to take a comlex score instead as a benchmark of competence is really a pro-osteo sentiment.
 
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FutureDoctor5000

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They could have just said minimum USMLE 225 or nothing. That they're willing to take a comlex score instead as a benchmark of competence is really a pro-osteo sentiment.
I mean 25% of all current medical students are in osteo schools so yea many schools put it as a benchmark.. loma linda is pretty DO friendly
 
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sunshinefl

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Step percentiles are based off of USMDs and and Canadian MDs only iirc. But your point still stands.



Yeah it’s almost like they set the bar higher for DOs. Wait...you don’t think that’s happening do you? Are you telling me DOs have to try harder to achieve the same results? I’ll alert the media!!!

But in all seriousness, a 570 is about as tough as a 225. It might be a little harder. Maybe.
570 for 225 is actually quite fair. Having been through that whole ringer, I would say a 570 is roughly equal to scoring a 225. When looking at away electives when I was coming up on 4th year you knew the places that didn’t want DOs because there cutoffs would be comlex 650-700 or a usmle of 200. There’s a discrepancy there. 570 for 225 isn’t much of a discrepancy
In addition to @Spectreman who is my classmate with a 508/225, I have another classmate with a 412/226 (Step 1 was taken after 3rd year). So it definitely can happen.
 

DO2015CA

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In addition to @Spectreman who is my classmate with a 508/225, I have another classmate with a 412/226 (Step 1 was taken after 3rd year). So it definitely can happen.
Then there are handfuls of 600s/205s. Just gives more evidence that comlex should not be correlated to USMLE and that comlex should be abolished
 

AnatomyGrey12

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Then there are handfuls of 600s/205s. Just gives more evidence that comlex should not be correlated to USMLE and that comlex should be abolished
Yeah honestly the more I look into it, because the NBOME's constant squawking got me curious, you can't really compare the tests. In one study COMLEX score is only loosely correlated to USMLE score ~60% of the time. My new opinion is that they need to be treated as completely separate exams, and success on one in no way means you will be successful on the other.

Bottom line, get rid of COMLEX. It's worthless.
 
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Spectreman

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Yeah honestly the more I look into it, because the NBOME's constant squawking got me curious, you can't really compare the tests. In one study COMLEX score is only loosely correlated to USMLE score ~60% of the time. My new opinion is that they need to be treated as completely separate exams, and success on one in no way means you will be successful on the other.

Bottom line, get rid of COMLEX. It's worthless.
In that case I wonder how either can really dictate success in residency and those subsequent boards. My guess is Step is well correlated while Comlex is once again a crapshoot. Again proving how worthless it is.

But to the previous argument, how many of us know people who did okay on Comlex and then FAILED step, or bombed it so hard they didn’t report it? And their app wasn’t utterly wrecked over it.
Again, we’re kind of lucky when you think about it.
 
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In that case I wonder how either can really dictate success in residency and those subsequent boards. My guess is Step is well correlated while Comlex is once again a crapshoot. Again proving how worthless it is.

But to the previous argument, how many of us know people who did okay on Comlex and then FAILED step, or bombed it so hard they didn’t report it? And their app wasn’t utterly wrecked over it.
Again, we’re kind of lucky when you think about it.
Can you actually not report Step?
 

Spectreman

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Can you actually not report Step?
Many DO students have done this in the past, but if it comes up in the interview the general consensus (and common sense) is DO NOT LIE and say you didn’t take it. That said, if you have a really solid answer - having only Comlex that is good enough for an interview just saved your butt right? Cause that F would have gotten anyone screened out immediately. They aren’t going to assume right off that you failed it because many students just don’t take it and by then you’ve made it to the interview.

Anyway, yes, you can chose not to release your Step score as a DO student.
 

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Interesting that COMLEX minimum score is 66th percentile and USMLE minimum score is 37th percentile.
In case people missed your point, jk, it says a lot about what people think of COMLEX compared to USMLE. You listening, Dr Gimpel???
 

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Personally it's disappointing to see Loma Linda U, a supposedly DO-friendly program in CA puts such disproportion cutoffs between 2 exams. Makes me wonder how they would rank DO applicants.
 

Goro

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Personally it's disappointing to see Loma Linda U, a supposedly DO-friendly program in CA puts such disproportion cutoffs between 2 exams. Makes me wonder how they would rank DO applicants.
My school has sent grads there, and even into uber-specialties.
 

AnatomyGrey12

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Personally it's disappointing to see Loma Linda U, a supposedly DO-friendly program in CA puts such disproportion cutoffs between 2 exams. Makes me wonder how they would rank DO applicants.
I mean, it’s really not that crazy. Just take Step get a 225+ if you want to meet the cutoff.

The majority of programs want to see a Step score and don’t care about COMLEX. Not sure why it’s disheartening to see evidence of that.
 

Dr. Rafiki

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Some of you guys are missing the point. You can’t just go by percentiles, because most DOs don’t take the USMLE. The percentiles come from very
different pools.

The USMLE is a *MUCH* harder test. How many people in our DO medical school classes were planning on taking Step 1, right up until their NBMEs repeatedly suggested a poor performance?

It’s not accurate that it’s equally difficult to score a certain percentile in two different exams when the pool of test takers is different.
I thought the COMLEX was *MUCH* harder than the USMLE, actually. Especially if OMM is a weak spot. I also had few to no first order questions on Level 1 whereas I had at least 10 on Step 1.
 
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sunshinefl

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