Loma Linda

[naya]

Has anyone heard recently from Loma Linda?

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[singing doc]

Hi suz,

I haven't heard a peep from them either! I'm sure there are a few out there that have gotten interviews, but I'm still waiting (impatiently, of course)!

Keep me updated if you have news.

 

[THE instiGATOR]

Is it wrong that I really don't like this school?!? Using religion as a basis for admission is the equivalent of using race, in my opinion. I wish you all the best of luck with your application, but I hope you don't choose to attend this school if you have multiple options. Maybe if they are turned down more often, they will reconsider their admission process.

You may hate me for saying the following. If I were head of a residency program, I'd be reluctant to place Loma Linda applicants. If alumni from the school don't have success in residency placement, applicants might not look too highly at Loma Linda. As a result, the school might change its policy.

I know this is probably an extreme opinion, but it burns me that they can hold religion against people.

Anyone agree? Disagree?

Again, no offense to those who are applying to the school. It's the school that rubs me the wrong way, not the applicants.

peace

 

[Vasiley Zaitsev]

•••quote:•••
You may hate me for saying the following. If I were head of a residency program, I'd be reluctant to place Loma Linda applicants. If alumni from the school don't have success in residency placement, applicants might not look too highly at Loma Linda. As a result, the school might change its policy.

I know this is probably an extreme opinion, but it burns me that they can hold religion against people.

[/QB]••••swamp,

you know I'm not being ugly towards ya, but look at what you just said..you wouldn't place their grads if you were a Prog. Dir. for a residency?? Who is the person that is holding religion against people!?!

owcc16

 

[THE instiGATOR]

I wouldn't be holding the religion of the applicant against him/her. I'd be using supply and demand to cause an effect. I would be holding the applicant's selection of a med school against him/her. It's unfortunate that he/she will be negatively affected, but he/she did choose to go to a school that openly discriminates.

This would be like me refusing to go to a restaurant that has a no black customer policy (this wouldn't happen today, but it did back in the day). Unfortunately, the cooks and dishwashers will be harmed financially in the process. They may have no probs with serving black customers, but they do work at the owners discriminating restaurant...hence they support his views.

 

[nysurg]

Hey suz,
my friend just got an invite from them last week. I don't know if she has scheduled it. She is SDA.

Hey SwampMan,
I see what you are saying...I didn't apply there for the same reasons but maybe you can think of it like this...there are Historically Black Universities and Colleges for a reason maybe there is a SDA school for a reason.

just my 2 cents.

 

[THE instiGATOR]

I don't support all black universities either. There is no need for separation. That would be like having an all white university, which would never fly.

 

[The Falconer]

SwampMan...I could rant on and on to you my man, but its apparent that you don't know as much as you believe you do about LLU SOM. Yes they do give preference to SDAs, HOWEVER they do accept many non-SDA people that demonstrate positive spiritual beliefs. I believe the estimates on non-SDAs are between 15-30%. While you may still consider that high, also consider that the school is funded by the SDA church also. I'd have to agree with owcc16, you need to walk the walk if you are going to talk the talk. You say you'd hold the applicant's selection of a med school against them in this case? Someone desires a medical education with an encompassing religios aspect and you're going to hold that against them? Dang buddy did some SDA kid beat you up when you were little? I truly don't understand the intolerance that some people demonstrate based on religion. Before you spout off Swamp man- I know of Muslims, Jews and other Christian faiths (Mormons, Methodists, Catholics, etc) that attend LLU in some form or fashion. Chill out and educate yourself partner, If you are going to be a doctor you should get in the practice of being tolerant of others now.

 

[THE instiGATOR]

I'd have no problem accepting an SDA. I'd just accept him/her from another university.

Just because the school is kind enough to accept highly qualified non-SDA students (all of whom are religious), doesn't mean that they are a non-discriminating school. I don't care who funds the school. If the KKK opened a med school and only wanted to let white students in, I'd treat them similarly.

I understand your opposition to my stance. Since you have an LL acceptance and will likely attend (correct?), it may directly affect you. Good luck! Hopefully you won't run into any "intolerant" characters like myself.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

I haven't heard from LLUSOM in 6 months. Is it because I display negative spiritual beliefs? Even the traditional "all black" schools let some white and other folk in. Is there anyone at Loma Linda who is not from a Jewish, Christian, or Muslim sect?

 

[UCMonkey]

I'm actually gonna agree with SwampMan to an extent on this one.

While I have no doubt that LLU accepts highly qualified non-SDA's, it means that they probably also accept some underqualified SDA's. I have heard circumstantial accounts of this. Also, I have heard that for non-SDA's, the environment can be at least somewhat antagonistic (i.e. mandatory church attendance, which would be VERY tought for me to swallow as a Jew). I have also heard that the SDA students tend to look down on the non-SDA's.

Overall, it seems to me that these things combine to discourage non-SDA's from applying (I know they did for me).

As for if I was a residency PD, I think I would look very critically at the qualifications of an LLU grad trying to match into my program. I'm not sure I would go so far as to deny them solely to teach the school a lesson, but I think I would probably look into their motivation to attend that school, as scrutinize their past academic record perhaps a bit more closely.

 

[pwrpfgrl]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by nypostbac:
•
there are Historically Black Universities and Colleges for a reason maybe there is a SDA school for a reason.
•••••I'm not sure you can compare LL with historically black universities - generally, the black universities provide a place for students that may have had a disadvantaged background. I don't think LL is trying to help the "disadvantaged" SDA's. The fact that they accept based on the strength of your religious views (even if it IS regardless of which particular religion - which it's not) doesn't seem right to me. I have very strong beliefs about helping my community and patients, but it's not tied to any religion, and LL probably won't admit me because of it.

however, on the other hand, i think that having strong feelings about anything is important, and it's good, in a way, that LL puts emphasis on that. and i would respect someone for wanting to go to a school where their fellow students have strong beliefs (although - in this case - they'd all pretty much have the same, strong beliefs)

anyway, that's just my opinion.

 

[megkudos]

I have to agree with SwampMan on this one. It's seems archaic to admit people based on their religious preference. Yes, the school is private and can do whatever they want, but man, it kinda freaks me out. Haven't we come farther than that in this country?

 

[Jalby]

Wow. I'll be one of the first to defend Loma Linda on this. A SDA church owns and runs the school. It is a private school that doesn't recieve funding (thae I know of) from that state. I think that it is perfectly apropriate that they can set their admission standards any way that they choose. They want to provide a learning environment that is based on religion and it makes sense to factor in peoples religion as a basis for admission. The goal isn't for the best doctors, but religous doctors.

It would be the equivalent of if the church decided to run a homeless shelter, but they wanted it to be a christian homeless shelter. They could tell people who arn't christian that they can't be there, and that is perfectly in thier rights as a private entity. Nothing says they have to admit everyone without regards to religion.

 

[THE instiGATOR]

Sure, LLU has a right to use whatever criteria it wants for admission. A few important questions are, however:

Should premeds opposed to discrimination apply to a school that is clearly discriminating against those without religious convictions? If so, why? Just because they may have an advantage at the school?

Should those who do choose to apply elect to attend if they have multiple offers? Is this not encouraging discrimination?

Should residency directors opposed to discrimination create a demand for the discriminating school by admitting its students?

I'm not saying that law enforcement officials should break down doors. I'm just wondering why people encourage the school's behaviour. Are they not simultaneously supporting discrimination? I think they are.

 

[Ceelo]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by SwampMan:
•I don't support all black universities either. There is no need for separation. That would be like having an all white university, which would never fly.•••••"all black" universities serve a purpose just like LL serves a purpose. these school cater towards a certain type of physician. if you don't fit that mold, then don't sweat it. no need to dog that school.

 

[moo]

Although the SDA church does run LLU, I don't believe it has the right to outright discrimination. The same can be said of white restaurant owners in the deep south back in the 50s and 60s. The common battle cry then was "It's my restaurant, I can choose who I want to serve." That was wrong then, and it's wrong now. Also, it seems as if they are discouraging religious tolerance--I don't know because I don't go there, but any school that would force you to go church (especially when we're all adults here) is definitely not a school I would want to go to... If you're happy there, then I'm happy for you, but LLU wouldn't be a place I'd be happy at.

 

[THE instiGATOR]

I haven't dogged the school (for the most part). I've just been asking questions.

Sorry if I don't see the purpose in these schools.

Does the hospital at Loma Linda only cater to religious people? I'm sure it doesn't. Anyone with $$$ is probably welcomed. I'd be surprised if it did only treat religious folk (plesantly). I admire consistency. If they do admit non-religious patients, they should do the same with their med class. Anyone with high credentials should be considered.

 

[LomaLindian]

The great thing about America is that ppl can express their opinions. Swampman, you have a right to voice your opinion of an institution. Of course Loma Linda is discriminatory, they have the right to be. Heck, I was discriminated against when I applied to UCSF--they didn't give me an interview because my MCAT scores and GPA weren't high enough. I'm not complaining. I didn't fit the mold of physician that they were striving for.

The bottom line is this about Loma Linda. If you want to get a great education with an emphasis on ethics coming from a christian perspective, LL could be the right place for you. If you think they are discriminating, don't apply. Simple as that.

Please refer to the thread <a href="http://www.studentdoctor.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001888" target="_blank">http://www.studentdoctor.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001888</a> for another look at this discussion.

Also, to stop any more rumors that seem to be running wild on this thread--Loma Linda DOES NOT in ANY shape or form force people to go to church. Many of my friends don't go or attend church on Sunday. They are ALL great people.

 

[THE instiGATOR]

I agree, Loma Lindian. That's why I affirmed their right to do whatever they want on my last post of the first page of this thread.

I just think it is rediculous that a school would assume non-religious people are not worthy of a medical education. Both my parents are Catholic, so I know a bit about religious ethics. It just so happens that I don't agree with my parents.

I also don't agree with the school's separatist attitude.

I never have applied to the school. I wouldn't support their actions that way.

As I've asked before, should people support their discrimination? I can only assume that those who do are not in opposition to discrimination. What's that say about these folks?

 

[orestes1]

Quote from Swampman
Does the hospital at Loma Linda only cater to religious people? I'm sure it doesn't. Anyone with $$$ is probably welcomed. I'd be surprised if it did only treat religious folk (plesantly). I admire consistency. If they do admit non-religious patients, they should do the same with their med class. Anyone with high credentials should be considered.

Then you would be discriminating against people with low credentials.

 

[THE instiGATOR]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by orestes1:
•Quote from Swampman
Does the hospital at Loma Linda only cater to religious people? I'm sure it doesn't. Anyone with $$$ is probably welcomed. I'd be surprised if it did only treat religious folk (plesantly). I admire consistency. If they do admit non-religious patients, they should do the same with their med class. Anyone with high credentials should be considered.

Then you would be discriminating against people with low credentials. •••••Discrimination is when you hold something that cannot or should not be changed against someone. Low credentials can be changed. One's religion isn't something one should change to please a med school or meet its requrements.

 

[Jalby]

The Bill of Rights says that people have the right to practice their however they want to. This is one of the most basic rights here in UCLA. If a religion wants to create a medical school and run it however they want, that is there right. If they want to look for religous people for there medical school, more power to them. There is no law that says medical schools can't descriminate on the basis of religion. S***, they descriminate based on race all the time.
Residency directors are looking for people who fit best in their system. They also have the right to pick whoever they want. If they feel Loma Linda produces good doctor's, the'll pick them for their programs. That's there right.

 

[THE instiGATOR]

Sure, it's their right to support discrimination. The question is: Is it right to support discrimination?