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London Medical College

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johnny

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Hi,

I just wanted to reply to a statement in another thread where you questioned whether a four-year program in the UK is approved by the US medical system. Neither the US, nor its medical authorities (such as ECFMG), approve any foreign program in any country. The WHO publishes a list of recognized medical schools throughout the world, and this is what is used by the ECFMG (this is the US governing body for foreign medical graduates) to decide whether an IMG is qualified to sit the USMLE's and ultimately obtain residency/fellowship in the US. In other words, if your medical school isn't on that list, you're not gonna be allowed to practice in the US. Since the UK medical schools offering these "fast-track" programs are on the WHO list, a graduate of one would certainly be eligible to obtain residency in the US (provided they follow the correct procedures --- USMLE's, CSA, TOEFL etc...).

The interesting thing about the medical school you mentioned is that it doesn't look as though it's a "proper" UK medical school. I mean that it appears to be a program set up similarly to the caribbean med schools where US students can study abroad for two years, do US clinicals for two years, take the appropriate exams and apply through the match for a residency. Even if they're using a UK university's classrooms, I doubt this school is chartered as a British medical school. In fact, I'm sure if you check with the WHO it is probably chartered to be in a carribean island or African country similar to another medical school for US students operating in England. Either way the medical school isn't intended for British students (you can check easily by asking them if their graduates are able to practice in the UK after graduation without having to take the PLAB (British equivalent of the USMLE's that only non-British grads have to take)). Whatever you decide, make sure your medical school is on the WHO list of approved medical schools.

Best of luck.
 

UKMD

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This medical School is not in the WHO list and will never be. The UK goverment must approve it and ccan't see that hapenning. Be careful!! Be very Careful
 

Scottish Chap

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UKMD,

Johnny, however, was right. It seems that the Medical College of London (MCL) is a satellite campus......for the International University of the Health Sciences St. Kitts, West Indies. This school is on the WHO list, but it's very new.
 

bambi

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Which London med school are you talking about scottish chap?
 

kadiyala99

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Folks, am i the only one that's watching this massive fraud on many sites such as this one, or is everyone just keeping mum, about these "UK" schools, and their claims. I'm apalled at some of the claims that these schools and their "Medical students" make, on sites such as this...
Where do these "UK" "Medical students" come up with so much time during the semester, to leave as many messages as they do?
It seems like a number of these schools claiming to be in the UK, are massively misleading young unsuspecting students. It should be said that a large number of these so called "UK" schools, are in reality, chartered by countries such as senegal, uganda, belize, or some little caribbean island. It is very disconcerting to see the silence of site managers. Is it because they advertise on these sites, that the sites themselves are mum about the reality of these schools???
 

bts4202

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Originally posted by kadiyala99 Dear NJDESI,
I am the president of a new company does just what you might be looking for...
we provide clinical rotations for students. While our primary focus is to provide clinical rotations in US hospitals, for international students we also occasionally provide rotations for us students going abroad. Which country/countries would you be interested in?
regards, and goodluck.
[email protected]

what exactley are you trying to sell? I already have a used car... sorry!
 

kadiyala99

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I guess when you've been doing, what you've been doing on these sites, for as long as you have, the distinction between selling a medical school as something it's not, and selling used cars gets hazy... doesnt it?
I love this chat... It's bringing out the best in you... keep chatting bts..
keep talking.
This how people find out a little bit more about stchris.edu, and it's history...
 

poly

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Originally posted by kadiyala99
I guess when you've been doing, what you've been doing on these sites, for as long as you have, the distinction between selling a medical school as something it's not, and selling used cars gets hazy... doesnt it?
I love this chat... It's bringing out the best in you... keep chatting bts..
keep talking.
This how people find out a little bit more about stchris.edu, and it's history...

I have found that bts4202 has been up front in his comments when he posted here and valueMD.

Side note: he is a very prolific poster in many places (where does he get the time? :) ).
 

lola

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the rumor about graduates from the uk fast track programs not being able to practice in the u.s. came from me. it is actually that they would not be able to practice in california, as california doesn't recognize the fast track programs (yet, anyway). at least this is what someone from the medical licensing board (or whatever it's called) in california told me (twice when i questioned her on it the first time b/c i thought it sounded very strange).
 

bts4202

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Originally posted by poly
I have found that bts4202 has been up front in his comments when he posted here and valueMD.

Side note: he is a very prolific poster in many places (where does he get the time? :) ).

Thank you poly. At least one person supports me.. :)
 

kadiyala99

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where DO you get the time???

med school was tough, and people were exhausted at the end of the day. What's your secret to the extra energy?
protein shakes?
extra coffee??
 

bts4202

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Med school WAS tough?????

What are you talking about???? In some posts here you claim to be looking for a school to attend, in some posts you are selling clinical rotations, then in others you claim to be a graduate?? Who are you really?
 

kadiyala99

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i dont think i've ever claimed to be a med student atleast not in the past few years....
I graduated in '94,
I do occasionally contact students on campuses for their input on certain problems that are present, or perceived to be present
i do visit quite a few campuses each year for this purpose, as a consultant.

why do you keep making personal attacks, rather than to answer the questions posed?
You go to a school, that's had many problems,
makes very dubious representations,
and has you as their spokesman, or woman, who blindly keeps waving the stchris flag, even after you've admitted to problems in the past. at st.chris, upon confrontation..

The assertion that st.chris is suddenly this awesome place, is laughable, considering it's long history and questionable history, it's current misrepresentations, it's polyspamming attacks, and apparently, even the use of pictures of a cambridge building as your own...
do you not see the credibility gaps here..??/??

This is not attack on you, your beliefs, or your morality.
It's meant to be an eye opener to all those youngsters that would like to attend a credible university that has institutional integrity.
I'm sure you'd agree that all info, good and bad, on a school should be available to students. If that's your belief also, you should also tell the students about all the problems st.chris has had in the past....
along with all the praises you sing, of St.Chris, Luton, England..
 

mtt

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Thank you for your email, and thank you for the excellent questions. Your questions are unique. Here are some answers, with a general description of our programs to follow.

MCL has a long term affiliation with the College of Medicine and Health Sciences, St Lucia, and operates the MD program under the authority of the St Lucia Charter. The WHO and ECFMG listing is all under the same number, that of the primary charter of St Lucia. The Directors of that program any myself have been colleagues for a considerable time, having taught at medical schools in Philadelphia and elsewhere.

MCL previously coordinated the placement of all AISM students for their clinical training in the UK, since they do not have any Campus, clinical representative, or hospital based clinical training here. We no longer have any affiliation with AISM, and no longer place their students.

MCL contracts for academic space and Instructional resources with Kings College and the University of Greenwich in the UK. We believe it important that if we are to conduct a serious academic program, we have to have access to adequate educational resources, such as qualified faculty, medical libraries, academic computing, and others. Our students are also issued a Kings College ID card, which give them access to the above resources on an as needed basis. For those students who desire to join, the Royal Society of Medicine nearby provides additional resources. We will reimburse 50% of the registration costs to any of our students who seeks RCM membership. It is a very valuable resource during medical study.

The MBBS program at Kings is conducted largely at the Guy's campus, where MCL has their students. This is a highly rated program, among the top 10 in Europe and considered by most to be the number one in the UK. We are the only outside program conducting a program at Kings. While there are some differences between that and an MD program, the content is similar. MCL conducts additional courses (Biochemistry, Embryology, Nutrition, Medical genetics, etc) over and above the Kings program. The additional lectures are given at Kings College by our faculty and theirs. For the common lectures (about 2/3 of the total), our students are integrated with Kings students, and take the same classes. Nutrition is taught by MCL faculty at Kings, and by MCL and Greenwich faculty at Greenwich. Students can take courses at either or both campus locations. About 2/3 of the faculty are tenures at one of the participating Institutions, and most hold professorial academic rank. On a personal note, my Professorship was earned at Drexel-MCP Hahnemann University in the USA nearly 20 years ago, and my Doctorate at the University of Vermont College of Medicine. Other faculty hold comparable credentials.

The curriculum is based on an assessment of MD programs from several European Countries, North and South America, and Africa, and with implementation of recommendations for medical education particularly as it applies to Nutrition by the National Institutes of Health in the USA. The program places a strong emphasis on Preventative Medicine, not just the
treatment of disease. Moreover, the curriculum incorporates important applications of educational philosophy, such that for each course that is taught, the following semester will include topics that reinforce key topics of the previous semester.

We are happy to place a brochure in the regular mail for you if you can provide us with a mailing address. Until you receive the brochure, I am pleased to tell you a little bit more about our College.

MCL is a private Medical College in the UK originally formed in 2001, and an affiliate of the College of Medicine and Health Sciences, St Lucia. We are also conduct academic programs at Guys Campus, Kings College London and the University of Greenwich, where we use a combination of regular faculty from Kings, Greenwich, and MCL. All of our faculty are conventional University faculty, and many (about 2/3) are tenured in at least one of the Institutions. In addition, we have research collaborations with faculty at the University of the Sciences in Philadelphia, and the Institute of Pathology at the University of Heidelberg, in Germany.

MCL accepts 3 classes in the MD program each academic year, in the months of September, January, and May. The September start date will be approximately 15th September 2003. Classes are conducted throughout the year. Any premedical classes previously taken plus courses taken in the basic medical sciences may be applied toward award of the BSc as part of your medical studies. The BSc program in Health Sciences is based at the University of Greenwich campus at Medway. This is a beautiful campus designed by Sir Christopher Wren, and situated on the Medway River. Until a few years ago, it was the site of the former Royal Naval College and Maritime Industry in UK for over 400 years. Programs in Health Sciences include premedical sciences, nutrition, sports sciences, and others. The BSc is a 3 year/6 semester program of instruction. MCL also lists MSc and PhD courses of study in the same areas of concentration, and which may be linked to the MD program summarized below.

The MD program at MCL includes 5 semesters of Basic Sciences, which are conducted at the Guy's Campus of Kings College, located in Central London (originally established 1829), just South of London Bridge. This is one of the most highly rated medical schools in the UK and the EU, and we are privileged to have the opportunity to deliver the basic sciences on this prestigious campus. Lectures are presented by both Kings and MCL faculty. The clinical training (78 weeks) is conducted at teaching hospitals in the UK for students of the UK and other EU Nations, and in the USA for
students who seek to practice medicine in the USA. Students participate in clinically oriented problem solving workshops from the first semester, and are well prepared for clinical study by the time they complete the 5th semester of classes. All US clinicals are in Greenbook listed hospitals.

MCL conducts both a 5-year and a 4-year MD program, depending on the qualifications of the individual applicant. MCL welcomes applicants from all Nations independently of age, race, gender, creed, or National origin, and provides the knowledge base for students to sit for the licensure examinations for most countries including the USA. MCL also offers a Diploma in International Medicine as an additional qualification for those
students who elect to venture outside their primary culture and experience medicine from the perspective of a culture distant from their own as part of their elective clinical training. This last point has become an important consideration for medical practitioners worldwide because medical practice
has become considerably more global in nature than in the past as people travel to distant cultures and encounter illnesses which may not be endemic to the primary culture in which they have trained.

MCL admits on the EU standard and therefore does not require GRE, MCAT, or other traditional test scores commonly used in the USA, but if a student has taken them, they may report them on their application without penalty. MCL does require one year each of Biological Sciences, Mathematics, English (including composition) and Chemistry (to organic), and prefers but does not require a mixture of courses in psychology and social sciences, physics, and the liberal arts among its applicants. Practical knowledge of computer applications is essential.

MCL conducts a program in premedical Sciences at the University of Greenwich-Medway Campus, approximately 25 miles East of London, situated near the historic Medway River. For applicants from outside the USA, MCL requires 'A' level or equivalent courses or strong 'O' level courses equal to the above. Students who lack one or more of the core prerequisites may enrol in the 5-year program (includes premedical sciences) while students who have completed the academic prerequisites at any Institution of higher education (beyond high school) may enrol in the 4-year program if academically qualified. Each applicant is considered for admission on his or her own merits. Applications may be submitted at any time, and a decision will usually be made within a fortnight.

MCL has some student loans pending for US residents through major US lenders, and which should be finalized in the very near future. We also have a limited number of College-based partial Merit Scholarships made available by our Board of Directors for the current year.

For more about Medical College of London, see our web site at
www.mcl-edu.co.uk.

We hope that this information has been useful. We look forward to hearing from you in the near future. We have enclosed an application form for your review, and thanks again for your email. It was a pleasure to respond to your individual questions.

Kindest Regards,


Orien L. Tulp, Ph.D., F.A.C.N., C.N.S.
Professor of Pharmacology and Nutritional Sciences
Director, Medical College of London
 

bts4202

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1. Show me proof of any "polyspamming"or misrepresentations. BTW, the pics of cambridge were used when the school was in cambridge and using cambridge university classrooms to teach out of.

2. "long history and questionable history"? the school has a 5 year history, how is that long? And what school ANYWHERE didn't have problems in the first few years they were open? The point of my post was to show that problems are recognized and all efforets are made to correct them, not only are the efforts made, they are usually very successful. No other "FMG" school that I know of that has made such drastic improvements in the first 5 years they were open. It even took st george longer than that to gain some of the attributes that st chris has already such as early pt. exposure and look at them now. They are considered one of the best foriegn medical schools around.

3. If you visit so many schools as a consultant you should know that you don't know crap about a school until you visit it, check out all of the facilities, and talk to students and faculty. I suggest that rather than issue vailed accusations of st chris having no institutional integrity or credability, you come and do one of your "consultations" here and see for yourself what you claim to be "laughable". Otherwise you are giving ignorant opinions.

4. I do agree that all info should be available to students, however you have claimed that I am singing this outrageous praise of st chris when all I did was post a link to a new student website. The student website doesn't have any st chris praise eiether, it is purely factual info for people needing help or wanting info. It seems like you want to jump to condemnation of st chris and you have still yet to say one thing that is wrong with the school now. The only thing you can say is that there have been problems in the past and you got that information from me!! I believe that the real spammer is you. I will not respond to you again as I have realized you are nothing but a troll.
 

mtt

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MCL has a long term affiliation with the College of Medicine and Health Sciences, St Lucia, and operates the MD program under the authority of the St Lucia Charter. The WHO and ECFMG listing is all under the same number, that of the primary charter of St Lucia. The Directors of that program any myself have been colleagues for a considerable time, having taught at medical schools in Philadelphia and elsewhere.

UKMD,

Thanks for the reply and for the warning. Johnny, however, was right. It seems that the Medical College of London (MCL) is a satellite campus......for the International University of the Health Sciences St. Kitts, West Indies. This school is on the WHO list, but it's very new.

London Medical College has an affiliation with IUHS.

http://www.lsmedicine.com



There are four programs operating in England.

Kigezi
http://www.kigezi.edu

St Chris
http://www.stchris.edu

Medical College of London
http://www.mcl-edu.co.uk/

London Medical College
http://www.lsmedicine.com

The first two are chartered in African countries and the last two are chartered in Caribbean countries. England allows foreign medical schools to operate in their country if they come from developing countries in need of healthcare. England has interests in these countries because it provides them with resources and investments. In exchange, England is actively involved in the development of healthcare and infrastructure in these countries. Also, there is a cultural difference on how they view these countries in comparison to the U.S. England has a strong appreciation for African and Caribbean culture. They embrace them and take a proactive role in their development while the U.S. takes more of a critical and skeptical view on them.
 

mtt

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Folks, am i the only one that's watching this massive fraud on many sites such as this one, or is everyone just keeping mum, about these "UK" schools, and their claims. I'm apalled at some of the claims that these schools and their "Medical students" make, on sites such as this...


There is no fraud. The problem is somebody like you doesn't understand what you're talking about because you're not a student here. You're distorting information to make it appear that it is fraud. Unfortunately, we have to clean up after you because you are telling the public false information.


Where do these "UK" "Medical students" come up with so much time during the semester, to leave as many messages as they do?

It's called time management and experience.
Some of us have taken medical school courses at the graduate level so it gets easy after a while

It seems like a number of these schools claiming to be in the UK, are massively misleading young unsuspecting students. It should be said that a large number of these so called "UK" schools, are in reality, chartered by countries such as senegal, uganda, belize, or some little caribbean island. It is very disconcerting to see the silence of site managers. Is it because they advertise on these sites, that the sites themselves are mum about the reality of these schools???

We're not advertising but we're providing proper information about our school to prospective students.

Unfortunately, you don't understand British culture and their appreciation for African and Caribbean culture. They want to be actively involved in the development of healthcare and infrastructure in developing countries. Our school has two campuses. One in Senegal and one in England. The Senegal charter is used because St Chris is actively involved in the development of healthcare in Senegal.

We at Saint Christopher's College of Medicine are involved in many humanistic projects that the students and faculty can be proud of. We, in affiliation with the AAII, run twenty-seven programs in Senegal. They involve sending trained personnel into the countryside and villages to teach classes in reading, writing, math, and personal health care. We receive funding from the World Health Organization, the United Nations, and from student tuition to run these programs. We also run and help staff health care facilities and hospitals across the country.

If there are any prospects that have any further questions about the school, please visit ValueMD.com. We have setup a comprehensive FAQ and match list for you.
 

mtt

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Originally posted by kadiyala99

med school was tough, and people were exhausted at the end of the day.
[/B]

It's because they're inexperienced with the material.

These are usually people who are not science majors, did not complete college, are straight from undergrad school, or don't use their time properly.

Graduate students who specialized in the biomedical sciences are much stronger medical students and find the first two years of medical school repetitive.
 

mtt

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i dont think i've ever claimed to be a med student atleast not in the past few years....
I graduated in '94,

Graduated from what?
community college? undergrad? grad? med school?
You need to be specific.


I do occasionally contact students on campuses for their input on certain problems that are present, or perceived to be present
i do visit quite a few campuses each year for this purpose, as a consultant.


Consultant for what?
Your statements are vague.


You go to a school, that's had many problems, makes very dubious representations,and has you as their spokesman, or woman, who blindly keeps waving the stchris flag, even after you've admitted to problems in the past. at st.chris, upon confrontation..

He's not a spokesman for the school.

The assertion that st.chris is suddenly this awesome place, is laughable, considering it's long history and questionable history, it's current misrepresentations, it's polyspamming attacks, and apparently, even the use of pictures of a cambridge building as your own...do you not see the credibility gaps here..??/??


The only misrepresentation I see is coming from you.
There are no pictures of Cambridge on the St Chris website
or on ValueMD. Again, you're providing false information to
the public. You are misrepresenting and polyspamming the facts.

I wonder about your credibility.


This is not attack on you, your beliefs, or your morality.
It's meant to be an eye opener to all those youngsters that would like to attend a credible university that has institutional integrity.


We have institutional credibility. We are associated with King's College London and the University of Luton. We also are associated with Ealing hospital and other NHS hospitals around England. We practically train with Imperial students at Ealing hospital and have done better than them. In addition to this, we are actively involved in the improvement of healthcare in Luton with the cooperation of a number of NHS clinics. This term, we plan on expanding these relationships and we'll have the mayor of Luton and an MP visit the school. Also, our clinicals are affiliated with some well known institutions and our students are matching into university based programs.



I'm sure you'd agree that all info, good and bad, on a school should be available to students. If that's your belief also, you should also tell the students about all the problems st.chris has had in the past....along with all the praises you sing, of St.Chris, Luton, England..

Everything you wanted to know about St Chris has been provided here:

http://www.valuemd.com/viewforum.php?f=31
 

mtt

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RE: Medical College of London

I have researched it and I have visited the school.

Most of the students are Brits.
There are barely any Americans in the program.
Their whole basic sciences class is composed of about 40 students and they don't focus on the USMLE.

MCL is run by the Harringtons.
They are same ones that ran
St. John?s University School of Medicine .

http://www.doj.state.or.us/releases/rel072500.htm

If you visit the website of the College of Medicine and Health Sciences, you'll see that the Harringtons operate this medical school in St Lucia.

http://itgworld.com/MP_MD/

Read the fine print at the very bottom.
Notice it says "Interactive Technology Group."

Here's the charter and licensure stuff:

http://itgworld.com/MP_MD/licensure_Docs.html
 

Friendly

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Originally posted by mtt
RE: Medical College of London

I have researched it and I have visited the school.

Most of the students are Brits.
There are barely any Americans in the program.
Their whole basic sciences class is composed of about 40 students and they don't focus on the USMLE.

MCL is run by the Harringtons.
They are same ones that ran
St. John?s University School of Medicine .

http://www.doj.state.or.us/releases/rel072500.htm

If you visit the website of the College of Medicine and Health Sciences, you'll see that the Harringtons operate this medical school in St Lucia.

http://itgworld.com/MP_MD/

Read the fine print at the very bottom.
Notice it says "Interactive Technology Group."

Here's the charter and licensure stuff:

http://itgworld.com/MP_MD/licensure_Docs.html

I have spoken to the Dean of this school and it looks very, very suspect. When I asked to be put in touch with matriculated students, I was side-stepped. When I asked about the tuition and the policies regarding the "distance learning" component, I received vague and unsatisfactory answers.

I fail to believe that this school adequately prepares you for a medical career. Furthermore, since there is a shortage of doctors in the U.K., since there are a plethora of new more robust medical schools opening in the U.K., and since the class size of U.K. medical schools is now increasing, I have a very strong suspicion that those British students studying there were firmly rejected from all other schools.

Save your money! If you're interested in this school, please do not just read this but call the Dean and talk with him like I did. Ask honest questions about your concerns. The truth is always revealed in these cases.

Good luck!
 

Kev (UK)

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From the MCL web site:

"Please come and visit us on the Island where it all began. We think that you will be glad that you came"

That just sounds so ewwwwww :rolleyes:

Why would a US college be based in the UK? Seems bizarre to me.
 

Friendly

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Originally posted by Kev (UK)
From the MCL web site:

"Please come and visit us on the Island where it all began. We think that you will be glad that you came"

That just sounds so ewwwwww :rolleyes:

Why would a US college be based in the UK? Seems bizarre to me.

I second that and the answer to your question, I feel, is: they want to make money...this is why they're doing it. Their reasons for having a pseudo-American M.D. program in the U.K. were not explained to me when I asked very nicely and that's scary!

This appears to be a struggling program in its infancy....avoid it like the plague. The director gave me the impression that it has a very watered-down curriculum. If you're in the business of saving lives and helping people, you DO NOT want to train in that kind of environment. It may be ?fun? to train in, but it will only hurt you in the long run.

Anyone interested in joining this school should consider how heart-breaking it might be to waste all that money on a program that might have (any existing) credentials pulled half-way through or worse.....a program that may not get you a job. Let me urge you to take what I say as mere opinion for now and contact the director directly if you have an interest in attending.
 

Kev (UK)

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Will the graduates actually be able to register with the General Medical Council and practice medicine in the UK? :confused:
 

mtt

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Originally posted by flindophile
Just curious.. how does training US students in London facilitate African development.

This has been answered before. Please read the FAQ.

http://www.valuemd.com/viewtopic.php?t=994


What percentage of the student body at St. Chris in London are Senagalese?

Currently, I don't know of any students from Senegal. However, there are students from other African countries.
 

futrfysician

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Originally posted by flindophile
Just curious.. how does training US students in London facilitate African development. What percentage of the student body at St. Chris in London are Senagalese?

Saint Christopher's receives UN and WHO funding for the massive amount of healthcare development it does in that country and now 3 others. It has medical schools in that country and is starting a few others according to information given to us by the admin. I have now matriculated and spoke at length with Dr. Leone the President of the school who is more upfront than most of you are about who you are and what you do. Alan Bain is the managing Director and I trust him far more than I trust you because he means business about making SC a great institution.

SC as an entity in England has one Brit in my class, because he is categorically too old for the UK schools. If you hit 30, your app is trashed here. I would assume that the case in MCL might be akin to that BUT I am only speculating and so are you. I am the only one willing to admit that it seems.

No students HERE are Sengalese. I once ran music studio in Florida, but my corporate charter was in Delaware. Could I not operate in Florida since I was not initally incorporated there? was I supposed to work only for Delaware companies since I was a Delaware corp? I don't think you get it. I also don't care.

The school is fine. I like it here. You might not. I would highly discourage you from ever coming to England. You don't seem like the kind of person they want at SC.

This is not Harvard. Neither is the school you go to. Have a nice day.
 

Kev (UK)

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Originally posted by futrfysician
because he is categorically too old for the UK schools. If you hit 30, your app is trashed here

That statement is completely inaccurate. I have secured a place in a UK medical school and I am 37. A friend of mine has a place, she is 48. From the UK forum I am aware of over 20 others at least who have places starting this year and they are all over 30 years of age.

I do wish people who be certain of their facts before they post on this forum.

Can anyone answer my question I placed earlier? If you are a graduate of these private American-funded medical organisations in the UK, can you actually register with the GMC to practice medicine in the UK?
 

Stephen Ewen

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Can anyone answer my question I placed earlier? If you are a graduate of these private American-funded medical organisations in the UK, can you actually register with the GMC to practice medicine in the UK?

From http://www.gmc-uk.org/register/pr_fr_overseas.htm#4. pr

6. Recognised overseas primary medical qualifications

The primary medical qualifications which were recognised for provisional and full registration are set out below. Please note that you must have had your degree conferred before 31 October 2003 in order to be able to apply for full or provisional registration.

Country
Primary medical qualification

Australia
MB BS University of Adelaide
BM BS Flinders University of South Australia
MB BS University of Melbourne
MB BS Monash University, Victoria
B Med University of Newcastle, New South Wales
MB BS University of New South Wales
MB BS University of Queensland
MB BS University of Sydney
MB BS University of Tasmania
MB BS University of Western Australia

Hong Kong
MB ChB Chinese University of Hong Kong
MB BS University of Hong Kong

Malaysia
MB BS University of Malaya (see Note 1)

New Zealand
MB ChB University of Auckland
MB ChB University of Otago

Singapore
MB BS National University of Singapore

South Africa
MB ChB University of Cape Town
MB ChB University of Natal
MB ChB University of the Orange Free State
MB ChB University of Pretoria
MB ChB University of Stellenbosch
MB BCh University of the Witwatersrand

(Please not that the Medical University of South Africa (MEDUNSA) and the University of Transkei are not accepted for provisional or full registration. They are accepted only for limited registration)

West Indies
MB BS University of the West Indies

Note: The degrees of MB BS awarded by the University of Malaya on or before 31 December 1989 are recognised for full or provisional registration. The degrees of MB BS awarded by the University of Malaya on or after 1 January 1990 are not recognised for full or provisional registration. However, they are accepted for the purposes of limited registration. If this applies to you, please read the factsheet Applying for limited registration for the first time.

According to the GMC, the "new medical schools in the UK" are as follows:

Brighton Sussex Medical School
Hull York Medical School
Peninsula Medical School
University of East Anglia Medical School

Source: http://www.gmc-uk.org/med_ed/ume.htm

Stephen Ewen adds:

A comprehensive list of UK medical schools proper may be viewed at the WHO world listing, or at the Council of Heads of Medical Schools and Deans of UK Faculties of Medicine site, at http://www.chms.ac.uk/schlweb.html

What students of these four foreign-chartered schools operating within agreements with UK institutions may be offered is Limited Registration. For info on GMC Limited Registration go to http://www.gmc-uk.org/register/lr_map.htm

While I personally remain excited about the potential of foreign-chartered schools operating within UK, it must be repeatedly stressed that they ARE NOT UK medical schools, with "UK medical schools" defined traditionally as a medical school chartered within the UK, whose graduates are offered UNLIMITED GMC registration upon graduation.

Now for some opinion:

While one may envision strategies the school handlers may take whereby their schools may become UK schools proper, it will at best take many years before that could even be proposed by them.
 

futrfysician

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Originally posted by Kev (UK)
That statement is completely inaccurate. I have secured a place in a UK medical school and I am 37.

Look that is a piece of information I got first hand. Don't shoot the messenger. The guy is 31 and was told by several schools, from what he told me directly, that because of his age he would receive little consideration. I have personally seen his scores and fromthe correlates I gathered he is competitive in the UK.

Neither of us knows the complete story here and I am not want to take up a speculative debate, so let's just call this one an individual case perhaps.

Cheers.:)
 

bts4202

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To be awarded limited licensure in the UK:

1. Primary medical qualifications

Applicants for limited registration must hold a primary medical qualification accepted for the purpose of limited registration. There are currently some 1,600 overseas primary medical qualifications accepted by the GMC for limited registration. They include all the primary medical qualifications awarded by universities listed in the World Directory of Medical Schools published by the World Health Organisation (WHO) and a number of others which are not listed in that Directory.

http://www.gmc-uk.org/register/lr_initial.htm#1.%20Primary%20medical%20qualifications

There are many other requirements, but this the rules regarding what school you attend.
 

FionaS

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Can anyone answer my question I placed earlier? If you are a graduate of these private American-funded medical organisations in the UK, can you actually register with the GMC to practice medicine in the UK?

Kev - In a nutshell, no! They are treated as foreign grads so they may get partial GMC reg, but they'll have to keep on jumping through hoops...

They do sound dodgy, not least because no one in the UK has ever heard of these schools (presumbaly because they aren't targetted at us). If you want to practice in the UK, these schools are not the way to go! Otherwise, I know nothing about them, so can't really comment on them.

Fiona
 

Kev (UK)

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Hi Fiona,

Like many here in the UK I had never heard of these private colleges and was suprised to hear that their students undertook clinicals in NHS hospitals. But as you say, these colleges are not aimed at UK residents.

I am a med student at Leicester University so was just curious when I read about their existence here in the UK. But I think someone else correctly pointed out that these colleges are not UK medical schools, they just happen to be physically situated in this country. The graduates are not therefore UK medical graduates but FMG's as they are called in the US I think?
 

Friendly

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Originally posted by Kev (UK)
Hi Fiona,

Like many here in the UK I had never heard of these private colleges and was suprised to hear that their students undertook clinicals in NHS hospitals. But as you say, these colleges are not aimed at UK residents.

I am a med student at Leicester University so was just curious when I read about their existence here in the UK. But I think someone else correctly pointed out that these colleges are not UK medical schools, they just happen to be physically situated in this country. The graduates are not therefore UK medical graduates but FMG's as they are called in the US I think?

Kev,

Leicester is a good school. Please steer everyone well away from the Medical College of London (aka London Medical College). It is a well-dodgy programme and, yet, the Dean insists that they have mostly British students.....since you only need an average of a C+ to get in, I think that tells you how bad they are and that this 'pseudo-school' only wants to make money. They are a mickey mouse programme and should be avoided at all costs.

Also, please tell everyone to avoid St. Christopher University Medical School in Luton; another American MD-style school. They're just as bad and are chartered to some African country or Caribbean island. Pass the word so that hopeful doctors won't be duped by their smooth talk and sinister motives of money grabbing.

If you're tempted to go to either of these schools, please don't do it.

All the best in clinicals!
 

Stephen Ewen

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We have to be more careful about these harsh of words, I think, even in the event that all you say is true. There are other things to consider.

Namely, there are students in these schools who are right now giving their all toward becoming the best physicians they can possibly become within one of the available though less than ideal opportunites to become such that were available to them.

In my view, they deserve cheering and encouragement as they seek to beat any odds stacked against them toward their goal.

Yes, critically assess all things, including all med schools. But we ought not neglect these very real and human faces within the equation.
 

bts4202

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Hey Friendly,

I just wanted to tell you that st christophers students rotate with doctors in GP clinics and at Ealing hospital NHS trust during our 4th and 5th semesters (not clinicals) and we are constantly told how much better and more motivated we are than any UK students that rotate. I sat with a GKT student during a GP session answering questions and the GKT students knew nothing. By the end, the doc was just skipping over her and asking us all the questions. Get your facts straight before you start claiming that a school is BS. I don't think London medical college is very good, but they are extremely new, maybe they will get better. However, I know that st chris is good, and I now know that you are ignorant.
 

Friendly

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Originally posted by bts4202
Hey Friendly,

I just wanted to tell you that st christophers students rotate with doctors in GP clinics and at Ealing hospital NHS trust during our 4th and 5th semesters (not clinicals) and we are constantly told how much better and more motivated we are than any UK students that rotate. I sat with a GKT student during a GP session answering questions and the GKT students knew nothing. By the end, the doc was just skipping over her and asking us all the questions. Get your facts straight before you start claiming that a school is BS. I don't think London medical college is very good, but they are extremely new, maybe they will get better. However, I know that st chris is good, and I now know that you are ignorant.


I never said this school was "BS", bts4202.....make sure your anger at having to attend this medical school as a last resort doesn't cloud your ability to read what is written. There is some truth in what you say, but I think that you and I both know that St. Christopher School of Medicine is not the place to train if you wish to become a physician in the United Kingdom?.they do not provide a degree that Britain recognizes. The fact that this school ?mooches? from the reputation of GKT medical school ("we do our rotations with GTK students") says a lot about the program.

Stephen Ewen, you are correct and I commend your note most warmly! However, my comments are directed at those individuals in Britain who are thinking that this degree will allow them to work as physicians there. Also, while it may be possible to learn something about medicine and pass the USMLE after attending this school, the simple fact is that anyone could learn this stuff from textbooks and still pass....thousands do every year and for some of them, their native language has a different alphabet from English.

My point is that St. Christopher is not a magical school that will transform you into an amazing physician so please don?t kid yourself. It is a school that is struggling in reputation and quality but, it seems to provide you with the absolute minimum to have a shot at the USMLE if you wish to work in the United States. For highly motivated but under-achieving students, it does provide a second chance (albeit an expensive one) and as you say, those people tend to be very motivated. Please, please, just make sure that you go into this with your eyes open.

Also, please ask yourself why a medical school that exists in some little Caribbean island is offering a satellite campus in Britain. The simple answer is that they WANT TO MAKE MONEY. To them, that comes first and your training comes second, but to you, the training comes first. Please bear this in mind.
 

bts4202

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I think that you and I both know that St. Christopher School of Medicine is not the place to train if you wish to become a physician in the United Kingdom?.they do not provide a degree that Britain recognizes.

Huh? The school is not and has never been geared towards british people. However, our students are eligible to sit for the PLAB and MRCP exams as well as get a limited license in the UK. Same as any other country's grads. Our schools is from senegal, so it is a no brainer to know that we are considered foriegn students no matter where the campus is located.

The fact that this school ?mooches? from the reputation of GKT medical school ("we do our rotations with GTK students") says a lot about the program.

You might need to re-read what I wrote because I wasn't bragging that we rotate with GKT students, I was saying that when we do rotate with them it is obvious that WE KNOW MORE MEDICINE. I want you to think about that, then reconsider your comments:

My point is that St. Christopher is not a magical school that will transform you into an amazing physician so please don?t kid yourself. It is a school that is struggling in reputation and quality but, it seems to provide you with the absolute minimum to have a shot at the USMLE if you wish to work in the United States. For highly motivated but under-achieving students,

If our students are being directly compared to GKT and Imperial students at GP offices and Ealing Hospital respectively, and we are proving to be much more knowledgable, then what does that say about 2 of the oldest and most respected medical schools in all of the UK? In my opinion and the opinion of virtually all the british doctors we encounter, that says that St. Christopher's is a pretty damn good school. It must really burn you up to know that a "last resort" medical school could produce more knowledgable basic science students than well established british schools.

Also, please ask yourself why a medical school that exists in some little Caribbean island is offering a satellite campus in Britain. The simple answer is that they WANT TO MAKE MONEY. To them, that comes first and your training comes second, but to you, the training comes first

You are absolutely right, money does come first. But it also comes first in US and UK schools as well. We have all had proffessors that were so busy with research trying to get grants for the school that they could have cared less about teaching. Proffs that have tenure and can't be fired so they are jerks to students and could care less what you learn and don't learn. However, at st chris, the school has a vested intrest in how well you do. The school is new. How do you think it would look if the school started pumping out incompetent docs? The reputation of st chris would be even worse than it is now and NO ONE would come here. Right now, the reputation of st chris is based on rumour and sales motivated dribble. People bash it for its location and its charter but no one has come out with any stories of incompetent residents or clincal students. No one has said "hey, every SC student I meet doesn't know anything!!" In fact, most people say that the SC students they rotate with are very bright and know their stuff. If your main argument is that you don't think that the education of SC could possible be very good, then I say that you have never met one in person let alone worked with one.
 

Friendly

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Originally posted by bts4202
Huh? The school is not and has never been geared towards british people. However, our students are eligible to sit for the PLAB and MRCP exams as well as get a limited license in the UK. Same as any other country's grads. Our schools is from senegal, so it is a no brainer to know that we are considered foriegn students no matter where the campus is located.



You might need to re-read what I wrote because I wasn't bragging that we rotate with GKT students, I was saying that when we do rotate with them it is obvious that WE KNOW MORE MEDICINE. I want you to think about that, then reconsider your comments:



If our students are being directly compared to GKT and Imperial students at GP offices and Ealing Hospital respectively, and we are proving to be much more knowledgable, then what does that say about 2 of the oldest and most respected medical schools in all of the UK? In my opinion and the opinion of virtually all the british doctors we encounter, that says that St. Christopher's is a pretty damn good school. It must really burn you up to know that a "last resort" medical school could produce more knowledgable basic science students than well established british schools.



You are absolutely right, money does come first. But it also comes first in US and UK schools as well. We have all had proffessors that were so busy with research trying to get grants for the school that they could have cared less about teaching. Proffs that have tenure and can't be fired so they are jerks to students and could care less what you learn and don't learn. However, at st chris, the school has a vested intrest in how well you do. The school is new. How do you think it would look if the school started pumping out incompetent docs? The reputation of st chris would be even worse than it is now and NO ONE would come here. Right now, the reputation of st chris is based on rumour and sales motivated dribble. People bash it for its location and its charter but no one has come out with any stories of incompetent residents or clincal students. No one has said "hey, every SC student I meet doesn't know anything!!" In fact, most people say that the SC students they rotate with are very bright and know their stuff. If your main argument is that you don't think that the education of SC could possible be very good, then I say that you have never met one in person let alone worked with one.

Bts4202:

I did not intend to annoy you and trigger a slanderous streak in you. Again, my point was to warn people that these American-style medical schools in the U.K. are NOT intended for British citizens. Many have been asking questions about it and I wanted to make them aware of the pitfalls. For example, the Medical College of London specifically state that most of their students are British and that none of the current enrolled students plan on taking the USMLE. This is troublesome if the degree has only limited licensure.

There is no need to explain why you think your school's students are better than some of the older elite medical schools in the U.K. This is not relevant to this board, it's petty and, quite frankly, nobody cares so neither should you. Since the majority of the students in these traditional British schools enter medicine from high school, they're very, very bright but perhaps not as motivated as someone who's had to prove themselves over a number of years (like yourself). I believe that intelligence it not equal to effort. What one lacks in God-given ability, one can sometimes compensate for in effort and I don't think that's a bad thing. I admire that and, in fact, I'm this way too. I feel that this is merely what you see when you observe the GKT students and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of either institution.

Secondly, please do not misinform readers of this board. U.K. medical schools charge a very nominal fee for British students so money is not an issue in whether they'll be recruited; only their high school grades (or college degree classification for the fewer graduates) can do that and nothing else will.

Thirdly, please be careful when you're spelling the word professor if you expect your comments to be taken seriously in this forum. It?s none of my business but, from your comments and drive, I've no doubt you'll make an excellent physician. The very best of luck to you!
 

FionaS

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Like many here in the UK I had never heard of these private colleges and was suprised to hear that their students undertook clinicals in NHS hospitals. But as you say, these colleges are not aimed at UK residents.

I know - it's quite a surprise the number of 'other' med schools in the UK - mainly based in London (where do they find enough patients?!)

I am a med student at Leicester University so was just curious when I read about their existence here in the UK. But I think someone else correctly pointed out that these colleges are not UK medical schools, they just happen to be physically situated in this country. The graduates are not therefore UK medical graduates but FMG's as they are called in the US I think?

I think it is FMGs - or it could be IMGs? I'd need an American to explain. I'm a 3rd year at Birmingham University, so only the next city over from you!
 
E

ebaydove

The latest term in referring to students graduating from medical schools/ universities outside the USA, is IMG...
It used to be FMG, but it is now considered politically correct to refer to such students, as IMG...
i think the word "FOREIGN" seems to portray an image of xenophobia...and hence the edition to IMG...
 

Winged Scapula

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Originally posted by ebaydove
The latest term in referring to students graduating from medical schools/ universities outside the USA, is IMG...
It used to be FMG, but it is now considered politically correct to refer to such students, as IMG...
i think the word "FOREIGN" seems to portray an image of xenophobia...and hence the edition to IMG...

While the above certainly sounds plausible, I was under the impression that the current usage of the term "IMG" refers to American citizens trained abroad and "FMG" refers to non-American citizens trained abroad (usually in their home country). Obviously this terminology is specifically referenced to the US, but I suppose it can be translated to other countries.
 
E

ebaydove

ok, here goes....

IMG is the same as FMG, but politically sanitized... these are true foreign born foreigners who enter the usa after medical school..

USIMG is the same as USFMG.... describes us citizens who go out of the USA, to pursue medicine, and return for residency...

That should clarify these two groups..
 

futrfysician

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Originally posted by Friendly
Kev,

Also, please tell everyone to avoid St. Christopher University Medical School in Luton; another American MD-style school. They're just as bad and are chartered to some African country or Caribbean island. Pass the word so that hopeful doctors won't be duped by their smooth talk and sinister motives of money grabbing.

If you're tempted to go to either of these schools, please don't do it.

All the best in clinicals!

Hey Unfriendly. Since you've been to this school, tell me more about it since I happen to be here. Tell me about what turned you off to the quality of our professors? Tell me what about our facility made you make such a dishonest and untruthful statement? You are a fraud and a liar. I'd put the education I am getting up against your snooty little arse anytime. Your libelous comments are also laughable since they are vague.

"Don't go there since they are chartered in Senegal"

[sarcasm]Hey genius, I had a company in Florida that was chartered in Delaware. I wasn't forced to WORK IN DEL!!!!!! Your idiocy knows no bounds. I suggest you get on a plane and see what is actually going on instead of talking based on hearsay and innuendo. [/sarcasm]

Your comments are both vague and misleading and highly innaccurate to the facts surrounding the mission of the school, its administration, and students. Not to leave out the faculty, which also happen to be excellent.

The following came to me from a friend who is a Gen Surg Resident at a Virginia University:

"hey Joe,
Congrats on going to St. Christophers. I rotated at Inova Fairfax Hospital with a few St. Chris students in my first year of residency and I gotta tell you, they all were impressive. They were far more knowledgeable, at least on this rotation, than anyone would have given them credit for and made some of the Georgetown students look bad. (Not that I cared since I was a Xxxxxxx University person anyway) They had nothing but good things to say about the school as well. I think you'll do well there. Make sure you come do your surgery rotation with me! I can't wait to see you"

Frankly, if you want to be a British grad, then that's fine. But don't pull crap out of your butt and claim its the gospel truth. You don't know squat about the school. So just admit you are basing everything you know about the school on hearsay and what others told you on some anonymous web board. If you don't believe me, PM me and I'll give you my phone number and we can discuss you impending visit to the truth.
 

Friendly

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Originally posted by futrfysician
Saint Christopher's receives UN and WHO funding for the massive amount of healthcare development it does in that country and now 3 others. It has medical schools in that country and is starting a few others according to information given to us by the admin. I have now matriculated and spoke at length with Dr. Leone the President of the school who is more upfront than most of you are about who you are and what you do. Alan Bain is the managing Director and I trust him far more than I trust you because he means business about making SC a great institution.

SC as an entity in England has one Brit in my class, because he is categorically too old for the UK schools. If you hit 30, your app is trashed here. I would assume that the case in MCL might be akin to that BUT I am only speculating and so are you. I am the only one willing to admit that it seems.

No students HERE are Sengalese. I once ran music studio in Florida, but my corporate charter was in Delaware. Could I not operate in Florida since I was not initally incorporated there? was I supposed to work only for Delaware companies since I was a Delaware corp? I don't think you get it. I also don't care.

The school is fine. I like it here. You might not. I would highly discourage you from ever coming to England. You don't seem like the kind of person they want at SC.

This is not Harvard. Neither is the school you go to. Have a nice day.

You state your opinion with great empahasis, but I was just reading a previous post of yours (above), and I find it interesting that the consistent arrogance and immaturity in your writing is just as obvious. Please appreciate that when you post in the way that you do and insult people, the credibility you might have and, moreover, the credibility your specific comments have are all but diminished.

Please know assuredly that your facts about British medical schools are also not always correct. Many of them are now admitting students who have passed the 30-year-old boundary....that was an old rule that few schools currently adhere too. Good luck in your studies and I hope you take see the sense in what I'm writing.
 

futrfysician

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LOL...obviously your comprehension is dimished by the fact that you are the one attacking here. I am only a defender. Your statements mention no facts about a school YOU have never seen. A school whose administration you have never met. Who is the immature one here?

Honestly, you failed again to recall that that was a word from a British student here. Not mine. If you ahve a beef with his interpretation of the events, then pleae...call em and I'll let you address it with him. I said on another post...I was only the messenger.

Child....
 
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