Looking at Australia for med school, not optimistic about future of USA

[cbrons]

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I firmly believe the United States is headed for an economic depression that is many ways worse than anything we've ever experienced in our ~233 year existence. I don't want to delve too deeply into the political and economic discussions surrounding our issues but I have been worried about our fiscal immorality for quite some time now.

I have, in the past few weeks, been looking at an international option for medical school. I know if the US economy collapses like I'm almost certain it will that nations connected to the value of the dollar or basically anything thats tied into Americans paying back debt will be negatively affected as well. As such, I know that Australia will be negatively impacted by our collapse but the standard of living will still be bearable.

I've done some research into this option and had a few questions - mainly concerning financing.

1. What are the prospects of international students getting a government-backed (or partially backed) loan for their medical education?
2. If an international student were to promise to stay after graduation, would this increase their chances on being admitted (or perhaps being offered some subsidy or scholarship)
3. Are there any rural-practice programs that allow international students to apply?

 

[redshifteffect]

Here has been my experience thus far:

1. Currently internationals have had very few problems in staying. There are quite a few internship jobs available right now, and many in the large cities such that international students haven't had trouble securing something, somewhere.

2. In the future there might be issues with internship jobs as in the next 4 years, the government has unfortunately doubled the medical student numbers. It will thus be a lot more competitive to get internship jobs not only for internationals but also for local students. The only glimmer of hope I can offer is that the various state governments have been increasing the number of spots, but it's unlikely that it will be as easy as it is currently to secure jobs.

3. Rural areas in particular are happy to give international students who have had experience in those particular areas jobs, because for them the number one priority is not having an intern leave in the middle of the year. I've had first round offers in some areas, where even local classmates never got second or third round offers, simply because I had experience there.

4. Internship is not a training program. It's only a basic requirement to be fully registered. I won't go into the complexities of the Australian training system - you can search the various threads. Suffice to say that you should be a PR by the time you are done your internship so you will be on equal footing for all future training program jobs you apply for. Your only hassle will be the 10 year moratorium. If you do a search it has been covered in detail.

5. The Australian system is pretty fair. Even if you don't have a PR but you are deemed a good candidate, you will get a job. I say this not from optimism, or loyalty but only from 100% experience.

 

[cbrons]

Here has been my experience thus far:

1. Currently internationals have had very few problems in staying. There are quite a few internship jobs available right now, and many in the large cities such that international students haven't had trouble securing something, somewhere.

2. In the future there might be issues with internship jobs as in the next 4 years, the government has unfortunately doubled the medical student numbers. It will thus be a lot more competitive to get internship jobs not only for internationals but also for local students. The only glimmer of hope I can offer is that the various state governments have been increasing the number of spots, but it's unlikely that it will be as easy as it is currently to secure jobs.

3. Rural areas in particular are happy to give international students who have had experience in those particular areas jobs, because for them the number one priority is not having an intern leave in the middle of the year. I've had first round offers in some areas, where even local classmates never got second or third round offers, simply because I had experience there.

4. Internship is not a training program. It's only a basic requirement to be fully registered. I won't go into the complexities of the Australian training system - you can search the various threads. Suffice to say that you should be a PR by the time you are done your internship so you will be on equal footing for all future training program jobs you apply for. Your only hassle will be the 10 year moratorium. If you do a search it has been covered in detail.

5. The Australian system is pretty fair. Even if you don't have a PR but you are deemed a good candidate, you will get a job. I say this not from optimism, or loyalty but only from 100% experience.

thank you for your quick reply... I have a few more questions if you don't mind
1. Roughly, what is the loan process to finance medical education like out there? Student loans here in the US are very tight these days, I can't imagine how much harder our international students have it.
2. Do you foresee any changes in policies affecting international students (re: 10 year moratorium)

 

[redshifteffect]

1. If you are thinking of using an Australian bank to finance your loans, that might be difficult, since you are (presumably) not an Australian PR or Citizen. I highly doubt they will fork over the amounts you will need for someone on a student visa. However I could be wrong.

You could try the following banks, and see what you can dig up:
ANZ
Westpac
Commonwealth
NAB
St. George

Those are the biggest banks in the country and maybe a good place to start.

2. In regards to the 10 year moratorium, when I contacted the Department of Health and Ageing earlier this year, I was told a "deal" was being put into place with the Labor government to reduce the moratorium to 5 years for international students trained in Australia. I have heard nothing since, so I'm not sure. My suggestion would be for you to contact them yourself as they are very forthcoming on what this will mean for international students and what possible legislative changes they have in the pipelines.

 

[cbrons]

1. If you are thinking of using an Australian bank to finance your loans, that might be difficult, since you are (presumably) not an Australian PR or Citizen. I highly doubt they will fork over the amounts you will need for someone on a student visa. However I could be wrong.

You could try the following banks, and see what you can dig up:
ANZ
Westpac
Commonwealth
NAB
St. George

Those are the biggest banks in the country and maybe a good place to start.

2. In regards to the 10 year moratorium, when I contacted the Department of Health and Ageing earlier this year, I was told a "deal" was being put into place with the Labor government to reduce the moratorium to 5 years for international students trained in Australia. I have heard nothing since, so I'm not sure. My suggestion would be for you to contact them yourself as they are very forthcoming on what this will mean for international students and what possible legislative changes they have in the pipelines.

Okay, thank you... do you know of many international students from the US?

 

[redshifteffect]

I personally know a few. Most of the ones I know now are Australian PRs so they will probably be in a different situation then you would be.

 

[neulite]

Florida resident here, attending UQ in January for MBBS/PhD. I received the usual Stafford sub/unsub loans from the gov but obviously this doesn't cover the entire cost. I applied for a goverment grad PLUS loan which is credit based. This supplemented my existing loans and covered the remaining costs.

 

[cbrons]

Florida resident here, attending UQ in January for MBBS/PhD. I received the usual Stafford sub/unsub loans from the gov but obviously this doesn't cover the entire cost. I applied for a goverment grad PLUS loan which is credit based. This supplemented my existing loans and covered the remaining costs.

how good was your credit? Sucks... I've had a credit card for a year and that's about all.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Australians can be as fiscally irresponsible as Americans, and if the US economy were to completely collapse, which it won't, Australia would die a horrible death.

 

[shan564]

I'm starting the med program at USyd in February. I'll be getting the standard Stafford loans from the US government; your credit shouldn't have any impact on that. The interest rates might be a bit higher than they were a couple of years ago, but I doubt that medical students will ever have trouble getting loans. Everybody knows that you'll eventually have the income to pay them back comfortably.

 

[neulite]

The OP was referring to the grad PLUS loans I am using for school, which are credit based. How on earth do the stafford loans cover the tuition costs...especially at USyd?

 

[shan564]

Oh yeah, you're right, I forgot about that. The PLUS loans are credit-based? The admissions people at USyd told me that "the current economic situation will not affect" my loans.

 

[neulite]

Oh yeah, you're right, I forgot about that. The PLUS loans are credit-based? The admissions people at USyd told me that "the current economic situation will not affect" my loans.

Yes. PLUS loans are based on your credit rating. However, I'm not sure what you mean by "current economic situation". Yes, the current US economy is **** but you should still be able to apply for a credit-based loan. You may want to do this soon and work out a preferred lender with USyd. UQ uses ASA direct.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

Actually PLUS loans do not involve a full credit check, they basically just make sure you do not have anything serious on your credit file like a bankruptcy, delinquent payment, etc. Stafford and Gradplus loans will not be as affected as the private loans. Many private lenders folded up way before this Wall Street and banking debacle, actually last year Teri and Student Loan Xpress stopped providing loans to medical students going overseas, this was well before the current problems. Since all Australian schools qualify for Stafford and Gradplus, you should not have any problems finding funding.

 

[dylantanis]

if a US student decides to go to Australia for their medical education...is it assumed he/she is planning on staying and becoming a PR?

or are there students going there to return back to the states for their clinical rotations? are there any schools that offer clinical sites back
in the states like the caribbean schools do?

 

[redshifteffect]

I think the assumption is that most Canadians/Americans will return home. That's been the trend in the past. It's only really been in the last few years that a lot of the students are staying on.

As for clinical rotations in the US, you may want to look up the thread on UQ and their controversial Oschner program.