Looking at tuition prices...wondering how I will ever get out of debt : |

229141

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So...I will have 0 debt entering med school next year since I went to school in state. Say med school costs 40,000 a year just for tuition. Tag on another 15,000 for room and board, 5000 for other expenses..and at a minimum I'll be spending 60,000 a year..probably more. That equates to 240,000 debt upon graduating.

Taking account of the fact that interns and residents make piss poor salaries....I figure I won't be making 6 figure until I'm 30 and done with residency.

Why do people always assume docs easily pay off 400k + in debt quickly when they don't make money until their 30? Am I missing something here!?
 

funkydrmonkey

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Go search through MSAR for the cheap schools and only apply to those ;)
 
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229141

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You wont.
Meanwhile my engineer friend is 28 and has been making 110,000 a year since he was 23...starting with 0 debt. But the kid doesn't even know what a mitochondria is so who's laughing now!! (.....ugh.....)
 

potato head

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i suppose texas residents in texas schools have it relatively easy. i think tuition ranges from 8-9K per year.
 

jopo

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Meanwhile my engineer friend is 28 and has been making 110,000 a year since he was 23...starting with 0 debt. But the kid doesn't even know what a mitochondria is so who's laughing now!! (.....ugh.....)
One of my friends from HS completed a ChemE degree in three years and is making 68,000 this year; he is only 22!

O well, we all have to pursue our own intrests and if that mean a little debt so be it.

Also, do not forget about the intrest over residency.:D
 

Forthegood

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You can defer loans for a while if you play your cards right. Oh wait, the economy is f***ed and it is going to be lucky if we get loans in the first place...

Hopefully Obama's changes go well...
 

DeadCactus

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The day medical students can't get loans for school is the day you'd be better of buying some firearms over textbooks...
 

Forthegood

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Don't be ignorant. Until they passed the expansion bill with the Fed increases, the fractional banking had dried up (hense the past 3 months of news). For those of us who already have ours taken out, your right, no worries! For you, this means they are not making new loans to med students or law students or grad students in general. But yes, they alleviated the problem for a while... as our economy continues to circle the drain...

It seems impossible. But its not. Almost impossible and impossible are very different beasts when your education is in the balance.
 

socmob

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You just have the debt till you're done w/ residency. That simple. I guess this bothers some people...but it's never really bothered me. *shrug* It's just how things are. Assuming you get the interest deferred during residency, as many people do, is there something I'm missing about the horrors of having a lot of school debt hanging around for a few years?
 

flip26

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You just have the debt till you're done w/ residency. That simple. I guess this bothers some people...but it's never really bothered me. *shrug* It's just how things are. Assuming you get the interest deferred during residency, as many people do, is there something I'm missing about the horrors of having a lot of school debt hanging around for a few years?
Umm, yeah, the horror is "the paying it all back part"...taking out the loans is easy...paying off the debt is the horror.
 

Narmerguy

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Doesn't Baylor offer scholarships as well? On top of their already cheap tuition...that's pretty good. I wonder if their scholarship money covers cost of living as well...
 
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Kaustikos

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Umm, yeah, the horror is "the paying it all back part"...taking out the loans is easy...paying off the debt is the horror.
Unless you find clinics/hospitals that will pay off all your loans/debts if you sign a contract for x amount of years. It's true. Rare, but true.
 

njbmd

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So...I will have 0 debt entering med school next year since I went to school in state. Say med school costs 40,000 a year just for tuition. Tag on another 15,000 for room and board, 5000 for other expenses..and at a minimum I'll be spending 60,000 a year..probably more. That equates to 240,000 debt upon graduating.

Taking account of the fact that interns and residents make piss poor salaries....I figure I won't be making 6 figure until I'm 30 and done with residency.

Why do people always assume docs easily pay off 400k + in debt quickly when they don't make money until their 30? Am I missing something here!?
Yes, medical school can be an expensive proposition for many people, even those with no debt entering. I, too, had no debt entering medical school and was able to obtain a full-ride scholarship upon entry based on my prior grades and MCAT scores. While this was great, it's not going to happen to everyone. Thus, debt-load should be a consideration in terms of where you attend school.

The other thing to think about is that you have to be in an environment where you can excel in your medical studies. Getting into medical school is a battle but you have to be able to perform well in medical school or your choices for post-graduate training will be limited. Add this to having a high debt load and you can find yourself in a situation where you might not want to be. That is, paying off a huge amount of money on a salary over which you have little control based on your specialty selection. Not everyone who attends medical school is going to be even remotely competitive for a high-paying specialty.

In today's world, reimbursements to physicians are being eroded by political actions. There is also the case where you may find yourself working as a salaried individual meaning that you may not be in that six-figure salary by the time you are done with residency. Many physicians will be employees of institutions and not on a pay-per-procedure basis. This can greatly decrease what you will actually take home and apply to those six-figure loans that you have taken out.

In today's world, medicine is a gamble for those just entering. Things are changing on a yearly basis in terms of how you will actually be compensated. You need only look at the folks who trained in the 1980's and 1990's who thought that they would be making huge salaries and able to perform in the same manner as those that preceded them. Enter managed care in the form of HMOs, PPO, etc and the amount of money to be made in medicine changed. Those of us who trained with managed care are not in as much "sticker-shock" as the guys who preceded us. Those who follow us are in for a huge change in addition to the fact that you will carry far more debt than those who went before you and may be dealing with an entirely different system of reimbursement.

Finally, cost definitely needs to be part of your considerations but you also need to be educated on how you are going to be managing your debt and your educational needs. The folks who have wealthy parents or personal wealth will have a definite advantage over those who are attempting to borrow money to pay for their entire educational experience (including residency because that small compensation is not salary per se). Residency is still education and the best that you can hope for is to keep up with the interest on your huge loans or that you enter some kind of practice situation that will help reduce your debt load.

Yes, tuition has to be a consideration based more on your ability to pay on the other side of your educational process. The more money you save and have, the better shape you will find yourself in. If you are paying a huge tuition bill 20 years from now, are you really going to care much about the medical school (only 4 years) that you attended? Am I predicting doom and gloom? No, I am just saying be aware and be prepared for something (debt-load) that many students only give cursory thought to in the application process.
 

Forthegood

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Ignorance is bliss.

Also, I don't see the point in worrying over something i can't change. Then again, I don't worry about anything really.
 

Karen12345

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Meanwhile my engineer friend is 28 and has been making 110,000 a year since he was 23...starting with 0 debt. But the kid doesn't even know what a mitochondria is so who's laughing now!! (.....ugh.....)
An engineer doesn't need to know about mitochondria. Most premeds can't do basic integration because they stop learning math at pre-calculus. Is somebody supposed to be laughing at that?

Real engineering degree is difficult to earn. The amount of work is massive and success requires a lot of innate talent. Most pre-meds I know can memorize lots of stuff, but they fear math and physics (the MCAT physics doesn't really count here), which are the foundation of engineering. Most premeds/med students don't have what it takes to succeed in engineering. It's easy to think that if you can do medicine, you can do anything. Not true. Nothing wrong with talented engineers making good money.
 

htownpremie

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An engineer doesn't need to know about mitochondria. Most premeds can't do basic integration because they stop learning math at pre-calculus. Is somebody supposed to be laughing at that?

Real engineering degree is difficult to earn. The amount of work is massive and success requires a lot of innate talent. Most pre-meds I know can memorize lots of stuff, but they fear math and physics (the MCAT physics doesn't really count here), which are the foundation of engineering. Most premeds/med students don't have what it takes to succeed in engineering. It's easy to think that if you can do medicine, you can do anything. Not true. Nothing wrong with talented engineers making good money.
engineer salaries also cap out relatively quickly. 3/4 of my parents are engineers. can build crap and solve problems, but don't have common sense to save their lives haha.

i thought most programs required calculus nowadays?
 

bodonid

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Answer: StateU.

You're more likely to be in the top quartile, too.
 

bodonid

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i'm a chunky monkey from funkytown
 

229141

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An engineer doesn't need to know about mitochondria. Most premeds can't do basic integration because they stop learning math at pre-calculus. Is somebody supposed to be laughing at that?

Such strong sarcasm lol
 

229141

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An engineer doesn't need to know about mitochondria. Most premeds can't do basic integration because they stop learning math at pre-calculus. Is somebody supposed to be laughing at that?

Real engineering degree is difficult to earn. The amount of work is massive and success requires a lot of innate talent. Most pre-meds I know can memorize lots of stuff, but they fear math and physics (the MCAT physics doesn't really count here), which are the foundation of engineering. Most premeds/med students don't have what it takes to succeed in engineering. It's easy to think that if you can do medicine, you can do anything. Not true. Nothing wrong with talented engineers making good money.

I challenge you to an integration contest...I fear no Engin! hahahaha
 

bodonid

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This is the reason that the money factor should be at least thought about. Sure, you should love what you do, but you have to get real. If im 400K in debt, my job better allow me to pay that off in a reasonable amount of time and still live a decent life. If it doesn't something isn't right and no matter how much I may love my job, not having enough $$ is going to cause problems with the home life.
 

229141

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This is the reason that the money factor should be at least thought about. Sure, you should love what you do, but you have to get real. If im 400K in debt, my job better allow me to pay that off in a reasonable amount of time and still live a decent life. If it doesn't something isn't right and no matter how much I may love my job, not having enough $$ is going to cause problems with the home life.
Thank you so much..

Does anyone remember that hilarious thread titled "WOW Residents make A LOT of money!" where the kid was saying residents are rich because they make like 22k a year LOL!
 

cbrons

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That's why you have to live a frugal life and when you start getting those paychecks when its all over, start paying it off. Being in debt is something that should make everyone so uncomfortable that they try and get out as quick as they can. Read the book, "The Richest Man in Babylon." Compound interest working against you sucks. If you are halfway smart, you'll be able to dig yourself out of the hole you will have to inevitably create... just don't be the average American ******* who gets himself into even deeper debt to finance his outstanding debt.
 
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