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1sttimehopeful

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My main concern with my application is my lack of non-clinical volunteering and if other volunteering/shadowing hours are too low.

Planning on applying to mostly research-heavy schools with a research-heavy PS. Wondering if I should focus on getting more hours before applying this June! If so, what should be top priority?

Please let me know of any other things you think are missing!

*note on research: it's all clinical (non-basic science) research, and the research I want to do in the future is also clinical (eg clinical trials, policy research etc), so I am not interested in MD/PhD. Goal though is to do academic medicine.

Thanks again!

Demographics:
  • White female
  • Brain Sciences and Neurobiology (dual degree) major with honors
  • Currently working in clinical research at Ivy League medical school
  • Pell Grant recipient throughout undergrad
  • Graduated from flagship state school
Stats
  • cGPA/sGPA: 3.94, 3.93
  • MCAT 521
Research (at time of application)
  • 3500 Hours total (including full time work)
  • 1 first author publication in journal with IF=4, 1 2nd author publication in low-tier journal (IF <2)
  • 1 first author publication submitted to journal with IF >=4 (under review)
  • Received two funded grants during undergrad (total funding ~5k): 1 national, 1 university based
  • 16 abstracts (4 local, 12 national) - received 3 awards for best abstract at 3 of these conferences
  • worked in 2 labs in undergrad, and current lab (have good relationships with all 3 PIs who will all write for me)
Awards
  • University awards - 5: 2 from department (service, top student in major) ; 3 from university (research productivity, service, representing university values)
  • Abstract awards: 3: 2 national conferences, 1 local conference
  • No national awards (no goldwater, etc)
Clinical Experience - Volunteering (100 total):
  • 60 in two different EDs (one in undergrad, one outside of work now)
  • 40 in clinic during undergrad
Clinical Experience - Employment (400 total):
  • 400 hours as a CNA
Shadowing:
  • Primary care (MDs) - 12
  • Specialties (MDs): 30
  • Primary care (PAs - not sure if this counts): 10
Other Extracurriculars/employment:
  • Teaching experience
    • Ta'ed for seminar for freshman
    • sole person who wrote curriculum for university intro class (e.g. for freshman) resulting in strong LOR and awards
  • Leadership
    • VP of club to get undergrads into research ("Increasing Research Accessibility Across the University")
    • Director of membership development committee for medical ethics advocacy group
    • VP director of finances for theatre committee
    • VP of social housing group (academic sorority living)

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My main concern with my application is my lack of non-clinical volunteering and if other volunteering/shadowing hours are too low.

Planning on applying to mostly research-heavy schools with a research-heavy PS. Wondering if I should focus on getting more hours before applying this June! If so, what should be top priority?

Please let me know of any other things you think are missing!

*note on research: it's all clinical (non-basic science) research, and the research I want to do in the future is also clinical (eg clinical trials, policy research etc), so I am not interested in MD/PhD. Goal though is to do academic medicine.

Thanks again!

Demographics:
  • White female
  • Brain Sciences and Neurobiology (dual degree) major with honors
  • Currently working in clinical research at Ivy League medical school
  • Pell Grant recipient throughout undergrad
  • Graduated from flagship state school
Stats
  • cGPA/sGPA: 3.94, 3.93
  • MCAT 521
Research (at time of application)
  • 3500 Hours total (including full time work)
  • 1 first author publication in journal with IF=4, 1 2nd author publication in low-tier journal (IF <2)
  • 1 first author publication submitted to journal with IF >=4 (under review)
  • Received two funded grants during undergrad (total funding ~5k): 1 national, 1 university based
  • 16 abstracts (4 local, 12 national) - received 3 awards for best abstract at 3 of these conferences
  • worked in 2 labs in undergrad, and current lab (have good relationships with all 3 PIs who will all write for me)
Awards
  • University awards - 5: 2 from department (service, top student in major) ; 3 from university (research productivity, service, representing university values)
  • Abstract awards: 3: 2 national conferences, 1 local conference
  • No national awards (no goldwater, etc)
Clinical Experience - Volunteering (100 total):
  • 60 in two different EDs (one in undergrad, one outside of work now)
  • 40 in clinic during undergrad
Clinical Experience - Employment (400 total):
  • 400 hours as a CNA
Shadowing:
  • Primary care (MDs) - 12
  • Specialties (MDs): 30
  • Primary care (PAs - not sure if this counts): 10
Other Extracurriculars/employment:
  • Teaching experience
    • Ta'ed for seminar for freshman
    • sole person who wrote curriculum for university intro class (e.g. for freshman) resulting in strong LOR and awards
  • Leadership
    • VP of club to get undergrads into research ("Increasing Research Accessibility Across the University")
    • Director of membership development committee for medical ethics advocacy group
    • VP director of finances for theatre committee
    • VP of social housing group (academic sorority living)
Everything looks pretty impressive, but you're right in that there is one element I'm not picking up from this description: in your activities, which non-clinical activities have given you an immersive opportunity to be "outside your comfort zone"? What are the specific stories you have from your experiences that might help us gain insight into how you deal with ambiguity, inability to make things better, or empathize with others?
 
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Everything looks pretty impressive, but you're right in that there is one element I'm not picking up from this description: in your activities, which non-clinical activities have given you an immersive opportunity to be "outside your comfort zone"? What are the specific stories you have from your experiences that might help us gain insight into how you deal with ambiguity, inability to make things better, or empathize with others?
Thank you for these comments and poignant wording of these issues that are so central to medicine.

Do you suppose that involvement in something like the humanities, philosophy, or even divinity and how these intersect with medicine could be an appropriate way to explore these realities? I've been interested in these areas for a while and wonder if involving myself (through research or just through an organization) in these spheres would be a growing experience that would be valued in my application.

Thanks again!
 
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Thank you for these comments and poignant wording of these issues that are so central to medicine.

Do you suppose that involvement in something like the humanities, philosophy, or even divinity and how these intersect with medicine could be an appropriate way to explore these realities? I've been interested in these areas for a while and wonder if involving myself (through research or just through an organization) in these spheres would be a growing experience that would be valued in my application.

Thanks again!

...whatever that means to you might be okay, but what you need is service to the unserved/underserved in your community. You have to show your altruism by helping those less fortunate than yourself. You need to get outside of your comfort zone , off campus and interact with people unlike yourself. Think about homeless shelters, soup kitchens, senior citizens centers, VA homes, coaching a team of underprivileged kids in a sport, working with disabled kids at a camp or through a rec center. Anything that will spread your wings and help you to develop skills you didn’t know you have, skills that will help you to deal with all types of people, not just people like you. Since you have specifically stated you aren’t interested in the MD/PhD route you have to do something that will help take the focus away from those thousands of hours of various research gigs. Right now your application screams Lab Rat.
 
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Nothing in your application screams “I want to help (vulnerable) people”, which, at the risk of stating the obvious, is ultimately what being a doctor is geared toward. Your clinical volunteering is pretty well below average for any school, let alone the types of schools your academic stats are competitive for. What looks to be a total lack of non-clinical service of those less fortunate than yourself is a major red flag.

Having a ton of research is nice, but it will only take you so far (in my opinion)—the question adcoms may have is why aren’t you going for an MD/PhD or a PhD? Those “research-heavy” schools still aim to produce doctors, not just researchers.

This process is such a crapshoot that I can’t say with certainty that you have a low chance of getting into a top school. I can only say that it will be very risky of you to apply with well below average non-clinical and clinical service.
 
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...whatever that means to you might be okay, but what you need is service to the unserved/underserved in your community. You have to show your altruism by helping those less fortunate than yourself. You need to get outside of your comfort zone , off campus and interact with people unlike yourself. Think about homeless shelters, soup kitchens, senior citizens centers, VA homes, coaching a team of underprivileged kids in a sport, working with disabled kids at a camp or through a rec center. Anything that will spread your wings and help you to develop skills you didn’t know you have, skills that will help you to deal with all types of people, not just people like you. Since you have specifically stated you aren’t interested in the MD/PhD route you have to do something that will help take the focus away from those thousands of hours of various research gigs. Right now your application screams Lab Rat.
Thanks so much for these thoughts, I really appreciate it!

I completely get that what I listed above would only continue to remove me from what these populations experience. I will definitely consider finding an opportunity that would more directly involve working in these spaces.

I can see how my application is research heavy; my clinical research experiences align with my goals of clinical academic medicine and have involved working with people (my current research position is running a clinical trial working with a clinical population).

I'll be sure to augment them with the other experiences you are suggesting, though.
 
Nothing in your application screams “I want to help (vulnerable) people”, which, at the risk of stating the obvious, is ultimately what being a doctor is geared toward. Your clinical volunteering is pretty well below average for any school, let alone the types of schools your academic stats are competitive for. What looks to be a total lack of non-clinical service of those less fortunate than yourself is a major red flag.

Having a ton of research is nice, but it will only take you so far (in my opinion)—the question adcoms may have is why aren’t you going for an MD/PhD or a PhD? Those “research-heavy” schools still aim to produce doctors, not just researchers.

This process is such a crapshoot that I can’t say with certainty that you have a low chance of getting into a top school. I can only say that it will be very risky of you to apply with well below average non-clinical and clinical service.
Thank you so much for explaining this! I don't know a ton about the medical school application process, and I do appreciate you emphasizing the importance of non-clinical volunteering.

If I were to start non-clinical volunteering now, do you think that would help for this cycle? Or, would you recommend me taking another gap year to increase my non-clinical (and clinical!) volunteering hours?

Thanks again!
 
Thank you for these comments and poignant wording of these issues that are so central to medicine.

Do you suppose that involvement in something like the humanities, philosophy, or even divinity and how these intersect with medicine could be an appropriate way to explore these realities? I've been interested in these areas for a while and wonder if involving myself (through research or just through an organization) in these spheres would be a growing experience that would be valued in my application.

Thanks again!

(Noting others have since followed up since you posted this.)

I don't think you need to take a class. You may already have some of those as classes anyway. What everyone's pointing out is just more demonstrated proof of patient-facing service over a long-term commitment. To your question about whether starting now would help you later, "of course" is the obvious answer. Consistency and commitment are really important, and understanding the social influences on health and wellbeing are expected of all health care providers. @candbgirl already gave you some suggestions that many prehealth applicants participate in. We just need to know you understand how other people who don't share your background or access to resources live and cope. There are generally more people not like you that you will meet than people like you.

Now, I'm not sure about the aversion to MD/PhD since many people do clinical research with both degrees who are in academic medicine (though you're right you don't have to have the dual degree). There are a few programs I know that focus on translational medicine: one for sure that is just Ph.D.-only, and your usual collection of strong research MD programs. I'm just saying that technically MD/PhD curricula are meant for clinical/translational researchers in academic medicine. Do your clinical trial investigators persuade you not to go that direction?
 
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(Noting others have since followed up since you posted this.)

I don't think you need to take a class. You may already have some of those as classes anyway. What everyone's pointing out is just more demonstrated proof of patient-facing service over a long-term commitment. To your question about whether starting now would help you later, "of course" is the obvious answer. Consistency and commitment are really important, and understanding the social influences on health and wellbeing are expected of all health care providers. @candbgirl already gave you some suggestions that many prehealth applicants participate in. We just need to know you understand how other people who don't share your background or access to resources live and cope. There are generally more people not like you that you will meet than people like you.
Thank you for these comments and for helping me understand the importance of this in preparing to become a healthcare provider! I will be sure to search out some of these opportunities in my area. Thanks again!
 
@Mr.Smile12


Such a good question. Hopefully it will bring an interesting answer.
Sorry, just now seeing this.

They are supportive of either choice.

I thought I would not be a good applicant for MDPhD programs, because I do not have any substantial basic science research experience (I have never spent much time at the bench - only to do some processing of samples).

The vast majority of my research experience has been more computational (doing advanced statistics) and survey/assessment based. In the future, I don't necessarily see myself at the bench doing drug development. I'd rather design clinical trials and carry on drug development work at the human level with what has been learned at the pre-clinical, translational/ bench level. But, if others think I might be a good applicant for MDPhD programs despite this, I'm all ears.

Happy to provide more details if that would be helpful!
 
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