Looking for NYCOM APEP feedback

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by Malvina, Feb 10, 2002.

  1. Malvina

    Malvina New Member

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    I am applying to the NYCOM APEP (Accelerated Program to Educate ?migr? Physicians in Osteopathic Medicine) and would really like to know more about other people's application/interview experiences and especially more about the two week interview and exam time in the summer.
    Would really appreciate any feedback I can get, especially about the two week summer weed-out competition - that part makes me very nervous.
    APEP seems like a fantastic program and is certainly the only one of it's kind - at least that I can find - but it's almost impossible to find any information about it on the net. (I have told the people in the NYCOM admissions office that the nycom.nyit.edu web link does not function and hasn't for at least a month now.)
    I looked for information about APEP in inerviewfeedback.com and didn't find anything directly related to APEP, although I did find lot's of good info about NYCOM interviews.

    Thanks in advance!
    malvina
     
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  3. nycom@juno.com

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    Hello, Malvina:

    I personally don't remember ever reading any substantial amount of information regarding the APEP program--the NYCOM admissions guidebook has brief information itself.

    There is a period during the summer before the first year of education that the APEP students study for particular classes: Anatomy, etc., and take a qualifying examination at the end to decide whom is eligible for entrance into the regular class.

    I don't know how many students you'll be competing with. Judging from the fact that approx. 40 APEP students are in every entering class at NYCOM, you'll probably be in a pool of 200 foreign physicians (young and old) during the summer program.

    I do know that the regular APEP students admitted to the school are excused from taking many lab sessions, i.e., Histology lab, possibly Microbiology lab, etc. The APEP students also don't traditionally complete rotations during the 4th year of Med. School--they begin applying for Residencies and Internships following their 3rd year.

    My personal feelings about the APEP program is that it's WAY TOO LARGE AND AMBITIOUS! I sometimes question the quality of the students that NYCOM accepts, and those feelings extend to the APEP program. NYCOM also seems unwilling to reduce the number of "regular" students (American students just graduating university in the United States) accepted to accommodate the APEP students in the class, leading to a very overcrowded school, too much competition, and skewed grade averages.

    In a state (New York) with an abundance of Medical Schools in the NYC and Long Island area already; and a surplus of physicians in these same areas, it's extremely impractical to continue to maintain such an absurd class size to advance the "Osteopathic profession."

    Good luck.
     
  4. pags

    pags Senior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by [email protected]:
    <strong>
    I sometimes question the quality of the students that NYCOM accepts, and those feelings extend to the APEP program. NYCOM also seems unwilling to reduce the number of "regular" students (American students just graduating university in the United States) accepted to accommodate the APEP students in the class, leading to a very overcrowded school, too much competition, and skewed grade averages.

    In a state (New York) with an abundance of Medical Schools in the NYC and Long Island area already; and a surplus of physicians in these same areas, it's extremely impractical to continue to maintain such an absurd class size to advance the "Osteopathic profession."

    </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Bravo! I couldn't agree with you more. These large classes that some DO schools, including the one mentioned above, are amassing seem to go with the observation, "If you can't beat em', out number em'".
     
  5. ychromosome

    ychromosome Junior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> These large classes that some DO schools, including the one mentioned above, are amassing seem to go with the observation, "If you can't beat em', out number em'". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I guess you guys are dead against the 2 new Osteopathic schools opening then? I, for one, dont see the problem with a larger class size. NYCOM's class is roughly the same size as PCOM's class(give or take ~30 students), and PCOM is very well respected in the medical community. I've never talked to a NYCOM grad who said they werent prepared going into rotations or residency.

    The APEP program may have it's ups and downs, but if it creates some "unnecessary" competition in each class, so be it. Doesnt competition foster better learning and hence better doctors in the end? Guess Harvard has alot of "unnecessary" competition?

    As for the APEPs, the 40 that are accepted are the cream of the crop out of the 500+? that apply. If they want to come to the U.S. and spend another 3-4 years of additional training just to practice in the U.S., god bless 'em. Says alot about foreign medicine, or lack- there-of, and the proverbial "american dream".

    Just my $0.02
     
  6. Dr Sardonicus

    Dr Sardonicus Junior Member

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    What competition? It is my understanding that APEP grades are not averaged in with the grades of "regular" students. APEP is a great program, and I love NYCOM for doing it.

    Also, I never had the feeling of being "overcrowded" on campus. As far as there being too many doctors in NY, since the vast majority of them are MDs, how about closing some of the allopathic schools?
     
  7. pags

    pags Senior Member

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    Let me clarify:

    1)I have no problem with the APEP program at NYCOM. I do have a problem when they ARE counted with rest of the class in the grading system, as was the case during my didactic years. APEPs should be graded separately since they already have had this material once before. I highly doubt things have changed in 2 years. The Dean was adamant for keeping the grading system status quo.

    2)I have no problem with new osteopathic schools. However, I feel class sizes of 250 - 300 are just too large. Faculty/staff to student ratio is high and quality of student services suffer.

    As for competition, that is an individual's decision. Just because it's in the class does not mean you have to participate in it. I've always been competitive with my own expectations, not what Joe Blow did on his OMM practical.

    As a side note, I will do my part to help the oversaturation of physicians in the NYC and Long Island area. I will not practice here.
     
  8. Malvina

    Malvina New Member

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    Interesting comments so far, but still looking for someone who is part of the APEP program.

    For myself, I'm very happy that the program exists. In my case it's not a matter of wanting to come to the USA to practice medicine, I married an american and now we are here. I had already finished my Dermatology residency when we met. I can't say that your american dream motivates me either. I love practicing medicine and especially Dermatology. Osteopathic medicine is one path for me and after looking at all of the options, it seems to be the best way for me - especially because of the APEP program. If I can get in. I still have to go through resident training again as well. That will be interesting though as I will learn new things and get paid for it. Where I come from, we had to pay for both medical school and the resident training. Count your blessings the next time you feel like complaining about how little the resident graduate training pays to you.

    As for APEP doctors skewing the curve in classes, just remember that even though the information may be familiar to them, it's familiar through the lense of another language. Yes, the basic vocabulary is still latin, but all of the culturally implied meanings are part of the richness of the native language. Just the fact that the APEP doctors do that well in class, is a strong indicator of just how smart they are in two languages. Learning to think in another language is no small matter and English is quite a challenge.

    Malvina
     
  9. nycom@juno.com

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Dr Sardonicus:
    <strong>What competition? It is my understanding that APEP grades are not averaged in with the grades of "regular" students. APEP is a great program, and I love NYCOM for doing it.

    Also, I never had the feeling of being "overcrowded" on campus. As far as there being too many doctors in NY, since the vast majority of them are MDs, how about closing some of the allopathic schools?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Dr. Sardonicus:

    E-mail the Dean of the Med. School and you'll learn that the APEP grades are indeed averaged with the rest of the scores: everyone expected to take the examination (even those that aren't in attendance and hence receive a grade of "0") are included in the average--and the APEP students are required to take most exams save for a few that had been previously completed during the summer months.

    The campus and school is indeed overcrowded. I concede that there has been significant construction of "study space" to accommodate the absurd number of students at a school without a hospital; and therefore very low number of full-time or part-time faculty.

    Concerning your reference to the fact that there exists a surplus of doctors in the urban areas of New York: the M.D. Med. Schools have very established, very respected programs, with very prominent hospitals, and accomplished teaching physicians. Beyond that: their class-sizes are within reasonable limits for professional schools that honorably and responsibly tailor the education of their students. If it ever became a matter of one of these schools closing, it would be for financial reasons, and some might be able to prove that the New York College of Osteopathic Medicine received less private funding (for research, or other service) than any other professional school in New York.

    The class size at the New York College of Osteopathic Medicine is simply too large--which the administration justifies by implementing the APEP Program. That's unfair to the regular students that may have to sacrifice their comfort on occasion; and it's unfair to the full-time faculty that have the additional responsibility to handle the inquiries of such a large number of students.

    Good luck.
     
  10. Malvina

    Malvina New Member

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    This is what I have found out so far. The basic requirements listed in the papers the admissions department sends out are: TOEFLE 233 min., Foriegn MD degree evaluated on a course by course basis, and a valid green card.

    If you have the basic requirements and make it into the group of 70-80 students, you are brought to campus in the summer for 2 weeks where you review and are tested on Anatomy, Physiology, and Chemistry (2 exams each), as well as an english test similar to the TOEFLE and a clinical situation exam with a verbal and written component.

    There seems to be some confusion about whether the chemistry section cover inorganic or organic chem, but the evidence seems to point to inorganic.

    At the end of the two weeks, 40 doctors are chosen from the ones who score the highest on all of the exams. The 40 start in the Fall and go for three years instead four. Two years of classroom training (no lab classes) and one year of clinical rotations.

    That's all I have for now. If anyone else can add more, please do. :)
     

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