ortholegoo

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Current OMS III here and I am looking for some advice. I know I just started clinical rotations and I will hopefully find what I love here shortly, but I feel pressed for time. A lot of what I have heard is you need to know by December so you can begin scheduling auditions. Anyways, my stats are as follows:

Level 1: 750
Step 1: 255
Top 5% Pre-Clinical Years
One research publication

As you can tell by my name, I have always had an interest in ortho. My only drawback is I would really love to train at an ACGME program, and I know this is HIGHLY unlikely for ortho. My other interests seem to be radiology, GI, anesthesia, and ENT. Unfortunately I will not be able to rotate in any of these until after December. Just looking for some input on what you might do if you were in my situation. Thanks!
 
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ortholegoo

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Not sure why you think I am trolling. I am looking for advice and figured this would be a good place to ask. Sorry if you feel offended by my asking or my stats. Didn't mean to come off that way.
 
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235009

Current OMS III here and I am looking for some advice. I know I just started clinical rotations and I will hopefully find what I love here shortly, but I feel pressed for time. A lot of what I have heard is you need to know by December so you can begin scheduling auditions. Anyways, my stats are as follows:

Level 1: 750
Step 1: 255
Top 5% Pre-Clinical Years
One research publication

As you can tell by my name, I have always had an interest in ortho. My only drawback is I would really love to train at an ACGME program, and I know this is HIGHLY unlikely for ortho. My other interests seem to be radiology, GI, anesthesia, and ENT. Unfortunately I will not be able to rotate in any of these until after December. Just looking for some input on what you might do if you were in my situation. Thanks!
By the time you apply any program that is still accepting new residents will at least be in the process of applying for ACGME accreditation so odds are you would be graduating from an acgme residency program.


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ortholegoo

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I never thought of that but that is great insight! All this talk of the merger and nobody seems to know how it will effect those of us graduating in 2018. Thanks!
 

Rekt

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I never thought of that but that is great insight! All this talk of the merger and nobody seems to know how it will effect those of us graduating in 2018. Thanks!
Despite what any DO school admins are pissing out of their mouths, the merger will have a negative effect for matching to competitive specialties and a neutral, at best, effect on anything else. For your situation, you should be fine, just be smart with your rotations and make sure your deadlift is up to par
 
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ortholegoo

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Despite what any DO school admins are pissing out of their mouths, the merger will have a negative effect for matching to competitive specialties and a neutral, at best, effect on anything else. For your situation, you should be fine, just be smart with your rotations and make sure your deadlift is up to par
Assuming when you say I should be fine you are talking about matching AOA not ACGME. Am I right?
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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Despite what any DO school admins are pissing out of their mouths, the merger will have a negative effect for matching to competitive specialties and a neutral, at best, effect on anything else. For your situation, you should be fine, just be smart with your rotations and make sure your deadlift is up to par
I think the outcomes for the bottom tier of students may worsen, i.e someone with an under 500 comlex will be essentially locked out of a lot of GS for example. But for the average student having the back up of former AOA programs and acgme may allow some DOs who formerly were either borderline or not to have some leeway in breaking the ceiling.

But sure, for a lot of DOs, especially those at new schools and with poorer stats, they'll be really stuck into FM. Though, most of them were stuck there anyways.
 

FourniersGreenGang

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The other distinct possibility is that it's not as crazy as we think for qualified DO candidates with great scores and experiences to match into ACGME competitive specialties like ortho. The fact of the matter is that it has gone largely untested due to candidates self selecting out of the ACGME match in favor of a much more likely AOA match. In 2020 we won't have to decide so we will get a much truer picture of how top DO candidates fare in the top ACGME specialties match (but I definitely think certain programs within those specialties will continue to be biased).
 

Goro

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This will be a diffusional process, across a gradient. DO PDs, despite the anti-DO opinions of a few ******* residents (not you, Rekt), aren't suddenly going to be bowled over by Drexel or Mercer grads wanting to get into DO ENT, gas, or ortho residencies.

Over time, this may very will happen, and MDs will dominate the "ologists" and DOs Primary Care. IU and MUCOM are quite happy with this arrangement in the Hoosier state. American medical education is an evolutionary process. After all, surgeons once were not considered physicians, a distinction still found in the name of that medical school associated with Columbia U.

To OP, ACGME Ortho might be a hard one...my school has yet to send someone there. But for Rads, try U AZ. For gas, try Loma Linda or SUNY-Brooklyn


Despite what any DO school admins are pissing out of their mouths, the merger will have a negative effect for matching to competitive specialties and a neutral, at best, effect on anything else. For your situation, you should be fine, just be smart with your rotations and make sure your deadlift is up to par
 
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235009

This will be a diffusional process, across a gradient. DO PDs, despite the anti-DO opinions of a few ******* residents (not you, Rekt), aren't suddenly going to be bowled over by Drexel or Mercer grads wanting to get into DO ENT, gas, or ortho residencies.
If you're talking about me I'm no longer a resident and my opinions are not anti-DO they're just realistic. You're basically a used car salesman with a PhD.

I encourage you to go look at Drexel's match list. Even an uninformed tool can tell that it's more impressive than the lists from all the DO schools combined.


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Drrrrrr. Celty

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This will be a diffusional process, across a gradient. DO PDs, despite the anti-DO opinions of a few ******* residents (not you, Rekt), aren't suddenly going to be bowled over by Drexel or Mercer grads wanting to get into DO ENT, gas, or ortho residencies.

Over time, this may very will happen, and MDs will dominate the "ologists" and DOs Primary Care. IU and MUCOM are quite happy with this arrangement in the Hoosier state. American medical education is an evolutionary process. After all, surgeons once were not considered physicians, a distinction still found in the name of that medical school associated with Columbia U.

To OP, ACGME Ortho might be a hard one...my school has yet to send someone there. But for Rads, try U AZ. For gas, try Loma Linda or SUNY-Brooklyn
The reality is that this is already the case. DOs are by in large ending up in Primary care. MDs dominant the specialties. In this respect nothing has changed. But what we got in the process was ACGME accreditation.

Honestly the top and mid tier DO students will probably find themselves benefiting from the merger.
 
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Drrrrrr. Celty

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Lets play nice kids.

Keep the estranged romantic bickering to the private chats.
 
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235009

Lets play nice kids.

Keep the estranged romantic bickering to the private chats.
If anyone else posted the kinds of insults and attacks on another member the way @Goro does they would have been banned several times over. The mods are well aware of his behavior (I've reported at least half a dozen of his posts already). So save your "let's play nice" posts. When someone to whom the rules don't apply outright insults me I'm going to respond.


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Drrrrrr. Celty

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If anyone else posted the kinds of insults and attacks on another member the way @Goro does they would have been banned several times over. The mods are well aware of his behavior (I've reported at least half a dozen of his posts already). So save your "let's play nice" posts. When someone to whom the rules don't apply outright insults me I'm going to respond.


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Personally I think you both crossed the line. Goro should not have called you a *******. You may be abrasive, but you at the very least a helpful individual when you want to be. Just as Goro is occasionally a helpful individual on these boards, who has his moments of being clearly in the wrong.

I would like to avoid having more conflicts like this and would prefer you just either mutually talk this through or one of you block the other.
 
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235009

Personally I think you both crossed the line. Goro should not have called you a *******. You may be abrasive, but you at the very least a helpful individual when you want to be. Just as Goro is occasionally a helpful individual on these boards, who clearly has his moments of being clearly in the wrong.

I would like to avoid having more conflicts like this and would prefer you just either mutually talk this through or one of you block the other.
For a period of time he had me blocked yet would hurl insults at me. He even got called out by a couple of the senior members on here for doing it.

I'm not going to block him and let his misinformation go unchecked. In fact I don't have anyone on ignore.


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Drrrrrr. Celty

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For a period of time he had me blocked yet would hurl insults at me. He even got called out by a couple of the senior members on here for doing it.

I'm not going to block him and let his misinformation go unchecked. In fact I don't have anyone on ignore.


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Then lets try to get you both to play nice together.
 
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235009

Then lets try to get you both to play nice together.
The mods refuse to do anything about it because he brings a lot of traffic ($$$) to the website. The guy has an absurd number of posts per day I'm quite sure all he does is teach a class or two and then spend the rest of his day sitting at a computer posting on sdn.

EDIT: just calculated it...he has 12 posts per day

EDIT2: for the sake of comparison I have 1.2 posts per day and you have 5.7 posts per day

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Drrrrrr. Celty

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The mods refuse to do anything about it because he brings a lot of traffic ($$$) to the website. The guy has an absurd number of posts per day I'm quite sure all he does is teach a class or two and then spend the rest of his day sitting at a computer posting on sdn.

EDIT: just calculated it...he has 12 posts per day

EDIT2: for the sake of comparison I have 1.2 posts per day and you have 5.7 posts per day

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Well we can try to get you and him to at least not antagonize each other. I don't think that much is unnecessary.
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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I don't antagonize him unprompted.
We can get him to not antagonize you then. The key is to foster idk some mutual respect for not blowing up on each other.

That or 5mg of Risperidone....
 

hallowmann

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OK, so to get this back on track.

OP, become friends with the ACGME reports site (linked below). See which programs have applied, which programs have attained accreditation, etc. Half of the Ortho programs have already applied, so you should be fine. 26 have applied (deadline is January I think) and 5 already have initial ACGME accreditation. Just be aware that if a program becomes ACGME accredited before Sept/Oct of next year, you will be competing with MDs, which might be fine if you already rotated there. You have the stats to compete.

https://apps.acgme.org/ads/Public
https://apps.acgme.org/ads/Public/Reports/Report/18

I think the outcomes for the bottom tier of students may worsen, i.e someone with an under 500 comlex will be essentially locked out of a lot of GS for example. But for the average student having the back up of former AOA programs and acgme may allow some DOs who formerly were either borderline or not to have some leeway in breaking the ceiling.

But sure, for a lot of DOs, especially those at new schools and with poorer stats, they'll be really stuck into FM. Though, most of them were stuck there anyways.
People with poor stats get into Path, PM&R, Peds, IM, and a host of other non-competitive residencies every year. FM isn't just a dumping ground... there just are a bazillion spots all over, second only to IM.
 
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Drrrrrr. Celty

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I doubt someone who is bottom of their class wants to do Path.

And I totally agree. I misspoke somewhat.
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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?

It's one of the easiest specialities to get into.
Idk, I think it's a personality thing. Same thing with Neuro and Psych. Most people at the bottom of classes probably aren't the types to really be interested in living the life and times of Robbins.
 

IslandStyle808

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Despite what any DO school admins are pissing out of their mouths, the merger will have a negative effect for matching to competitive specialties and a neutral, at best, effect on anything else. For your situation, you should be fine, just be smart with your rotations and make sure your deadlift is up to par
I actually disagree with this. Its a combined match so there is a "potential" positive effect in that he has the chance of matching into a better program than being stuck in a former AOA program.

The reality is the risk is greater and so is the reward.
 

hallowmann

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Idk, I think it's a personality thing. Same thing with Neuro and Psych. Most people at the bottom of classes probably aren't the types to really be interested in living the life and times of Robbins.
That doesn't mean a lot of those people aren't at the bottom of their class. I know plenty of bottom 15% people going for Psych, Peds, and Path. Its a personality thing with almost any specialty. The only one where that might not be the case is IM, because from it people can do many different subspecialties so it catches a lot of different personalities (the same may be said for FM, but more because of the variety of potential focuses/work environments) and it catches people who just don't want to decide yet.

I want to also say that bottom 15% of a class might be bad from our skewed competitive med school perspectives, but we're still talking about physicians here. People who have gotten in and made it through med school, will likely complete residency and become board certified. I mean no disrespect to any of those people. Given worse timed deaths/life events that I experienced in med school, I could potentially have been with them. I want to make it clear that just because I'm saying people with low stats regularly go into these fields, that doesn't mean I don't respect those people or those fields.

Heck, I'm going into FM. The only thing that bothers me about people with low stats going into it is because a lot of people have this attitude that if you have low stats, you have to do FM, whether you actually like the work or not. There are plenty of fields that people with low stats can go into. Pick what you like, don't just pick FM because you think its the only place that'll take you.
 
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Drrrrrr. Celty

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That doesn't mean a lot of those people aren't at the bottom of their class. I know plenty of bottom 15% people going for Psych, Peds, and Path. Its a personality thing with almost any specialty. The only one where that might not be the case is IM, because from it people can do many different subspecialties so it catches a lot of different personalities (the same may be said for FM, but more because of the variety of potential focuses/work environments) and it catches people who just don't want to decide yet.

I want to also say that bottom 15% of a class might be bad from our skewed competitive med school perspectives, but we're still talking about physicians here. People who have gotten in and made it through med school, will likely complete residency and become board certified. I mean no disrespect to any of those people. Given worse timed deaths/life events that I experienced in med school, I could potentially have been with them. I want to make it clear that just because I'm saying people with low stats regularly go into these fields, that doesn't mean I don't respect those people or those fields.

Heck, I'm going into FM. The only thing that bothers me about people with low stats going into it is because a lot of people have this attitude that if you have low stats, you have to do FM, whether you actually like the work or not. There are plenty of fields that people with low stats can go into. Pick what you like, don't just pick FM because you think its the only place that'll take you.
I'm going to admit that my perspective is very much biased. My PI was a pathologist, some of the most brilliant people who I know are pathologists, and the people who I know are in the bottom of the class at my school tend to not find pathology, pathophysiology, science interesting. I'm sure by all means there probably are people who are bottom of their class who want to do path, I just find it difficult to wrap my head around. Like for example, Path is on my list of options only because I do find pathophysiology and histology interesting, I do find integrating basic science, research, etc into my work to be interesting. But that presents right now with me being interested in active enough to work in my systems classes. But hey, I'm probably just full of crap right here frankly as I've never seen someone outside of generally high performers at my school express an interest in path.

I'm not trying to disrespect those people either. I find it extremely awful that people on SDN are so quick to associate being in FM as having been a bad med student or having had no other options. Plenty of my friends are brilliant people who want to do FM because they like variability and they have that personality. I'm the same way, it wouldn't matter if I was even in the top 10 percentile, I still wouldn't want to do Ortho.
 
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hallowmann

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I'm going to admit that my perspective is very much biased. My PI was a pathologist, some of the most brilliant people who I know are pathologists, and the people who I know are in the bottom of the class at my school tend to not find pathology, pathophysiology, science interesting. I'm sure by all means there probably are people who are bottom of their class who want to do path, I just find it difficult to wrap my head around. Like for example, Path is on my list of options only because I do find pathophysiology and histology interesting, I do find integrating basic science, research, etc into my work to be interesting. But that presents right now with me being interested in active enough to work in my systems classes. But hey, I'm probably just full of crap right here frankly as I've never seen someone outside of generally high performers at my school express an interest in path.

I'm not trying to disrespect those people either. I find it extremely awful that people on SDN are so quick to associate being in FM as having been a bad med student or having had no other options. Plenty of my friends are brilliant people who want to do FM because they like variability and they have that personality. I'm the same way, it wouldn't matter if I was even in the top 10 percentile, I still wouldn't want to do Ortho.
Absolutely, there are plenty of high performers in Path. I'm actually very familiar with the field on many levels as well. Its just there are also some people that got into med school, didn't like the whole clinical side, did OK second year because of Path, but not great in others (namely anatomy, pharm and micro), and they're looking at Path. Given the lifestyle, its not all that competitive and that means there's openings in the field for people that didn't perform all that well in med school.

Everyone has their own skills and motivations, and like I said, an under performer in med school could be due to more than ability, motivation, and capacity. A lot of the time its life events. Like I said, if certain things that happened to me happened before that one pre-clinical exam as opposed to after, or right before Step 1 as opposed to almost immediately after, I might be right down there with them. Med school, and I guess the profession in general, doesn't always afford a ton of second chances (sometimes it does, but its only with regards to certain things).