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Looking to apply DO, are there any red flags at the following schools?

meijihellopanda

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the schools I am looking at right now are as follows:
  • PCOM PA
  • NSUKPCOM
  • KCUMB
  • Rocky Vista
  • Rowan
  • Des Moines
  • OKState
  • MSUCOM
  • WesternU
  • Campbell
I know a lot of these schools have heavy in-state bias and I would like to apply to them regardless, but is there anything wrong with the quality of the school? Things I would consider red flags are spread out rotations, dress code (or any weird rules in general), or anything else that could come to mind as a potential issue. I think all of these schools should be ok from my searching through SDN, but it never hurts to ask. Thanks in advance!
 
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Deecee2DO

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the schools I am looking at right now are as follows:
  • PCOM PA
  • NSUKPCOM
  • KCUMB
  • Rocky Vista
  • Rowan
  • Des Moines
  • OKState
  • MSUCOM
  • WesternU
  • Campbell
I know a lot of these schools have heavy in-state bias and I would like to apply to them regardless, but is there anything wrong with the quality of the school? Things I would consider red flags are spread out rotations, dress code (or any weird rules in general), or anything else that could come to mind as a potential issue. I think all of these schools should be ok from my searching through SDN, but it never hurts to ask. Thanks in advance!
MSU (nassar) and NSU (board pass rates). All the others are great DO programs. KCU, Des moines and OKstate have insane matches. if you can net one of those schools if youre applying DO then youre golden
 
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Kumorebi

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the schools I am looking at right now are as follows:
  • PCOM PA
  • NSUKPCOM
  • KCUMB
  • Rocky Vista
  • Rowan
  • Des Moines
  • OKState
  • MSUCOM
  • WesternU
  • Campbell
I know a lot of these schools have heavy in-state bias and I would like to apply to them regardless, but is there anything wrong with the quality of the school? Things I would consider red flags are spread out rotations, dress code (or any weird rules in general), or anything else that could come to mind as a potential issue. I think all of these schools should be ok from my searching through SDN, but it never hurts to ask. Thanks in advance!
Campbell has mandatory dress code and attendance.
 
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meijihellopanda

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MSU (nassar) and NSU (board pass rates). All the others are great DO programs
NSU isnt a problem as its the better DO school in my state, but does Nassar impact the school in any way? I originally had MSUCOM on my list because I was told they had many in-house residencies, but would the Nassar thing impact matching? I'm not tryna be an ass, im just genuinely curious. Thanks!

Campbell has mandatory dress code and attendance.
OOP that's off the list, thanks!
 

Deecee2DO

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NSU isnt a problem as its the better DO school in my state, but does Nassar impact the school in any way? I originally had MSUCOM on my list because I was told they had many in-house residencies, but would the Nassar thing impact matching? I'm not tryna be an ass, im just genuinely curious. Thanks!


OOP that's off the list, thanks!
I just dont think its a good idea just because of the stigma. Why go there when you could go somewhere else thats just as good. Unless youre from Michigan chances of you getting accepted there are pretty slim. they favor in-state like crazy. I wouldnt go to NSU with their board pass history recently right @Goro ?
 

Sky138

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Would you want to attend a school where sexual predation by faculty was a thing? It might not impact your residency prospects but remember, you have to live there for 4 years. If it turns out the school atmosphere is still toxic, what would you do?
 

Kumorebi

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NSU isnt a problem as its the better DO school in my state, but does Nassar impact the school in any way? I originally had MSUCOM on my list because I was told they had many in-house residencies, but would the Nassar thing impact matching? I'm not tryna be an ass, im just genuinely curious. Thanks!


OOP that's off the list, thanks!

It also has 100% match rate and great board scores for both USMLE and COMLEX. They also have their own residency programs which include general surgery, derm, and their own cardiology fellowship.


COMLEX-USA Level 1
2016-2020 NBOME Cycle Data
First-Time Pass Rate & Mean Scores
COMLEX-USA LEVEL 1NBOME CYCLE
05/01/2016-04/30/2017
NBOME CYCLE
05/01/2017-04/30/2018
NBOME CYCLE
05/01/2018-04/30/2019
NBOME CYCLE
05/01/2019-04/30/2020
FOUR-YEAR
AVERAGE
CUSOM First-Time Pass Rate92.72%99.35%98.73%98.03%97.24%
National First-Time Pass Rate92.68%95.95%92.99%94.45%94.03%
CUSOM Mean527.77561.48564.53555.77552.59
National Mean519.52557.81526.00535.44534.72

Four-Year Score Distribution
SCORE RANGEPERCENTAGE OF CUSOM STUDENTS
700-7993.73%
600-69924.03%
500-59945.29%
400-49924.19%
<4002.76%

USMLE Step 1
2015-2019 USMLE Annual Data
First-Time Pass Rate

USMLE STEP 120152016201720182019FIVE-YEAR AVERAGE
CUSOM First-Time Pass Rate100.00%94.00%99.00%99.00%100.00%98.63%
National First-Time Pass Rate95.00%95.00%96.00%96.00%97.00%95.80%
(five-year average)
 

Deecee2DO

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It also has 100% match rate and great board scores for both USMLE and COMLEX. They also have their own residency programs which include general surgery, derm, and their own cardiology fellowship.


COMLEX-USA Level 1
2016-2020 NBOME Cycle Data
First-Time Pass Rate & Mean Scores
COMLEX-USA LEVEL 1NBOME CYCLE
05/01/2016-04/30/2017
NBOME CYCLE
05/01/2017-04/30/2018
NBOME CYCLE
05/01/2018-04/30/2019
NBOME CYCLE
05/01/2019-04/30/2020
FOUR-YEAR
AVERAGE
CUSOM First-Time Pass Rate92.72%99.35%98.73%98.03%97.24%
National First-Time Pass Rate92.68%95.95%92.99%94.45%94.03%
CUSOM Mean527.77561.48564.53555.77552.59
National Mean519.52557.81526.00535.44534.72

Four-Year Score Distribution
SCORE RANGEPERCENTAGE OF CUSOM STUDENTS
700-7993.73%
600-69924.03%
500-59945.29%
400-49924.19%
<4002.76%

USMLE Step 1
2015-2019 USMLE Annual Data
First-Time Pass Rate

USMLE STEP 120152016201720182019FIVE-YEAR AVERAGE
CUSOM First-Time Pass Rate100.00%94.00%99.00%99.00%100.00%98.63%
National First-Time Pass Rate95.00%95.00%96.00%96.00%97.00%95.80%
(five-year average)
I wont deny Campbell is a phenomenal DO school however mandatory attendance is insanity. I wouldnt tell my worst enemy to go to a med school with mandatory attendance and dress code
 

Kumorebi

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I wont deny Campbell is a phenomenal DO school however mandatory attendance is insanity. I wouldnt tell my worst enemy to go to a med school with mandatory attendance and dress code
Word down the grape vine is that the dress code is getting very lax and you can wear headphones in class and do your own thing if your want. You can miss one class a week (you have to attend a certain % of classes) or save it for when you don't feel like going to class.

I agree though, it's not for everyone and can be a deal-breaker.
 
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meijihellopanda

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It also has 100% match rate and great board scores for both USMLE and COMLEX. They also have their own residency programs which include general surgery, derm, and their own cardiology fellowship.


COMLEX-USA Level 1
2016-2020 NBOME Cycle Data
First-Time Pass Rate & Mean Scores
COMLEX-USA LEVEL 1NBOME CYCLE
05/01/2016-04/30/2017
NBOME CYCLE
05/01/2017-04/30/2018
NBOME CYCLE
05/01/2018-04/30/2019
NBOME CYCLE
05/01/2019-04/30/2020
FOUR-YEAR
AVERAGE
CUSOM First-Time Pass Rate92.72%99.35%98.73%98.03%97.24%
National First-Time Pass Rate92.68%95.95%92.99%94.45%94.03%
CUSOM Mean527.77561.48564.53555.77552.59
National Mean519.52557.81526.00535.44534.72

Four-Year Score Distribution
SCORE RANGEPERCENTAGE OF CUSOM STUDENTS
700-7993.73%
600-69924.03%
500-59945.29%
400-49924.19%
<4002.76%

USMLE Step 1
2015-2019 USMLE Annual Data
First-Time Pass Rate

USMLE STEP 120152016201720182019FIVE-YEAR AVERAGE
CUSOM First-Time Pass Rate100.00%94.00%99.00%99.00%100.00%98.63%
National First-Time Pass Rate95.00%95.00%96.00%96.00%97.00%95.80%
(five-year average)
Oh wow, I didn't know that CUSOM had so many fantastic programs! That being said, however, I do not think I could do any schooling at a location that requires attendance since I have heard (both anecdotally and online) that most learning happens from home. Thank you for the information though! I might have to think about adding it back to my list though because in-house general surgery is honestly pretty enticing.
 
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meijihellopanda

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I just dont think its a good idea just because of the stigma. Why go there when you could go somewhere else thats just as good. Unless youre from Michigan chances of you getting accepted there are pretty slim. they favor in-state like crazy. I wouldnt go to NSU with their board pass history recently right @Goro ?
While all the other schools are quality schools with in house residencies or similar connections, NSU is more about staying close to home, and I feel as though I can succeed at NSU! MSU is a total gamble though, I agree.

Would you want to attend a school where sexual predation by faculty was a thing? It might not impact your residency prospects but remember, you have to live there for 4 years. If it turns out the school atmosphere is still toxic, what would you do?
That is true, I did not consider the school's culture. Thank you for pointing that out!
 

Deecee2DO

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While all the other schools are quality schools with in house residencies or similar connections, NSU is more about staying close to home, and I feel as though I can succeed at NSU! MSU is a total gamble though, I agree.


That is true, I did not consider the school's culture. Thank you for pointing that out!
I mean it sounds like youre not hearing what you want to hear about NSU since youre defending it. Im just being frank with you which was the purpose of this thread. I personally dont think its the best decision compared to the other schools on that list
 

Osminog

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The notion that MSUCOM might have a “toxic culture” or that there is a “stigma” associated with being a student there is laughable and downright asinine. The despicable actions of Dr. Nassar and the suffering that he willfully inflicted on his own patients aren’t somehow an indictment of the entire institution’s academic and ethical standards. Virtually every large, established medical school has at least a few students, faculty members, or alumni who have been caught doing extremely unethical things. Let’s not judge schools on the basis of guilt by association.

With all of that being said, the out-of-state tuition at MSUCOM is absurdly high. That’s why I chose not to apply there when I was applying to medical schools.
 
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Sky138

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The notion that MSUCOM might have a “toxic culture” or that there is a “stigma” associated with being a student there is laughable and downright asinine. The despicable actions of Dr. Nassar and the suffering that he willfully inflicted on his own patients aren’t somehow an indictment of the entire institution’s academic and ethical standards. Virtually every large, established medical school has at least a few students, faculty members, or alumni who have been caught doing extremely unethical things. Let’s not judge schools on the basis of guilt by association.

With all of that being said, the out-of-state tuition at MSUCOM is absurdly high. That’s why I chose not to apply there when I was applying to medical schools.

“William Strampel: The former dean of the university's College of Osteopathic Medicine was charged in March 2018 amid allegations that he failed to keep Nassar in line, groped female students and stored nude student selfies on his campus computer. Strampel, who has also been named in lawsuits, retired even as Michigan State was trying to fire him. He was found guilty June 12 of neglect of duty but acquitted on a more serious criminal sexual-conduct charge. Strampel was sentenced Aug. 7 to a year in jail.”

We’re little more than two years from when the dean charged for a neglect of duty. I wonder exactly what the dean was neglecting, could it be student wellbeing perhaps? Maybe I’m wrong as I don’t have any experience building a school but I’m certain it takes more than two years to establish a culture. Especially when the offender is not only a random faculty member but also the dean.
 
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the schools I am looking at right now are as follows:
  • PCOM PA
  • NSUKPCOM
  • KCUMB
  • Rocky Vista
  • Rowan
  • Des Moines
  • OKState
  • MSUCOM
  • WesternU
  • Campbell
I know a lot of these schools have heavy in-state bias and I would like to apply to them regardless, but is there anything wrong with the quality of the school? Things I would consider red flags are spread out rotations, dress code (or any weird rules in general), or anything else that could come to mind as a potential issue. I think all of these schools should be ok from my searching through SDN, but it never hurts to ask. Thanks in advance!

Only the public DO schools have a heave IS bias. That would be Rowan, OKCOM and MSUCOM

I can't recommend Nova. Here's why: Two of the four last years have declining first-time COMLEX pass rates. The last two years for which we have data are in the low 90s. Some 7% of their 2018 grads failed to match, ditto 4% of their Class of 2019. There are also signs of significant delay to graduation in these numbers. That’s still not good for a veteran school. I’d expect > 95% pass rates and match rates closer to 100%. These problems are you expect from a new school, not a veteran. Something is very wrong there. See: Residency Match Data and COMLEX Level 3 Board Scores | NSU COM
 

Obnoxious Dad

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Larry Nassar

“William Strampel: The former dean of the university's College of Osteopathic Medicine was charged in March 2018 amid allegations that he failed to keep Nassar in line, groped female students and stored nude student selfies on his campus computer. Strampel, who has also been named in lawsuits, retired even as Michigan State was trying to fire him. He was found guilty June 12 of neglect of duty but acquitted on a more serious criminal sexual-conduct charge. Strampel was sentenced Aug. 7 to a year in jail.”

We’re little more than two years from when the dean charged for a neglect of duty. I wonder exactly what the dean was neglecting, could it be student wellbeing perhaps? Maybe I’m wrong as I don’t have any experience building a school but I’m certain it takes more than two years to establish a culture. Especially when the offender is not only a random faculty member but also the dean.
It is true that Michigan State's D.O. non resident tuition is absurdly high but avoiding the school because of Larry Nassar's crimes is absolutely stupid. Just 60 miles down the road from East Lansing you will find the University of Michigan. Robert Anderson M.D. sexually abused hundreds of male and female athletes at the U of M. This went on for almost 30 years. It's highly likely that the athletic director and some of the coaches knew what was going on. The University of Michigan is now trying to get all of these cases settled without anyone going to trial.
Do you think anybody is going to turn down admission to the University of Michigan Medical School because of Robert Anderson? Give me a break!
See the outcomes for the 2019 MSU DO class:
 
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Sky138

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It is true that Michigan State's D.O. non resident tuition is absurdly high but avoiding the school because of Larry Nassar's crimes is absolutely stupid. Just 60 miles down the road from East Lansing you will find the University of Michigan. Robert Anderson M.D. sexually abused hundreds of male and female athletes at the U of M. This went on for almost 30 years. It's highly likely that the athletic director and some of the coaches knew what was going on. The University of Michigan is now trying to get all of these cases settled without anyone going to trial.
Do you think anybody is going to turn down admission to the University of Michigan Medical School because of Robert Anderson? Give me a break!
See the outcomes for the 2019 MSU DO class:
Actually yeah I would lol. Especially since good old memelord is matriculating there despite being a sexual predator on his second look day. I will have no part in attending a school that has a history of supporting fools like Anderson and memelord
 
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DO2015CA

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