LOR Requirements

[bane84]

Hey all,

I'm a Canadian student applying to US Schools, and I have a question about LORs....

I never knew that US schools actually require a certain number of reference letters from a specific source, until I found this pdf: http://www.premed101.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=11&d=1174543575

In Canada, LORs can be from anyone who knows you well.

Should I treat the info in this pdf as a guide, or as an absolute? Has anyone seen/ obeyed the requirements in this pdf?

Kinda freaking out here

Please reply, and thanks!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[mongrel]

Your best bet is to just check the individual schools' websites. They'll have their current requirements fo sho.

 

[bane84]

Your best bet is to just check the individual schools' websites. They'll have their current requirements fo sho.

Thanks for replying. That really bites tho. Have you ever seen the list before?

 

[gujuDoc]

Thanks for replying. That really bites tho. Have you ever seen the list before?

Post the list as an attachment. I think I might know what you are talking about but the link you gave is not something we can gain access to without membership on that forum.

Also, it is true that letters are supposed to be from science and non science professors not any joe shmo that knows you well.

 

[bane84]

here is the file as an attachment. My bad. Sorry bout that!

 

[gujuDoc]

here is the file as an attachment. My bad. Sorry bout that!

Yeah that's the same one I have and it is dead on and very very accurate!!!!

But to sum that whole thing together, the best thing to do is:

have 2 science letters, 1 non science letters, and additional character or peer letters where it is needed.

By science letters and non science letters, you need a professor who is of professor, associate professor, or assistant professor to write them rather then graduate students.

The higher the status of the professor and more well they know you the better it is.

 

[gleneagles3]

wow these requirements piss me off! why would i want some professor who I may have received a good grade in their class and knows I want to be a doctor, write me a letter? How good can that really be? instead i have doctors ,and other professionals, who have known me personally for many years and have practically followed every step I have taken to become a doctor writing me letters. Because of these requirements they will only be OPTIONAL letters and may not even be read. Is their anyway to get around these requirements?

 

[gujuDoc]

wow these requirements piss me off! why would i want some professor who I may have received a good grade in their class and knows I want to be a doctor, write me a letter? How good can that really be? instead i have doctors ,and other professionals, who have known me personally for many years and have practically followed every step I have taken to become a doctor writing me letters. Because of these requirements they will only be OPTIONAL letters and may not even be read. Is their anyway to get around these requirements?

To answer your last question: NO!!!

They want to see people who've seen your academic capabilities give an assessment of you. The professor letters are far more important to them then MD letters unless those MDs in fact taught you some sort of course.

Some people I know used MD letters of people who taught them honors classes in topics like ethics or survey of human diseases and things like that, but otherwise, those letters don't mean as much as a professor letter unless specifically asked for.

 

[87138]

Quick question . . . does a committee LOR override these requirements? For most schools' secondaries I've seen, some basically say "you either need 3 letters, 2 being science, 1 other, or 1 committee LOR/packet."

So I'm thinking that as long as someone who has a committee satisfies the requirements of that committee (mine was 2 science/1 non-science minimum), they should be fine in the LOR department for most/all schools? I know people will say "best to check with each individual med school" . . . I'm just wondering if anyone has come across an example of a school that has specific requirements above "just" a committee LOR, assuming you're applying with one.

 

[gujuDoc]

YES!!!!

Committee letters replace the 2 sci. 1 non sci. requirement because they serve to combine the info many professors have given you in one packet.

The point of these guidelines in the attached list is for those who don't have committees as there are many schools who don't have committees to do LORs. Up until this past year, USF was like that.

However, if a school specifically asks for a peer letter that is usually separate of the rest of the package. For instance, UF and FSU ask specifically for you to have someone who is a friend, classmate, or so forth on the same level as you to write a letter. They want that separate of the committee letter or letters coming from professors.

Quick question . . . does a committee LOR override these requirements? For most schools' secondaries I've seen, some basically say "you either need 3 letters, 2 being science, 1 other, or 1 committee LOR/packet."

So I'm thinking that as long as someone who has a committee satisfies the requirements of that committee (mine was 2 science/1 non-science minimum), they should be fine in the LOR department for most/all schools? I know people will say "best to check with each individual med school" . . . I'm just wondering if anyone has come across an example of a school that has specific requirements above "just" a committee LOR, assuming you're applying with one.

 

[mvenus929]

For instance, UF and FSU ask specifically for you to have someone who is a friend, classmate, or so forth on the same level as you to write a letter. They want that separate of the committee letter or letters coming from professors.

Not that this means anything to me, but I had honestly never heard of that requirement before. Very interesting.

 

[gujuDoc]

Not that this means anything to me, but I had honestly never heard of that requirement before. Very interesting.

yeah I have written a few of these character letters for different people I know. The one I wrote it for last year ended up not really needing it in the end as he cancelled his interview at the school I wrote it for, when he got his acceptance to top choice.

 

[bane84]

Lets say for example, School XYZ wants "3 letters required: one from health professions advisor and two basic science faculty".

My school has no health professions advisor. Is who I ask to write this letter just up to me?

What happens to all those people who never knew about this list? They just get axed? Or is it just me who never knew about it?

 

[medking]

Yeah that's the same one I have and it is dead on and very very accurate!!!!

Although it is mostly accurate for the schools that I applied to, I have found one error. There may be more. BUT, this pdf is definitely useful.

To the OP: Check the individual schools websites for their requirements if you want to be sure sure.

 

[mvenus929]

Lets say for example, School XYZ wants "3 letters required: one from health professions advisor and two basic science faculty".

My school has no health professions advisor. Is who I ask to write this letter just up to me?

What happens to all those people who never knew about this list? They just get axed? Or is it just me who never knew about it?

The list just shows what schools already tell you. Johns Hopkins tells you in secondary instructions. So does Cornell, AECOM, and Jefferson. Those are the secondaries I've seen, anyway. The general rule is just to get 2 science, 1 nonscience, and one from your major. Jefferson is the exception I've seen to that, since they require 4 science recommendations (I think...).

Places like U of Minnesota require certain forms to be filled out as well (so I'm kinda dreading to see if I get an interview there).

As far as your predicament... e-mail the school. I'm sure they get lots of those problems, and know exactly what you should send in it's place. Maybe another professor or something.

 

[gujuDoc]

Lets say for example, School XYZ wants "3 letters required: one from health professions advisor and two basic science faculty".

My school has no health professions advisor. Is who I ask to write this letter just up to me?

What happens to all those people who never knew about this list? They just get axed? Or is it just me who never knew about it?

advisor letters only mean something if you use a committee letter. Otherwise, its 2 sci. and 1 non sci. professor at most schools. That should suffice.

 

[bane84]

thanks for the feedback

one more thing tho... By Science Faculty, is it acceptable to have a research professor (ex- Honors project supervisor) write my LOR, or must it be someone from the classroom who has taught me a course.

I really hate how picky this is.

 

[Jeokitty]

As a follow-up question, since I'm also Canadian applying to US schools... are psych profs considered science or non-science to US schools? At my school psych is considered a science, but I know that's not the case in most other places.

 

[gujuDoc]

As a follow-up question, since I'm also Canadian applying to US schools... are psych profs considered science or non-science to US schools? At my school psych is considered a science, but I know that's not the case in most other places.

depends. If it were like physiological pyschology I'd consider that a science. If it were like intro psych, it is a social science which is a science per say but not what they mean when they say sci professors. They usually mean natural science professors i.e. physics, chem, bio, etc.

 

[gujuDoc]

thanks for the feedback

one more thing tho... By Science Faculty, is it acceptable to have a research professor (ex- Honors project supervisor) write my LOR, or must it be someone from the classroom who has taught me a course.

I really hate how picky this is.

If the person you did research with was also a classroom professor of yours it would suffice, otherwise you need to find a professor you took a sci. course with.

My advice to you is that if they agree, then you should provide them with a copy of your Personal Statement, resume, transcripts, and maybe spend a few minutes talking to them to give them an idea of who you are. That is how one of the major biology professors on campus does it here. He teaches everything from genetics to microbiology to upper tier microbiology courses and everyone goes to him for LORs at our school. He usually gives a 15 min. interview if he doesn't know you well and then asks that you supply the other materials I mentioned above. Works out every time. We have a cell bio professor who does the same thing as well as an ochem professor who does this often.

 

[bane84]

If the person you did research with was also a classroom professor of yours it would suffice, otherwise you need to find a professor you took a sci. course with.

My advice to you is that if they agree, then you should provide them with a copy of your Personal Statement, resume, transcripts, and maybe spend a few minutes talking to them to give them an idea of who you are. That is how one of the major biology professors on campus does it here. He teaches everything from genetics to microbiology to upper tier microbiology courses and everyone goes to him for LORs at our school. He usually gives a 15 min. interview if he doesn't know you well and then asks that you supply the other materials I mentioned above. Works out every time. We have a cell bio professor who does the same thing as well as an ochem professor who does this often.

Great. Thanks GD. I was wondering how I should approach the profs I've had since I usually only visit them a few times when I need help.

But let's say I just can't get the letters that the schools want (like 2 science profs, 1 non-science prof). Would that mean I'm screwed and auto rejection?

(maybe this isnt something that can be answered by anyone here, but thought I'd field it anyway)

 

[gleneagles3]

Since I am also having trouble finding a professor I am comfortable with, would it be a good idea to wait until classes start again and attempt to get my letters as soon as possible from my new professors for the semester? For example, I have my classes scheduled with professors that I have had in the past, but this semester I would discuss with them my intentions for medical school immediately.

I know this waiting is going to hurt, but right now I see it as the only way to get a good letter and meet the requirements. By the way, I mostly want to get into my small state school anyway.

 

[gujuDoc]

Since I am also having trouble finding a professor I am comfortable with, would it be a good idea to wait until classes start again and attempt to get my letters as soon as possible from my new professors for the semester? For example, I have my classes scheduled with professors that I have had in the past, but this semester I would discuss with them my intentions for medical school immediately.

I know this waiting is going to hurt, but right now I see it as the only way to get a good letter and meet the requirements. By the way, I mostly want to get into my small state school anyway.

I'd not wait. Follow the advice I gave Bane and that should give them substantial information to write a good strong letter.

 

[gujuDoc]

Great. Thanks GD. I was wondering how I should approach the profs I've had since I usually only visit them a few times when I need help.

But let's say I just can't get the letters that the schools want (like 2 science profs, 1 non-science prof). Would that mean I'm screwed and auto rejection?

(maybe this isnt something that can be answered by anyone here, but thought I'd field it anyway)

To get the requirements overrided you'd have to contact individual admissions offices of schools you are applying to.

 

[bane84]

To get the requirements overrided you'd have to contact individual admissions offices of schools you are applying to.

Nice. Thanks again for the reply, GD.

I just spoke with one of my very very few non-science course teachers and she said she'd write me a solid letter within 3 weeks. I guess I got lucky with that. Oh, and I also provided her with my PS, transcript, and Work/Activities, which she really appreciated. that was great advice

Now I'll just need 1 more science prof. Sucks to be a premed.

 

[5jabi]

What about for Engineers and other non-traditional students.........can the LoRs be from Engineering profs? Or do they have to be from a science prof?

 

[Steeler7588]

here is the file as an attachment. My bad. Sorry bout that!

Does anyone know where this list is hosted, and how accurate it still is? It's from 2005, so I'm not sure if any schools have changed their LoR requirements. It might not need updating though, if they haven't.