LORs, maybe a bit of a rant

[charmedj7]

So I imagine I am not the only one in this boat, so I wanted to throw it out there and see if anyone has any advice, words of wisdom, or just wants to join in on the rant.

I have been 3 years out of my first undergraduate degree at a large university and I am 2 years out of a post-bacc degree. I am in that gray zone between trad and non-trad, schools I have talked to are very unwilling to waive the 3 academic letters requirement unless the applicant has been out 5+ years, but you know, of course they are willing to accept any other letters in supplement. So here I am, easily got 2 professional references, 1 volunteer, 1 prof I did research with in undergrad, and 1 prof from post-bacc. CANNOT GET A THIRD LETTER. I emailed one prof from undergrad who gave me a ref before for post-bacc but she balked because it had been 3 years. I emailed another 2 from post-bacc, one flat-out said no the other just didn't respond. Of course I still have a few I can try, it's just frustrating that after several years 1) med schools still expect as many academic references as a new graduate and 2) that the previous professors are so shocked and appalled someone they weren't super close to at the time wants to go back to school after being in the working world.

I'm just frustrated... I've never liked the idea of "academic references" in the first place because I feel academics is one place your ability speaks for itself (GPA, MCAT, writing ability). Of course I could take another course at a local school in time for this app cycle and I will if I have to, it just seems like such a dumb reason to delay submission.

Any other gray zoners out there? What did/are you do/doing?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[notbobtrustme]

oof, you're in a tough spot. I was out 7 years and thus was able to substitute work/research LORs for academic ones.

Have you taken any classes recently? I know you mentioned you had a prof from a post-bacc, are there any others you can hit up? That might be a good way to sneak an academic letter in. If your university has a pre-med committee, see how long they will help alumni. My alma mater's pre-med committee supports students up to 5 years after they graduate with a committee letter.

 

[SrootsWwings]

First of all, sorry! I am 3 years out and am counting heavily on my soon-to-take classes to find fresher academic letters.

If I understand your situation correctly, the three doors I would knock on:

1) Notbob's idea - other post-bacc profs
2) Recheck with the non-respondent post-bacc prof; could it just be good ol' academic head-in-the-clouds? Can't hurt to recontact.
3) Just start contacting your pre-req profs from your undergrad school from classes you did well in - it won't be the Mr. Chips relationship we all want, but it could be the letter you need. Big school profs can be understanding of situations like this. Out of all of them, there very well may be one who hears your situation, sees your potential, and helps you out.

Best of luck!!!

 

[qwerty2012]

So I imagine I am not the only one in this boat, so I wanted to throw it out there and see if anyone has any advice, words of wisdom, or just wants to join in on the rant.

I have been 3 years out of my first undergraduate degree at a large university and I am 2 years out of a post-bacc degree. I am in that gray zone between trad and non-trad, schools I have talked to are very unwilling to waive the 3 academic letters requirement unless the applicant has been out 5+ years, but you know, of course they are willing to accept any other letters in supplement. So here I am, easily got 2 professional references, 1 volunteer, 1 prof I did research with in undergrad, and 1 prof from post-bacc. CANNOT GET A THIRD LETTER. I emailed one prof from undergrad who gave me a ref before for post-bacc but she balked because it had been 3 years. I emailed another 2 from post-bacc, one flat-out said no the other just didn't respond. Of course I still have a few I can try, it's just frustrating that after several years 1) med schools still expect as many academic references as a new graduate and 2) that the previous professors are so shocked and appalled someone they weren't super close to at the time wants to go back to school after being in the working world.

I'm just frustrated... I've never liked the idea of "academic references" in the first place because I feel academics is one place your ability speaks for itself (GPA, MCAT, writing ability). Of course I could take another course at a local school in time for this app cycle and I will if I have to, it just seems like such a dumb reason to delay submission.

Any other gray zoners out there? What did/are you do/doing?

I find your story absolutely hard to believe. I have never heard any Professors not writing letters after a few years. Were you a d-bag? Did you sleep with their spouses or children?

 

[notbobtrustme]

I find your story absolutely hard to believe. I have never heard any Professors not writing letters after a few years. Were you a d-bag? Did you sleep with their spouses or children?

It's not that uncommon especially if some of those classes had large class sizes. Professors have to keep track of hundreds of students in any given year, asking them to remember back 3 years is a daunting task. Some of the better professors will refuse to write a letter if they can't write a good one. This helps you out because a generic letter can be a kiss of death.

 

[qwerty2012]

It's not that uncommon especially if some of those classes had large class sizes. Professors have to keep track of hundreds of students in any given year, asking them to remember back 3 years is a daunting task. Some of the better professors will refuse to write a letter if they can't write a good one. This helps you out because a generic letter can be a kiss of death.

I doubt a generic one will be " a kiss of death". It just won't distinguish you as much as an applicant.

To be honest, most undergrad Professors write generic ones even if you're top of the class unless you have done research under them.

I went back to my research Professor since a gap and he gladly wrote me one...I just find it hard to believe that someone who has written a letter would refuse.

 

[startingover84]

I wish I could help. I'm e-mailing each school individually to ask about requirements (I graduated six years ago), and all I'm getting is answers that are clear as mud.

Which leads me to another question, how do you take one class and get a letter from that professor? Do I need to sit in the front and pay rapt attention? Do I need to attend every single office hour? I've never been to office hours; what do I do when I go?

 

[MedPR]

So I imagine I am not the only one in this boat, so I wanted to throw it out there and see if anyone has any advice, words of wisdom, or just wants to join in on the rant.

I have been 3 years out of my first undergraduate degree at a large university and I am 2 years out of a post-bacc degree. I am in that gray zone between trad and non-trad, schools I have talked to are very unwilling to waive the 3 academic letters requirement unless the applicant has been out 5+ years, but you know, of course they are willing to accept any other letters in supplement. So here I am, easily got 2 professional references, 1 volunteer, 1 prof I did research with in undergrad, and 1 prof from post-bacc. CANNOT GET A THIRD LETTER. I emailed one prof from undergrad who gave me a ref before for post-bacc but she balked because it had been 3 years. I emailed another 2 from post-bacc, one flat-out said no the other just didn't respond. Of course I still have a few I can try, it's just frustrating that after several years 1) med schools still expect as many academic references as a new graduate and 2) that the previous professors are so shocked and appalled someone they weren't super close to at the time wants to go back to school after being in the working world.

I'm just frustrated... I've never liked the idea of "academic references" in the first place because I feel academics is one place your ability speaks for itself (GPA, MCAT, writing ability). Of course I could take another course at a local school in time for this app cycle and I will if I have to, it just seems like such a dumb reason to delay submission.

Any other gray zoners out there? What did/are you do/doing?

Take classes this year, improve your application all around, and have the letter requirements for next cycle. That's what I would do. I wouldn't want to waste my money on a hunch that my LORs will be accepted in lieu of the "required" LORs.

 

[MedPR]

I wish I could help. I'm e-mailing each school individually to ask about requirements (I graduated six years ago), and all I'm getting is answers that are clear as mud.

Which leads me to another question, how do you take one class and get a letter from that professor? Do I need to sit in the front and pay rapt attention? Do I need to attend every single office hour? I've never been to office hours; what do I do when I go?

My gen chem professor wrote me a really awesome LOR (he sent me a copy) and I didn't do anything out of my way while I was in his class. It was a retake for me and even though I got a C the first time, a lot of the material was stuff I already had a decent idea about. I answered and asked questions in class and sometimes volunteered to do problems on the board (though not often). I was also always the first person to finish in lab, but if I had some time to kill between lab and when I had to be at work I would stay for a little while and help other students or ask the teacher questions about the lab or why we did something the way we did it. I was genuinely interested though, so it wasn't hard to think of stuff to ask/say.

I also stopped by his office pretty frequently to ask him MCAT stuff. I think you want to make yourself appear like a great student, but you also can benefit from befriending your teacher if he/she is open to the idea of talking to a student about stuff not related to class.

 

[startingover84]

My gen chem professor wrote me a really awesome LOR (he sent me a copy) and I didn't do anything out of my way while I was in his class. It was a retake for me and even though I got a C the first time, a lot of the material was stuff I already had a decent idea about. I answered and asked questions in class and sometimes volunteered to do problems on the board (though not often). I was also always the first person to finish in lab, but if I had some time to kill between lab and when I had to be at work I would stay for a little while and help other students or ask the teacher questions about the lab or why we did something the way we did it. I was genuinely interested though, so it wasn't hard to think of stuff to ask/say.

I also stopped by his office pretty frequently to ask him MCAT stuff. I think you want to make yourself appear like a great student, but you also can benefit from befriending your teacher if he/she is open to the idea of talking to a student about stuff not related to class.

Thanks for the tips. Sounds like you had a great experience. I just hate that I am taking a class with two goals: 1) get an A, raise my GPA and 2) get a LOR. It seems shady. But I guess a lot of people do it, and I know I'm not entitled to a LOR. I want school to start already.

 

[SrootsWwings]

During my final/graduating month at my undergrad school, I actually visited my genchem and orgo professors (so, at the time, I had taken their classes 1-2 years ago). I talked to them about my plans to go out into the non-institutional world and generally not do anything pre-professionally, but, that at some point, it was not inconceivable that I may later decide to apply to med school. Were I to do this, I said, would you consider writing me an LOR X years down the road?

Both their replies were that, yes, they would, but that they generally would want/need to do some "catching up" beforehand. I thought this was awesome at the time. Now, though, I feel afraid to contact them after so long, and imagine I will resort to that only if I don't see it happening with any of the post-bacc profs I am to meet in the coming year.

 

[Esquire]

.

 

[MedPR]

I doubt a generic one will be " a kiss of death". It just won't distinguish you as much as an applicant.

To be honest, most undergrad Professors write generic ones even if you're top of the class unless you have done research under them.

I went back to my research Professor since a gap and he gladly wrote me one...I just find it hard to believe that someone who has written a letter would refuse.

Really?

 

[charmedj7]

Thanks for all the replies! Yeah, I'm going to at least try for the other post-bacc profs and see if one is willing to do the generic letter thing. I figure I have 5 other much stronger references and most schools said they would accept professional references on top of the academic but wouldn't fully waive the 3 academic requirement. It's not ideal, but delaying a whole year to take classes solely for the purpose of sucking up to get references seems like a waste of time since all my pre-reqs were done as part of my undergrad. Unless I can't get in at all this cycle, in which case it could be an option...

I guess I have to think that it might be ok even without all the pieces of the application being totally stellar, few people are the total package.

Incidentally, for the one who didn't quite believe the story, the LOR sticky in the general pre-med board is full of similar. Not sure if that makes me feel better or worse