lost hope *unofficially*

[amikhchi]

ok so i've been absent from these forums for a LONG time... but basically here's my situation

science/cum gpa (pretty much same): 3.47 (a bit low)
mcat: 11 8 12 P (aug 20th 2007)

E/C: about 300 hrs worth of basic volunteer at a rehab/education center and some clinical at family doctor's office. about a year of roughly 4 hours a week (during school) research with genetics professor.
a few random single-day volunteer things (i.e. helping homeless, habitat for humanity, etc.)

graduated may '08 with bio degree from a cal-state (CSUN) (california resident btw)

LoRs: 1 from anatomy instructor, 1 from ochem instructor, 1 from genetics instructor, 1 from premed advisor, and 1 from volunteer coordinator at the rehab/edu center


last cycle, i applied but didn't submit and finish everything until after i took mcat, even then i had to wait for scores so everyone told me i applied VERY late becuase i was complete towards the end of october... I applied to about 25 schools, 2ndaries to like 15 and i got rejections slowly but surely to each one (no interviews)

this cycle i had just graduated and i applied june 5th, my app was verified and transcripts were in by end of june and most (if not all) 2ndaries were completed before end of july (including LoRs being received/logged) I have since recieved a few rejections pre-2ndary and a few post, but i have still not recieved a single interview from any schools... I admit i applied to some schools that are out of my range (so-to-speak) but I mostly kept it within schools that are close to my stats(as far as 09 MSAR was concerned)

i applied to SGU in october (this past october) after not hearing anything from any schools and I got an interview which i am going to go to

and i'm really torn, i feel like i did everything right this cycle and still not a single word from any schools. I want to start medical school, but I would very much prefer to stay in the US (i've explored the thought of DO, but atm I have decided not to)
it's very discouraging becuase i've considered studying for another 6 mo and retaking the MCAT becuase my only conclusion is that the 8 in VR (worst subject) is keeping me out...

i dont' think i came here for answers, probably just to vent... anyone in a similar situation that can shed some light? maybe give me some hope...

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[BrokenGlass]

ok so i've been absent from these forums for a LONG time... but basically here's my situation

science/cum gpa (pretty much same): 3.47 (a bit low)
mcat: 11 8 12 P (aug 20th 2007)

E/C: about 300 hrs worth of basic volunteer at a rehab/education center and some clinical at family doctor's office. about a year of roughly 4 hours a week (during school) research with genetics professor.
a few random single-day volunteer things (i.e. helping homeless, habitat for humanity, etc.)

graduated may '08 with bio degree from a cal-state (CSUN) (california resident btw)

LoRs: 1 from anatomy instructor, 1 from ochem instructor, 1 from genetics instructor, 1 from premed advisor, and 1 from volunteer coordinator at the rehab/edu center


last cycle, i applied but didn't submit and finish everything until after i took mcat, even then i had to wait for scores so everyone told me i applied VERY late becuase i was complete towards the end of october... I applied to about 25 schools, 2ndaries to like 15 and i got rejections slowly but surely to each one (no interviews)

this cycle i had just graduated and i applied june 5th, my app was verified and transcripts were in by end of june and most (if not all) 2ndaries were completed before end of july (including LoRs being received/logged) I have since recieved a few rejections pre-2ndary and a few post, but i have still not recieved a single interview from any schools... I admit i applied to some schools that are out of my range (so-to-speak) but I mostly kept it within schools that are close to my stats(as far as 09 MSAR was concerned)

i applied to SGU in october (this past october) after not hearing anything from any schools and I got an interview which i am going to go to

and i'm really torn, i feel like i did everything right this cycle and still not a single word from any schools. I want to start medical school, but I would very much prefer to stay in the US (i've explored the thought of DO, but atm I have decided not to)
it's very discouraging becuase i've considered studying for another 6 mo and retaking the MCAT becuase my only conclusion is that the 8 in VR (worst subject) is keeping me out...

i dont' think i came here for answers, probably just to vent... anyone in a similar situation that can shed some light? maybe give me some hope...

I feel your pain bro, but the 8 in VR is not the reason why you are not having much luck. I know a guy who got into UCSF and UCLA last year and he had an 8 in VR. He was very strong otherwise though (13+ on both science sections, 3.9+ GPA, lots of research and volunteering).

If you think you can improve all your MCAT sections, not just VR then it's probably worth retaking it, but don't retake just to improve your VR.

Good luck.

 

[zenlike]

(i've explored the thought of DO, but atm I have decided not to)

That kind of says to me that you don't really want to be a physician or that your motives are wrong. Perhaps that bled through on your PS or secondary essays.

 

[amikhchi]

well with all due respect you don't really know me, and if you want a reason as to why i didn't apply DO it's mainly because as of last cycle i was told by everyone (even people on these forums) that the most probable and likely reason for not getting interviews was a late application... with that in mind I honestly thought that applying 2nd day of apps (given that I felt this way becuase of all the reassurance I got from med school friends, graduates, and fellow SDNers) should all but guarantee me a better result this time around... sure looking back (which is always easy to say) i should've applied both to keep my options open... but looking back won't really help me at this point

 

[StPlayrXtreme]

I doubt the 8 in verbal is totally holding you back!

Did you have someone read your personal statement before you submitted? Were your recommendations from someone that knew you well?

Numbers are just a small part of the application. Your GPA and MCAT should be getting you interviews, which makes me think something else has gone awry in your application.

 

[amikhchi]

I had several people read and help me revise my statement

my LoRs were all from teachers that knew me and liked me

i know numbers aren't everything (and even so, not like mine are the greatest, but they're not horrible either)

 

[zenlike]

well with all due respect you don't really know me, and if you want a reason as to why i didn't apply DO it's mainly because as of last cycle i was told by everyone (even people on these forums) that the most probable and likely reason for not getting interviews was a late application... with that in mind I honestly thought that applying 2nd day of apps (given that I felt this way becuase of all the reassurance I got from med school friends, graduates, and fellow SDNers) should all but guarantee me a better result this time around... sure looking back (which is always easy to say) i should've applied both to keep my options open... but looking back won't really help me at this point

Fair enough. There's still plenty of time to apply DO.

 

[amikhchi]

I haven't done much research as far as deadlines and admission calendars for DO, i just assumed that they go on the same basic timetable as allo schools (correct me if i'm wrong though, because i was just assuming)... with that in mind if i choose to wait and re-apply again I will take the MCAT again and also apply to both MD/DO

 

[Bacchus]

SDN Tips

1) Apply early
2) Apply broadly
3) If your stats are average consider DO medical schools

 

[Bacchus]

You could still apply DO now and save yourself some money. Only 2 deadlines have passed: MSU which you shouldn't go to if you don't live instate ($$$$$$) and TCOM which is a Texas school and I believe uses the Texan App Service. Deadlines here:
http://www.aacom.org/people/colleges/Pages/AppsDue.aspx

What schools did you apply to, btw?

 

[amikhchi]

Albany Medical College Regular M.D.
Boston University School of Medicine Regular M.D.
Creighton University School of Medicine Regular M.D.
David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA Regular M.D.
Drexel University College of Medicine Regular M.D.
Eastern Virginia Medical School Regular M.D.
George Washington University Sch of Med & Hlth Sci Regular M.D.
Georgetown University School of Medicine Regular M.D.
Indiana University School of Medicine Regular M.D.
Jefferson Medical Coll. of Thomas Jefferson Univ. Regular M.D.
Keck Sch. of Med.University of Southern California Regular M.D.
Loyola University Chicago Stritch School of Medici Regular M.D.
Medical College of Wisconsin Regular M.D.
Michigan State University Regular M.D.
New York Medical College Regular M.D.
Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine Regular M.D.
Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Scien Regular M.D.
Saint Louis University School of Medicine Regular M.D.
The University of Miami School of Medicine Regular M.D.
The University of Oklahoma Regular M.D.
The University of Toledo College of Medicine Regular M.D.​

The University of Vermont College of Medicine

Tulane University School of Medicine Regular M.D.
University of California San Diego Regular M.D.
University of California, Davis School of Medicine Regular M.D.
University of California, Irvine- College/Medicine Regular M.D.
University of Iowa, Carver College of Medicine Regular M.D.
University of Kentucky College of Medicine Regular M.D.
University of Louisville School of Medicine Regular M.D.
Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicin Regular M.D.​

Wayne State University School of Medicine

 

[Bacchus]

You more than likely will not here from any California schools even though you are a native because of your GPA. Pennstate and Jefferson might not work out either. Jefferson seems to be slow with some applications. PSU put me on hold with similar stats (my MCAT was lower, but more balanced) but I have more ECs.

You did apply broadly. Sometimes things just work out like this, unfortunately.

 

[Dissected]

Well, you are going to get in somewhere eventually be it DO or MD... Im pretty surprised you haven't gotten any interviews, that is somewhat baffling. I personally wouldn't apply DO now, especially since it takes so effin long to get verified..but on the other hand you could have a decent shot. tough luck man, I would apply DO/MD next cycle unless you get a way better MCAT and aren't really feeling the DO route, for whatever reason. If you still don't get in...I think DO is calling

Good luck, hang in there

 

[tacrum43]

Hey OP,

Your application reminds me of mine, except that your numbers are a smidge better. I did the Georgetown SMP, and I think that helped me to get in.

But yeah, being from CA sucks unless your numbers are great, and schools look down on the CSUs anyway, even the UC med schools.


Some options:

You can still apply to DO schools this year as the deadline hasn't passed for a lot of schools, but this might be difficult without planning as most require a letter of rec from a DO.

I'm sure you'll easily get into SGU, but do you want to go down that road? The residency application process is hard for FMGs in most specialties.

You can establish residency in an easier state and then apply for state schools there (like TX or OH, also NJ is apparently really easy to get residency in), but that would take a long time and you'd have to move.

You can apply for an SMP type program, then apply to MD and DO schools next year.

Who knows, maybe you'll still get in this year. Be sure to update schools and let them know you're interested. Most won't care, a few might.

 

[OncoCaP]

Apply DO. I think there is also a reapplicant forum; you'll want to explore that if you haven't already. I haven't looked at your profile, but consider taking additional classes to get your GPA stats up. If you think it would help, figure out how to get your MCAT up with various review classes/books but don't even think of retaking it until & if you are sure you will improve your score significantly. Add some EC's if you find something that would look good. Hang in there.

 

[ar2388]

have you considered maybe contacting the schools that rejected you already and asking why? orhow you may improve your app? also, maybe talk to your premed adviser? was it a committee? if so, tmaybe they can at least tell you if it was something about your LOR's... i would probably restudy for the MCAT.. put it up to at least 10+ ine verysection for a nice balanced school.. keep volunteering and give it another shot..
this must suck for you and I am terribly sorry, btu I hope you won't give up if this is what you really want to do..

 

[p30doc]

You can still apply to DO schools this year as the deadline hasn't passed for a lot of schools, but this might be difficult without planning as most require a letter of rec from a DO.

Most do NOT require a letter from a DO. A lot of DO schools require a LOR from a physician(MD or DO). I used my MD letter for my DO apps. I never even shadowed a DO. I have 4 DO acceptances right now. Save yourself the time and money that another cycle would require, give DO a shot. After all a doctor is a doctor is a doctor.

 

[psy]

I applied to DO schools late and I still got accepted. I don't see why you can't do the same. And like redrumi said, you don't need to shadow a DO or have a LOR from a DO. Your low VR score may be due to how you are reading the passages. I had an 8 in VR but changed it to 11 on the retake after changing how I read and what information I was trying to get out of those passages. I didn't look for facts. I looked for why the author wrote the article and his/her personality/biases/etc... as seen from the way the passage was written.

 

[tacrum43]

Most do NOT require a letter from a DO. A lot of DO schools require a LOR from a physician(MD or DO). I used my MD letter for my DO apps. I never even shadowed a DO. I have 4 DO acceptances right now. Save yourself the time and money that another cycle would require, give DO a shot. After all a doctor is a doctor is a doctor.

Ah well, my bad, the OP would need an MD or a DO letter. Allopathic schools don't require either, IIRC.

 

[thewendster]

Hey, I just finished my last semester of a post bac at CSUN. I also have an 8 in VR and I also waited to apply until after I received my score.. wasn't complete until September for most schools. I really want to be a doctor and I did include a DO school on my list and did get invited for an interview there.. but guess what? I also got an invite to UCLA and interviewed there a few weeks ago..

So as far as pure numbers go, you're MCAT is higher than mine so that shouldn't be the glass ceiling for you. Sometimes with numerically middle of the road applicants like us, it is the rest of the application that can really make us stand out. I graduated 4 years ago with a BFA in documentaries/filmmaking. I worked on a United Nations documentary for about 6 months where we actually interviewed 1/3 of the US ambassadors... I started my own successful company, went on to be a video producer for a large international company.. When I returned to school for a post bac, I worked as an EMT, did research (and co-authored a lab manual), and became president of a club that was just awarded a large grant to help students do outreach in under-served communities.

My point here is that it is about the numbers... but then it's about a lot of other things too. So what I'm wondering is, how did you sell yourself in your PS and secondaries? There are thousands of qualified people applying and if your stats are so-so, then I think you must go out of your way to show you are an outstanding, compelling person with something unique to offer.

 

[thewendster]

also wanted to add, if you haven't noticed already.. that on SDN if you say you really want to be a doctor.. but then aren't willing to consider DO (for whatever reason), you won't get the most sympathetic ears...

 

[Bacchus]

Your ECs are a bit better than the OPs. And by a bit, I mean 100fold.

 

[fizzle]

also wanted to add, if you haven't noticed already.. that on SDN if you say you really want to be a doctor.. but then aren't willing to consider DO (for whatever reason), you won't get the most sympathetic ears...

I don't get why. The two paths aren't really the same; the MD places quite a bit more emphasis on the research aspect of medicine, while the DO focuses more on just the patient care, if I understand correctly. Unless we can claim to understand the OP's motivation for going into medicine, we can't push that advice further than simply notifying the OP that the option exists.

 

[Lukkie]

I worked on a United Nations documentary for about 6 months where we actually interviewed 1/3 of the US ambassadors... I started my own successful company, went on to be a video producer for a large international company.. When I returned to school for a post bac, I worked as an EMT, did research (and co-authored a lab manual), and became president of a club that was just awarded a large grant to help students do outreach in under-served communities.

i think you're in the top 1% for ECs

nice to see UCLA gave you an interview. hope you get in!

 

[psy]

I don't get why. The two paths aren't really the same; the MD places quite a bit more emphasis on the research aspect of medicine, while the DO focuses more on just the patient care, if I understand correctly. Unless we can claim to understand the OP's motivation for going into medicine, we can't push that advice further than simply notifying the OP that the option exists.

If he wanted to do research he should apply to DO schools with research. Yep...they do exist. There are even DO/PhD programs. Or if he really wish to do research as a career he can do a PhD and possibly get paid to go to school.

 

[suwaifo]

I think the first thing that everyone gets wrong is interpreting the title of this forum. It's called Pre-Allopathic, not Pre-Osteopathic.

It's like going to Del Taco for their hamburgers.

On another note, do people ever go to Pre-Osteopathic and tell them to apply MD?

 

[fizzle]

*edit*
On second thought, I don't feel like starting a whole different topic in this thread, so I'll delete this post

 

[Bacchus]

I think the first thing that everyone gets wrong is interpreting the title of this forum. It's called Pre-Allopathic, not Pre-Osteopathic.

It's like going to Del Taco for their hamburgers.

On another note, do people ever go to Pre-Osteopathic and tell them to apply MD?

If he's not getting love from allo schools he may get love from DO schools. This advice is good advice because one will become a physician either way.

The reason there are no GO MD threads in pre-osteo is that those people are applying osteopathic and except for the rarer occasions, realize they must apply DO if they want to get in.

 

[Bacchus]

I don't get why. The two paths aren't really the same; the MD places quite a bit more emphasis on the research aspect of medicine, while the DO focuses more on just the patient care, if I understand correctly. Unless we can claim to understand the OP's motivation for going into medicine, we can't push that advice further than simply notifying the OP that the option exists.

Both types of schools will allow you to pursue research. There are allopathic and osteopathic schools that are traditionally clinician oriented schools and then schools that are physician-scientist oriented schools.

 

[fizzle]

Both types of schools will allow you to pursue research. There are allopathic and osteopathic schools that are traditionally clinician oriented schools and then schools that are physician-scientist oriented schools.

Out of curiosity, what exactly is the difference between the two degrees? Are they the exact same for all intents and purposes?

 

[Dissected]

I don't get why. The two paths aren't really the same; the MD places quite a bit more emphasis on the research aspect of medicine, while the DO focuses more on just the patient care, if I understand correctly. Unless we can claim to understand the OP's motivation for going into medicine, we can't push that advice further than simply notifying the OP that the option exists.

physician = physician. spend some time in a hospital.

 

[amikhchi]

As far as i know the only difference (which are all not really important to me) is a "DO" instead of "MD", barely limited international recognition (from what i know, not many places would not license a DO), and OMM... i don't think there are others (correct me if i'm wrong)

okay so i filled out the entire aacomas app, like i said, 1st time around, i didn't even know what i was doing and applied super late and didn't really know anythign about DOs... 2nd time around, i was confident (shouldn't have been so cocky i guess) that i would get in somewhere so i neglected the DO option, but apparently there is still a chance for 2nd time around to squeeze the DO in there...

so I'm sure i should be posting this in the pre-osteo forums but since i already started the thread here i suppose it's okay to do so...

i don't have much information about requirements and statistics as far as DO schools go aside from what i find online, based on your knowledge (if you happen to know) where should i apply (given my stats, and the fact that i'm applying late)... or should i just not bother and wait till next cycle?

 

[fizzle]

I see...

 

[Dissected]

Oh sorry, but could you explain to me what a "hospital" is? I'm a bit lost here

Seriously, though, why are you being so defensive? I know next to nothing about the DO pathway besides that it focuses on the holistic treatment of the patient and all in contrast to the MD's research orientation, and I'd like to learn more about it. That is all.

sorry bout that, I appoligize. The internet does wonders at making tensions rise, sentiment is not conveyed very well in text form . umm, well I dont want to get this thread too off topic, nor do I want to start a never ending DO/MD argument...this is in the pre-osteo forum, its a start. if you PM me Ill give you my take on it

 

[fizzle]

sorry bout that, I appoligize. The internet does wonders at making tensions rise, sentiment is not conveyed very well in text form . umm, well I dont want to get this thread too off topic, nor do I want to start a never ending DO/MD argument...this is in the pre-osteo forum, its a start. if you PM me Ill give you my take on it

I'll apologize too for trying to even take the matter further; I actually didn't realize until I clicked on that link in your post that there is supposedly "bashing" between MDs and DOs. I guess my previous post could have been construed as contentious in that light...

 

[JeetKuneDo]

ok so i've been absent from these forums for a LONG time... but basically here's my situation

science/cum gpa (pretty much same): 3.47 (a bit low)
mcat: 11 8 12 P (aug 20th 2007)

E/C: about 300 hrs worth of basic volunteer at a rehab/education center and some clinical at family doctor's office. about a year of roughly 4 hours a week (during school) research with genetics professor.
a few random single-day volunteer things (i.e. helping homeless, habitat for humanity, etc.)

graduated may '08 with bio degree from a cal-state (CSUN) (california resident btw)

LoRs: 1 from anatomy instructor, 1 from ochem instructor, 1 from genetics instructor, 1 from premed advisor, and 1 from volunteer coordinator at the rehab/edu center


last cycle, i applied but didn't submit and finish everything until after i took mcat, even then i had to wait for scores so everyone told me i applied VERY late becuase i was complete towards the end of october... I applied to about 25 schools, 2ndaries to like 15 and i got rejections slowly but surely to each one (no interviews)

this cycle i had just graduated and i applied june 5th, my app was verified and transcripts were in by end of june and most (if not all) 2ndaries were completed before end of july (including LoRs being received/logged) I have since recieved a few rejections pre-2ndary and a few post, but i have still not recieved a single interview from any schools... I admit i applied to some schools that are out of my range (so-to-speak) but I mostly kept it within schools that are close to my stats(as far as 09 MSAR was concerned)

i applied to SGU in october (this past october) after not hearing anything from any schools and I got an interview which i am going to go to

and i'm really torn, i feel like i did everything right this cycle and still not a single word from any schools. I want to start medical school, but I would very much prefer to stay in the US (i've explored the thought of DO, but atm I have decided not to)
it's very discouraging becuase i've considered studying for another 6 mo and retaking the MCAT becuase my only conclusion is that the 8 in VR (worst subject) is keeping me out...

i dont' think i came here for answers, probably just to vent... anyone in a similar situation that can shed some light? maybe give me some hope...

Is time an issue for you? I haven't read the previous posts, but you could try doing some post bacc work for a year or so to raise your gpa to an even 3.5 or maybe a little higher. Maybe even an SMP? But I guess either route, you would have to retake the MCAT since it'll be past 3 years.

 

[thewendster]

http://www.aacom.org/resources/bookstore/cib/Documents/cib2009/2009_CIB_web.pdf

Hey, here's the info on schools, deadlines, etc. to help you out If you look at page 23 you will see that a lot of the deadlines are in March....

 

[suwaifo]

If he's not getting love from allo schools he may get love from DO schools. This advice is good advice because one will become a physician either way.

The reason there are no GO MD threads in pre-osteo is that those people are applying osteopathic and except for the rarer occasions, realize they must apply DO if they want to get in.

That is bad advice for someone who wants an MD degree. Some people just want to be physicians. Some people just want an MD degree for kicks. Not everyone has the same goals. One will not get an MD degree either way nor will one get a DO degree by going for an MD school.

 

[Bacchus]

That is bad advice for someone who wants an MD degree. Some people just want to be physicians. Some people just want an MD degree for kicks. Not everyone has the same goals. One will not get an MD degree either way nor will one get a DO degree by going for an MD school.

I'd assume people wouldn't have their noses in the clouds and would want to become a physician. If the OP wants to be an MD and not a "physician" then he or she can disregard my advice.

 

[alwaysaangel]

science/cum gpa (pretty much same): 3.47 (a bit low)
mcat: 11 8 12 P (aug 20th 2007)

If you really didn't want to go to the Caribbean you could do a post-bac could help you raise both the MCAT and gpa. Or as others have said - try DO its not necessarily too late.

E/C: about 300 hrs worth of basic volunteer at a rehab/education center and some clinical at family doctor's office. about a year of roughly 4 hours a week (during school) research with genetics professor.
a few random single-day volunteer things (i.e. helping homeless, habitat for humanity, etc.)

You're pretty light on extracurriculars - if you decide to reapply or want to try to improve your options this year try to get into some stuff NOW and send an update letter. This would be fine with better numbers - but with average or below average numbers you really need some ECs that make you stand out and yours really don't.

LoRs: 1 from anatomy instructor, 1 from ochem instructor, 1 from genetics instructor, 1 from premed advisor, and 1 from volunteer coordinator at the rehab/edu center

This stood out to me - a good number of schools in the US require a non-science professor letter. You don't have that which could be something thats causing a problem in your applications.

and i'm really torn, i feel like i did everything right this cycle and still not a single word from any schools. I want to start medical school, but I would very much prefer to stay in the US (i've explored the thought of DO, but atm I have decided not to)
it's very discouraging becuase i've considered studying for another 6 mo and retaking the MCAT becuase my only conclusion is that the 8 in VR (worst subject) is keeping me out...

As I said above - there are a couple of issues with your application - alone schools would over look them but the combination of all 4 things is probably holding you back. If you really want to stay in the US I would apply to a post-bac. They will help you retake the MCAt and let you take some additional classes to improve your GPA. WHile you're doing that you can get involved in some more activities adn improve those ECs and find a non-science LOR.

Good luck!

 

[diosa428]

I don't get why. The two paths aren't really the same; the MD places quite a bit more emphasis on the research aspect of medicine, while the DO focuses more on just the patient care, if I understand correctly. Unless we can claim to understand the OP's motivation for going into medicine, we can't push that advice further than simply notifying the OP that the option exists.

I'm not sure if your question has been answered or not, but that statement is completely incorrect. MD and DO focus equally on patient care; the only difference is that OMM (osteopathic manipulative medicine) is taught in the DO curriculum. OMM (per wikipedia) is "an approach to manual therapy, a form of therapy that uses physical contact, used to improve the impaired or altered function of the musculo-skeletal system".

You will find MD schools that are more research-oriented, and those that stress primary care and community medicine (usually, although not always, state schools tend to stress primary care and private schools stress research), however research and primary care opportunities are present at all allopathic medical schools. I would imagine DO schools are similar.

 

[amikhchi]

thanks for the comments and suggestions, i must clarify that i did not NOT apply DO because i wanted an MD, i did so because i was told by everyone i talked to that I should definitely get some interviews if I applied early (of course thats not the only thing i changed when i reapplied). That being said i obviously learned the tough way that i shouldn't take what other people say so seriously or maybe i'm just unlucky, or I'm just a bit lacking in each part of my app as was stated above... either way i applied DO (hopefully not too late) and i'm going to retake the MCAT and I'm almost positive I will be able to improve my score (especially verbal)... and if I can improve my score up to a 36+ I plan on reapplying (3rd time's a charm?), of course reapplying would leave with me another year to tack on some more ECs... In that case I would probably go back to school and take some more classes to help boost my GPA, also thought of going through some EMT courses and maybe work as an EMT during the off-time

thoughts?

 

[Excelsius]

thanks for the comments and suggestions, i must clarify that i did not NOT apply DO because i wanted an MD, i did so because i was told by everyone i talked to that I should definitely get some interviews if I applied early (of course thats not the only thing i changed when i reapplied). That being said i obviously learned the tough way that i shouldn't take what other people say so seriously or maybe i'm just unlucky, or I'm just a bit lacking in each part of my app as was stated above... either way i applied DO (hopefully not too late) and i'm going to retake the MCAT and I'm almost positive I will be able to improve my score (especially verbal)... and if I can improve my score up to a 36+ I plan on reapplying (3rd time's a charm?), of course reapplying would leave with me another year to tack on some more ECs... In that case I would probably go back to school and take some more classes to help boost my GPA, also thought of going through some EMT courses and maybe work as an EMT during the off-time

thoughts?

If you are planning to go into any field other than primary care, especially the competitive specialties, it is going to be harder to match into residencies through DO school, but not impossible. I don't think this matters to you at this point.

Your stats are not bad. Nor did you apply to few schools. Being from CA myself and knowing about CSUN, I think I know a possible problem you may have: besides being light on ECs, your school is really not the best trampoline for medical school. When I was deciding where to transfer, I went and talked to all the schools in my area, including the CalState. The consensus was that CSU is really not highly regarded by any of the med schools within CA. You can ask your own premed advisor and see what she says. Many med schools outside of CA have not even heard of CSU. It also doesn't help that CSUN is one of the lower ranking schools within the CSU system.

Your other problem is that you're not a minority. Usually CSUs are considered to be OK if you're a minority since med schools seem to diversify their class knowing that those who are underprivileged go to CSU because of the cheaper price. Regular applicants coming out of CSU often have higher than average marks in one of the areas of their application before they are accepted to med school. If you combine stellar stats with minority status, you get places like UCSF accepting you from a CSU. Also, your problem may be compounded if you are a Persian because of possible discrimination issues based on ethnicity.

Finally, give it more time. Wait at least until January 21 before you lose hope. That's the last date many schools send out interviews. Still, if you don't hear from some schools by then, there is a possibility of a later interview. There are some people who have been accepted just a few weeks before the med school class started - at the end of summer.

If you end up not getting in, I think it would be better if you did post-bacc and tried to raise your GPA and also work on your verbal section. I am sure you can get it up at least by a point to make it 9. Strengthen your ECs by trying to get some leadership experience and research. After that, apply to around 40 schools. If you still don't get in, then your only other allopathic option would be an SMP.

Think very carefully before you go to the Caribbean. The attrition rates there are atrocious. More than half never make it and those that do make it often find it hard to get a good residency spot (and it is going to get only harder).

 

[amikhchi]

i'm just curious, how did you know i was persian? or did you just assume lol...
as for going to CSUN, it was cheaper and closer to home which was important, I did not think when i originally went there that it would later bite me in the @ss... but i guess making mistakes is a part of life (but then again, I wouldn't really call that a mistake)

but I've applied to several DO schools, most of which were recommended by people from the pre-osteo forums (thanks, by the way) and I still have 9 secondaries floating out there in neverneverland and i'll keep the hope for as long as i can, but as for my current plan it's to just hope for the best but plan for the worst...

 

[diosa428]

If you are planning to go into any field other than primary care, especially the competitive specialties, it is going to be harder to match into residencies through DO school, but not impossible. I don't think this matters to you at this point.

Don't forget that DOs have their own residencies which MD students cannot apply to. So if you want a competitive specialty, you might not be able to get an MD spot, but you could still get a DO spot. I think that there are less spots in competitive specialties, but there are also fewer DO schools and therefore fewer DO students.

 

[Bacchus]

If you are planning to go into any field other than primary care, especially the competitive specialties, it is going to be harder to match into residencies through DO school, but not impossible. I don't think this matters to you at this point.

This is too black and white. For those residencies that have very few spots, it is extremely difficult to match. However, almost every specialty type in the ACGME residency world is matched in the AOA residency world. Being a DO is not going to hamper but a few that are looking for the most competitive specialties.

Your stats are not bad. Nor did you apply to few schools. Being from CA myself and knowing about CSUN, I think I know a possible problem you may have: besides being light on ECs, your school is really not the best trampoline for medical school. When I was deciding where to transfer, I went and talked to all the schools in my area, including the CalState. The consensus was that CSU is really not highly regarded by any of the med schools within CA. You can ask your own premed advisor and see what she says. Many med schools outside of CA have not even heard of CSU. It also doesn't help that CSUN is one of the lower ranking schools within the CSU system.

This may have been the only feasible school for the OP to go to. I don't know much about the California schools but I doubt this was the crux of the problem. Lack of ECs and a lower GPA did more harm than going to this school.

Your other problem is that you're not a minority. Usually CSUs are considered to be OK if you're a minority since med schools seem to diversify their class knowing that those who are underprivileged go to CSU because of the cheaper price. Regular applicants coming out of CSU often have higher than average marks in one of the areas of their application before they are accepted to med school. If you combine stellar stats with minority status, you get places like UCSF accepting you from a CSU. Also, your problem may be compounded if you are a Persian because of possible discrimination issues based on ethnicity.

Are you serious? You're saying here, "its fine for minorities to do poorly, med schools expect it." Additionally, like I said before it may have been the only viable option for the OP at the time. Skin color does not equal brain power. This may not have been what you meant, but it definitely comes off that way, imo.

Finally, give it more time. Wait at least until January 21 before you lose hope. That's the last date many schools send out interviews. Still, if you don't hear from some schools by then, there is a possibility of a later interview. There are some people who have been accepted just a few weeks before the med school class started - at the end of summer.

Agree

If you end up not getting in, I think it would be better if you did post-bacc and tried to raise your GPA and also work on your verbal section. I am sure you can get it up at least by a point to make it 9. Strengthen your ECs by trying to get some leadership experience and research. After that, apply to around 40 schools. If you still don't get in, then your only other allopathic option would be an SMP.

I would just continue taking classes. SMPs are usually done by those that have lower stats than the OP. Also, hardly anyone applies to 40 schools.

Think very carefully before you go to the Caribbean. The attrition rates there are atrocious. More than half never make it and those that do make it often find it hard to get a good residency spot (and it is going to get only harder).

Yes.

 

[njbmd]

ok so i've been absent from these forums for a LONG time... but basically here's my situation

science/cum gpa (pretty much same): 3.47 (a bit low)
mcat: 11 8 12 P (aug 20th 2007)

E/C: about 300 hrs worth of basic volunteer at a rehab/education center and some clinical at family doctor's office. about a year of roughly 4 hours a week (during school) research with genetics professor.
a few random single-day volunteer things (i.e. helping homeless, habitat for humanity, etc.)

graduated may '08 with bio degree from a cal-state (CSUN) (california resident btw)

LoRs: 1 from anatomy instructor, 1 from ochem instructor, 1 from genetics instructor, 1 from premed advisor, and 1 from volunteer coordinator at the rehab/edu center


last cycle, i applied but didn't submit and finish everything until after i took mcat, even then i had to wait for scores so everyone told me i applied VERY late becuase i was complete towards the end of october... I applied to about 25 schools, 2ndaries to like 15 and i got rejections slowly but surely to each one (no interviews)

this cycle i had just graduated and i applied june 5th, my app was verified and transcripts were in by end of june and most (if not all) 2ndaries were completed before end of july (including LoRs being received/logged) I have since recieved a few rejections pre-2ndary and a few post, but i have still not recieved a single interview from any schools... I admit i applied to some schools that are out of my range (so-to-speak) but I mostly kept it within schools that are close to my stats(as far as 09 MSAR was concerned)

i applied to SGU in october (this past october) after not hearing anything from any schools and I got an interview which i am going to go to

and i'm really torn, i feel like i did everything right this cycle and still not a single word from any schools. I want to start medical school, but I would very much prefer to stay in the US (i've explored the thought of DO, but atm I have decided not to)
it's very discouraging becuase i've considered studying for another 6 mo and retaking the MCAT becuase my only conclusion is that the 8 in VR (worst subject) is keeping me out...

i dont' think i came here for answers, probably just to vent... anyone in a similar situation that can shed some light? maybe give me some hope...

It makes sense to have a Plan B at this point and it looks like offshore is your Plan B. Based on the applications that have come across my desk at the two schools that I serve on the admissions committee, you are well below (in terms of MCAT/uGPA) what we are seeing in our applicants and would be placed in the pre-interview hold category at this point in our cycle.

If you applied early, the season is going to be long but at this point, it's about at the mid-point. Unless you are sitting on rejections from every school that you applied to, then the season is not over for you. There will be plenty of action and acceptances after the first of the year. Those schools that you haven't heard from may still send out something.

If you have evaluated the implications of going offshore and are happy with what you see, then I certainly hope that offshore works out for you. My guess is that your uGPA coupled with your MCAT has put you at a disadvantage in terms of what's going on this year. You are in competition within the pool of people who applied to the same schools that you applied to (previous years do not necessarily predict the current year). I know that uGPA/MCAT scores that would have been competitive last year are not competitive this year for my schools.

You do what you have to do for yourself but if offshore doesn't work out, my first steps would be to do some post bacc and get that uGPA up. I think that it's killing you more than your MCAT. If you do decide to re-take the MCAT, you need to be SURE that your scores are higher (a re-take with a lower or the same score might be the end for you). Even a 37+ isn't going to offset that low uGPA.

 

[fahimaz7]

and i'm really torn, i feel like i did everything right this cycle and still not a single word from any schools. I want to start medical school, but I would very much prefer to stay in the US (i've explored the thought of DO, but atm I have decided not to)

it's very discouraging becuase i've considered studying for another 6 mo and retaking the MCAT becuase my only conclusion is that the 8 in VR (worst subject) is keeping me out...

You do realize that it's December 15th and not March 15.....

There's >3 months of interviewing left and you're already freaking out.

 

[Excelsius]

This is too black and white. For those residencies that have very few spots, it is extremely difficult to match. However, almost every specialty type in the ACGME residency world is matched in the AOA residency world. Being a DO is not going to hamper but a few that are looking for the most competitive specialties.


This may have been the only feasible school for the OP to go to. I don't know much about the California schools but I doubt this was the crux of the problem. Lack of ECs and a lower GPA did more harm than going to this school.


Are you serious? You're saying here, "its fine for minorities to do poorly, med schools expect it." Additionally, like I said before it may have been the only viable option for the OP at the time. Skin color does not equal brain power. This may not have been what you meant, but it definitely comes off that way, imo.


Agree


I would just continue taking classes. SMPs are usually done by those that have lower stats than the OP. Also, hardly anyone applies to 40 schools.


Yes.

I already said, it is not impossible to get the residency you want via DO, it's just going to be harder. It will also become much harder in about five to ten years unless DO schools make a massive effort to open a lot of non-primary care residency spots, which is really not the function of DO. You can read other threads about this as it is irrelevant for this case. DO>Carib

If the OP had to go to CSU because of his financial situation, I would suggest that he mention in his PS his financial hardships and how it may have challenged his education. UC system offers great financial packages and not being from a wealthy family myself, I know that almost anyone who wants to, can go to UC, including commute there.

Why are people so touchy about every little comment about minorities? No, I did not say or imply anything close to that you said. What I said was that minorities who attend CSU are viewed much more positively than non-minorities because it is assumed that minorities often have a lot of hardships and really cannot afford any other school. As for discrimination for some ethnicities, that's not up to me. You should complain to med schools. Sure, if you have stellar stats, then discrimination won't matter. But when you're below average and there are plenty of other average choices, discrimination will be a bigger factor. There is no point in discussing this. Everyone is entitled to believe what he or she wants to believe.

It doesn't matter that few people apply to 40 schools. If you play your cards right, applying to 40 schools or more can increase your probability of getting accepted by over 10-20%. I did some sample probability calculations in other threads, which you might have seen. I would apply to 70 schools any day over choosing a Caribbean or having to do an expensive SMP. I agree that the OP should not have to do an SMP with his stats, but obviously he is having a tough time getting in due to reasons we don't know for sure (and I gave some possible reasons). An SMP will help even with his stats because it can make a difference between getting in and not getting in. There are people with higher stats than him who do SMP.

Finally, I am almost confident that the OP can get into a DO school. If he decides to go that route, he can retake some of his classes and significantly raise his GPA (not that it's too low for DO). Remember that DOs actually REPLACE your grades instead of averaging them like MD schools do. He has a lot of options and the Caribbean should really not be on his mind.

 

[Excelsius]

i'm just curious, how did you know i was persian? or did you just assume lol...
as for going to CSUN, it was cheaper and closer to home which was important, I did not think when i originally went there that it would later bite me in the @ss... but i guess making mistakes is a part of life (but then again, I wouldn't really call that a mistake)

but I've applied to several DO schools, most of which were recommended by people from the pre-osteo forums (thanks, by the way) and I still have 9 secondaries floating out there in neverneverland and i'll keep the hope for as long as i can, but as for my current plan it's to just hope for the best but plan for the worst...

Unless you are coming from disadvantaged background, it is not going to be easy to justify why you chose to attend CSU. As I mentioned above, UCs have excellent financial packages and you can commute if you want to live close to home (don't mention this on your PS as adcoms don't like reasons like that. They want to see that you're independent).

I figured out a possible ethnicity based on what you said and your situation, your SN, your VR score, and of course, check out your avatar.

I personally think that you have a shot at MD schools, but if you don't care about MD vs DO, then just go DO and start med school. Good luck.