LOUPES: Surgitel? Orascoptic? Exam Vision?

[Sweeney5]

I am a 4th year dental student hoping to cash in on the student discount before graduating to get and additional pair of loupes. I currently have orascoptic 2.5x and i am hoping to go up in magnification to 3.5 or 4.0x.

Which company to go with? Orascoptic? Surgitel? Exam Vision? other?

I know people love DFV (i have their light and love it), but i just can't get past the HUGE Buddy Holly frames.

Any advise would be much appreciated!

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[pollo]

I have DFV 3.5x magnification and love them. They have other frames you can get, I got their nike sports frames, look great and are super light.

 

[Sweeney5]

Thanks for you reply. I thought that the DFV TTL once we went above 3 had to get the buddy holly frames. Am i mistaken?

 

[lemoncurry]

you have to try on diff loupes from diff manufacturers to figure out what you like and what you want. get what works for you.

 

[iamjackbauer]

just man up and get the buddy hollys.

 

[AmpedUp]

i think my biggest focus is getting something that will correct my posture (ergonomics)...which ones are the "best" in that regard?

 

[PAyankee]

just man up and get the buddy hollys.

yeah this isn't a fashion show or the tour de france. Get the equipment that will save your neck and back and go with the DFV expanded field buddy hollys.

 

[newyorkblork]

I will probably be ostracized, as this goes against the (very smart) "save every penny you can" mentality, but as a second-year, I love my Zeiss loupes.

I got the Med-Lite loupes to save some money, but in all honesty, they really can't compare. I don't have strong eyes, something I have recently been forced to acknowledge rather than remaining in denial, and using a better pair of loupes has really improved my visibility of all sites.

I'm no longer nearly as tired after lab sessions because I don't have to fight my loupes, and because I can lean back and see better than when I crouched down and kissed my patient using the cheaper loupes.

If you are starting your own practice right out of school, though, I do believe you can have this written off as a business expense. Assuming Loupes are around 1500$ and you're in the 28% tax bracket, that's 420$ that you could save on the income tax by counting it as a business expense (finance people please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's how it works). So you might want to compare it to your student discount.

And if you make it to the 33% tax bracket, it'd save you more

 

[Sweeney5]

Thanks for tossing Zeiss into the mix, i will look into them further. I heard they can be very heavy.

This is a sales reps response to me asking about orascoptic vs Exam vision

"Yes we currently sell both Ora and Exam Vision but we have decided to bring
in Exam Vision as it is a better product and we will be moving away from
Orascoptic. Surgitel is #4 in the sales and their product is not of the same
calibre as Exam Vision. You will see this when you physically see the
product and I show you the comparative info.
Looking forward to showing you"

Any thoughts!?!

 

[litldime]

I'm going to be purchasing new loupes as well before I graduate. I have Orascoptic right now and with the light, the feel heavy to me. That by the end of the appt, my face hurts. I stopped using my light b/c of that and I am just about to start again. I'm thinking of just sticking with 2.5 mags. The company I was interested in is Q-optics. My interest in that company is based on the weight. They say their loupes are 36g while I checked and orascoptic was 45g. Anyone heard of them or have any reviews? Thanks...If seems like 60% of my class has DFV...

 

[pollo]

We just had a Loupe fair at school. Q-optics was there and I actually liked some of their products. They were definitely very lightweight. I would say they were about the same as my Nike frame DFVs. I tried on some Zeiss while I was there and they were way to heavy for me. Just trying them on, I felt like they were sliding down my nose and I could tell there would be no way I could do an entire procedure wearing those things without being uncomfortable. I know some people who have heine and they like them. I'm just not a big fan of flip ups because I feel like every time you flip them up or down they move a little bit.

 

[AmpedUp]

We just had a Loupe fair at school. Q-optics was there and I actually liked some of their products. They were definitely very lightweight. I would say they were about the same as my Nike frame DFVs. I tried on some Zeiss while I was there and they were way to heavy for me. Just trying them on, I felt like they were sliding down my nose and I could tell there would be no way I could do an entire procedure wearing those things without being uncomfortable. I know some people who have heine and they like them. I'm just not a big fan of flip ups because I feel like every time you flip them up or down they move a little bit.

Big fan of the Nike DFV's. They're extremely light & comfortable and the optics are superb (they also look awesome! though the Oakleys offered by Surgitel are probably the sexiest frames). My only worry is the fragility of the frame, which is about $175 to replace after 1 year warranty expires (and maybe more if the loupes themselves are damaged)...but the neck strap they provide is pretty rigid; only way you can damage your loupes is if you sit on them . Not sure if I want something more than 2.5x, although they'll give me ~45 days to decide if I want to upgrade to a higher mag. I'm definitely going to get the light with it because many students opt out & decide to get it later on (which ends up costing $300-500 more than if you bought it as a package deal).

Q-optics is ok, although the fact that their products have a "lifetime" warranty definitely has me thinking...However, I think my focus is going to be on comfort & ergonomics. After those have been corrected, I'll buy something else, so the lifetime warranty thing isn't a major sell on my end.

Not going to make an order until this coming spring term. We're going to need them in the summer (during transition year) I hear.

 

[AmpedUp]

We just had a Loupe fair at school. Q-optics was there and I actually liked some of their products. They were definitely very lightweight. I would say they were about the same as my Nike frame DFVs. I tried on some Zeiss while I was there and they were way to heavy for me. Just trying them on, I felt like they were sliding down my nose and I could tell there would be no way I could do an entire procedure wearing those things without being uncomfortable. I know some people who have heine and they like them. I'm just not a big fan of flip ups because I feel like every time you flip them up or down they move a little bit.

Big fan of the Nike DFV's. They're extremely light & comfortable and the optics are superb. My only worry is the fragility of the frame, which is about $175 to replace after 1 year warranty expires (and maybe more if the loupes themselves are damaged)...but the strap they provide is pretty rigid; only way you can damage your loupes is if you sit on them . Not sure if I want something more than 2.5x, although they'll give me ~45 days to decide if I want to upgrade to a higher mag.

Q-optics is decent, but I felt that their optics was lacking a little--after trying several loupes on, I was convinced that they weren't as sharp/detailed as DFV's (I don't wear prescription FYI) although the fact that their products have a "lifetime" warranty definitely has me thinking...However, I've decided to focus more on comfort & ergonomics, and the DFV's do the best job for me all-around (Surgitel a close 2nd--optics is almost there IMO). After I've corrected my ergonomics, I may buy something with better optics (e.g. carl zeiss), so the lifetime warranty thing isn't a major sell on my end.

Not going to make an order until this coming spring term. We're going to need them in the summer (during transition year) I hear.

 

[lemoncurry]

had 3.0 surgitels w/ oakley Radar frame, upgraded to 5.5x surgitel w/ titanium frame and use them for everything.

whatever brand you choose, don't be afraid of high magnification.

 

[Insipidipisin]

I've tried Surgitel flip downs (2.5x) and Orascoptic TTL's (3.8x = 2 pair). I like Orascoptic well enough to say that I haven't tried the others. Their lights are bright, but expensive. Featherlight seems to be a good alternative for a light - from what I've seen of a colleague who used it.

 

[litldime]

had 3.0 surgitels w/ oakley Radar frame, upgraded to 5.5x surgitel w/ titanium frame and use them for everything.

whatever brand you choose, don't be afraid of high magnification.

wow that's a big jump in magnification. I guess i'm a bit weary of higher mag since i feel like i'm already so dependent on my 2.5x's right now. what made you upgrade to that high a mag?

 

[Masseter]

Hi!

I have a pair of Exam-Vision 2.8x with the blue cosmo frame. In fact about 80% of my class got them.

It really is a good product. I've had them for a bit more than a year and I've had nothing but good things to say about them.

 

[lemoncurry]

wow that's a big jump in magnification. I guess i'm a bit weary of higher mag since i feel like i'm already so dependent on my 2.5x's right now. what made you upgrade to that high a mag?

I just didn't feel like my 3.0x were giving me that much of an advantage. Plus, our endo dept has really nice Zeiss microscopes and I got sorta used to using those. With the 5.5x, I can better see the angle and depth of my bur when making cuts, I can see imperfections in the tooth structure and diagnose better, I can better sculpt my composite before curing, see and remove flash after curing, and it allows me to have so much more precision for just about every task. I have even used them for prophys!

 

[Mackchops]

I went through d-school without any magnification and, like you, threw down for loupes just before graduation. I got the DFV 3.5 EF (buddy holly frames) and I LOVE them. There was almost no learning curve and as much as the sales lady tried to discourage me from jumping straight to the 3.5x, I almost wish I had gone higher! They're comfortable, protective, and the optics are great.

I agree with others who have said that the look of the frame should be dead last next to quality, vision, and comfort. But then I've never understood the argument that the buddy holly frames look bad -- I think they look great.

 

[oreoson]

Sorry wrong thread.

 

[azdds]

Hey fellow dentites! I wanted to get the word out about a loupe company called Sheer Vision and the absolute horror of a time I had with their product in hopes that others will not be in my position...

I purchased the loupes just before second year, and within 2 WEEKS of use, the light and lens cover have already broken. The "steepest angle of declination" that they offered is still really straining on your neck, and there is very poor visibility over the lens. Frames are like a cheap knockoff made in China. Customer service is a nightmare and will not take them back. I am planning on pursuing litigation to get a refund, and after doing some research, I am not the only one who is in this position.

Be aware of a rep named Joe Caudillo and the sales pitch of "lifetime warranty"...turns out it's only 1 year. Sheer Vision? More like Sheer Crap.

 

[azdds]

Also ended up purchasing Surgitel 3.5 and am extremely happy with quality of loupe and light combo.

 

[toothache1]

I am a 4th year dental student hoping to cash in on the student discount before graduating to get and additional pair of loupes. I currently have orascoptic 2.5x and i am hoping to go up in magnification to 3.5 or 4.0x.

Which company to go with? Orascoptic? Surgitel? Exam Vision? other?

I know people love DFV (i have their light and love it), but i just can't get past the HUGE Buddy Holly frames.

Any advise would be much appreciated!

will seeing a little more detail give you ability to prep better?

will it be a good trade off for weight and discomfort for yourself?

I tried 2.5 and 3.5. Ended up returning the 3.5 from Orascoptic. Yea I see more detail but better preps? nah still the same prep. 3.5 will not make you a better practitioner.

Do not be fooled by the sales guy. Ask your preceptors/profs, they all end up using 2.5 for GP works and MAYBE 3.5-3.7 if they have it for lab stuff.

 

[lemoncurry]

I disagree. In a profession where fractions of millimeters make a difference, being able to see that much better can help you control your instruments better as well.

 

[txaggie03]

Hell, I'll jump on board and help resurrect this old thread.

I disagree. In a profession where fractions of millimeters make a difference, being able to see that much better can help you control your instruments better as well.

This is very correct. Do your crown wax-ups to your absolute best, then check them under a 10x microscope and see how good you think they look.

Regrettably, the trade-offs I would have to make to park the microscope over my patients mouth are significant. However, for lab work, it is fantastic.

For what it is worth, I absolutely love my 2.5 Heine loupes. I like seeing the entire quadrant of the mouth, especially when operating a bard parker or similar instrument. And having a depth-of-field of nearly 11 full inches makes moving back and forth from mouth to table-top work effortless.

 

[toothache1]

I disagree. In a profession where fractions of millimeters make a difference, being able to see that much better can help you control your instruments better as well.

Please do not take this wrong.
Yes it is delicate work that we do but fractions of millimetres should be distinguishable with either 2.5x and 4.0x. I'm just suggesting OP that being comfortable with your equipment is an important part of practicing dentistry.
You have to find the balance between many things.

 

[Duriel]

I got orascoptic 3.8 EF loupes. I like how you can adjust the working difference on the lens themselves. For when your working on the lab bench or on the dummy/patient.

 

[dantemac]

What do people think about Zeiss loupes? Worth the price? seems like a good investment

 

[lemoncurry]

Please do not take this wrong.
Yes it is delicate work that we do but fractions of millimetres should be distinguishable with either 2.5x and 4.0x. I'm just suggesting OP that being comfortable with your equipment is an important part of practicing dentistry.
You have to find the balance between many things.

No offense taken. I respectfully disagree and you are free to your own opinion. I offer mine as someone who has used 3.0x and upgraded to 5.5x and seen a huge difference in my approach to preps. Right now, my 5.5x Surgitels are being repaired and all I have to use right now is a cheap set of 3.5x loupes purchased off ebay for a song, and let me tell you, the quality of the optics is night and day.

If your optics are excellent (at least one of the big companies like Zeiss, Surgitel, DFV, Orascoptic, Heine) then I can see your point to a certain degree. But even so, my own experience tells me differently. There was a huge difference from my 3.0x surgitels to 5.5x Surgitels. Being able to see the angle of a bevel, a slight ski-jump or the margin of a perfectly color-matched class V that much better can only make your work that much better.

 

[lemoncurry]

What do people think about Zeiss loupes? Worth the price? seems like a good investment

Classmates of mine who got them loved them. I can't argue with the quality of the optics; probably the best out there. However, I was not willing to wear something that big and heavy on my face. Pretty much anything from the big 5 companies I mentioned in my previous post is going to be good stuff and worth the investment. My opinion is that choosing one of those companies boils down to personal preference in the fit, comfort, customer service, etc., and as long as you are happy with those things, the optics will be more than good enough.

 

[txaggie03]

is something worth the price??

what an excellent question that ultimately only you will be able to tell.

I dont mean to be crass and condescending, but the 'worth' of something is only defined by the role it fills for the user.

Some in my class wanted as light as possible. Some in my class wanted flip-ups vs through-the-lens, or vise versa. Some in my class wanted the cheapest. Some in my class wanted high magnification. Some in my class wanted style. Some in my class wanted only those with reps that visit our school. Some in my class didnt care and copied others.

So 'worth' or 'investment value' is all a diverse matter of opinion.

I cant speak for the other's level of satisfaction, but only for my own, but I would buy from Heine again in a heartbeat. and when I need 4.5x or 6x for specialty work, I will start with them.

They did not have a rep at our school. I saw a pair of their loupes at a trade show. I recognized their company from optometry equipment my wife purchased. She was happy with her equipment so I gave them a try. The optical clarity was my main reason for getting them (after all, they make equipment for ophthalmology and optometry - their glass rivals zeiss, IMHO). My second reason was that they are flip-ups and allow me to get a really steep angle to keep me sitting up straight.

 

[Jay Noah]

Two years ago my friend and I bought austrian loupes Kruder x3.5 at IDS
~ 2000 USD for both pairs with light.

Very good focus depth - 7 cm (less than Surgitels but more than enough)
Nice and light frame
Solid equable light with right color
and really fair price.

We examined many spieces but price or quality always were into account and these ones have best price quality ratio.

 

[Duriel]

I like my orascoptic 3.6x because I can adjust the working instance by turning the lenses themselves. It's helpful when I have to do different things at different distances.

 

[Mr.Ion]

Hey fellow dentites! I wanted to get the word out about a loupe company called Sheer Vision and the absolute horror of a time I had with their product in hopes that others will not be in my position...

I purchased the loupes just before second year, and within 2 WEEKS of use, the light and lens cover have already broken. The "steepest angle of declination" that they offered is still really straining on your neck, and there is very poor visibility over the lens. Frames are like a cheap knockoff made in China. Customer service is a nightmare and will not take them back. I am planning on pursuing litigation to get a refund, and after doing some research, I am not the only one who is in this position.

Be aware of a rep named Joe Caudillo and the sales pitch of "lifetime warranty"...turns out it's only 1 year. Sheer Vision? More like Sheer Crap.

Any post that you search for about Sheer Vision is practically the same. Terrible. It all seems to start with the light. When I tried their loupes, they were comfortable and I actually liked them. I was actually able to get a great price on 3.0X enforcer frame loupes and I stayed away from their light and went with Lumadent. I am very happy that I haven't had to call them or ask/question any thing. Seems like a nightmare.

Thanks for the PSA.

 

[r2thekesh]

Go to a conference and check out all the vendors at once.