Love and med school

my fiance has made it perfectly clear that she is willing to go wherever I want to go to med school. We've agreed that all else being equal I should stay here in our home state, or another state where she has relatives (OH). she'll be done with school when I go to med school, and her field is demand everywhere (accounting/finance). We've been dating since we were 13, and she's always known I've wanted to go to medical school and has always been very supportive. I consider myself very lucky.

Just a thought: it strikes me as odd that you'd move in with somebody, and buy major furniture/appliances together, yet you two say that you'll re-evaluate your relationship when you get into med school (or something like that). If you're willing to comment on that, great; if not, no sweat (it's none of my business anyway).

 

lol
sorry i post this reply without even finishing reading ur post... well, kinda lazy, i got the idea anyway...

ok, first of all, i don't think that it's a wise idea to move in with a guy when you have no prior serious relationship experience... what is that? making loan or co-signing loan? (sounds like it) with someone u don't plan to marry anytime soon? well, are you two engaged? if there are so many ifs in your future, it makes me worry about how mature you have been dealing/planning your future.

i will not live with my girlfriend before i marry her.

 

Do you guys think its a good idea to tell a medical school that you would like to go there because your fiance is settled and working in the area, or is it better to not mention that kind of thing?

 

A good friend of mine who is M1 at Wash U just got married this past summer. She met her husband (M3) when she was still in undergrad. As she was going through the application process they came to a point where they thought they either had to break up or get married, because he was in med school already and she would have to go where he was (UIC), or he would have to transfer. They decided to get married, and they both were accepted to Wash U, their first choice, three days before the wedding.

 

Hey Mistress -

I'm in pretty much the same situation except fast forwarded one year. I'm going through the interview process right now, and only 2 of the 10 schools I've applied to are within a commutable distance from where my gf and I currently live. My gf is working on her PhD, and while we have talked about it and she would like to move with me if I leave the area, we both know that it may not be possible because of her academic responsibilities. It's scaring the crap out of both of us, because there is a real possibility that I could be living 5 or 10 hours drive from her next fall. Add to this that neither of us is really ready to get married (perhaps she a bit more than me.)

It's a crappy situation, and there are no guarantees. Like you, I may get lucky and get into the school that is two miles from my house (I'm currently on the waitlist) or into the one that is one hour from my house. W/O that happening, however, some hard decisions are going to have to be made. Next fall will be three years for us, and while I would HATE to see it end, I'm not 100% confident that that won't happen.

Sometimes life serves up a $hit sandwitch and you just have to take a bite.

Good luck

Zoo

 

mistress,
just my 2 cents, but i don't think it is wise to move in with someone before marraige. its better to get yourselves situated independently first and then when he puts that ring on your finger, yall can move on in!! well that's my future plan anyway. i think it just makes things so much easier. i don't think you get as much benefits (legally, financially) if you aren't married while living with someone. then theres the whole morality issue. i know you commented on it earlier. but you can get to know someone without necessarily living with them. spend time with each other, go out, talk talk talk!!! but anyways, it is your decision, i'm just giving you my point of view.

 

eeek. talk about a flashback to the 50's. sorry, i am from Boston, and round here no one even blinks at the concept of "living out of wedlock" mistress s, don't let anyone make you feel bad about living with someone. i have been living with my boyfriend for a year and a half and we couldn't be happier. it's not the right decision for everyone, but if it works for you, go for it.

i am currently in the process of applying to medical schools, and he's definitely coming with me wherever I go. the wait-and-see approach works well because, as you know, people change a lot over time, and forcing a marriage contract on someone in your early 20's, especially when you might be moving around a lot, is not always the best idea. the one issue you might find problematic in the coming months is choosing schools to apply to. you both might have to compromise, if you make staying together your first priority.

and please, please do not get him to put a ring on your finger yet. you have so much of your life ahead of you!

 

Hey williestyle, I know you're just voicing your opinion, and I appreciate that. I'd like to give mine too.

I think that sexual compatibility and a person's ability to cohabitate with their marriage partner are HUGE factors that will determine weather a married life will be happy or not. Everyone needs to determine thier own path, but I feel it is quite intelligent and mature to move in with a potential spouse before making the decision to get married. I'm pretty positive that the "morality issue" that you speak of doesn't figure in to my reasoning, so that could be the difference. There has to be an objective "wrong" in something here for that to be the case, and I don't feel that there is (agreeing with the original poster.)

Again, I respect your opinion, but I think it's slightly annoying to bring "morality" into a bit of council when the person you're counseling has already told you that it doesn't figure in in the same way it might for you.

Just my $0.02

 

If it's true, I see no harm in mentioning the fact that you have a very good reason to go to that school. But I'd save that for the interview and not make it a huge deal.

 

ageeing with adcadet. tell them, but don't make a huge issue with it. many secondaries have a spot where they ask you if you have any "special considerations" that you'd like the school to know about, and this seems like a great special consideration to me.

 

What I have always found interesting are the studies showing that living together before marriage means the couple is something like 50% more likely to get divorced than those who don't live together. The point the articles alway address, and I agree with, is that the couples who divorce are most lkely moving in together to avoid taking the next logical step in commitment, such as marriage. I think there is nothing wrong with living together and think in a lot of situations that it is a good idea.

How do people's parents who are living together feel about this? I know my parents would flip and practically disown me.

 

It was really funny. My parents had no problem with my older brother when he did it first, but when my little sister (the baby and daddy's girl) did it last there was a minor meltdown at home.

Love those double standards.

 

Wow, I can definately relate to a lot of what you guys are feeling. Here's my story: After living in NYC for 5 years, I just moved down to DC with my boyfriend because he got into law school here. I'm going to apply to med school next summer which means (cross your fingers) that I'll start in fall of 2004. SO, we'll overlap 1 year in school while he finishes up law school. I'm really hoping that I'll get in to a school here, or in a state that he could get a job in. It's all really up in the air and scary because he'll probably be interviewing for jobs at the same time that I'll be interviewing for school. But, I think we're pretty sure that we want to stay committed to each other, even if it means having a long distance relationship for a few years. I am determined to go to where ever I get into school. It's weird how when I wasn't in a serious relationship every thing was much easier and clearer. Maintaining a relationship definately complicates things.

And as for living together before marriage, I personally could never imagine agreeing to spend the rest of my life with someone before seeing what it was like to cohabitate with that person. It really does change the relationship in so many ways. Not only do you learn all of the funny habits and quirks of a person, but you learn what it's like to spend so much time with someone and the responsibilities of sharing a place with someone. I think it would be way too stressful to have to adjust to these things while adjusting to marriage at the same time. But this is just how I feel about it.

 

before this thread turns into a morality one- I'd like to share my story.

I've been dating my bf for 3 years. I am in the process of applying to schools this year. I've been accepted to one osteopathic school which is about 1.5 hours from where I live now-and I'll find out from my state school (which is on the same campus I live on now) in mid-november. I have applied to a variety of other schools, but the only interview I have right now (besides the two I've already had) is at SUNY Syracuse which is about 5 hours from where I am now.

My boyfriend is already planning on taking a year off to work in a lab before he goes to grad school. I've brought up the fact that if I have to decide between SUNY Syracuse-if I get in- (MD, 5 hrs away) and UMDNJ-SOM (DO 1.5 hrs away), it's going to be a really tough choice if he doesn't come with me. (Not that I was pressuring him- he wouldn't do anything he really didn't want to do- trust me )

This whole syracuse thing brings up another issue entirely. I'm not throwing my "morality" on anyone, but I'm not going to live with my bf before we get married. So if he moves to syracuse (again- that big if i get in thing) we'd live in separate apartments.

If he said he wasn't moving to syracuse, I'd have to make one of the hardest decisions of my life- I really don't think I could be in a LDR and go to medical school at the same time (STRESS!!!). I really think that my bf and I will end up getting married (we've talked about it a little)- but I couldn't deal with the distance- so I'd probably pick the DO school.


Sorry for the length of the post, but just wanted to add my situation.

 

marakah,

i agree with you on the financial thing totally- and if i could convince my bf to do it- i would. i just don't think i can. i didn't make this clear in my last post- my bf would have his own job in a lab (easily 40hrs/week maybe more) so he wouldn't need me to entertain him.

as for the LDR thing- i would be miserable- i've had to do it before (my bf was in boston for one summer). and i don't need miserableness to mix in with my already hectic M1 year, you know?

 

don't move in with the guy unless you are married. Believe me, anything else will cause problems. This is a "sh!t or get off the toilet" moment. Committment? Well, if you are sleeping together and buying stuff, then why the he|| not get married? sheesh...

 

Ah, if those were the only things that factored in... Life would be easy, wouldn't it?

 

Blitzkrieg, how do you know that "anything else will cause problems"? You know very little about her or her situation. You said "believe me", so do you have personal experience to back up your advice? I'm just wondering what led you to make this generalization.

 

It's called morals: something the majority of this country had up until the 60's. Yes, I'll probably get flamed..I don't care. The freeloving, freestyle of the 60s and 70s are taking effect on this generation...divorce is skyrocketing, teens are having children out of wedlock, there is more crime..The loss of the nuclear family...the sanctity of marriage.....I guess I'm one of the few left who actually hold to that moral standard..It's really a sad pock-mark on the face of America that we have come this far!

 

living together with no sex?

Well, I would say that living together is very unwise, but if there is no sex, then I would place it as extraordinarily unwise, but it would be ok...from a sex point of view. That's the lowest common denominator of morals..then we get into other issues, but those are up to interpretation, even by the old guard morality standards.

 

Morals are a good excuse, but in reality I think it's responsibility, forethought, and integrity that have fallen by the wayside and caused the problems that you highlight. I'm 26 and have been living in sin for a while. I have no kids, no divorce, no diseases, and a girlfriend who I love and who loves me. Morals are not necessary for practicality. Are you suggesting that morals are better than intelligence and planning? Why so? They do the same thing...

 

Grandpa? Is that you?

 

yes, come back from the darkside, my son!

 

I think there are about as many people on this board who could live with a partner and NOT have sex as there are who got a 43 on the MCAT.

 

that isnt what I meant. I was just stressing how unwise it is to live together without sex...with sex=wrong..without sex=playing with fire

 

I think you mean a 53 on the MCAT


IE

impossible

 

As a doctor, the best interest of the patient is the only interest to be considered. I can't medicate morality, and as a doc it will be my responsibility to present all of the options to the patient. However, I am allowed to hold my own personal views, as everyone else is. Looking at it that way, we can never be truely objective, we can just present the options and allow the patient to choose for themselves.

 

wouldn't have it any other way. I think that whenever people legislate (or medicate, per se) their morality (whether it be mine, or the opposite extreme) they are doing a grave disservice to their patients, and those that they mean to serve.

 

This is kind of related to this thread, so I thought that I would mention it. There have been studies that suggest that people that live together before they get married have higher divorce rates than those who do not. When I first read this I was quite surprised. I would have thought the opposite would be true. I, myself, lived with my wife before we got married and I think it was a good thing for us. But it's still interesting, if that statistic is indeed true, that people who live together before marriage have a higher divorce rate.

I would bet that this relates more to the personalities of the people rather than the act of living together itself. That is, people who would refuse to live together before marriage might be more likely to hold traditional values about marriage and divorce, and therefore refuse to get divorced, even if they were unhappy in their marriage, because they think it is morally wrong. I don't know, it's just a theory. But I think living together made marriage less of an adjustment for me. I thought this was a good thing for my wife and me, but to each his/her own.

 

Mistress S-
I must say I have a somewhat complicated situation myself here in CA. I moved out here last year to be with my fiancee after two years of a "long-distance" relationship. When I first came it was with the intention that we would both move away to wherever I was accepted since he could get a good job in any major city. However, now that the economy is "in the toilet' things are quite different. He has a great job here and it would be very difficult to find another one like it at this time. There are only two schools close to hear and both are UC's...since I am a non-res and my stats aren't the best I honestly have no chance here. I maintained IL residency with the intent of going to school in Chicago but now I have no idea what to do. I haven't even returned all of my secondaries b/c I don't know if I even want to have a choice right now. I can wait until things are easier.....
Anyway, the point is that this is all really difficult. We are getting married in June and I do not want to live 2000 miles from my husband..been there, done that! But, I must say to you that if by the time you are applying you are not considering marriage then I would go to school wherever I could. If we weren't engaged I would not have such issues with being apart.....it is definitely not an impossible situation.
One more thing, I haven't read all of the posts, but there is nothing wrong with cohabitation. It is actually a great way to see if you are compatible. The entire country has an incredibly high divorce rate...not just those who live together first. Sometimes life just happens...I don't believe it is any indication of your morals or value sytem...like for me it was cohabitation or stay 2000 miles apart b/c I sure can't afford to live here by myself!!

 

I also read a really long article on this and it makes sense if you think about it...the gist of the article was that people who live together end up getting married a lot of the time because it is the next logical step, not necessarily because they are right for each other, you know? Anyways, I had never thought about it like that before - I mean, I dont have any moral issues with living togteher before marriage and i always thought it would be a good way to test compatibility. Anyways, I also met this couple once who didn't move in together until they got married. Not because of moral issues but because they enjoyed having their independence, their own friends, etc etc which I feel is hard to do a lot of times if you are living with a boyf/girlf. They still spent the night with each other often but not EVERY night. They said that when they got married and moved in together, it was more like they were starting a new life together. I dont know..their experience made me think...

Sorry for the rambling.

 

Well, I am currently in a similar situation as some of you guys. But my situation is further complicated by the fact that my significant other and I are both applying to medical school right now, together. We are both unsure if this is the right thing to do, but we are going with it, and are just going to see what happens before we make any life altering decisions. Of course we are hoping to get into the same school, but that even leaves me wondering if it would be good for us to be in the same med school together. If we dont get into any of the same schools, then one of us would probably have to give up medicine and go into another field (we are very committed to each other) or try to apply again next year, knowing that after you have rejected accpetances at a med school it is very difficult to get into another one the next year. Any time I ask someone about this situation they tell me they know lots of couples in med school, the catch is most of these couples are not in the same year (ie. a 2nd year married to a 3rd year, etc). I feel like we are the only people out there applying to med school together as a couple. If anyone has any advice it would be appreciated.

 

B]Since my oven has remained firmly and intentionally bun-free, that meant I only had myself to think about when it came to deciding when and where to apply to school.[/B]




HA, your bun? Nice. That sh#t was funny as hell. Who the heck gets married before med school anyway. That is flat out insane. But people want the dollaz so I guess they are eyeing the future. Damn, what a little $$$ will do.

Gumshoe

 

the whole situation sucks. we have to work hard, rack up a huge debt, sacrifice family, friends, significant others, work 100 hours per week during residency and get paid beans (initially) all at the same time. my boyfriend of 3 years graduated one year before me and was trying to get a job in pharm sales. well, after over a year of disappointments, he just recently got a job with a big time pharm company and he has to relocte to booneyville, california. and i don't know where i am going to end up either because i applied all over the country (i'm from CA). it is so hard. why is the system this way? i feel for anyone who has to sacrifice relationships for their educ/career. good luck to everyone in a long distance relationship!

 

Kutos to you blitzkreig! There are SOOO many reasons not to cohabitate but I'll list only one. I guess I'm one of the few here who CHOSE to wait until marriage not only to live together but also to wait to experience sex. My husband chose the same road. What a precious gift I was given. That any normal, sane man would wait 29 years for ME is incredible. He summed it up best on our wedding night...."I've been waiting all my life for you". The same committment that we made to wait until marriage is the same committment that we brought into our marriage. When things don't go as planned and things get rocky, bailing out is not considered an option, working through it is. (we have currently been married 13 years) I realize my position is not one shared by many on this board and I in no way wish to impose my opinion on others. I do think it important, however, for this position to be voiced.

 

First cohabitation-
Couples that cohabitate with a higher divorce rate are those that first lived together without planning to get married. Studies show that couples who live together and plan to get married someday don't have the increased divorce rate because they establish different patterns. They establish healthier behaviors because they feel like they are committed and are in it for hte long haul so they argue differently. Couple that don't plan on marriage at first establish "I can leave any time behaviors" that will eventually lead to divorce if they do marry. Therefore, don't live together if you don't plan on getting married at some distant future because you will only learn unhealthy relation behaviors. This makes sense.
Next-
Medical school and relationships--Truly incompatible.
Mistress S, I feel your pain. Unless you have a significant other that can move anywhere with you, it is hell. My boyfriend is in intelligence so he wants me to follow him around. Let me tell you how convenient it is to wait for your bf to tell you where he kinda thinks he will be when you will be applying. He just expects me to apply wherever he ends up being stationed. Great! What if it Cali? Then I will never get in. WE are serious too, soon to be engaged. I have decided it is too much work to plan my medical career around someone else. I think our relationship will be over. I ask myself, why I should move around, get a masters (to improve my app so I can get in somewhere besides my state school), just to get in the same city as him, when I could just simply breeze into my state school. Soon I plan on telling him to accept long distance or get a new girlfriend. Don't do something you will regret. What means the most to you?

 

regarding the cohabitation issue, from my perspective (29 y/o male), its a hit or miss situation. To reiterate what some have already said, I think its a good idea if marriage is an imminent possibility (like within a yr or 2), otherwise what often happens, people get very comfortable with one another, add to this the connectiveness of sharing a place, expenses, maybe a pet, and its gets very hard to separate unless things are already a disaster. a close friend of mine did this for a good 7 years, and although he and his x are still tight, they would both admit to wasting a quite abit of time. This was clearly evident in his rather "outgoing" personality when he wasnt in her presence, guys are dawgs. Anyway, its probably better to end a relationship a yr too soon rather than a year too late, I know easier said than done. If I was a chick, and I was living with a guy for 1-2 yrs, there better damn be a ring on my finger and a wedding date, it goes back to why buy the cow if u can get the milk for free, i know a double standard, but chicks have the whole bio. clock issue, all my female aquaintances including my sister who are either late twenties/early thirties and are still single are in panic mode and regret spending years with guys that at the time, they were really "in love" and who were maybe "the one". I think it was Jimmy Buffet who said, marriage is a permanent reminder to a temporary feeling, and for those of you under the age of 25 even thinking about tying the knot, shame on u!! It should probably be agaisnt the law as should no sex until 17 ( considering the teen preg/STD rates, just not mature/responsible/bright enough to fully underand the concept and I dont want to have pay for some horny teens mistake thru my tax dollars), but thats a separate issue

The person that I was as an early twenty something y/o is a far cry from who I am today, adolescence has been extended t/o our twenties, the chances that u and your husband/wife will evolve/grow in the same direction are slim. Add the stress/pressures of med school on top of this and forget bout it. Not that it is impossible but statistically unlikely. While I was in PT school, a classmate of mine found out that his wife was doing the next door neighbor while he was studying his ass off, because she felt neglected, and they had 2 small children, needless to say he was devasted and almost had to drop out. No one wants to be alone, everyone wants physical/emotional intimacy but dont let these feelings/needs cloud your judgement and make a potentaily life altering mistake. Relationships are a fulltime job and regardless of how painful it may be, I think med school has to be the priority for now, its a solid investment in your future, relationships will come and go, be selfish for now!, best of luck to all

 

I went through the whole application process with my partner (yes, we live together, and no, we aren't married, and can't afford to be, it completely ruins any financial aid you might get unless your spouse is a student) last year.

We were lucky to have a happy outcome. I got into a school I liked very much, and he gets to live in his favorite city in the world (the one he grew up in). But before I got off the wait list at the end of July, we were going to move to a city that he didn't like so much, to a school that I liked a lot, but wasn't my top choice. Basically, it came down to this:

I had to make the decision that becoming a doctor was my top priority, even though the idea of losing him makes me unspeakably miserable. With that, I knew that I would go to the best place for me, and let him make his decision from there. Of course, considering what the best place for me did include whether or not I thought he would be happy there, because if he were miserable, I would be to.

I had to sit with a certain amount of uncertainty, and let him make his own decision. We were planning to be in a LDR if he couldn't move for some reason, so it wasn't about breaking up, although also being pragmatic people, we talked about it on the practical level. But I realized that he needed to make the decision about whether living with me was his top priority, considering I had decided that going to medical school was my top priority, and living with him was #2.

And then I applied, and waited. I did make some adjustments to my schools list based on him, concentrating mostly in areas where he could get a job in his field, and let him veto a few cities that he couldn't stand. This was useful, considering I was narrowing my list down from more than 30 schools I was interested in, and after his vetos, still applied to over 20. But other than his input there, he decided not to tell me his preferences about certain school, in order to not bias my opinions when I went on interviews, which worked perfectly. He told me after everything was settled about where I was going to go what he had thought, and I was glad that we did it that way.

And as an aside, I'm surprised that so many SDNers thought that it was appropriate to scold someone on something they shared as background information when they sought advice. It's one thing to have a different opinion and express it, but to assume that someone else should conform to your standards, or will come to a bad end, appears very close minded. Humans have differing morals, and make decisions based on what they feel is best for them. To say that your opinion is *the* moral one implies that morals are universal, which is the kind of logic that spurs persons to do extremely bad things to persons who have different beliefs from themselves. I know that it isn't likely that most SDNers are fanatic extemists of any kind, and it disturbed me to see some of that kind of thinking showing up here. And for the record, I realize that there were different reasons posters gave for taking about the co-habitation issue, and if all you gave was a personal account of why you make the decisions you do, you are not what disturbed me.

 

Mistress S--

Very true. My boyfriend is currently a first-year med student and we met a year and a half ago, just as he was about to turn in his AMCAS application (to some local schools, and many more hundreds and even thousands of miles away). We're both several years out of undergrad, and I work in a 9-to-5-type field that's mostly found only in bigger cities. For the first few months our relationship was very casual, and I followed his application process with friendly interest. Somewhere during secondaries and interviews, though, it became apparent that what we had was definitely love and possibly the permanent kind, if we decided to nurture it. I felt a little torn because I had worked too hard putting together my own life to suddenly drop it to follow a man to god-knows-where, but on the other hand love doesn't fall in your path every day and you shouldn't just kick it to the curb when it does.

What I ended up deciding was that if he went to another city, I would begin looking for a job there and would move when I had found a satisfactory one. I didn't want to end up unemployed and miserable in a city where the only person I knew was too busy studying to spend any time with me. If I was going to move somewhere, I needed to have additional reasons to be there besides my boyfriend.

In the end, he got accepted to a school here in our home city, we moved in together, and things have been marching happily forward ever since.

A couple other random thoughts:

It's trite to say, but remember that you can tell him that you want him to come with you. (Although you seem to have great communication with him already.) My boyfriend and I ran into a lame little communication problem in that he seemed to want me to come with him if he moved, but he never said so. I eventually had to actually ask. Applying is such an intense process that even obvious things can start to seem doubtful. Keep him apprised at all times of your hopes, fears, wishes, and feelings. (Not that you wouldn't.)

This one is funny to me because I am also very cautious and pragmatic in romance, and I attribute it to the exact opposite reason: I grew up with parents who have been happily married for decades. I.e., I tend to feel like "I've witnessed the nuts-and-bolts sacrifices and responsibility that go into a happy marriage, so that's taught me how to make these decisions based on practical as well as passionate reasons." Or whatever.

Seriously, though, your views on cohabitation, marriage, relationships, and med school strike me as very well-thought-out and mature. I'd wish you luck for the future, but I don't think you're going to need it--you seem really on top of what's going on in your life. I'll wish you happiness instead.