Love or Medicine?

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Dov

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I just recently broke up with my girlfriend of three years partly because I haven’t been there for her due to my academic and research obligations. When we did have time, I couldn’t do many things because I haven’t had a paying job in 2 years. She is a finance major (easy as hell at my school). Though initially supportive of me, fundamentally cannot empathize with the necessary commitments a career in medicine requires. When I try to explain it to her she is insulted and thinks I am belittling her career goals. She has even suggested that I am stupid for studying as much as I have. I know I cannot explain the whole situation in this cursory history.

OK here is the question. I love this girl and I know I want to marry her but a relationship cannot work as long as I continue on this career path. IF pre-med was this difficult for us, med school then residency will be impossible. I think it is such a shame that I can’t be with her because of what I want to do. Is medicine worth losing the love of my life? I don’t think I can be truly happy with either decision. I wish I hadn’t gotten into medical school. I mean this may all be moot because I think it is beyond repair. I guess I am just bummed because I lost the best thing in my life because my life’s dream is to become a doctor.

Input is great… I guess I am just looking for support or someone who went through a similar situation. Breaking up sucks.

Thanks

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How can you be with someone who doesn't want to support your goal of being a doctor? Isn't marriage for the good and the bad.
 
AmCo said:
How can you be with someone who doesn't want to support your goal of being a doctor? Isn't marriage for the good and the bad.

She supports it and she is really happy that I got into school... I just can't be there as much as she needs.
 
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I'm pretty sure your going to get one-sided replies on this one. Think about the people you just presented this to.
 
Mike4284m said:
I'm pretty sure your going to get one-sided replies on this one. Think about the people you just presented this to.

I know but you guys are a lot like me
 
Being married myself, I know how important a spouse's support is every step of the way. No matter how independent we get, we always need someone to stand on our side.
As you said that medicine has been your life long dream and your gf does not emphathize with your current schedule. There will be many other situations down the road in your life where you might have a viewpoint which she'll not appreciate. Are you will to give up your dreams every step of the way just be with that person? For some it is doable for others it is not.
You have worked really hard up till now and gotten into a medical school. She should appreciate that your hard work is paying off. She probably does not realize how many people have to give up their dreams because they cannot get into a med school.
I do not know how you feel about this person. If you cannot see yourself giving up on other things in life to be with this person, I would say continue with the medical school and see how life unfolds. She may even come around when she realizes how important all this is for you.
 
I'm currently going through the same thing. I just broke up with my bf of three years mainly due to the long distance thing. I will be going to a medical school more than 1000 miles away from him. Driving back and forth is out of the question. Due to various family and personal issues, it is impossible for him to move with me at least for the first 3 years. He doesn't want to go thru the agony of long distance relationship. I'm extremly heart broken and felt that it's all my fault for moving so far away. It's been really painful for both of us, I don't really know how to make it better. All I can say to the OP is that I feel your pain, and that if it's meant to be, perhaps you guys will be eventually be together after you finish school. Best of luck....this is just the beginning... :(
 
I'm sorry you've had to make a decision like that. :( Kinda sucks to realize that love isn't enough, I've been there. So from what you've said, it sounds like you two have very different career goals and expectations, and neither of you are really willing to compromise. And perhaps rightly so. If you choose her over medicine, I can see a part of you being resentful that you gave up a lifelong dream for her, especially if things don't pan out exactly the way you want them too. That sort of imbalance isn't healthy. I think the only way it could work is if you are both willing to meet in the middle - so for example, she decides to bank in NYC and the two of you live together/near each other and spend time on weekends. Though that also depends what she ends of doing, because finance jobs can be long hours as well.

Awww, big hugs and a gallon of ice cream. Well, I don't know if guys do the gorging on ice cream thing, but SDN love, nonetheless.
 
ivy91 said:
Awww, big hugs and a gallon of ice cream. Well, I don't know if guys do the gorging on ice cream thing, but SDN love, nonetheless.

perhaps a handle of cheap bourbon...
 
Dov said:
I just recently broke up with my girlfriend of three years partly because I haven’t been there for her due to my academic and research obligations. When we did have time, I couldn’t do many things because I haven’t had a paying job in 2 years. She is a finance major (easy as hell at my school). Though initially supportive of me, fundamentally cannot empathize with the necessary commitments a career in medicine requires. When I try to explain it to her she is insulted and thinks I am belittling her career goals. She has even suggested that I am stupid for studying as much as I have. I know I cannot explain the whole situation in this cursory history.

OK here is the question. I love this girl and I know I want to marry her but a relationship cannot work as long as I continue on this career path. IF pre-med was this difficult for us, med school then residency will be impossible. I think it is such a shame that I can’t be with her because of what I want to do. Is medicine worth losing the love of my life? I don’t think I can be truly happy with either decision. I wish I hadn’t gotten into medical school. I mean this may all be moot because I think it is beyond repair. I guess I am just bummed because I lost the best thing in my life because my life’s dream is to become a doctor.

Input is great… I guess I am just looking for support or someone who went through a similar situation. Breaking up sucks.

Thanks


IMHO, I think it would be best to end things on a good note (aka don't say anything stupid or rip each other's eyes out). Head to medical school. See how things are for the both of you during this period. If both of you realize how much you need and love each other, then get back together. If you guys don't have such an epiphany, then hey, it was for the better, and in the end the two of you will at least remain friends. That's just what I think. Of course, if I were in your situation, I might not even listen to my own words. Love is simply crazy. Good luck.
 
Love Medicine and pursue your love
 
I'll just wait ans see what happens I guess. Thanks everyone. I appreciate al your advice.
 
In my opinion, most of the advise that has been given is not sound advice, mostly because it is given (mostly) by those that are NOT married. If you want to be in a good relationship, you MUST learn to compromise. Both she AND you must be willing to give and take. You will NOT have a happy relationship, or marriage, if you do not learn this principle. Being married, and going to medical school, I must say: marriage is worth it, but it is hard and takes work and the sooner you realize that, the better. But I guarantee you will not find greater happiness than inside of marriage--if you follow these principles! If either of you are selfish in your relationship, it will not work (which is THE reason why so many marriages are NOT working nowadays).
That being said, this is what I do, and this is my advice: Talk to her and ask her what YOU can do to make her happy with your situation. Chances are, you CAN study less. You CAN be with her more often. If you value your occupation more that your personal relationships, then you will *never* have a good relationship. Who wants to date, or be married to someone who cares more about their job than they do YOU? Not me, and I'm willing to say NOT ANYBODY. Think about it. What do you value more: yourself, or your girlfriend? If I were her, I'd bail out too.
 
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I'm also married and I actually kind of agree with Dr. Fate, eventhough it sounds harsh. It's totally about compromise, and sometimes that will mean knowing you'll only pass a course rather than honoring it, or a B instead of an A. As foreign as that is for all of us it's something that's out there if we really want people in our lives, we have to give to them too. I wasn't married in college, but as I'm getting ready to start medical school myself, I know i my grades will not be as superlative as they could be, but that I'll be happy with my choices.
 
You're going to columbia. This means you've worked very hard. Perhaps you could have worked less and devoted more time to your relationship. At some point you need to realize you cannot have it all. You have to realize you can still be a doctor without going to the best schools, being #1 in your class, etc etc. You've got to sacrifice something here. Maybe going to a school that would be less competitive, or once you get into Columbia realizing you're not going to be at the top of your class because you have a life outside of school to devote time to. I'd recommend taking time off and working so you can put life into perspective and realize what's most important to you.
 
Dr. Fate said:
In my opinion, most of the advise that has been given is not sound advice, mostly because it is given (mostly) by those that are NOT married. If you want to be in a good relationship, you MUST learn to compromise. Both she AND you must be willing to give and take. You will NOT have a happy relationship, or marriage, if you do not learn this principle. Being married, and going to medical school, I must say: marriage is worth it, but it is hard and takes work and the sooner you realize that, the better. But I guarantee you will not find greater happiness than inside of marriage--if you follow these principles! If either of you are selfish in your relationship, it will not work (which is THE reason why so many marriages are NOT working nowadays).
That being said, this is what I do, and this is my advice: Talk to her and ask her what YOU can do to make her happy with your situation. Chances are, you CAN study less. You CAN be with her more often. If you value your occupation more that your personal relationships, then you will *never* have a good relationship. Who wants to date, or be married to someone who cares more about their job than they do YOU? Not me, and I'm willing to say NOT ANYBODY. Think about it. What do you value more: yourself, or your girlfriend? If I were her, I'd bail out too.

I really agree with what Dr. Fate said. You don't have to choose between your gf or medicine. It's all about compromise. I'm one of those people that believes you can definitely have a relationship/family while chasing your dream career. But it's going to take a lot of work to maintain a healthy balance. Maybe you need to sit down and really think about if the both of you have given your all at making things work. Perhaps she could've been more understanding at how much work you have to do, but maybe you also need to make a stronger effort at including her more in your life.. even if that means not maintaining a 4.0 gpa. You have to decide if it's worth it to you, and if it's not, then I think it's better for the both of you in the long run to pursue your own paths.
 
Go with the girl. That or be miserable. But remember, you come first, and then the people you love.
 
Dov said:
I just recently broke up with my girlfriend of three years partly because I haven’t been there for her due to my academic and research obligations. When we did have time, I couldn’t do many things because I haven’t had a paying job in 2 years. She is a finance major (easy as hell at my school). Though initially supportive of me, fundamentally cannot empathize with the necessary commitments a career in medicine requires. When I try to explain it to her she is insulted and thinks I am belittling her career goals. She has even suggested that I am stupid for studying as much as I have. I know I cannot explain the whole situation in this cursory history.

OK here is the question. I love this girl and I know I want to marry her but a relationship cannot work as long as I continue on this career path. IF pre-med was this difficult for us, med school then residency will be impossible. I think it is such a shame that I can’t be with her because of what I want to do. Is medicine worth losing the love of my life? I don’t think I can be truly happy with either decision. I wish I hadn’t gotten into medical school. I mean this may all be moot because I think it is beyond repair. I guess I am just bummed because I lost the best thing in my life because my life’s dream is to become a doctor.

Input is great… I guess I am just looking for support or someone who went through a similar situation. Breaking up sucks.

Thanks

If she means that much to you, you'll make it work. Re-arrange your time so that you maximize time together and studying. No, it's not easy, but it can be done. I guarantee you that the one night a week you take off to be with her won't affect your performance in school that much. I'd rather get a lower grade and have a happy, healthy relationship than train myself to never have time for anyone other than school.
 
kovalchuk said:
But remember, you come first, and then the people you love.

Always put oneself ahead of those you love? That makes no sense. That's not love, at least not to me.
 
I'm just going to say I also agree with dr. Fate's assessment.

Any relationship is about compromise and cooperation. Talk with your gal and see whether you can work something out or not. If you cannot work it out, then think about what is more important to you and will make you happier. If she gives an ultimatum rather then both of you reaching a compromise, you'll have to think about whether you'll regret it if you drop an acceptance for a girl who cannot accept what your career goals are, or if leaving her and finding someone else is what it will come down to. However, if the love is strong on both sides then I believe a compromise will be made on both ends.
 
I'm actually not dajimmers, I'm dajimmerswife (I've been a lurker for some time now). :) From the perspective of the non medical student I think that you may not be giving her all of the support that she needs. I understand that you need a lot of support as you are going through a lot of difficult work and decisions, but I bet that she is facing some of the same issues you are. By saying that her major is "easy as hell" (I'm assuming those are your words, not the ones she used to describe her major to you) it seems as though you may be sending out vibes that her career isn't as difficult as yours and possibly not worth as much in your eyes, society's eyes etc... Communication is key in any relationship and you two need to talk to each other about what your expectations are for the future especially the next few years. I don't necessarily think that you have to sacrifice working hard and getting into a top school, but you need to know when to take a break and have fun in your life as well. Ok I'm starting to feel like Dr. Phil or something. Let us know what happens and good luck with everything.
 
i want to be a doctor more than anything in the world. i feel i can make plenty of time for my wife, and daughter and studying to be happy. chances are if you really cared you could to. i agree with the above two.
 
Thanks everyone for all your advice. I feared failing more than anything, that is, before I lost her (keep in mind my def. of failing is a B) I treated her second to my studies. This hurt her a lot... too much. Unfortunately, this is a lesson hard learned. For now, she won't take me back. We will both be in NYC next year for work and school and she promised to give me another chance then. If we hadn't broken up, I would not have realized this. THe general sentiment of this thread is that a compromise is needed. In reflection, she same tons of sacrifices while I went through orgo and the MCAT. I only gave her time once my grades were sound. I will not make this mistake again and I hope all is not lost when/if we try again. I am willing to make the necessary sacrifices for her now... i just hope its not too late. I hope my experience can be of help to others that may be in simmilar situations. Thanks again everyone for everything thus far. I am going to keep checking the thread; I value your input.
 
This is a VERY interesting situation for me because I am a)a pre-med applying now (and hopefully a med student next year) as well as b) the gf of a pre-med apply now (and hopefully a med student next year). So I have been on both ends...being exasperated at NOT being able to give the other person the time and attention they needed and also on the receiving end of too little affection.
Also, we are long distance (CA to DC...yea....2000+ miles.......doesn't help)

All I can say is that if you feel it is worth it, which it seems to me you do, then take the time to not simply break it off, but to really work with each other and communicate. You really REALLY need to budget your time well and figure out times where you need to her your UNDIVIDED attention. She also needs to completely understand that sometimes, you simply won't be able to.
Also, careful you don't belittle her. TRUST ME, pre-meds do this without even thinking about it, just by saying "Well, medicine is much harder than..." blah blah blah. No matter how true...it sucks to be on the receving end of that statement.

If all this ends up for naught..then it wasn't meant to be in the first place. At least you can say that you tried your best. :)
 
If she's a finance major, isn't she going to be busting out 100-120 hr work weeks for ibanking or something similar...? Or did she go to school for the MRS degree?
 
Come on! Snap out of it. This thread in and of itself is insulting to your GF/future wife. If you want to be happy in life, go with the girl. Nothing you find in medicine will take her place (assuming you actually love her). I don't know you but you seem a little high strung. Don't ruin your life because you need to constantly pat yourself on the back for your academic accomplishments.
 
I went through a very similar situation with my boyfriend of 2.5 years. He was an econ major, and we were about to go down the marraige road. We even went to look for rings. In the beginning he was very supportive, and when it because apparent how much we meant to each other, I got all sorts of promises like "I'll follow you anywhere so you can live your dream." But after I graduated and it because apparent just how much he had to follow me (unknown med school location and then unknown residency location), before I could begin to follow him (he wanted to live in Japan for a few years) - things just started to fall apart. It's hard because I doubt either one of you wants to keep the other from following their dream jobs, but sometimes it just creates too much distance between you. It takes so much more from the other person to support a medical student (I know this because my sister married one). If they can't handle it now, it doesn't get any easier for a very long time. I know how much it hurts to not be with the one you love, but over time all pain gets easier to deal with (I dealt with my pain by getting an adorable cocker spaniel). So if things don't work out even in the future, just go on and live your life and enjoy your career. It's been about five months since we dated and I'm never bitter about what didn't happen, it was just a chapter of my life that was nice, but is over now.
 
Though initially supportive of me, fundamentally cannot empathize with the necessary commitments a career in medicine requires.

Dov, learning to compromise is key, but if she can't plug into your dreams, it's not worth it. Trust me on this one. I've got some history on this kind of thing behind me, and am soooo incredibly happy I'm not with the woman anymore. She was an incredible person, and I don't regret the four years we had, but when it came down to it, our life goals were not in synch. I finally pulled out when I realized that, every step along the way, the things I wanted would be the things she was hoping wouldn't happen. If we had stayed together, when I got my MCAT score, she would have been upset. When I would have called to tell her I got into Columbia, she would have been upset. If I smoke the boards, she would be upset. I'm not saying we would have had a fight, but deep down, these things, which I want, are things she would be hoping didn't happen.

If deep down, she is wishing you had a 40hr a week (or even 50 a week) job, she will end up resenting you, and bad things will follow.

In relationships, comprimise IS key, and balance is the secret of life, but when it comes to fundamental questions about what makes you tick... if she's not excited about that, it's not worth it.
 
flop said:
Come on! Snap out of it. This thread in and of itself is insulting to your GF/future wife. If you want to be happy in life, go with the girl. Nothing you find in medicine will take her place (assuming you actually love her). I don't know you but you seem a little high strung. Don't ruin your life because you need to constantly pat yourself on the back for your academic accomplishments.

And if it doesnt work out... i lost both.
 
autoimmunity said:
IMHO, I think it would be best to end things on a good note (aka don't say anything stupid or rip each other's eyes out). Head to medical school. See how things are for the both of you during this period. If both of you realize how much you need and love each other, then get back together. If you guys don't have such an epiphany, then hey, it was for the better, and in the end the two of you will at least remain friends. That's just what I think. Of course, if I were in your situation, I might not even listen to my own words. Love is simply crazy. Good luck.


I agree with this smart person. I went through a similar thing recently.
 
kelli said:
Always put oneself ahead of those you love? That makes no sense. That's not love, at least not to me.

Ignore me, I'm bitter.
 
Dov,

my significant other and i (we're not legally married, but im sure we are by common law in many states.) faced a situation last year that was somewhat similar. we were both applying to medical school. we both knew the stakes, and we both knew how much it meant to each of us. I am an MD/PhD student -- he already had a masters and was applying MD. We were both accepted to his top choice school, and I was accepted tomy top choice school (he was not) but I did not like the MD/PhD program at his top choice for a number of reasons I will not go into here. We had already decided that separating was not an option for us, and in the end we moved to Utah, where he had not even applied, and was not my top choice, but I was happy with it. Now we are about 1 day from knowing if he will start medical school here next year.

So, this is obviously not your situation, but it does certainly bring up the compromise issue that people have been talking about. Think about how much my significant other compromised to be with me! We all know how hard it is to get into med school... and he turned it down at that time because he felt like there were things that mattered more. This, however, has without a doubt been the hardest year of our lives, and I am more than willing to admit that if I knew back then how hard this was going to be for him I would have insisted we stay at his top-choice school so that he would not have had to suffer for as long as he has. So I live with this regret (which, of course, is not really a productive emotion) and he has had some anger (which actually, has been good for him because it has reminded him that he has to stand up for himself when the stakes are so high).

So, too, do you -- have to stand up for yourself -- and by that I mean if you really know that you love this girl, then you have to keep trying to get her to understand it. I think that some of the things that people have said about you potentially not giving her what she has needed is valid. You tell us youself that you consider "failing" to be a B. As a future physician I think you probably realize by now that you ARE going to fail at some point in your career. Maybe you wont get AOA, maybe a patient will die (in fact I'm certain that at some point a patient of yours will die!)

All I'm saying is that it might be time to adjust your priorities. Try to figure out what REALLY makes you happy. For many of us our careers as future physicians are very fulfilling, but for most of us I imagine that it is not enough. Family is so important. And if you want this girl to be your future family, then you probably need to stop putting your needs first all the time, and start looking at this from a broader perspective.

And Dov, it sounds like you are just finishing college. Congrats -- but relationships and life after college are not the same as they are when we are undergrads. There are so many more challenges, and so many more triumphs -- it's something that every couple that met in college has to go through. Just be prepared for that.

good luck!
 
to original poster

Clearly you don't respect your girlfriend. You started out by announcing with resentment that her major was easy as hell. No wonder she thinks you're belittling her career goals. You already did in your 3rd sentence!! I'm with Dr. Fate. If I were her, I'd bail out of that relationship, fast.

Also, what exactly are your academic and research obligations? Why are you obligated to spend so much time doing research and studying when everyone else isn't. No offense, but you're not so important that you have research obligations that take up all your time. You're creating these obligations because you're an overachiever.

It's very clear to me that you value yourself over anyone else. In which case, I hope you use your Columbia education to further your self centered career as a researcher.
 
BAM! said:
It's very clear to me that you value yourself over anyone else. In which case, I hope you use your Columbia education to further your self centered career as a researcher.

I don't think it's clear at all. He obviously feels very torn, and I don't think it's fair to accuse him of being self-centered.

And Dov, maybe if you were willing to take the plunge, get married, and live together, then finding time wouldn't be as much of a problem. Plus, nearly every medical student I've talked to has said that getting a "pass" in your classes during the first two years of medical school, is just fine. Not that you don't have to work hard to get a pass, it's just that getting honors/high pass in every class doesn't matter like getting A's did in undergrad except MAYBE for the very most competitive specialties. Apparently, your board scores, evaluations from the clinical years, and the connections you make during your rotations matter a lot more than whether you honored every class during the basic science years.

Just my two cents. I hope everything works out well for you and your gf.
 
I just found out she had been cheating on me... she isnt worth the time or the career loss. Thanks though to all of you. I choose medicine.
 
Dov said:
She supports it and she is really happy that I got into school... I just can't be there as much as she needs.

You said it all right there. You both seem to love each other, but it seems that you two may not have been meant for each other. We can love people throughout our lives. when we get older we get into relationships and we have this romantic picture of how it will all end up. It's like a high school couple breaking up because they graduate and end up going to different colleges. No hard feelings, just the circumstances of where life takes us all. It helps to think about how she has been a positive influence in your life and the joy she has brought. When your 110 years old you can think about your 3 years with her and how there was a purpose for her being in your life at that time in ur life. You'll meet more people dude, it's all good. Congrats!
 
Dov said:
I just found out she had been cheating on me... she isnt worth the time or the career loss. Thanks though to all of you. I choose medicine.

Whoa sorry to hear that buddy. I guess i should read all the posts before i put my own thoughts up :rolleyes:
 
Dov said:
I just found out she had been cheating on me...

That starts up a whole other debate. Is cheating forgiveable?

My condolences, future classmate.
 
Dov said:
I just found out she had been cheating on me... she isnt worth the time or the career loss. Thanks though to all of you. I choose medicine.

Dude. Run for the hills. You've chosen wisely.
 
ivy91 said:
That starts up a whole other debate. Is cheating forgiveable?

My condolences, future classmate.

Thanks for your condolences. I forgave her once already. It takes a lot for me to give up on someone and nothing is unforgivable in my opinion unless it becomes chronic or the person truely does not respct you. My little blurb and even this whole thread is a very cursory outline of the past three years. I origionally started it to get advice on one particular and importat aspect of why we broke up... and I did. Thanks everyone.
 
Dov said:
Thanks everyone for all your advice. I feared failing more than anything, that is, before I lost her (keep in mind my def. of failing is a B) I treated her second to my studies. This hurt her a lot... too much. Unfortunately, this is a lesson hard learned. For now, she won't take me back. We will both be in NYC next year for work and school and she promised to give me another chance then. If we hadn't broken up, I would not have realized this. THe general sentiment of this thread is that a compromise is needed. In reflection, she same tons of sacrifices while I went through orgo and the MCAT. I only gave her time once my grades were sound. I will not make this mistake again and I hope all is not lost when/if we try again. I am willing to make the necessary sacrifices for her now... i just hope its not too late. I hope my experience can be of help to others that may be in simmilar situations. Thanks again everyone for everything thus far. I am going to keep checking the thread; I value your input.

It doesn't sound to me like she's the right girl for you; no matter how hard you're trying to convince yourself that she is. This sounds an awful lot like a former relationship of mine. Trust me no matter how heartbroken you are, no matter how much it seems like there is no other girl in the world that can replace her, you're wrong and with time you'll see this. If she inspired you the way the woman of your dreams will inspire you there would have always been time. And it doesn't sound like she fully understands you either. I think you both may need to experience different loves to truly understand what you want. Maybe someday down the line you'll meet again.
 
I'm not sure how old you are, but I can tell you that I have seen MANY many many people, who were with "the one," (and some even went on to get married) during 3-4 years of college. Anyway, for one reason or another, things ended after college and looking back, most people realize that the bf/gf was probably not "the one."

I know it might seem like right now she's the only you could spend your future with, but there are a ton of fish in the sea!
 
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