Low gpa undergrad advice on Med School Canada

[17100ok]

Hi guys,

From the title of the thread. you can guess what Im going to talk about. My cgpa is horrible ( cgpa 2.6 out of 4.0) and (science gpa ~2.4/4.0) and Im in fourth year, some of you must be wondering how deluded I am to think of Med school at this point with low gpa....unfortunately I really realized my passion to be a doctor too late.

I am a Biochemistry major, and I am considering of staying back an extra 2 years and raise my gpa up, maximum I could reach is a 3.0 but I know that's not enough either and would it even be worth it? I am not sure what to do? should I do a new undergrad or should I apply for masters before applying to med? Does anyone have any similar situation or information regarding this?

Is there an alternative path to boosting gpa in Canada or are the above mentioned strategies the only ways? I know in the US, people do a post Bac and improve their gpa? Is there anything similar here? does anyone have an opinion or advice to improving chance of getting in with a situation like mine, I know there is no guarantee of getting accepted even if things improve, but I want to do my best, please let me know.

And I apologize for long thread, there is just so much I want to ask, thanks for taking the time to read and/or respond

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[ConfusedChemist]

You're going to have a rough time. I'd stay another 2 years, a masters is USELESS with your GPA. A second undergrad might help, but not all schools will take it.

 

[17100ok]

You're going to have a rough time. I'd stay another 2 years, a masters is USELESS with your GPA. A second undergrad might help, but not all schools will take it.

thank you, I was beginning to think the same as well, In your opinion, is it best to stay back 2 years or do another undergrad instead? Also, do you know if getting a second undergrad and doing well in it would improve my chances at US than Canada?

 

[ConfusedChemist]

thank you, I was beginning to think the same as well, In your opinion, is it best to stay back 2 years or do another undergrad instead? Also, do you know if getting a second undergrad and doing well in it would improve my chances at US than Canada?

You NEED to look up for each Canadian school their 2nd degree/extra years policies on websites. Email them if you can't find it or have questions. you do NOT want to do 2 years of school to find out it won't help.
I dont' know each specific policies of each school, I do not require extra years and have never looked.

 

[HopefulCanadian]

There is a pdf that has the general policies online. There isn't a true post-bacc program that I have seen in Canada. One may exist though. You have several options though. One is to do a second undergrad at the school you graduated from. This will make it easier to get into the program because you don't have to worry about gaining admission to the school as you probably will have a hard time getting admitted to most schools given your grade point average.

Most schools have a policy that allows you to do a second undergrad and a certain amount of credits from your last undergrad. The undergrad has to be in a different major and sometimes needs to be in a completely different faculty. For example if I did a degree in philosophy as an example I couldn't retake all these and get another degree in philosophy. You can retake some courses but you can't retake the exact same degree.

Depending on the school this could mean you only have to do 2 years worth of courses in order to complete a second undergraduate program however some are 3 years. Another option is doing a masters, but some universities don't take your masters grades and only count your undergraduate grades. This is actually listed on the PDF that I talked about. Here it is I found it. https://www.afmc.ca/pdf/AdmissionRequirementsfor2015_en.pdf

Additionally, some schools don't erase your new grades for old but calculate it cumulatively. You would have to look up the programs on the PDF/contact them individually. To be competitive in Canada you are looking at needing a 3.8 GPA throughout your next years and a strong MCAT score. In province applications have a lower minimum GPA requirement, but if you want to be competitive a 3.8 is what you should be aiming for.

In the US their competitive GPA requirements are a bit lower but you still need strong grades.


The other option you have is to go through a college program that has the equivalent university classes and work your way back through to university. These are typically 2 year programs that are similar to a post-bacc but not quite the same. Depending on the school in the US you may have a shot after that. Some Canadian universities require you to finish obtaining a degree once you have begun, but NOT ALL. Keep in mind some programs require you to have a certain number of your courses to be upper level (300 level and up) to apply.


Realistically you don't have any very simple short cuts AS FAR AS I KNOW. I want to add the last part because someone may know more and may know of some program that exists within Canada that I don't know of.


As for the USDO schools your grades aren't competitive for those either at this time, and same with most decent Caribbean schools. Either way you need to upgrade your grades. I would suggest doing it at your university as it would be the easiest to get into. Your current GPA would prohibit you from getting into a lot of undergrad programs outside of your own university.

Your best bet is to upgrade the grades and then start looking at Canadian schools and then US schools if you still close to being competitive for Canada. Wish you all the best.

 

[sux2Bintl]

dont do this to yourself, which aspect of medicine attracts you? If something to do with professionalism, go to a law school if that's at all interesting to you too, go to a law school...

 

[HopefulCanadian]

You're going to have a rough time. I'd stay another 2 years, a masters is USELESS with your GPA. A second undergrad might help, but not all schools will take it.

Some schools even just add those grades to your cumulative.

 

[ConfusedChemist]

Some schools even just add those grades to your cumulative.

Exactly. And one of the very few that actually look only at the 2nd degree wants a 130 CARS....so it's not exactly a good one to count on

 

[UBC2014]

If you can afford the US tuition, then I would strongly reccomend focusing on USDO programs. That will be the best achievable path. Even doing the 2nd degree will be no gaurantee for western and the schools that do consider it. I'd still obviously go for that- but doing grads repair would be most high yield. Take a mix of new classes with retakes of any class below a C, and you'll see your GPA with retakes rise quickly.

And of course destroying the MCAT.

 

[HopefulCanadian]

If you can afford the US tuition, then I would strongly reccomend focusing on USDO programs. That will be the best achievable path. Even doing the 2nd degree will be no gaurantee for western and the schools that do consider it. I'd still obviously go for that- but doing grads repair would be most high yield. Take a mix of new classes with retakes of any class below a C, and you'll see your GPA with retakes rise quickly.

And of course destroying the MCAT.

I will say this .... as I was recently corrected. SOME provinces accept the USDO as equivalent. Most do but they each have their own exceptions. Additionally you are seen as an IMG....so at that point I don't see what the advantage of doing a USDO is as a Canadian over a USMD considering the USMD is easier to get into versus Canadian MD acceptance. (8% vs 45% acceptance rates). I would look into getting a US allopathic degree first as an option.

Grade repair (what I am engaging in right now) takes a long time. You have to be willing to fight it out for a minimum of 2 years and most likely 3-4 to truly overcome. I have an advantage of doing a math based degree first and taking almost no science. That means that I can focus on the science not have to retake math and then take easy classes after ...like doing a psych degree for example.

Like I said just be careful of doing a masters. Undergraduate courses appear to be the thing that matters most. Bite the bullet for your sake and rock the MCAT and retake those course Personally I am getting older so I am looking abroad but obviously it isn't what I want to do.

One other option by the way is taking the pre-reqs at college...As long as the courses are equivalent you can use them to apply... College courses are typically graded slightly easier from what I hear and there is a smaller class size depending on the college you go to. You have the advantage of being an older person in a class so you have more reasons to focus and not party and what not.... Good luck keep us posted.


EDIT*

I forgot to add... you may not even be eligible for a masters program with your grades....

 

[UBC2014]

I will say this .... as I was recently corrected. SOME provinces accept the USDO as equivalent. Most do but they each have their own exceptions. Additionally you are seen as an IMG....so at that point I don't see what the advantage of doing a USDO is as a Canadian over a USMD considering the USMD is easier to get into versus Canadian MD acceptance. (8% vs 45% acceptance rates). I would look into getting a US allopathic degree first as an option.

Grade repair (what I am engaging in right now) takes a long time. You have to be willing to fight it out for a minimum of 2 years and most likely 3-4 to truly overcome. I have an advantage of doing a math based degree first and taking almost no science. That means that I can focus on the science not have to retake math and then take easy classes after ...like doing a psych degree for example.

Like I said just be careful of doing a masters. Undergraduate courses appear to be the thing that matters most. Bite the bullet for your sake and rock the MCAT and retake those course Personally I am getting older so I am looking abroad but obviously it isn't what I want to do.

One other option by the way is taking the pre-reqs at college...As long as the courses are equivalent you can use them to apply... College courses are typically graded slightly easier from what I hear and there is a smaller class size depending on the college you go to. You have the advantage of being an older person in a class so you have more reasons to focus and not party and what not.... Good luck keep us posted.


EDIT*

I forgot to add... you may not even be eligible for a masters program with your grades....

1. Masters is pointless beyond believe for OP. GPA is king.

2. All provinces accept USDO degree for full-scope of practice, except Saskatchewan(OMM only) and PEI(Pending). I believe PEI simply just never had any DOs wanting to return there, so they didn't bother with the legislation. Sask, i think last i heard they are open to changing the legislation should someone actually come knocking asking to practice. Think about it - Saskatchewan heavily recruits foreign doctors from africa and india, so if they take their credentials and residency training sometimes, they sure as hell will take a USDO with a US residency training.

EDIT: I just confirmed with a resident, that USDOs now have full-practice right in every province,as long as you have a valid license from a different province. I think Sask/PEI were just too lazy to go through all the paperwork. When I get a link, i'll post it up - it seems no one really got around to updating wikipedia since...we'll they're busy AF residents/doctors.

3. Grade repair via the USDO route will be MUCH quicker than regular grade repair, as during their GPA calculation on their common application to all USDO schools(AACOMAS), they only consider the MOST RECENT attempt at a course. So if you got a D in Calculus, but retook it and got a A, then only the A will be included. They do not average it like Canadian schools and USMD schools do. This is huge, you can see your GPA jump up quickly by retaking a few poor classes. Subjectively speaking, schools like to see you still do some upper level courses and do well also, as that shows you didnt just get A's because you retook all your classes. Couples with a strong MCAT score, schools won't have much issues with this.

Grade repair for the USDO route, could be accomplished in as little as 1 year of full-time classes, or even less depending on the courses and your scheduling. How do I know this? I did this and retook freshman level classes I did poorly in when I applied to USDO programs. Taking 100/200 level classes is a joke when you're much further along in your education/life.

Grade repair for the Canadian route, will require you to essentially start a 2nd degree and box yourself to the few schools that consider it. USMD is more or less out now, unless you dedicate that 2-3 years of 4.0, and couple it with a beyond amazing MCAT / Life story. It has been done before, a poster on PM101 got a 43 MCAT, but had a 2.9/3.0 GPA and got into a bunch of top USMD schools - but they also had 3 straight years of full-time 4.0, so the recent huge upward trend CAN help. But its a longshot at that.

Hence why my opinion is, if money isn't an issue, 1 year of grade repair and a USDO application will be much better served than the 2-4 years it will take for fixing everything for a Canadian MD shot.

You can gauge weather or not you can pull it off, by taking the MCAT and see if you can really crush it - because if you can't, then UWO is out, and that is one of the big ones that you would be applying to as a 2nd degree applicant. If you score decently and think you can score even higher as needed for the cut-offs in Canada, then definitely pursue the route of going for the Canadian MD. It makes things alot easier. It will take more time, and still won't be a guarantee though.

 

[UBC2014]

Also, i think i laughed hard. Sure a USMD can in theory be easier to get into than a Canadian MD, but as an international student applying to USMD schools - good luck, you pretty much need very similiar qualifactions as Canadians. There is flexibility though, a lower GPA can be compensated with a higher MCAT/strong life experience and vice versa.

USMD is more or less out for the OP, unless they do what I alluded to in my post above. Spend at least 3 years+ getting 4.0 and a phenomanel MCAT...and phenomanal ECs.

Canadian MD at this point, for the OP, is actually probably more realistic (still damn hard), because there are schools that do special things like only looking at a 2nd degree, best 2 years, etc etc. They don't do that in the US.

 

[maxmil]

Also, i think i laughed hard. Sure a USMD can in theory be easier to get into than a Canadian MD, but as an international student applying to USMD schools - good luck, you pretty much need very similiar qualifactions as Canadians. There is flexibility though, a lower GPA can be compensated with a higher MCAT/strong life experience and vice versa.

USMD is more or less out for the OP, unless they do what I alluded to in my post above. Spend at least 3 years+ getting 4.0 and a phenomanel MCAT...and phenomanal ECs.

Canadian MD at this point, for the OP, is actually probably more realistic (still damn hard), because there are schools that do special things like only looking at a 2nd degree, best 2 years, etc etc. They don't do that in the US.

Which schools look only at 2nd degree or best 2 years? Does UBC?

 

[UBC2014]

Which schools look only at 2nd degree or best 2 years? Does UBC?

You have google, use it and go to each schools admissions website.

 

[Hopeful091]

Hey just wondering if you've decided on what path you'll take?

I'm in a similar situation low cgpa 6.0/9.0 (YorkU scale ) but also don't have the science prereqs as I completed a BA not a BSc. I don't mind putting in the time but I do wonder if I'm being realistic sometimes.

 

[ConfusedChemist]

Hey just wondering if you've decided on what path you'll take?

I'm in a similar situation low cgpa 6.0/9.0 (YorkU scale ) but also don't have the science prereqs as I completed a BA not a BSc. I don't mind putting in the time but I do wonder if I'm being realistic sometimes.

No one can tell you at this point. Right now, is it realistic? No. It's not. With another few years of 3.9+ grades, could it be a possibility? Sure, maybe

 

[PERSISTtill the end]

Hey just wondering if you've decided on what path you'll take?

I'm in a similar situation low cgpa 6.0/9.0 (YorkU scale ) but also don't have the science prereqs as I completed a BA not a BSc. I don't mind putting in the time but I do wonder if I'm being realistic sometimes.

You can do post-bac program in US and check which ones you can apply as a Canadian.

Also, I just found this:

http://www.royalcrowncollege.com/pre-medical/

 

[bannie22]

I would do Carribean and gamble on coming back. Repairing that GPA is
1) difficult
2) restricts you to very few schools
3) lengthy duration

if you can do carribean and then do residency in the mainland you can come back to canada