low stats and doing well in med school

[Megalofyia]

---

Members don't see this ad.

What is it about med school vs college that is so different that you can hear stories of people with low stats who get accepted into med school and end up doing well?
I believe somewhere someone posted about a study that was done in Texas where some low stat people were let it on purpose to see how they'd fair, and they ended up doing well.

Is it that with their acceptance they turn over a new leaf in their study habits and are suddenly homework demons? Or maybe it's the way in information is presented in med school is different from how it's pressented in college?

 

[pathdr2b]

I knew of someone that was admitted to Harvard years ago with a 25 MCAT and 3.3 GPA. She ended up graduating near the top of her class and is now a successful surgeon.

I have a personal friend that was admitted to Carolina and a 3.0 GPA and 23 MCAT. She also finished near the top of her class and is now in residency at Yale.


In both these cases they both worked their extremely hard in medical school and both schools provided lots of academic support.

 

[Megalofyia]

What happened in college to their GPAs? Do you know what changed for them?

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by Megalofyia
What happened in college to their GPAs? Do you know what changed for them?

I hate to post this, but the Carolina grad was just bored. She has a "genius" IQ like 160 I think, and she also worked A LOT as an undergrad. The other young lady just lacked focus as an undergraduate.

 

[Ryo-Ohki]

Definitive proof that we should prefer people with lower stats.

 

[LoveDoc]

🙄

 

[DAL]

I'm not so sure they turn over a new leaf. Maybe this is true, but I'm sure there are many other factors.

For most pre-meds, I imagine the material you learn in medical school is much more relevant to your desired career path than what you studied in undergrad. They could just like the material more, making studying much easier, and the learning process much better.

Maybe some current med students could shed some light on the subject. I'm sure medical school is extremely hard, but the pass rates for medical school are always extremely high. Yes, people with lower stats can fare well in medical school, but that doesn't necessarily mean they should be there. With around 50% of people failing to gain acceptance, admissions is extremely competitive and you should always try to have a GPA and MCAT equal or greater than the averages of those that gain acceptance. Even then, there is still a lot of luck and many other factors to consider such as extracurrics, volunteer, research, clinical experience, etc..........

 

[Megalofyia]

I'm not looking for an excuss to do poorly and get into med school. I'm trying to figure out what is different.. It is certainly understandable why someone with a 3.8 GPA and 37 MCAT would do well in med school, no questions there.

 

[pathdr2b]

I am a strong believer in God. Because of this I don't say who desereves what. It's not up to me to decide nor would I want that responsibility.

IMHO, ANYONE that gets admitted to medical school did so because they were fulfilling God's destiny for them.

Not let the flaming begin..............................................

And why isn't it obivious that the young lady that was admitted to Harvard had outstanding EC's , volunteer experience, research expereince, ect. Do you really believe that Harvard would admit a student with average grades and MCAT score's and NOTHING else?

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by Megalofyia
It is certainly understandable why someone with a 3.8 GPA and 37 MCAT would do well in med school, no questions there.

I'm not sure this should be so understandable. The MAIN reason for medical students to not finish school is money, followed by personal/family reasons not grades. Therefore in my opinion, anyone no matter how strong the undergraduate can potentially do poorly in school.

 

[Ramoray]

Well i am sure there are many, including myeslf who did not decide they were premed until later or just had too much fun for the first couple years etc, therefore sacrificing GPA etc. I really think at age 18 is a completely diff story than being 23 and in med. I mean priorities at 18, unless you are a diehard knowledgeable premed, are just different. Many people mess up a couple years of college, nothing to do with them not being smart.

 

[xaelia]

28 MCAT accepted to Harvard and a couple other nice places last year:

http://mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?profileid=176

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by xaelia
28 MCAT accepted to Harvard and a couple other nice places last year:

http://mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?profileid=176

And I'm SURE you deserved it!!!!

Congrads!

Xavier University? Yep, you DEFINITELY deserved it! Penn AND Carolina too? Go 'head dog!

 

[xaelia]

Originally posted by pathdr2b
And I'm SURE you deserved it!!!!

Word up, "dog". Though, not my profile. Just another example of someone not fitting the expected statistical mould of a top-5 acceptance....

 

[jiy76]

no offense to the candidates who got into harvard with those lower than avg scores but they were all URM. While those are low to avg for white applicants they are very solid for URM. I have nothing against URMs i am just stating the facts which are unfortunate to people who think they can get in with these criteria . If you can, best of luck to you but dont count on it. if the system is screwed up enough to fill a quota of URMs so be it.I dont like the system i have nothing against the applicant(hell i'm jealous) If i were a URM i'd take advantage of it. Best of luck to all of you in your applciation process

 

[Megalofyia]

Without getting into URM status and weather a person deserved or didn't deserve to get in.. putting aside having connections or building a village in a 3rd world country, I would like to know how people did well after then got into med school. Is med school solely a matter of being able to memorize stuff? This has nothing to do with weather a person would make a good doctor or not; only with how a person does as a medical student.

 

[Meridian]

some of these students who 'turn a new leaf around' in med school (who haven't had real problems in college) don't do good as undergrads, not because the courseload is hard, but just that the classes are so inane and insipid . If you keep up with your homework, reviewing notes and stuff, you'll do fine... when you're in high school, it's about the SATs.. and how hard they're going to be... it was a piece of cake.. and then you get into college, they say how hard bio and chem is going to be.. ofcourse you have to put a lot of effort if you want to get a good grade, but i wouldn't say those bio and chem classes are impossible.. plus, if yo? were like me who was in research since my sophomore year, the bio and chem classes seem very unchallenging? coz you get hands on experience at work ... i mean you create primers and clone dna.. whereas in class they're just going over what the corresponding amino acid of thymine is .. i think you get the point...

 

[Gumshoe]

I accidentally had this posted as a new thread ... darn ... well here was the message

I think DAL had it EXACTLY right. When one knows that what they are studying has a direct impact or influence on what they KNOW they will become I think it can really have so much more meaning, or at least it should. In undergrad you just didn't have the foresight enough to see the ramifications of each little quiz or test you studied for. In med school you know what you are doing and you know for what purpose it is.

As for the God comment a few posts back, do you think that all the people that went into medicine did it for the right reasons? Clearly people have gone into the field because their parents were, money, prestige, etc. not really ever doing it for its own sake, which is to promote education, health, and healing. I believe fully in God and I just thought that God shouldn't be made out to influence every move the world makes, because we can go with His accord, or go against it. The choice is ours. I pray that all people go into this profession for the right reason, but I know that that is not going to be the case when all is said and done. If you know God, you'll know yourself and you'll do what you should do. It's as simple as that.

Think of how many people don't even know themselves or worse, even attempt to know themselves? That right there is the problem with the world ...

Gumshoe "da philosopha"

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by Gumshoe

As for the God comment a few posts back, do you think that all the people that went into medicine did it for the right reasons? Clearly people have gone into the field because their parents were, money, prestige, etc. not really ever doing it for its own sake, which is to promote education, health, and healing. I believe fully in God and I just thought that God shouldn't be made out to influence every move the world makes, because we can go with His accord, or go against it. The choice is ours. I pray that all people go into this profession for the right reason, but I know that that is not going to be the case when all is said and done. If you know God, you'll know yourself and you'll do what you should do. It's as simple as that.

I think I'M going into medicine for the right reasons. People who don't will just burn in hell

 

[ttac]

Originally posted by Megalofyia
What is it about med school vs college that is so different that you can hear stories of people with low stats who get accepted into med school and end up doing well?
I believe somewhere someone posted about a study that was done in Texas where some low stat people were let it on purpose to see how they'd fair, and they ended up doing well.

Is it that with their acceptance they turn over a new leaf in their study habits and are suddenly homework demons? Or maybe it's the way in information is presented in med school is different from how it's pressented in college?

I definitely think that people can change from their undergrad days. I was a crappy student in college, back in the mid 1990s... I spent the next five years maturing a bit and taking some more classes, and really deciding to focus on school. Fortunately, a couple of med schools decided to take a chance of my low gpa/good mcat combo, and now I'm a first year. I'm not at the top of my class, but I'm in the top 20%, which is good enough for me, considering that I'm also doing military training one weekend a month, and taking a graduate level history of medicine class as well.

In my case, I really decided to apply myself once I got to med school...which brings me to my favorite Lance Armstrong quote:

"If you ever get a second chance in life for something, go all the way."

-ttac

 

[birdie]

Originally posted by pathdr2b
I knew of someone that was admitted to Harvard years ago with a 25 MCAT and 3.3 GPA. She ended up graduating near the top of her class and is now a successful surgeon.

I have a personal friend that was admitted to Carolina and a 3.0 GPA and 23 MCAT. She also finished near the top of her class and is now in residency at Yale.


In both these cases they both worked their extremely hard in medical school and both schools provided lots of academic support.

I'm just curious....were these applicants URM?

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by birdie
I'm just curious....were these applicants URM?

Yes, but I doubt it makes a difference to their patients.

 

[jiy76]

no but it makes a difference to the applicant!!!!!!!!!! Unless you are a urm you have no shot of getting in with those scores so dont delude yourself!!!!!!

 

[Dr.Tong]

Originally posted by jiy76
no but it makes a difference to the applicant!!!!!!!!!! Unless you are a urm you have no shot of getting in with those scores so dont delude yourself!!!!!!

5 bucks someone gets offended by this

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by jiy76
no but it makes a difference to the applicant!!!!!!!!!! Unless you are a urm you have no shot of getting in with those scores so dont delude yourself!!!!!!

Patients don't care about applicants. The practice of medicine is about treating patients not about medical school applicant issues. By the way, when you went in for your last check-up, did you ask your doctor about the stats of the URM's accepted in his/her class? I didn't think so, so yes a URM has a better chance of getting admitted with those stats but does that mean that the reason the ORM didn't get admitted was because of the URM? Geez, at GW for example, there were only about 7 URM's in the class of 2006, but THOUSANDS of ORM's were rejected. Do the math..............................................🙄 🙄

 

[relatively prime]

Originally posted by pathdr2b
Yes, but I doubt it makes a difference to their patients.

It might not matter to their patients... but it kinda puts a new twist on the story. B/c you ~could~ say that perhaps they felt alienated in college and that's why they didn't as well... or perhaps their professors were bias against them... these types of things. Their being URMs gives a whole new pool of reasons as to why they didn't have great college gpas and MCATs but did really well in med school.

 

[Gumshoe]

pathdr2b, the only reason that J asked if they were URMs was to know if a someone got into med school under the normal stringent standards with those numbers. He/she wasn't asking about patients, it has nothing to do with it . Quit putting spins on things. The interest lied in whether or not being a non-urm you could get in with those numbers.

cheers,

Gum

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by Gumshoe
pathdr2b, the only reason that J asked if they were URMs was to know if a someone got into med school under the normal stringent standards with those numbers. He/she wasn't asking about patients, it has nothing to do with it . Quit putting spins on things. The interest lied in whether or not being a non-urm you could get in with those numbers.cheers,
Gum

I know for a fact that Harvard doesn't weigh any one part of a students application more than the other. Average MCAT at Harvard is about 33 and the GPA is about 3.8. It should be obivious in a class of about 150, that it had to be some WHITE applicants with grades and MCAT's in the 8-10 range in order for the average MCAT and GPA to be what it is. Statistically speaking, there aren't enough URM'S admitted with "average" stats to bring the GPA/MCAT average to the level it is.

So, if the OP is white with "average stats" and outstanding "everything else" I say go for it! One thing is for sure, if he/she doesn't apply he/she definitely won't get admitted!

 

[jiy76]

Finally!!!! someone understands my point. this has nothing to do with patient care i'm sure lots of urms are great docs

thanks gumshoe!!!

 

[ttac]

Ahh yes... nothing's certain in life but death, taxes, and that any post on SDN with the word 'stats' in the title will degenerate into an anti-URM/pro-URM flamewar.

I was actually a bit worried that this might be an exception since it took until page 2 before it started, but y'all came through.

-ttac