Low undergrad gpa, to mcat? any options available?

[TommyBravo]

So, i have spent much of the 2017 year preparing for the upcoming 2018 MCAT this January, but unfortunately this evening has me feeling hopeless. Here is my story:

I am 27 years old, and immediately after high school i went to college. I majored in biology with a minor in psychology. I had a rough relationship my junior year, and a bad break up that caught the best of me. I did very poorly in school, failing 3 classes. I changed my major to psychology in an attempt to save my GPA, but was for the most part unsuccessful in raising it. Unfortunately i only have a 2.22 cumulative undergraduate GPA. I ended up finishing my degree requirements, and moving back home with my mom. I have since been working as a waiter at restaurants full time.
I decided that i wanted to continue my education so i took a class, non-matriculated at stony brook university in NY. The class was CEB 553, biology and human behavior. I received an A in that course. The next semester i decided to go to my local community college, i took 4 classes matriculated towards an associates biology degree, even though i already kinda have the bachelors. 2 of the 4 classes i had already taken in an effort to replace the grades: chem 2 and physics 1. Both professors could barely speak English, let alone teach the courses, so i ended up dropping them, i just didn't see myself obtaining an A when the entire class was failing every exam, well below a 65, as the exams were departmentalized(made by the department chair, who was unreachable and didnt care that the all the classes taught by these professors were failing, badly). To me, struggling for a B in these entry level courses that i already received C's in didn't make any sense, so i withdrew and received 2 W's. My 2 other courses i received an A and B+ in respectively. Those courses i stuck with were anatomy and physiology and developmental psychology. Both had great professors, and were awesome classes for me to take. They inspired me to become a doctor, and since i have been preparing for the mcat exam. Until i tried to obtain my undergraduate degree, which i owed some money for, and learned i had only a 2.22 cumulative GPA.
So that is a total of 3 grades since my undergraduate 2.22 cumulative GPA.
1 CEB 553 =A
1 anp1 =B+
1 Developmental psych= A

I have spent the last 9 months making adjustments to my life and preparing for the mcat.
I have done quite a bit of studying, practicing passage based questions and teaching myself physics, organic chemistry, biochemistry, psychology.

I was considering doing a more formal post-Bach program at a private school, but because i have a 2.22 GPA undergrad i don't believe i can even apply as the minimum requirement is a 2.8 for the programs in the AAMC database.

I am feeling hopeless. Do i have any options? I feel as though all my mcat prep was a waste, because even with a high score i wont get into any desirable programs. Should i try to get a 2nd bachelors degree? and how long would that take? Should i try to take more classes at stony brook university? and if so undergrad, or in their non-matriculated SBD program (school of professional development.)

All of these mistakes i have made has given me a lot of time for introspection. For the last 10 years i have been a chronic marijuana smoker, and i cant help but blame these poor decisions and lack of performance on my addiction to that drug. I have since quit smoking, and have been living a clean life. I cook all of my meals, try to eat as little processed foods as possible, and organic as much as i can. I have been getting great sleep, all of this to get ready for life in medical school.
Life has shown me that i desire some actual fulfillment instead of getting stoned, and i have absolutely no desire to return to it. My mother has been diagnosed with MS, and watching her condition deteriorate has been probably the strongest driving force on my path towards medicine. The only thing i want to spend the rest of my life doing is trying to research and develop treatments for her, and people alike. I have decided and have had my heart set on medicine for about 2 years now. I cannot conceive of any other career to have other than becoming a doctor. I will do absolutely anything to achieve that dream. I cannot continue to go on living such an unfulfilling life. God has taught me that everything i thought i cared about was actually a huge distraction. If i had all the money in the world i would donate it to those in need, and my family so i could watch them enjoy it. We don't have an infinite time on this earth however, which is why the practice of medicine is for me. I need to become a physician, and my goal is patient care and or surgery. I cannot have a "no" as an answer, but i am feeling hopeless. I know there has to be some way i can make my dream a reality, which brings me here.
To anyone who has read this, i thank you for your time. I am so sorry to burden you even for these brief moments with my sob story. I have done this all to myself, and now i am in a terrible situation but making the strongest effort of my life to get out.
What can i do now? i refuse to believe that all this time has been wasted. I have to persevere and become a doctor. What would be the fastest and most effective way to go about getting into medical school? I have no distractions and a lot of time which i have been dedicating to my MCAT prep. All i do is work, study, and go to the gym daily to maintain a healthy body and mind.
Any advice is greatly and truly appreciated. Thank you!
I know I can do this.

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[rufflev]

First and foremost, you need to address your GPA, so you shouldn't even be worrying about the MCAT now. (I say that because MCAT scores typically expire in 3 years and to put yourself in the best position for applying, you might need more time to fix your GPA or simply to have some wiggle room in the event of a failed application cycle.)

1. I recommend that you undergo a post-bacc (this can be formal or informal) so that you can increase your c/sGPA to above a 2.8, and truthfully above a 3.0 is ideal. This may take two or so years to do so, but if you're determined on becoming a physician then it's worth the investment.
2. Onward, I would prepare for the MCAT (you can consider applying to an SMP, which are programs for those who have low GPAs and high MCAT scores, most of which offer an MCAT prep course as well.) When taking the MCAT, make sure you allot enough time to get through content (1-2 months), practice questions and passages (1-2 months), so that you can get a score of ~508 (this will be competitive for all DO schools.) (Note aim for 510+ for MD schools; however, keep in mind that MD schools traditionally prefer higher GPAs than DO schools.)
3. Meanwhile throughout this time, make sure that you're engaged in extracurricular activities (both clinical and non-clinical) - duration is more important than the number of hours invested.

It's also worth mentioning Texas's Academic Fresh Start program (since it's approaching the 10 year mark of your initial undergraduate education.)

Though you're not in the most ideal of situations as an aspiring applicant, it can definitely be done. I just wanted to make clear the path ahead of you isn't the easiest, but if you're determined, then it will be worthwhile. Best of luck!

 

[TommyBravo]

First and foremost, you need to address your GPA, so you shouldn't even be worrying about the MCAT now. (I say that because MCAT scores typically expire in 3 years and to put yourself in the best position for applying, you might need more time to fix your GPA or simply to have some wiggle room in the event of a failed application cycle.)

1. I recommend that you undergo a post-bacc (this can be formal or informal) so that you can increase your c/sGPA to above a 2.8, and truthfully above a 3.0 is ideal. This may take two or so years to do so, but if you're determined on becoming a physician then it's worth the investment.
2. Onward, I would prepare for the MCAT (you can consider applying to an SMP, which are programs for those who have low GPAs and high MCAT scores, most of which offer an MCAT prep course as well.) When taking the MCAT, make sure you allot enough time to get through content (1-2 months), practice questions and passages (1-2 months), so that you can get a score of ~508 (this will be competitive for all DO schools.) (Note aim for 510+ for MD schools; however, keep in mind that MD schools traditionally prefer higher GPAs than DO schools.)
3. Meanwhile throughout this time, make sure that you're engaged in extracurricular activities (both clinical and non-clinical) - duration is more important than the number of hours invested.

It's also worth mentioning Texas's Academic Fresh Start program (since it's approaching the 10 year mark of your initial undergraduate education.)

Though you're not in the most ideal of situations as an aspiring applicant, it can definitely be done. I just wanted to make clear the path ahead of you isn't the easiest, but if you're determined, then it will be worthwhile. Best of luck!

Thank you so much,
Which would be the best way to improve my GPA? Should i go to community college, or try to attend a university such as SBU where i took that non matriculated course.

 

[rufflev]

Thank you so much,
Which would be the best way to improve my GPA? Should i go to community college, or try to attend a university such as SBU where i took that non matriculated course.

Depends on your situation, but if finances allow for it, I'd attend a 4-year university > community college >>> online courses.

 

[DrMidlife]

So, i have spent much of the 2017 year preparing for the upcoming 2018 MCAT this January, but unfortunately this evening has me feeling hopeless.

Unfortunately focusing on the MCAT now is premature. With a 2.22 cumulative you don't have the (a) content mastery nor the (b) basic exam-taking skills that should be in place before you do MCAT prep which is (a) content review and (b) focused exam-taking skills.

I am 27 years old, and immediately after high school i went to college. I majored in biology with a minor in psychology. I had a rough relationship my junior year, and a bad break up that caught the best of me. I did very poorly in school, failing 3 classes. I changed my major to psychology in an attempt to save my GPA, but was for the most part unsuccessful in raising it. Unfortunately i only have a 2.22 cumulative undergraduate GPA. I ended up finishing my degree requirements, and moving back home with my mom. I have since been working as a waiter at restaurants full time.

The good news is that this means there's a dividing line that's easy for reviewers to understand about your path. Early normal college attempt didn't go so well, period of non-college, <classic feel-good story of redemption goes here>

I decided that i wanted to continue my education so i took a class, non-matriculated at stony brook university in NY. The class was CEB 553, biology and human behavior. I received an A in that course. The next semester i decided to go to my local community college, i took 4 classes matriculated towards an associates biology degree, even though i already kinda have the bachelors. 2 of the 4 classes i had already taken in an effort to replace the grades: chem 2 and physics 1.

A completed bachelors is a yes/no factor in med school preparation - it's a box to be checked, and yes, you need to show you have the ability to finish a degree. Beyond that, a completed bachelors is a milestone, not an endpoint.

What matters in getting back into school, with the intent to do med school, is your ongoing discipline, your ongoing exam-taking prowess, and your ongoing ability to keep your **** together. I really think this last point needs to get more emphasis with premeds - generally an ability to not lose your ****, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, is what my colleagues and I in med school and in residency seem to have in common across everything else that's different. Your ability to not look at reddit/twitter/insta/whateverthekidsarelookingat every 30 seconds. Your ability to live more than 5 minutes without a purchased snack item or coffee drink in your hand. Your ability to organize and prioritize, to maintain your focus on your short term and long term goals, despite the super bowl or a new Beyonce album or your boyfriend/girlfriend drama or your existential crisis or the goddamn 2016 election for which some of us honestly needed a non-trivial number of mental health days off that we didn't get because we're doctors and people get sick no matter how we're feeling on any given day.

Both professors could barely speak English

Yeah this is what med school is like as well, gonna let that be the thing that breaks you?

, let alone teach the courses

Yeah this is what med school is like as well, gonna let that be the thing that breaks you?

, so i ended up dropping them,

You'll need a better solution than this - focus on your classmates who are doing well, do what they do.

i just didn't see myself obtaining an A when the entire class was failing every exam, well below a 65, as the exams were departmentalized(made by the department chair, who was unreachable and didnt care that the all the classes taught by these professors were failing, badly).

Yeah this is what med school is like as well, gonna let that be the thing that breaks you?

To me, struggling for a B in these entry level courses that i already received C's in didn't make any sense, so i withdrew and received 2 W's.

Sure, but generally every grade you get, including W's, that isn't an A, from here on, is another big shovelfull of dirt on the grave of your med school dream.

My 2 other courses i received an A and B+ in respectively. Those courses i stuck with were anatomy and physiology and developmental psychology. Both had great professors, and were awesome classes for me to take. They inspired me to become a doctor, and since i have been preparing for the mcat exam.

Every premed needs an elevator pitch for why they want to be a doctor, at any given time, but "I took a class and did well" isn't going to get you much support. As you proceed, continually work on your elevator pitch for why you should get to be a doctor instead of a squeaky clean accomplished 21 year old overachiever who already published peer-reviewed research and is really fun to talk to about science and patient care and has a long record of success working on teams to accomplish objectives. Because that's whom you're up against.

1 CEB 553 =A
1 anp1 =B+
1 Developmental psych= A

Good. That's your warmup. Now it's time to try a class you're scared of, maybe one of the ones you withdrew from.

I have spent the last 9 months making adjustments to my life and preparing for the mcat.
I have done quite a bit of studying, practicing passage based questions and teaching myself physics, organic chemistry, biochemistry, psychology.

MCAT scores expire, and you need a few more years of undergrad before you can apply to med school. It's not MCAT time yet.

I was considering doing a more formal post-Bach program at a private school, but because i have a 2.22 GPA undergrad i don't believe i can even apply as the minimum requirement is a 2.8 for the programs in the AAMC database.

The formal postbac you need is a second bachelors. 2+ years of full time undergrad, with a 3.7+ GPA, in a hard science like biochem or microbio, to demonstrate that you are now a mature high achieving student who is ready for the crushing load of academics in med school.

You can't fix 4 years of bad with 1 year of good.

You can't fix a low GPA at a community college because the rigor of community college is always in question.

You aren't eligible for the nice tidy expensive programs, because they are aimed at the history majors who got a 4.0 and now need to take the prereqs.

You absolutely should not do an SMP until you are ready for med school. After an SMP you'd still get rejected for your 2.2.

So here's one way to do things:
1. get a job at a university, preferably one that has at least science grad programs, ideally one with a med school
2. use that job to take classes for free
3. get A's
4. also get A's
5. meanwhile, get A's
6. use your on-campus job to get access to researchers, clinical opportunities, and academic advisers who actually have seen 10+ years of successful GPA comebacks by students who got into med school
7. get faculty mentors who will help turn you into an academic MACHINE
8. devour SDN and live sources for best practices in preparing for med school AND for preparing to APPLY t med school
9. update your plans as you acquire more info, but use the above for at least 2 years
10. be willing to discover medicine is not what you want, and be willing to walk away when you make that discovery

Best of luck to you.

 

[aformerstudent]

You're 27 already man and you said you went back to school and dropped two courses. My advice is to find another career and just move forward. You are potentially setting yourself up for some serious problems if you continue further. If you had taken those two classes and gotten A's, I'd say just stay with it and see where it goes but you said you dropped them which is a huge red flag that this isn't for you.

I also don't mean that as a disappointment or in some negative way. You'll actually make some money and not be saddled with the debt that will come with the medical school route.

Look at it both ways.

 

[aneres1390]

Thank you so much,
Which would be the best way to improve my GPA? Should i go to community college, or try to attend a university such as SBU where i took that non matriculated course.

My school had a Dean of Admissions of a med school in NY come talk to pre-med students TODAY and we were told Community College courses are not viewed as rigorous, so be careful, I would just take the classes at a 4yr college just to be safe!

 

[Blanky]

First please self reflect more on your poor performance and don't blame it on smoking weed. There is an issue with either your study methods or your work ethic and it sounds likely to be both. Why are you doing MCAT prep when you haven't taken or done well in any of the required courses? You also have 2-3 years or more of GPA repair.

 

[Goro]

So, i have spent much of the 2017 year preparing for the upcoming 2018 MCAT this January, but unfortunately this evening has me feeling hopeless. Here is my story:

I am 27 years old, and immediately after high school i went to college. I majored in biology with a minor in psychology. I had a rough relationship my junior year, and a bad break up that caught the best of me. I did very poorly in school, failing 3 classes. I changed my major to psychology in an attempt to save my GPA, but was for the most part unsuccessful in raising it. Unfortunately i only have a 2.22 cumulative undergraduate GPA. I ended up finishing my degree requirements, and moving back home with my mom. I have since been working as a waiter at restaurants full time.
I decided that i wanted to continue my education so i took a class, non-matriculated at stony brook university in NY. The class was CEB 553, biology and human behavior. I received an A in that course. The next semester i decided to go to my local community college, i took 4 classes matriculated towards an associates biology degree, even though i already kinda have the bachelors. 2 of the 4 classes i had already taken in an effort to replace the grades: chem 2 and physics 1. Both professors could barely speak English, let alone teach the courses, so i ended up dropping them, i just didn't see myself obtaining an A when the entire class was failing every exam, well below a 65, as the exams were departmentalized(made by the department chair, who was unreachable and didnt care that the all the classes taught by these professors were failing, badly). To me, struggling for a B in these entry level courses that i already received C's in didn't make any sense, so i withdrew and received 2 W's. My 2 other courses i received an A and B+ in respectively. Those courses i stuck with were anatomy and physiology and developmental psychology. Both had great professors, and were awesome classes for me to take. They inspired me to become a doctor, and since i have been preparing for the mcat exam. Until i tried to obtain my undergraduate degree, which i owed some money for, and learned i had only a 2.22 cumulative GPA.
So that is a total of 3 grades since my undergraduate 2.22 cumulative GPA.
1 CEB 553 =A
1 anp1 =B+
1 Developmental psych= A

I have spent the last 9 months making adjustments to my life and preparing for the mcat.
I have done quite a bit of studying, practicing passage based questions and teaching myself physics, organic chemistry, biochemistry, psychology.

I was considering doing a more formal post-Bach program at a private school, but because i have a 2.22 GPA undergrad i don't believe i can even apply as the minimum requirement is a 2.8 for the programs in the AAMC database.

I am feeling hopeless. Do i have any options? I feel as though all my mcat prep was a waste, because even with a high score i wont get into any desirable programs. Should i try to get a 2nd bachelors degree? and how long would that take? Should i try to take more classes at stony brook university? and if so undergrad, or in their non-matriculated SBD program (school of professional development.)

All of these mistakes i have made has given me a lot of time for introspection. For the last 10 years i have been a chronic marijuana smoker, and i cant help but blame these poor decisions and lack of performance on my addiction to that drug. I have since quit smoking, and have been living a clean life. I cook all of my meals, try to eat as little processed foods as possible, and organic as much as i can. I have been getting great sleep, all of this to get ready for life in medical school.
Life has shown me that i desire some actual fulfillment instead of getting stoned, and i have absolutely no desire to return to it. My mother has been diagnosed with MS, and watching her condition deteriorate has been probably the strongest driving force on my path towards medicine. The only thing i want to spend the rest of my life doing is trying to research and develop treatments for her, and people alike. I have decided and have had my heart set on medicine for about 2 years now. I cannot conceive of any other career to have other than becoming a doctor. I will do absolutely anything to achieve that dream. I cannot continue to go on living such an unfulfilling life. God has taught me that everything i thought i cared about was actually a huge distraction. If i had all the money in the world i would donate it to those in need, and my family so i could watch them enjoy it. We don't have an infinite time on this earth however, which is why the practice of medicine is for me. I need to become a physician, and my goal is patient care and or surgery. I cannot have a "no" as an answer, but i am feeling hopeless. I know there has to be some way i can make my dream a reality, which brings me here.
To anyone who has read this, i thank you for your time. I am so sorry to burden you even for these brief moments with my sob story. I have done this all to myself, and now i am in a terrible situation but making the strongest effort of my life to get out.
What can i do now? i refuse to believe that all this time has been wasted. I have to persevere and become a doctor. What would be the fastest and most effective way to go about getting into medical school? I have no distractions and a lot of time which i have been dedicating to my MCAT prep. All i do is work, study, and go to the gym daily to maintain a healthy body and mind.
Any advice is greatly and truly appreciated. Thank you!
I know I can do this.

Read this:

• Goro's Advice for DO Applicants in Absence of Grade Replacement (2016-17 cycle)

 

[TommyBravo]

You're 27 already man and you said you went back to school and dropped two courses. My advice is to find another career and just move forward. You are potentially setting yourself up for some serious problems if you continue further. If you had taken those two classes and gotten A's, I'd say just stay with it and see where it goes but you said you dropped them which is a huge red flag that this isn't for you.

I also don't mean that as a disappointment or in some negative way. You'll actually make some money and not be saddled with the debt that will come with the medical school route.

Look at it both ways.

I hear you, but strongly disagree. Had you been in my situation, you would understand. Oh well! Thank you for your input I will keep it in mind.

 

[TommyBravo]

First please self reflect more on your poor performance and don't blame it on smoking weed. There is an issue with either your study methods or your work ethic and it sounds likely to be both. Why are you doing MCAT prep when you haven't taken or done well in any of the required courses? You also have 2-3 years or more of GPA repair.

Smoking marijuana was a serious drug addiction for me; I rarely smoked it to be honest, and most often would dab about half a gram to a full gram a day. This is a huge amount of drug to put into your body. It came with a very expensive dab rig, and was a huge weekly expense that I will now be able to apply to classes. Not only that but the science behind THC is very negative for learning, when you are under the influence of this drug you never enter REM sleep. Your emotions are out of wack, your short to long term memory mechanisms are completely disrupted. Every decision eventually ends up being one you make tomorrow, but tomorrow never comes. I have had a lot of time to decide that despite what anyone says I wont be giving up. My study habits are great now, because I can actually stay awake and focus. Ultimately, I remember what I'm studying to. But this is something I will have to prove for myself. Physics is simple, if you apply enough energy towards something it will culminate, energy cannot be created nor destroyed; maybe transformed, but none of my studies are wasted. I will make this happen, and I appreciate your doubt because it only motivates me. By the way, I took organic chemistry 2x to get the A. Also, I have taken all of the pre reqs for medical school, besides molecular and bio-chem. Both of which are taught in the other classes I took. I will take both of these courses however, and I know just how easy it is to ace an exam. The only thing I struggled with in college, was being consistent. C's are a direct reflection on inconsistent responsibility to hand things in on time, and to study regularly. I did a lot of cramming, and that's why I barely got by, and why I cannot get into the dream career I want now.

 

[TommyBravo]

My school had a Dean of Admissions of a med school in NY come talk to pre-med students TODAY and we were told Community College courses are not viewed as rigorous, so be careful, I would just take the classes at a 4yr college just to be safe!

thank you, I will be attending a very good 4 year university in the fall. Doing my best to get some money together to knock out my credit hours this winter, but the director has told me that unless I can convince an advisor to count the coursework as preparing for a program, that they will not be fundable with federal student aid.

Good news: I nailed my interview and earned a spot volunteering at a hospital the day after my post! Lets go!!! How does one eat an elephant? One spoonful at a time.

 

[Enter]

2 of the 4 classes i had already taken in an effort to replace the grades

Is the 2.2 calculated using grade replacement, or with all grades for all attempts?

 

[TommyBravo]

Is the 2.2 calculated using grade replacement, or with all grades for all attempts?

Do doesn't accept grade replacement anymore but that's for all attempts not grade replacement. I have a 2.315. its okay tho, I'm on the road for an MBA or MPH right now, along with volunteering at my local hospital and training to become an EMT. going nontraditional route, it will work! "don't believe me just watch" - Kanye west