Lowest and Highest Paid Physicians

[BORNagainSTDENT]

The really wealthy doctors are the ones who also have enough business sense to invest their money into things that will generate more cash. Banks practically throw their money at doctors b/c they know their credit is good and they will be able to pack back the loans.

I am curious if having the extensive medical knowledge that a doctor has, enables he or she to know the right time to invest in medical related stock.

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[BORNagainSTDENT]

If I ever become a doctor I was thinking of not actually getting paid in money, but instead having my patients bring me old clothes and potluck style meals to share with my family.

 

[lDanny]

found this on cnbc.com.. http://www.cnbc.com/id/23918484/

 

[Long Dong]

found this on cnbc.com.. http://www.cnbc.com/id/23918484/

There you have it gas makes the most money.

 

[BORNagainSTDENT]

My psychiatrist as well as my mothers and friends charges about 250-300$ per 45 minute visit and does not accept insurance. I was wondering in private practice how much that would equate to a year roughly. I am sure since this is NYC the prices of renting out paying off an office are much more than other places.

 

[scrubswannabe]

That's amazing how doctors and dentists make up the entire list pretty much.

 

[gstrub]

Hmmm...I'm not sure these are the top jobs.

What's the minimum salary of an NBA player? NFL? MLB?

CEO's got lumped in at ~140k? Not last time I checked. Is that an "average"? Are these numbers real averages? I'm calling BS.

 

[34140]

If I ever become a doctor I was thinking of not actually getting paid in money, but instead having my patients bring me old clothes and potluck style meals to share with my family.

lol

 

[Excelsius]

found this on cnbc.com.. http://www.cnbc.com/id/23918484/

That link doesn't provide any useful information. It must measure the averages way too much - a general surgeon is not the same as a thoracic surgeon or a neurosurgeon. This clumping everything together is the reason why it seems that an anesthesiologist is the highest paid profession among doctors, which is not true compared to some specialties who make $400K on average.

And what about corporate lawyers, hedge fund managers, and even some plumbers? That article is complete rubbish and they should do their research before publishing wrong information like that. All it does is perpetuate the myth that only the doctors make any money in this country. Perhaps what's worse is that you guys are medical students and yet you buy into this libel. As medical students, you should email the editor tell him a couple of things. Articles like these are the reason why the public has got the wrong idea about doctors.

 

[Knicks]

If I ever become a doctor I was thinking of not actually getting paid in money, but instead having my patients bring me old clothes and potluck style meals to share with my family.

Win.

 

[BORNagainSTDENT]

Knicks, that sig you have is very helpfull, Im not even Jk Im going to write that down even thou its sad that I still make those trivial mistakes.

 

[BORNagainSTDENT]

My psychiatrist as well as my mothers and friends charges about 250-300$ per 45 minute visit and does not accept insurance. I was wondering in private practice how much that would equate to a year roughly. I am sure since this is NYC the prices of renting out paying off an office are much more than other places.

?????

 

[michaelrack]

why does psychiatry get paid so little.

Psychiatrists do pretty well, at least compared to primary care docs. It isn't too difficult to make 200k as a psychiatrist.

 

[Law2Doc]

i read somewhere that retinal surgeons make over $1M in private group practice

Probably on an eye chart.

Almost nobody going into medicine today is going to earn $1M. The game has changed. Foolish to count chickens when you are holding a basket of snake eggs. The average is less than a quarter of that, and, thanks to insurance company stranglehold on reimbursements and a push for lower healthcare costs, expected to drop.

 

[Law2Doc]

Psychiatrists do pretty well, at least compared to primary care docs. It isn't too difficult to make 200k as a psychiatrist.

Their average income is toward the lower end of physicians, but that may reflect a lot of scaled back hours and their relative lack of procedures.

 

[BORNagainSTDENT]

Probably on an eye chart.

Almost nobody going into medicine today is going to earn $1M. The game has changed. Foolish to count chickens when you are holding a basket of snake eggs. The average is less than a quarter of that, and, thanks to insurance company stranglehold on reimbursements and a push for lower healthcare costs, expected to drop.

How was the business different years ago, how much did they make then.

 

[Instatewaiter]

When lasik just came out people could make a fortune. I know one doctor was charging 5K in cash per eye and was doing around 30 eyes per day. You do the math.

 

[Law2Doc]

How was the business different years ago, how much did they make then.

The percentage of folks who paid by insurance vs cash was different. Now it's all insurance, and so somebody else sets the prices, through reimbursements. Also educational debt wasn't so high. And barriers to opening practices were lower. And paperwork and related costs were significantly less. And overhead was less. The amount they could make then is the amount folks on this thread incorreclty seem to think folks can make now. Nobody going into medicine today is likely to earn a million dollars from salary.

 

[kutastha]

Medicine is what you make it. Work at a big hospital as an internist and make close to nothing or specialize make quite a bit more doing procedures. See Medicare patients and hope you get paid or join a private practice and live a bit more comfortably. I think it's more what you want to do and whom you wish to serve.

How strange to open up a thread I posted in seven years ago. My how things have changed.

 

[iduwanna]

I keep getting emails that suggest pomegranate juice will put us all out of business.

what to do?

 

[sirus_virus]

The highest paid physicians today will not be the hghest paid physicians 10 years from now. The lowest paid physicians today will not be the lowest paid physicians 10 years from now. Any medstudent who thinks they have the financial dynamics in medicine figured out is going to be surprised how things play out when they actually start practicing.

 

[BORNagainSTDENT]

The percentage of folks who paid by insurance vs cash was different. Now it's all insurance, and so somebody else sets the prices, through reimbursements. Also educational debt wasn't so high. And barriers to opening practices were lower. And paperwork and related costs were significantly less. And overhead was less. The amount they could make then is the amount folks on this thread incorreclty seem to think folks can make now. Nobody going into medicine today is likely to earn a million dollars from salary.

So how much can a psych make now. 300$ an hour seems like a lot to me.
But I dont know how much any of the other costs are? thanks

 

[badasshairday]

The highest paid physicians today will not be the hghest paid physicians 10 years from now. The lowest paid physicians today will not be the lowest paid physicians 10 years from now. Any medstudent who thinks they have the financial dynamics in medicine figured out is going to be surprised how things play out when they actually start practicing.

So true. 15 years ago anesthesiology and radiology were in the poopers when it came to compensation. Now, they are doing well. In the future? Who knows?

20-30 years ago it was all about general surgery and internal med. They made bank. Compensation went down. Derm didn't get $ or respect back in those days, now they are ballers. Internal med was way harder to get into then derm.

 

[Knicks]

Knicks, that sig you have is very helpfull, Im not even Jk Im going to write that down even thou its sad that I still make those trivial mistakes.

Yeah man,

I see way too many people make those kinds of mistakes. It's particularly bad if english is their 1st language too.


I'm glad I could be of help.

 

[BORNagainSTDENT]

Yeah man,

I see way too many people make those kinds of mistakes. It's particularly bad if english is their 1st language too.


I'm glad I could be of help.

WEll I never learned correctly because of un diagnosed ADD. Now I can actually pay attention to this ****.

 

[Twitch]

The highest paid physicians today will not be the hghest paid physicians 10 years from now. The lowest paid physicians today will not be the lowest paid physicians 10 years from now. Any medstudent who thinks they have the financial dynamics in medicine figured out is going to be surprised how things play out when they actually start practicing.

The quote below from the previous page in this thread (7yrs ago) begs to differ.

...The highest paid physicians usually include: neurosurgery, cardiothoracic surgery, hand surgery, orthopedics, plastics.

The lowest (always a three way battle for the bottom): psychiatry, pediatrics, and family practice.

 

[meister]

Wow when this thread was first posted I hadn't even started my senior year of high school yet. I had gotten my license the year before. LOL

 

[Long Dong]

Here is a survey from 2008 http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensation/amga_physician_compensation_survey.htm

 

[mdfirst]

My uncle is in Ob-Gyn and he makes well over 400k/year. He works at like 3 different clinics though, and he works with medicaid, under served populations. go figure.

 

[ZonaRidicularis]

z

 

[ZonaRidicularis]

z

 

[medhearter]

Type physician salary survey into any search engine and you should get different figures.

Generally the South and Midwest tend to have the highest physician salaries, due to the least penetration of managed care.

Ironically, California, with the second highest cost of living in the country, tend to have the lowest physician salaries.

The highest paid physicians usually include: neurosurgery, cardiothoracic surgery, hand surgery, orthopedics, plastics.

The lowest (always a three way battle for the bottom): psychiatry, pediatrics, and family practice.

That's not ironic at all. With a greater cost of living comes a greater movement away from a privitized system. And with that physician salaries decrease, but for the betterment of the people

 

[ar2388]

http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm

 

[deuist]

Wow... what? Those numbers sound crazy to me. I think the inflation probably has something to do with the big city but I would never guess that it would be that large.

Not inflated at all. When you're a shrink who doesn't take insurance, the sky's the limit. One of my attendings charges $400 an hour in her private practice.

 

[MossPoh]

So true. 15 years ago anesthesiology and radiology were in the poopers when it came to compensation. Now, they are doing well. In the future? Who knows?

20-30 years ago it was all about general surgery and internal med. They made bank. Compensation went down. Derm didn't get $ or respect back in those days, now they are ballers. Internal med was way harder to get into then derm.

Radiology is going back down. 90s were the bigtime. What my dad made averaging 60 or 70 cases a day now takes over 100 cases to get the same amount. They are just reading more since every person complaining of a headache gets sent in for a CT.

 

[jettavr6]

Psychiatry is on the way up in terms of salary and compensation. What's different about psychiatry is that a psychiatrist will often work in a clinic or hospital and practice on the side if they are ambitious. Others do consults, pain management, detox. Therefore, the pay scale really varies a lot as it's really up to the individual how much they want to work, etc.

A psychiatrist will have to work very hard NOT to make 150k on a simple 10-4:30PM type of job. Most psychiatrists that I know are making in the 250k to 350k range after 5 years of residency. Two of my colleagues are making over 400k. Again, it all depends on the person and how much they want to work.

The other part of this is the amount of money some of the 150k psychiatrists are actually making on years of investment and business acumen. One psychiatrist that I know was once making twice what an ortho friend of mine was making by trading stocks all day long...

It all depends. Go into the specialty that you want to practice and that lets you lead the lifestyle that you want.

Yes, I'm a psychiatrist.

 

[Sociopath]

On a similar note, - those of you bashing the dying breed of GP's I know of a

GP practicing in Brooklyn, New York making 420,000 a year (extreme case I

know but interesting). He accepts various insurances including medicaid.

 

[oreosandsake]

found this on cnbc.com.. http://www.cnbc.com/id/23918484/

highest paying state - Utah

highest paying state for FM - kansas

doh!

 

[Blesbok]

now look who's cocky
There are many noble professions and I do not believe that medicine is as noble as people think. Too many selfish doctors in the field.
Fireman on the other hand is a noble profession, they risk their lives to save live

Actually, according to the definition posted above, medicine is the most noble profession as a whole that I can think of.

I can't think of another professional title that holds more nobility through the entire profession than medicine. Sure, president or CEO, but that really isn't a profession, but one person out of a profession.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

The highest paid physicians today will not be the hghest paid physicians 10 years from now. The lowest paid physicians today will not be the lowest paid physicians 10 years from now. Any medstudent who thinks they have the financial dynamics in medicine figured out is going to be surprised how things play out when they actually start practicing.

If we take a comment like this to be true, then would anyone care to guess what the "hot" residencies might be in ten years or so?

 

[MsJLewis]

Geriatrics, Ortho, Anesthesia (Pain Management)??

There's gonna be a lot of aging baby boomer mofos around that will need gen docs, hip replacements, and pain management of their ailments.

But who knows!

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

Geriatrics, Ortho, Anesthesia (Pain Management)??

There's gonna be a lot of aging baby boomer mofos around that will need gen docs, hip replacements, and pain management of their ailments.

But who knows!

That means they'll make less. Medicare will realize how much money is being dumped into keeping the boomers alive, they'll want to cut costs, so they cut reimbursement for these common procedures.

 

[sjdsn135]

When lasik just came out people could make a fortune. I know one doctor was charging 5K in cash per eye and was doing around 30 eyes per day. You do the math.

If this doctor worked 100 days out of the year at this pace (the other days would probably be taken up with consults and weekends, etc) he or she would generate revenue upwards of $15 million. This seems high.

Does anyone know approximately what percentage of revenue generated a physician personally takes home?

 

[PenguinHead]

Official data from the goverment.

This one is organized by state. http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oessrcst.htm

This has all the links on it. http://www.bls.gov/bls/blswage.htm

 

[ThinkTooMuch]

Here is a survey from 2008 http://www.cejkasearch.com/compensation/amga_physician_compensation_survey.htm

hmmm, i wonder if the extra years spent specializing are worth it financially? I mean as a internentioanal radiologist you come out making about twice what a IM doc makes.

 

[ThinkTooMuch]

On a similar note, - those of you bashing the dying breed of GP's I know of a

GP practicing in Brooklyn, New York making 420,000 a year (extreme case I

know but interesting). He accepts various insurances including medicaid.

which is equivalent to 200k in almost any place, except cali. ny and ca cost of living WAY high.

 

[asmallchild]

which is equivalent to 200k in almost any place, except cali. ny and ca cost of living WAY high.

I don't think so. 400K is a very impressive total if you were working in midtown Manhattan. Cost of living isn't as high in Brooklyn and if you can't make it on 400K, it's time to reassess how you're living.

 

[basupran]

I don't necessarily agree with everything this guy says, but I thought that this was interesting
http://www.er-doctor.com/doctor_income.html

A Novel Look at Physician Income: Why a medical career is the wrong career if money is one of your primary motives

The cliché about rich doctors is so well-known that it verges on redundancy in the minds of many people. However, I will demonstrate how people in seemingly much less lucrative jobs can outearn doctors. For example, who would think that a UPS driver or auto mechanic could earn more than a doctor? Probably no one except me and, in a few minutes, you, too.

The January 26, 2004 edition of U.S. News & World Report said that UPS drivers earn $60,000 per year. The average physician income is usually quoted as being $160,000 to $200,000 per year, so it may seem preposterous to claim that UPS drivers can earn more than doctors. Just wait.

According to information given to me by a UPS representative on May 13, 2005, UPS drivers require no specialized education. Thus, a person could begin working for UPS immediately after high school. In contrast, a would-be doctor requires many years of education for which he is paid nothing. In fact, doctors typically incur substantial debt to pay for college and medical school. So UPS drivers are being paid while those who aspire to become doctors are paying for the privilege of pursuing their dream.

Let's analyze how this affects their net income. We will begin looking at total net income for physicians at year 8, once they graduate from medical school with an average debt around $100,000. Students may make small amounts of money while in college, but this (and much more) is immediately spent on tuition, fees, books, supplies, and other college expenses. Beer, for instance.

This data indicates that:

It takes about 18 years for a doctor to approximately equal the lifetime earnings of a UPS driver working full-time.
It takes about 27 years for a doctor to approximately equal the lifetime earnings of a UPS driver working as many hours as I did to become a doctor, then practice medicine.
In reality, it will take longer for the doc to "catch up" for the following reasons:

I did not consider the interest that doctors pay on their student loan debts. This interest often leaves doctors with more than their original debt at the end of their residency years. Thus, while they may make $160,000 (total) during a four-year residency, they may leave it with $130,000 of debt.
I calculated this comparison using a four-year residency program during years 9 through 12. Some residency programs are shorter, but many are longer (thus keeping doctors relatively impoverished for a longer time). Furthermore, many students take longer than eight years to complete college and medical school—and those are the lucky ones who make it. Most students who try to become doctors never succeed, thus incurring debt for a career that never materializes.
The average doctor salary may not even be $180,000. Some sources pegged it at $160,000.
Doctors do not earn their average salary the first year they begin working as an attending (year 13 in this example). It typically takes several years for their income to plateau. I began working for less than half (even adjusting for inflation) what I would ultimately earn as my peak income five years later.
Doctors sometimes must "buy into" the practice they wish to join. They can't just show up and say, "OK, I'm working now, so start paying me." For that privilege, they may have to shell out $100,000 or more, which is sometimes demanded as an up-front fee. Few young doctors have that kind of money, so they usually must borrow it—further increasing their debt.
Because of their schooling, the earning years for doctors are compressed into a shorter period of time, thus increasing their income tax rates relative to UPS drivers. Translation: Even if the doctor earns the same total amount of money as a UPS driver, the doc's tax rate will be higher, leaving him with less after-tax income.
Doctors must pay steep licensing fees to state and federal government regulatory agencies. They could also be sued and lose everything they've ever made.
Students often receive money from relatives and sometimes family friends because they are needy students. UPS drivers, and most other adults, are not similarly showered with such money. This money is rarely reported to the government or included in statistical analyses, so the educational cost is actually higher than you may think.
The burnout rate for doctors in some specialties is so high that doctors may quit well before age 65. For example, the average longevity for ER doctors is nine years.
Doctors do not work anything close to a 40-hour week! I worked about 110 hours per week (see * below) during my training. As an attending physician, I averaged about 40 hours per week of paid work and 15 to 20 (or more) hours per week of unpaid but mandatory work, such as working past the end of my shift to "clean up" (complete the care for) patients, do dictations, sign medical records, fill out insurance and other forms, attend various staff and committee meetings, participate in CME (continuing medical education) activities, and on and on. To make this a fair comparison for income potential, we should consider what a UPS driver could make if he worked two shifts (or another job) for years 1 through 12, then a half-time job in addition to his primary UPS job. Therefore, after 12 years such a UPS driver who worked as many hours as I did could have made $1,440,000. After 18 years, the total income would be $1,980,000, easily surpassing the total doctor income. The doctor might catch up after 27 years, if not for the aforementioned factors.
* What about the new 80 hour per week work restrictions for residents? First, it is still equivalent to working two full-time jobs. Second, that is 80 hours per week spent in the hospital. It does not account for the substantial amount of reading that residents must do in their "off hours."

UPS drivers typically do not seem to be as wealthy as doctors because, like just about everyone else, they usually begin spending money as soon as they make it. But what if we made this comparison even more fair, and had the UPS driver live as frugally as the student/doctor for years 1 through 12? If a UPS driver scrimped as I did, he could invest most of his salary, reaping the benefits of many years of compound interest.

If you are still debating about the financial wisdom of forgoing a doctor's smock for the seemingly plebeian brown UPS uniforms, consider this: Like many other workers, UPS drivers receive a raft of benefits. Many doctors receive nothing but salary (that was the case for almost every job I had as a physician). As an independent contractor, I received no health insurance, dental insurance, optical insurance, unemployment insurance, life insurance, sick pay, overtime pay, personal days, workers' compensation benefits, or pension. Furthermore, I didn't just pay the usual Social Security contribution; I also paid the portion normally contributed by the employer. A state "Small Business" tax further eroded my earnings. And I had to buy my own uniforms and pay someone to embroider my name on them!

UPS drivers are well-paid, but receive less than some other truck drivers. In the December, 2004 Time Inside Business, Bill Zollars, chairman and CEO of Yellow Roadway, the largest trucking firm in the United States, said that his average driver makes $70,000 per year in addition to good benefits.

If maximizing income is your goal, forget about being a truck driver or a doctor. On February 18, 2004, Paul Harvey reported that auto mechanics willing to move to in-demand areas can earn up to $120,000 per year, with employers eager to hire them offering inducements such as paying for their tools and education (some technicians earn two-year certificates or degrees in auto repair, while other receive only high school-level training).

If you want even more money, consider working as a contractor putting in basements. One of my friends, a well-to-do pharmaceutical representative, grumbled how he made less money than his uneducated brother-in-law who worked six months of the year building basements, netting him over $350,000 (adjusted for interim inflation). Furthermore, he usually arranged his deals so he was paid in cash, which enabled him to hide most of his income from the IRS.

Perhaps you want a job that is less intellectually demanding than building basements. If so, do what I used to do: mow lawns. At my peak, I earned wages that are now equivalent to $100 per hour. And that was just payment for my own labor. If I were smarter, I would have hired people to work for me, paid them $20 per hour, and kept the rest as profit. I could also build more of my inventions that increase the efficiency of lawn mowing, thus decreasing the time required to mow a yard. Customers pay for getting their lawns mowed, not for how many hours you waste on mowing with antiquated technology.

Want more examples? According to Forbes magazine (March 15, 2004), Oneida's workers in New York average $30 per hour with benefits. That's $60,000 per year for making eating utensils. Need more dough? In "Confessions of a Personal Trainer" in the July 12, 2004 edition of Newsweek, Mike Torchia said that he makes $150 per hour. That's $300,000 per year for 40-hour workweeks . . . for helping housewives shed flab. In the ER, I made half that for saving lives and working much longer weeks after an incomparably longer and more intensive education.


click the link

 

[asmallchild]

UPS drivers can make 120K?

 

[basupran]

UPS drivers can make 120K?

His argument was that ups drivers work 34hrs/wk (40hrs a wk, 5 of which are for lunch and 1 of which is for break).

If you had the UPS truck driver double time, he would make ~120k/yr, probably more if they paid time and a half. Residents work '80 hrs a wk' and attendings work more than 60 hrs/wk. When a UPS driver goes home, his day is done. When an MD goes home, he has to read, finish dictations, study for tests, etc.