Lowest URM GPA u know matriculated

[doctorold]

What is the lowest URM GPA u know of that made it to med school? What school?

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[BlackCalvin]

I don't have any anecdotal evidence but this graph should give you an idea at least for african american applicants
http://i40.tinypic.com/ayud6o.jpg

 

[ChemEngMD]

https://www.aamc.org/download/321520/data/2012factstable25-5.pdf

^^Grid of URM applicants between 2010-2012 by GPA and MCAT.

Someone got in with between a 1.47-1.99 but I'm sure there was some story behind that.

 

[La Presse]

What is the lowest URM GPA u know of that made it to med school? What school?

I took a look a cursory glance at your MDapps and finally understood your rationale behind asking this question. I first want to make it known that the widely accepted cutoff for MD and DO programs is a 3.0 and even then, there is usually evidence of a viable candidate, usually in the form of standardized test scores, superior clinical excellence at the hospital, or perhaps time allocated in the research lab marked by posters, presentations, or publications. Leadership within or outside these activities are valued immensely in the process as well. Do not count yourself as an exception to the gpa cutoff rule. Applicants are SELDOM considered with their grades that low, regardless of the circumstances. The application process is so competitive, that one is likely to be screened out in the preliminary evaluation.

My advice to you seems in parallel with what you have noted in your MDapps. Retaking courses from your previous degree and tackling upper division science courses is the only recourse unless you are investing more money and time with advanced degrees or a postbacc. You should also be prepping for your mcat and pursuing the typical premedical activities. You are a nontrad, so I am assuming you have done some spectacular things with your life and hopefully when your application is assessed, the committee will take note of that.

If you do not mind me asking, how many semesters do you have until you reapply and how many credits are you taking in each?

 

[2105]

I've attended panels for the medical school at my undergrad and they have had a gpa as low as 2.1 and MCAT as low as 22, and its ranked in the top 20 univerisity. I would assume they would have had something extraordinary about their application as mentioned above.

 

[touchpause13]

In. Lol

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[Lollygag]

I knoww someone with a 19 MCAT that got into a DO school. I'm not sure what his gpa was. However, this lady at his church was the dean of admissions and that's what got him in. But their making him take biochem and some other classes over the summer that he has to pass to matriculated.

I'm all for affirmative action. But really, their needs to be a line lol 19?? Really??? Lol

 

[La Presse]

I knoww someone with a 19 MCAT that got into a DO school. I'm not sure what his gpa was. However, this lady at his church was the dean of admissions and that's what got him in. But their making him take biochem and some other classes over the summer that he has to pass to matriculated.

I'm all for affirmative action. But really, their needs to be a line lol 19?? Really??? Lol

That is absolutely horrific. Lazy kids.

 

[ChemEngMD]

I knoww someone with a 19 MCAT that got into a DO school. I'm not sure what his gpa was. However, this lady at his church was the dean of admissions and that's what got him in. But their making him take biochem and some other classes over the summer that he has to pass to matriculated.

I'm all for affirmative action. But really, their needs to be a line lol 19?? Really??? Lol

That is absolutely horrific. Lazy kids.

Obviously the admissions person saw something in the individual... if they are incapable then they will not pass their classes or score well enough on their STEP exams...there are checks and balances in place and I don't feel it is right to call anyone "lazy" when you do not know their situation

 

[iave9963]

I don't feel it is right to call anyone "lazy" when you do not know their situation

 

[La Presse]

Obviously the admissions person saw something in the individual... if they are incapable then they will not pass their classes or score well enough on their STEP exams...there are checks and balances in place and I don't feel it is right to call anyone "lazy" when you do not know their situation

Herp. There are checkpoints in place to ensure that students know some of the recurring concepts they will see again in medical school, and to test their critical thinking skills. Tell me, what allows a students to score extremely low on tests or in classes consistently and makes them unable to trend? Laziness in my opinion. If there is familial trouble, it would be best to take some time off or seek help from a professional, but when i see numbers like 2.7 and 19, that is disgraceful. That is BELOW the standard. If I were on a committee, I would not consider such a student as a viable candidate for medical school, urm or otherwise.

Students can also say that they do not understand the material, but there are materials and resources for those who are struggling. Students who get in with scores like these scare the hell out of me. If they were truly suffering from one thing or another during their undergraduate years, will they be academically capable of handling the material in medical school, which I might, is twice as dense and goes at a faster pace than that any undergraduate science course.

 

[ChemEngMD]

Herp. There are checkpoints in place to ensure that students know some of the recurring concepts they will see again in medical school, and to test their critical thinking skills. Tell me, what allows a students to score extremely low on tests or in classes consistently and makes them unable to trend? Laziness in my opinion. If there is familial trouble, it would be best to take some time off or seek help from a professional, but when i see numbers like 2.7 and 19, that is disgraceful. That is BELOW the standard. If I were on a committee, I would not consider such a student as a viable candidate for medical school, urm or otherwise.

Students can also say that they do not understand the material, but there are materials and resources for those who are struggling. Students who get in with scores like these scare the hell out of me. If they were truly suffering from one thing or another during their undergraduate years, will they be academically capable of handling the material in medical school, which I might, is twice as dense and goes at a faster pace than that any undergraduate science course.

I don't know what makes you some sort of authority figure on the process, but numbers are NOT the only thing that adcomms are looking for. I would be much more concerned with the rich kid who got in without taking the MCAT because daddy wrote a check (http://www.gainesville.com/article/20080410/NEWS/804100319).

My point is that there are checks and balances once you get into medical school. If you get in with a 2.3 or a 4.0 nobody is going to a f*** if those same students have similar STEP scores or even if the 2.3 beats the 4.0. In no way does MCAT or GPA dictate how good or effective of a doctor you will be. There are students with 4.0 40s who get beat regularly for top residency spots by "average" and "below average" matriculants who upped their game in med school.

The student who is admitted must: A) pass their medical school classes B) pass their STEP tests C) do well in clerkships and rotations D) get accepted into a residency program BEFORE they are able to treat patients independently. At this point they will have proven themselves capable or incapable...nobody with half a brain is going to care about their C- in orgo or the D+ in calc 2.

Oh. And get off your high horse, because, while medical school may be difficult, I have heard from multiple (I'm a non-traditional and many of my friends my age are already 3rd and 4th years) sources that those who studied engineering actually found the engineering curriculum to be more "dense" and "difficult" than the rote memorization stuff they've had to do in medical school. You do not know this individual's major or circumstance.

Finally, if you think that you have the right to judge someone's character based upon something such as numbers then I pray to God that you never sit on an adcomm. There is so much more to a person than that. And I'm not sure if you are aware or not but the term "lazy" is a very charged word when referring to minorities...there are few insults that I would consider fighting words, but that's up there.

 

[iave9963]

I don't know what makes you some sort of authority figure on the process, but numbers are NOT the only thing that adcomms are looking for. I would be much more concerned with the rich kid who got in without taking the MCAT because daddy wrote a check (http://www.gainesville.com/article/20080410/NEWS/804100319).

My point is that there are checks and balances once you get into medical school. If you get in with a 2.3 or a 4.0 nobody is going to a f*** if those same students have similar STEP scores or even if the 2.3 beats the 4.0. In no way does MCAT or GPA dictate how good or effective of a doctor you will be. There are students with 4.0 40s who get beat regularly for top residency spots by "average" and "below average" matriculants who upped their game in med school.

The student who is admitted must: A) pass their medical school classes B) pass their STEP tests C) do well in clerkships and rotations D) get accepted into a residency program BEFORE they are able to treat patients independently. At this point they will have proven themselves capable or incapable...nobody with half a brain is going to care about their C- in orgo or the D+ in calc 2.

Oh. And get off your high horse, because, while medical school may be difficult, I have heard from multiple (I'm a non-traditional and many of my friends my age are already 3rd and 4th years) sources that those who studied engineering actually found the engineering curriculum to be more "dense" and "difficult" than the rote memorization stuff they've had to do in medical school. You do not know this individual's major or circumstance.

Finally, if you think that you have the right to judge someone's character based upon something such as numbers then I pray to God that you never sit on an adcomm. There is so much more to a person than that. And I'm not sure if you are aware or not but the term "lazy" is a very charged word when referring to minorities...there are few insults that I would consider fighting words, but that's up there.

 

[PunkmedGirl]

I don't know what makes you some sort of authority figure on the process, but numbers are NOT the only thing that adcomms are looking for. I would be much more concerned with the rich kid who got in without taking the MCAT because daddy wrote a check (http://www.gainesville.com/article/20080410/NEWS/804100319).

My point is that there are checks and balances once you get into medical school. If you get in with a 2.3 or a 4.0 nobody is going to a f*** if those same students have similar STEP scores or even if the 2.3 beats the 4.0. In no way does MCAT or GPA dictate how good or effective of a doctor you will be. There are students with 4.0 40s who get beat regularly for top residency spots by "average" and "below average" matriculants who upped their game in med school.

The student who is admitted must: A) pass their medical school classes B) pass their STEP tests C) do well in clerkships and rotations D) get accepted into a residency program BEFORE they are able to treat patients independently. At this point they will have proven themselves capable or incapable...nobody with half a brain is going to care about their C- in orgo or the D+ in calc 2.

Oh. And get off your high horse, because, while medical school may be difficult, I have heard from multiple (I'm a non-traditional and many of my friends my age are already 3rd and 4th years) sources that those who studied engineering actually found the engineering curriculum to be more "dense" and "difficult" than the rote memorization stuff they've had to do in medical school. You do not know this individual's major or circumstance.

Finally, if you think that you have the right to judge someone's character based upon something such as numbers then I pray to God that you never sit on an adcomm. There is so much more to a person than that. And I'm not sure if you are aware or not but the term "lazy" is a very charged word when referring to minorities...there are few insults that I would consider fighting words, but that's up there.

Well said.

 

[La Presse]

You guys are very dense. You are actually considering people with extremely subpar numbers to be considered for admissions. I don't even know what to say.

A 2.7 and a 19 MCAT are very dismal, to say the least. Realistically, they would get screened out of every single school--at least the ones that use such measures. What on earth would an admissions committee member see that they would invite this person for interview? Evidence of scholastic achievement in previous coursework? Nope. I can only comment peripherally on an applicant having significant ECs in the absence of a solid academic profile, but they would hardly make up for poor grades. The article you posted about the kid lacking an MCAT score is very synonymous to the applicant who had a connection, either as a legacy or as a friend of a prominent board member. But keep in mind that they are both exceptions. These are not normal applicants.

Moreover, it seems to be that test taking skills are highly valued in medical schools, especially when it's time to sit for STEP 1, 2 (CK and CS), and 3. Even the acclaimed 'backup' schools are very unlikely to accept a candidate like this. Howard receives about 7000 applications yearly and the odds that an applicant of that caliber can survive the competitive pool is almost nonexistent. Nevertheless, HBC medical schools contain a USMLE Step 1 pass rate below the national average, which means students who do not do well typically retest. To me, this suggests that students with a poor academic backgrounds were admitted.

So what were you saying? One's grades do matter and the fact that you think it's acceptable to allow someone with such low academic achievement says a lot about you.You know what it also says? It says that those with poor scores tend to lack the study skills necessary to hold their own during their preclinical years.

Grades low? Change your major.

 

[ChemEngMD]

You guys are very dense. You are actually considering people with extremely subpar numbers to be considered for admissions. I don't even know what to say.

A 2.7 and a 19 MCAT are very dismal, to say the least. Realistically, they would get screened out of every single school--at least the ones that use such measures. What on earth would an admissions committee member see that they would invite this person for interview? Evidence of scholastic achievement in previous coursework? Nope. I can only comment peripherally on an applicant having significant ECs in the absence of a solid academic profile, but they would hardly make up for poor grades. The article you posted about the kid lacking an MCAT score is very synonymous to the applicant who had a connection, either as a legacy or as a friend of a prominent board member. But keep in mind that they are both exceptions. These are not normal applicants.

Moreover, it seems to be that test taking skills are highly valued in medical schools, especially when it's time to sit for STEP 1, 2 (CK and CS), and 3. Even the acclaimed 'backup' schools are very unlikely to accept a candidate like this. Howard receives about 7000 applications yearly and the odds that an applicant of that caliber can survive the competitive pool is almost nonexistent. Nevertheless, HBC medical schools contain a USMLE Step 1 pass rate below the national average, which means students who do not do well typically retest. To me, this suggests that students with a poor academic backgrounds were admitted.

So what were you saying? One's grades do matter and the fact that you think it's acceptable to allow someone with such low academic achievement says a lot about you.You know what it also says? It says that those with poor scores tend to lack the study skills necessary to hold their own during their preclinical years.

Grades low? Change your major.

My dear friend, you are incredibly dense so as to not understand that not everyone has the same academic or social background and sometimes they just need a chance .

The types of standardized tests such as the MCAT and SAT are notoriously culturally-biased towards the majority and adcomms who are both culturally sensitive and practical understand this. I am going to take a wild guess and say you probably are not a URM (and if you are, you're probably quite privileged or in denial lol) and probably are not rural or urban underserved in some way. If you were, you would understand the difference that years of sub-par public schooling and a lack of mentorship can have on students, leading to academic issues.

I know that your world has probably been one where you were told that the way to med school was a 4.0 and that you deserved a spot after working oh so hard in college classes that barely prepare you for a med school curriculum. Guess what. Getting a 4.0 while doing ECs is not nearly as difficult as getting a 3.0 while working 2 jobs and supporting your family. Period. Not everyone leads this "traditional" college lifestyle and that is definitely noted on someone's application. Maybe they couldn't afford MCAT practice material or tests because they had a kid/grandmother/sibling to feed? Maybe they had a tough time studying for tests because around 11 every night gun shots and sirens started distracting them and they had to console their child? Most people's diagnostic tests fall in this 18-24 range. I would much rather have a capable doctor who has worked hard during undergraduate and has had life experiences that are pertinent and is culturally sensitive and a nice person than someone who has aced every test in their life and is a complete as*hole for it. Think outside of the box and realize not everyone is in the same situation.

This is my last post on this topic . I "get" what you're trying to say, but I think that this is something that is just outside the realm of your preconceived pre-med box and you are choosing not to believe it. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you're probably young and have had a pretty great life and just haven't seen enough to understand the types of difficulties people go through. I advise that you increase your EQ (or at least get really good at faking empathy to adcomms) before you matriculate.

 

[Belle Melodie]

I'm not going to sit here and sugar coat anything for anyone. I also will not bash the OP.

But i will say this, I am URM, I am also a mother of 2 and a full time student. My gpa is not what I would like it to be and I have yet to take the MCAT.

IF medical schools have a particular requirement for admissions then I will not question that and I will make it my business to attain those requirements whether it be the MCAT, cgpa, sgpa, EC's, etc..

Sure EVERYONE gets a second chance..... They get a second chance at making up for their bad grades. That means, retaking courses below C+, doing post baccs or SMP's etc.

No one is asking OP to get straight A's on his first try. Just to have a bit more consideration for the "competition" and apply with some stats that can meet the requirements of the Medical schools.

If he gets in with subpar grades thats great for him but what about those that actually bust their a*s to get 3.9 gpa and 35 MCAT?

What do you say to a person who is a nontrad, financially provides for their family, did a post bacc, has excellent grades and MCAT score (and all that other stuff) and gets rejected to a school that OP got into? Are you going to argue that he isnt URM? Are you going to argue that the other candidate didnt go to a public school or that the OP's family is much bigger than his?

Poor grades are no excuse. There are millions of student help aids, lots of school organizations to help you succeed.

I get it, some people can't quit their jobs and that makes things alot harder but as i stated previously there are so many applicants who are doing the same things or much more and are able to bring their grade to the requirement level.

Adcoms have seen hundreds of thousands of applications and im sure that unless OP has some major/spectacular info on his app that he will probably not be considered for admissions.

With that being said, I do suggest that OP bring the GPA up to the required standards even for DO schools and retake the MCAT at least to bring it up to a 27.

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

I'm not going to sit here and sugar coat anything for anyone. I also will not bash the OP.

But i will say this, I am URM, I am also a mother of 2 and a full time student. My gpa is not what I would like it to be and I have yet to take the MCAT.

IF medical schools have a particular requirement for admissions then I will not question that and I will make it my business to attain those requirements whether it be the MCAT, cgpa, sgpa, EC's, etc..

Sure EVERYONE gets a second chance..... They get a second chance at making up for their bad grades. That means, retaking courses below C+, doing post baccs or SMP's etc.

No one is asking OP to get straight A's on his first try. Just to have a bit more consideration for the "competition" and apply with some stats that can meet the requirements of the Medical schools.

If he gets in with subpar grades thats great for him but what about those that actually bust their a*s to get 3.9 gpa and 35 MCAT?

What do you say to a person who is a nontrad, financially provides for their family, did a post bacc, has excellent grades and MCAT score (and all that other stuff) and gets rejected to a school that OP got into? Are you going to argue that he isnt URM? Are you going to argue that the other candidate didnt go to a public school or that the OP's family is much bigger than his?

Poor grades are no excuse. There are millions of student help aids, lots of school organizations to help you succeed.

I get it, some people can't quit their jobs and that makes things alot harder but as i stated previously there are so many applicants who are doing the same things or much more and are able to bring their grade to the requirement level.

Adcoms have seen hundreds of thousands of applications and im sure that unless OP has some major/spectacular info on his app that he will probably not be considered for admissions.

With that being said, I do suggest that OP bring the GPA up to the required standards even for DO schools and retake the MCAT at least to bring it up to a 27.

Great answer

News flash, URMs are not the only people who go through hardships in life. As a URM from a very diverse place I understand this completely, as I know wealthy black kids and poor white kids. There are also plenty of URMs who deal with all of this adversity and difficulty and still manage decent or good grades with a respectable mcat score. I don't think there's ever much of an excuse for a 2.7 and a 19, maybe in rare circumstances. Maybe it would have been hard, but SOMETHING could have been done to raise one of those at least a little bit. lt's also possible that this person had a first degree where they failed a lot and came back with a strong upward trend. Bottom line is you can't understand everyone's circumstances regardless of race, the only difference is URMs get some leeway with it due to race, and white/Asian applicants going through hardships do not. That is the only flaw in the system, otherwise affirmative action is 100% necessary IMO.

 

[La Presse]

Great answer

News flash, URMs are not the only people who go through hardships in life. As a URM from a very diverse place I understand this completely, as I know wealthy black kids and poor white kids. There are also plenty of URMs who deal with all of this adversity and difficulty and still manage decent or good grades with a respectable mcat score. I don't think there's ever much of an excuse for a 2.7 and a 19, maybe in rare circumstances. Maybe it would have been hard, but SOMETHING could have been done to raise one of those at least a little bit. lt's also possible that this person had a first degree where they failed a lot and came back with a strong upward trend. Bottom line is you can't understand everyone's circumstances regardless of race, the only difference is URMs get some leeway with it due to race, and white/Asian applicants going through hardships do not. That is the only flaw in the system, otherwise affirmative action is 100% necessary IMO.

 

[FloridaMedicine]

I'm not going to sit here and sugar coat anything for anyone. I also will not bash the OP.

But i will say this, I am URM, I am also a mother of 2 and a full time student. My gpa is not what I would like it to be and I have yet to take the MCAT.

IF medical schools have a particular requirement for admissions then I will not question that and I will make it my business to attain those requirements whether it be the MCAT, cgpa, sgpa, EC's, etc..

Sure EVERYONE gets a second chance..... They get a second chance at making up for their bad grades. That means, retaking courses below C+, doing post baccs or SMP's etc.

No one is asking OP to get straight A's on his first try. Just to have a bit more consideration for the "competition" and apply with some stats that can meet the requirements of the Medical schools.

If he gets in with subpar grades thats great for him but what about those that actually bust their a*s to get 3.9 gpa and 35 MCAT?

What do you say to a person who is a nontrad, financially provides for their family, did a post bacc, has excellent grades and MCAT score (and all that other stuff) and gets rejected to a school that OP got into? Are you going to argue that he isnt URM? Are you going to argue that the other candidate didnt go to a public school or that the OP's family is much bigger than his?

Poor grades are no excuse. There are millions of student help aids, lots of school organizations to help you succeed.

I get it, some people can't quit their jobs and that makes things alot harder but as i stated previously there are so many applicants who are doing the same things or much more and are able to bring their grade to the requirement level.

Adcoms have seen hundreds of thousands of applications and im sure that unless OP has some major/spectacular info on his app that he will probably not be considered for admissions.

With that being said, I do suggest that OP bring the GPA up to the required standards even for DO schools and retake the MCAT at least to bring it up to a 27.

Nicely put.