MA/MS M.A. or M.S. for PsyD?

[magriwhite]

I'm a senior in college, I'm getting my bachelor's in psychology with a minor in cognitive science. I want to eventually be a forensic psychologist, and I want to work in the field, so I was looking in to getting a PsyD. However my GPA is only 2.98, and my professors have been letting me know that my chances of getting into a clinical psychology program are slim. However one of my professors said that instead of immediately going for a PsyD, I could get my Master's first, and build up my GPA and strengthen my application and then apply for a PsyD program. The only problem is that I'm struggling to figure out whether I should go for an M.A. or an M.S. since I want to be a forensic psychologist. I've read that Master's of Science put a stronger emphasis on research, but that they're better for applying to forensic psychology. But I thought that I would want to go for a Master's that's more practice based. Could someone help clarify some of this for me and point me in the right direction? I'm also going to meet with my professors to ask them what their opinions are, but I thought I could get some help here as well. Thank you so much!

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[psych.meout]

I'm a senior in college, I'm getting my bachelor's in psychology with a minor in cognitive science. I want to eventually be a forensic psychologist, and I want to work in the field, so I was looking in to getting a PsyD. However my GPA is only 2.98, and my professors have been letting me know that my chances of getting into a clinical psychology program are slim. However one of my professors said that instead of immediately going for a PsyD, I could get my Master's first, and build up my GPA and strengthen my application and then apply for a PsyD program. The only problem is that I'm struggling to figure out whether I should go for an M.A. or an M.S. since I want to be a forensic psychologist. I've read that Master's of Science put a stronger emphasis on research, but that they're better for applying to forensic psychology. But I thought that I would want to go for a Master's that's more practice based. Could someone help clarify some of this for me and point me in the right direction? I'm also going to meet with my professors to ask them what their opinions are, but I thought I could get some help here as well. Thank you so much!

It's a widely held misconception that PsyD programs are for people interested in clinical practice while PhD programs are for those interested in research and academia. In reality, PhD programs provide as much clinical training (and often of better quality) as PsyD programs and most graduates of PhD programs go on to careers with roles providing clinical services.

Since you're interested in forensics, a PhD program would likely be better because of the better training offered (e.g., smaller cohort, more direct mentoring and supervision), as credentials are huge when doing forensic work. Also, most PsyD programs aren't fully funded, which means that you're likely going to go into huge debt for the degree unless you are already independently wealthy.

 

[WordDoc]

I don’t think the type of masters degree you get matters nearly as much as improving your overall gpa. A 2.98 gpa is low. Although it might be beneficial to attend a masters program that gives you experience in a forensic setting, I think you need to focus on getting your grades up before applying to doctorate programs.

I also don’t necessarily agree with the above poster about needing a PhD (vs a PsyD) to work in a forensic setting. The majority of my current and previous colleagues came from PsyD programs and I’ve worked in prisons, state hospitals, and outpatient forensic settings. I was on hiring committees at many of those places and I don’t recall ever choosing an applicant over another based on whether they had a PhD or PsyD. We were primarily concerned with experience, references, and overall level of fit.

That being said, the above posters points about smaller cohorts and mentoring may be things you’d want to consider, given your low undergraduate gpa. It may be that you’re someone who does well in smaller classes and with more direct contact with faculty. Graduate school is hard and requires an immense amount of focus and hard work. I’m not suggesting your incapable of those things (I have no idea what circumstances resulted in your low gpa) but those might be things to consider, even when you’re thinking about the types of masters programs you want to apply to.

 

[psych.meout]

I don’t think the type of masters degree you get matters nearly as much as improving your overall gpa. A 2.98 gpa is low. Although it might be beneficial to attend a masters program that gives you experience in a forensic setting, I think you need to focus on getting your grades up before applying to doctorate programs.

I also don’t necessarily agree with the above poster about needing a PhD (vs a PsyD) to work in a forensic setting. The majority of my current and previous colleagues came from PsyD programs and I’ve worked in prisons, state hospitals, and outpatient forensic settings. I was on hiring committees at many of those places and I don’t recall ever choosing an applicant over another based on whether they had a PhD or PsyD. We were primarily concerned with experience, references, and overall level of fit.

That being said, the above posters points about smaller cohorts and mentoring may be things you’d want to consider, given your low undergraduate gpa. It may be that you’re someone who does well in smaller classes and with more direct contact with faculty. Graduate school is hard and requires an immense amount of focus and hard work. I’m not suggesting your incapable of those things (I have no idea what circumstances resulted in your low gpa) but those might be things to consider, even when you’re thinking about the types of masters programs you want to apply to.

My point was not that hiring for jobs is based on which kind of degree one has, but rather that, on average, the training is better at PhD programs due to the factors with which you are agreeing, e.g., small cohorts and more mentoring. I'm not saying that a PsyD would not get someone to that point. Instead, I'm saying that it is easier and more likely for someone from a small cohort, funded program to get there, compared to a PsyD program.

 

[deleted343839]

The letters of the degree don't matter as much as the quality of the master's program and the track records of graduates who later matriculate into doctoral programs. But DO get a master's in psychology and not a terminal professional degree such as counseling or social work. For your purposes, your coursework in a master's program should be theory and research focused, not practice-oriented. You'll get your clinical training once you start in a doctoral program, like most of us do. Focus on strengthening your scholarly chops first.

 

[deleted957633]

It's a widely held misconception that PsyD programs are for people interested in clinical practice while PhD programs are for those interested in research and academia. In reality, PhD programs provide as much clinical training (and often of better quality) as PsyD programs and most graduates of PhD programs go on to careers with roles providing clinical services.

Since you're interested in forensics, a PhD program would likely be better because of the better training offered (e.g., smaller cohort, more direct mentoring and supervision), as credentials are huge when doing forensic work. Also, most PsyD programs aren't fully funded, which means that you're likely going to go into huge debt for the degree unless you are already independently wealthy.

I would disagree with this. Possibly biased because I am PsyD and I admit my program is a bit different than other PsyD's when it comes to research, cohort size, direct research/mentoring. It truly depends on the program and what you make of it. My program has an excellent forensic track in which our students have consistently matched to BOPs and other highly sought after forensic sites. As for research, I personally have more research under my belt than some PhDs that I went up against in internship interviews last year and was highly competitive for sites that typically only take PhDs. It is true though about funding, though my program had multiple HRSA grants that greatly helped me financially. Is this situation true for everyone? No. but just wanting to throw this out there that my clinical AND research AND mentorship was incredible and I was in PsyD. I'm sure we could nitpick the degree differences for days so I guess all of this to say is I think the PhD vs PsyD thing is bogus and you can get a good or bad experience from either.

As for the overarching question - MA or MS likely doesn't matter. Do one, beef up your scholarship, and go forth

 

[Jegg]

I’m glad I got a PhD instead of a PsyD. I’d hate to have to explain WTF it is to anyone who asks. As it stands, I say PhD and the conversation moves on to something else.

You know, on to conversations like, “Oh! You must be figuring me out right now!”

Oy......

 

[Jegg]

Kind of like how a D.O. has to explain what that is compared to an M.D.? The 5 seconds lost in explaining.

It was meant as tongue in cheek, but I do value efficiency.

 

[Jegg]

Apologies, for some reason I am terrible at picking up on tongue in cheek expression on here lol.

No worries. I’ve been told by exes that my sense of humor is so dry that they were always left thirsty...

 

[PsyDaVinci]

I would suggest coming at this from the opposite direction. You already know what you want to do, generally speaking. Doctoral programs are going to likely be more specialized than Master programs, so maybe identify some schools you'd like to train at and get a sense of what they are looking for. For instance, is this an environment that you would have to balance clinical and research work, then would a Masters program with research opportunities be a beneficial demonstration?

For what it's worth, "forensic psychologist" can be a very poorly defined term for a lot of people. My wife often refers to me as a forensic psychologist among coworkers or in "dinner party" settings, but I usually prefer to identify as a corrections/prison psychologist or SO treatment specialist among peers. This is mainly because a lot of people in forensics focus on evaluation (competency, mental status at the time of the offense, etc), and I love the population I work with but hate doing the evaluations. That's one of those things I had to figure out after I decided I wanted to pursue a career as a "forensic psychologist." I ended up working with my Master's degree for years because that got me what I wanted at the time. A strict forensic training program isn't necessarily the only path to that as well.

I'm also one of those people who enjoys carving out research opportunities in the clinical settings I work, and the coffee stained teeth and fatigue that accompanies it. I've worked in a few prisons (where most of my research has come from actually) and now in a forensic psych hospital. I've been in job interviews where the question of research support (willingness to allow it, not financial) comes up, it's become a bit of a litmus test for me when looking for a new job as I have seen it change the whole feel of the room when I go there. I can think of at least one interview that functionally ended (they were polite and continued, but I read the room) when I asked about research. So having a research heavy background need not be a prerequisite depending on where you want to go.

So it's good to have a sense of what you want to do with your degree as well. A well balanced Master program can be a good experience if you haven't figured this out.