Mad Props to Osteopathic Schools

[Atlas]

I was browsing in the allopathic forum and I noticed people griping about getting rejected or waitlisted with 3.9 and 30 MCATs. I'm not saying that those stats will necessarily guarantee you a spot in Osteopathic school either. What I AM saying is that I appreciate how Osteopathic Medical Schools handle their admissions. Much like the osteopathic philosophy, the admissions folks examine the ENTIRE application as a whole. I find that admirable. Sure, you could have great stats, but still not get into an osteopathic school because you lack in other important areas. I'm glad to see that there are schools out there that look past the numbers! I was bewildered to hear that a 3.9 and 30 MCAT could be rejected from every school that was applied to. That applicant must have lacked in some other department (volunteering, research, etc)! Anyways...I just wanted to give my "props" to schools that look at the whole person and not just the stat sheet!

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[omores]

Um, I'm a little confused. The 3.9/30-er got rejected from allopathic schools, yes? Isn't this evidence that those schools are also looking "past the stat sheet"?

I'm not trying to condradict your point about osteopathic admissions committees; I'm just not sure how the example you gave illustrates the difference between them and allopathic committees.

But here's to seeing beyond the numbers. Cheers.

[This message has been edited by omores (edited 03-01-2001).]

 

[tiffsatt]

I agree...I also think that post was about a person who was rejected from allopathic schools, but I do agree that osteopathic schools look beyond stats.

TJ

 

[Atlas]

You know what Omores? After looking back at it, I see your point. They were looking past the numbers. But then again, the applicant was an out-of-stater and he/she probably needed around a 33 or 34 just to be competitive. That's what I meant. I thought that was just ridiculous! I'm glad Osteopathic admissions don't say..."Um...I'm sorry, but your 34 MCAT and 3.9 GPA are not valid here because you don't live in our state." I know for a fact that if I had those kinda stats, plus some descent extracurriculars and recommendations, I'd get interviews everywhere I applied! I think that student who was denied complained about not even getting an interview!! That's my point. I'm sure with a 3.9 and a MCAT around 33 any Osteopathic school would AT LEAST invite you to interview and find out if you are more than an impressive stat line. I agree with both of you. I praise the admissions standards at DO schools. I like how their admissions policies of looking at the ENTIRE application correlates to the osteopathic philosophy of treating the whole person. It makes sense and that's how things should be! Bravo DO schools! Bravo!

 

[buzzy]

What I have come to realize throughout the application process is that we "pre-meds" don't think the same way about stats that most med school adcoms do- and this especially true of DO schools.

The reality is that numbers are used to weed out at the bottom, but not the top. Once your GPA and MCAT scores establish a minimum proficiency required of the school- the decision moves away from your stats to the interview and the rest of the package. This means that at most schools a 34 MCAT is not necessarily in any better shape than a 28 (w/no score 7> ), especially at a DO school- because both are in the "acceptable" range. DO schools use the MCAT in the manner in which it was originally designed- to test minimum competency,not distinguish between those at the top. I realized this after seeing many people with great stats get turned down at DO schools while someone with decent stats was admitted because they had a better overall profile.

 

[Leotigers]

Ugrad: Top three in the nation.
GPA: 3.4-3.6
MCAT: 33-35
Research: Wrote two papers with famous attendings who have written books and are the chiefs at repected academic departments.
Volunteer: Extensive.
Family: Physicians

This was someone I knew really well, don't ask me about specifics because I don't like to give out people's personal info. Anyway, s/he applied to 15 MD school and 5 DO schools. Got accepted to three MD schools, wait-listed to four. No offers of interview at the DO schools except one late interview. S/he was wait-listed. I didn't want to get involved because I didn't want the person to feel like s/he didn't get in on his/her own merits. Why even apply to DO schools, some may ask? Well, not everyone wants to leave their home-state. For some this is very important. More important than even going to a top 20 med school.
To tell you the truth, I was really ticked off that DO schools don't place greater emphasis on numbers. Yes, we should look beyond numbers but numbers do say a lot as well. The point is that this person's numbers made him/her a shoe-in at a great MD school but not a DO school. Once I intervened, things were a different story. In fact, I had another friend who had no qualms about using me as a reference and let everyone there know his/her connection to me. S/he got in with much lower numbers and very little research/volunteer experience. This 'good ol boys' thing really ticks me off.
The good thing about DO schools is that there is huge emphasis on life experience as well. There were many people in our class who had a completely different life before (PhDs, Advertising industry, PTs, PAs, etc...). Not surprisingly, many of them were more successful on clinical rotations and on the USMLE. The ones who came into our school fresh from college and also were at the high-end of the MCATs 30+, 3.7+ GPA tended to fizzle out. Trust me on this one. One of the brighest students in our class came off the waitlist. S/he has interview at all the big name places for General Surgey in CA.
I'm not really sure what point I'm trying to make. I guess I'm trying to say that there are good and bad things when you place a great emphasis on numbers. Numbers aren't necessarily an indicator of success but it does provide an institution with more respect. People with good numbers also tend to be more driven and motivated at reaching their goals. I think it is awesome that DO schools look beyond numbers and will consider the non-traditional applicant, I just think that the value of a solid Ugrad career and a high MCAT score are not taken seriously enough.
I have no problems with the older non-traditional applicant but not with the person who has a low GPA & MCAT but gets in only because he truly truly understands the DO philosophy because his/her daddy was one too. Also, we have to eliminate this preferential treatment to people who have shadowed a DO. There aren't even that many DOs out there. Most DOs don't even use OMM. Okay, I'm speaking about California, I really don't know how it is in the rest of the country.
I admit it, I eventually was guilty of the same string pulling, but I don't feel as bad knowing his/her numbers and the fact that this person had already secured acceptances at top-notch institutions.

 

[Atlas]

Maybe the people you know had a variety of things go wrong! It sounds like their college days were more geared toward allopathic school (i.e. extensive research, etc.) I mean, maybe I missed it, but I didn't see much humanitarian work in there! I didn't see things like Big Bros Big Sisters. Stuff like that. Also, what about the letters of rec? Were they stellar? Were they from DOs or just MDs? Also, were you at their interview? Maybe, at the interview, they were picked out of the bunch because they were drilled about questions about Osteopathy. If they were focused on allopathic, it'd be pretty hard to come up with a solid answer to questions about osteopathy. What my point is...there could have been a variety of factors that osteopathic schools didn't like about their applications. They definately had the numbers! I like the way osteopathic schools examine ALL of your letters and extra-curricular work. They LOVE community/volunteer programs, letters from DOs, etc. Maybe that's where your friends were lacking!? Don't get me wrong...everyone on your list sounded like a solid applicant, but I think they were more geared towards getting into a MD school instead of a DO school, and the DO admissions folks spotted this. Just my take.

 

[sidebentleft]

Atlas-
DO schools do not "look past the numbers". They have a limited number of seats, and they fill them with the best qualified students they can attract.

DO schools do not turn down applicants with good numbers without a reason. They also will not consider someone with crappy stats. Their process for admission is little different than their allopathic counterparts.

 

[Djanaba]

Also, don't forget that the in-state preference has *nothing* to do with a school's being allopathic. It is a mechanism the state uses, and I feel rightly so: states give their state schools a very large part of their total funding, and it is in the state's best interest to encourage in-state residents to be accepted because of the higher likelihood they will stay in that state to practice, effectually giving the state a good return on its investment.