Major Promotion Board: avg time to pin on?

[Mirror Form]

I've never completely understood the Army's promotion process. I know that the Army MC major promotion board meets in March, and then results are usually released in June.

So what happens after the list is released? Do most doc's pin on pretty fast after the list is released? Or can it take awhile?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[J-Rad]

I am Air Force, but after reading this
http://www.cs.amedd.army.mil/medicalcorps/developmentguide.pdf
(specifically page 10)
I infer uniformity across the services to some degree

(BTW this is the DoDI referenced which actually has some interesting reads that affect variability in the promotion pathway: http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/600013p.pdf)

So I think this is applicable: typically you are pinning on O-4 six years after your promotion to O-3 (unless you've done something stupid it should be an automatic promotion). At least in the AF these promotion lists come out ridiculously early. My promotion was listed in the late09 time frame. I pin on later this spring.

 

[colbgw02]

There was a sidetrack on another thread where a poster was convinced he would pin on before the end of this fiscal year for the O-4 board that met last month. That hasn't been the experience of the last dozen or so O-4 promotions in my department. Those folks have all pinned-on 6 years from their date in rank, and that's what I'm expecting for myself as well.

 

[haujun]

I've never completely understood the Army's promotion process. I know that the Army MC major promotion board meets in March, and then results are usually released in June.

So what happens after the list is released? Do most doc's pin on pretty fast after the list is released? Or can it take awhile?

It really depends on the line number. Every month Army selects couple officer (varies 1-4) starting from lowest line number and they get pinned. I have to say of if your line number is >50 you will "pin" a year after selection. I know it sucks. On a contrary to popular belief it is not based on merits. You can read more about it by reading this link:

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/promotions/l/blofficerprom.htm

 

[edmadison]

It really depends on the line number. Every month Army selects couple officer (varies 1-4) starting from lowest line number and they get pinned. I have to say of if your line number is >50 you will "pin" a year after selection. I know it sucks. On a contrary to popular belief it is not based on merits. You can read more about it by reading this link:

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/promotions/l/blofficerprom.htm

My personal experience and understanding is different. Every physician that I know who was promotable to O-4 (probably about 100) found out about a year early and pinned on exactly on the 6th anniversary of their O-3 DOR. The exception is those who are flagged for weight or PT. Unlike other AOCs, there are no MC below-the-zone promotions to O-4 in the Army. What I find amusing is that a PA can be promoted below-the-zone and make O-4 about 6 months earlier than a Doc. I should also note that those with constructive credit can get promoted earlier than 6 years, but this is not a below-the-zone promotion.

Ed

 

[haujun]

My personal experience and understanding is different. Every physician that I know who was promotable to O-4 (probably about 100) found out about a year early and pinned on exactly on the 6th anniversary of their O-3 DOR. The exception is those who are flagged for weight or PT. Unlike other AOCs, there are no MC below-the-zone promotions to O-4 in the Army. What I find amusing is that a PA can be promoted below-the-zone and make O-4 about 6 months earlier than a Doc. I should also note that those with constructive credit can get promoted earlier than 6 years, but this is not a below-the-zone promotion.

Ed

Last 2010 MC selection composed of about 300 doctors (HRC website) and great majority will be pinned about one year after selection on June 2011. I think I saw a doctor (released via Army times) with line number 36 got pinned March 2011. Again, read the link and you will understand.

 

[J-Rad]

I'm not sure that that link is applicable to medical corps promotions.

 

[Zulu451]

I've never completely understood the Army's promotion process. I know that the Army MC major promotion board meets in March, and then results are usually released in June.

So what happens after the list is released? Do most doc's pin on pretty fast after the list is released? Or can it take awhile?

Promotion list comes out in June and for the next year you are CPT (P). You can pin on Major the next year at your date of rank. Because MC for 04 is non-competitive, it is 6 years to the day from your DOR when you were commissioned as a CPT. Pretty simple. There is no BZ for 04.

There is BZ for 05 but this is very very rare that you will promote BZ for 05. Just plan on every 5 years getting your packet together, new DA photo etc, scrub your OMPF file, etc. They will always loose stuff so keep all of your certificates. Especially, awards and schools, med school, undergrad transcripts, everything! You will need to go to Captain Career Course, this is now required for 05 promotion.

 

[colbgw02]

A little bird told me that the correspondence course for CCC is going the way of the dodo as of this December. After that, the on-site, death-by-powerpoint, 13-week course will be obligatory. Can anybody confirm or refute this?

 

[texdrake]

A little bird told me that the correspondence course for CCC is going the way of the dodo as of this December. After that, the on-site, death-by-powerpoint, 13-week course will be obligatory. Can anybody confirm or refute this?

I believe that is incorrect for medical corp.

What I heard last summer is that the 13 week course will apply for all groups EXCEPT doctors (MD, DO, optometrists, and dental).

This group will complete online course work and do a two week course that will only be available once a year (winter I believe).

I was told the reason for this exception is that it was to costly for the military have physicians not practicing for 4 months. (Not to mention it is really a waste of time for a physician anyways).

 

[haujun]

Promotion list comes out in June and for the next year you are CPT (P). You can pin on Major the next year at your date of rank. Because MC for 04 is non-competitive, it is 6 years to the day from your DOR when you were commissioned as a CPT. Pretty simple. There is no BZ for 04.

There is BZ for 05 but this is very very rare that you will promote BZ for 05. Just plan on every 5 years getting your packet together, new DA photo etc, scrub your OMPF file, etc. They will always loose stuff so keep all of your certificates. Especially, awards and schools, med school, undergrad transcripts, everything! You will need to go to Captain Career Course, this is now required for 05 promotion.

I don't understand why it so hard to get promoted below the zone while is so not competitive to promoted on the zone. I guess this is the case for all officers in different MOS. However as for MC promotion it is true that the below the zone selection is esp difficult when the Senior graders do not utilize or check the first block (above the center of mass). Perhaps if your senior grader is in deployed setting or operational setting they would be more open to check the first or second block for promotional potential. Any insights would be helpful.

 

[colbgw02]

I don't understand why it so hard to get promoted below the zone while is so not competitive to promoted on the zone. I guess this is the case for all officers in different MOS. However as for MC promotion it is true that the below the zone selection is esp difficult when the Senior graders do not utilize or check the first block (above the center of mass). Perhaps if your senior grader is in deployed setting or operational setting they would be more open to check the first or second block for promotional potential. Any insights would be helpful.

I really don't think it has anything to do with what block the graders are checking. All of the recently minted O-4s I know were above center mass on all of their OERs. I think the absence of BZ promotions is just a matter of policy rather than reflective of any shortcomings in the packets.

 

[colbgw02]

I believe that is incorrect for medical corp.

What I heard last summer is that the 13 week course will apply for all groups EXCEPT doctors (MD, DO, optometrists, and dental).

This group will complete online course work and do a two week course that will only be available once a year (winter I believe).

I was told the reason for this exception is that it was to costly for the military have physicians not practicing for 4 months. (Not to mention it is really a waste of time for a physician anyways).

I hope you're right. I doubt I'll be in uniform long enough to see O-5, but if I were inclined to stay in, then a 13-week long CCC would be enough to convince me otherwise.

 

[bogatyr]

I don't understand why it so hard to get promoted below the zone while is so not competitive to promoted on the zone. I guess this is the case for all officers in different MOS. However as for MC promotion it is true that the below the zone selection is esp difficult when the Senior graders do not utilize or check the first block (above the center of mass). Perhaps if your senior grader is in deployed setting or operational setting they would be more open to check the first or second block for promotional potential. Any insights would be helpful.

You have to be a surgeon, EM, or operational.

 

[haujun]

I really don't think it has anything to do with what block the graders are checking. All of the recently minted O-4s I know were above center mass on all of their OERs. I think the absence of BZ promotions is just a matter of policy rather than reflective of any shortcomings in the packets.

My statement was directed towards O-5 and higher promotions. So far I spoke to one BZ selected O-5 and he told me that when he was deployed he was fortunate to have a senior grader who actually utilized the promotion potential block and selected the above center of mass.

BTW I guess we are lucky that officers in another branch have "work at it" while we seem to get promoted automatically to O-4.

Bottom line: Senior rater comment, promotion potential, principal duty (deployed setting?) are recipes for BZ selection.

 

[BlackFrancis33]

I hope you're right. I doubt I'll be in uniform long enough to see O-5, but if I were inclined to stay in, then a 13-week long CCC would be enough to convince me otherwise.

I was told by our consultant that the 2 week course is going away for Army. They are doing 3 more, 2-week courses with the last one in Dec. 2011. I looked into it as I will definitely be around for 0-5. I was informed that while I can complete the online portion, there is no guarantee I would be allowed into one of the final courses since priority will go to deploying personnel, OCONUS and those close to O-5. The online portion expires after 12 or 24 months, can't remember for sure. It would really suck to do the online stuff and then not be allowed to matriculate for CCC. I'm still debating whether to go forward.

 

[Zulu451]

I was told by our consultant that the 2 week course is going away for Army. They are doing 3 more, 2-week courses with the last one in Dec. 2011. I looked into it as I will definitely be around for 0-5. I was informed that while I can complete the online portion, there is no guarantee I would be allowed into one of the final courses since priority will go to deploying personnel, OCONUS and those close to O-5. The online portion expires after 12 or 24 months, can't remember for sure. It would really suck to do the online stuff and then not be allowed to matriculate for CCC. I'm still debating whether to go forward.

You will be able to get in. They seriously take a couple hundred per class. Do the online stuff and make them tell you "no". I was in one of the first 2 week courses and it is "Oh so definitely worth it". I could imagine the Army putting the GITMO detainees into that course for 13 weeks and that would result in a war crimes trial. Do whatever you can to get into that course.

Just be ready to do a PT test while you are there. Don't show up overweight. You are forced to listen to MSC guys / gals who have an obvious chip on their shoulders against doctors.

It was fun to see all my friends from deployment, residency and other conferences again.

 

[BlackFrancis33]

You will be able to get in. They seriously take a couple hundred per class. Do the online stuff and make them tell you "no". I was in one of the first 2 week courses and it is "Oh so definitely worth it". I could imagine the Army putting the GITMO detainees into that course for 13 weeks and that would result in a war crimes trial. Do whatever you can to get into that course.

Just be ready to do a PT test while you are there. Don't show up overweight. You are forced to listen to MSC guys / gals who have an obvious chip on their shoulders against doctors.

It was fun to see all my friends from deployment, residency and other conferences again.

Thanks that is some good advice. I need to buck up and get it done. 13 weeks away from my real job would be painful.

 

[Ascultator]

Does this 6-year time period from O-3 to O-4 matter whether you're in Active Duty vs. Guard or Reserve?

I'm graduating from residency in 2 months and I am thinking of joining the Army National Guard. If I understand correctly, once I'm commissioned, I'll be an O-3 with already 3 years credited to my time in rank? Then another 3 years to make O-4?

Thx

 

[haujun]

Does this 6-year time period from O-3 to O-4 matter whether you're in Active Duty vs. Guard or Reserve?

I'm graduating from residency in 2 months and I am thinking of joining the Army National Guard. If I understand correctly, once I'm commissioned, I'll be an O-3 with already 3 years credited to my time in rank? Then another 3 years to make O-4?

Thx

Yes. I assume that your residency was for 3 years?

 

[DocRGR]

You have to be a surgeon, EM, or operational.

2 year bump...

Can anyone confirm if there is any truth to this or have any stats? Conventional wisdom has been zero BZ MAJ promotions.

 

[AFlightdoc]

I'm only versed in the AF system but I believe it's pretty much universal for all three medical corps. You will pin-on six years to the day of your date-of-rank. We (MC), thankfully, do not have line numbers and will typically pin on much sooner than our line counterparts. If you actually look at your vMPF promotion page your line number will either be blank or filled in with a 9999- or some other space filling number- this means nothing. There are no BZ promotions to Maj- unless you have a master's degree in addition to your MD/DO. In the twisted logic of military promotions a master's will trump a doctorate level degree when it comes to O-4 promotion. BZ O-5 promotions are possible but very rare and usually require some operational/leadership role and in the AF are mainly seen in RAMS and others transitioning out of clinical medicine and into leadership/admin type roles. All said and done if you stay out of major trouble you will cruise to O-5, assuming you stay in. You'll also have a pretty good shot at O-6 if you extend beyond you service commitment and at least make some kind of gesture that you have a slight interest in a leadership role. As far as PME (pro mil edu)- at least in the AF it is not needed up through O-5- but you'll probably need some type of merit badge to get to O-6. That being said you will never be required to do these- and you won't be allowed to do them in residence.

 

[sg1sg2]

This is good info....thanks for sharing. Another question--
For someone coming in with 6 years of residency (for example, an IM residency as civilian/ unsponsored followed by an EM civilian residency sponsored through FAP), does that entire time count as time in rank....or do they only count the years of residency that they sponsored you for?

 

[AFlightdoc]

This is good info....thanks for sharing. Another question--
For someone coming in with 6 years of residency (for example, an IM residency as civilian/ unsponsored followed by an EM civilian residency sponsored through FAP), does that entire time count as time in rank....or do they only count the years of residency that they sponsored you for?

Only time spent in an active duty or fully sponsored civ residency will count as time in rank.

 

[idq1i]

Only time spent in an active duty or fully sponsored civ residency will count as time in rank.

Incorrect. Deferred residency counts too.

 

[AFlightdoc]

Incorrect. Deferred residency counts too.

true- with a military deferred residency the clock starts the day you graduate and pin-on. However-and maybe I'm confused- was OP in a deferred civilian residency or just a civilian residency? His 3 years in FAP will count as time in grade and if he was a deferred military applicant his 3 years in his prior medicine residency will count as well. If he was a non-military resident initially those three years will not count. Maybe I just misunderstood his post- but it would be an unusual situation where a military applicant would be allowed to complete a deferred residency then roll right into a second FAP sponsored residency. Full disclosure- I've never been deferred or FAP so I'm no expert- it just seems unusual.

 

[sg1sg2]

Yeah, when I did IM, it was a civilian residency, no affiliation with the military. (I had served prior, got out and went to med school on my own.) Followed that up with another 3 year residency (EM), 2 1/2 years of which were FAP/military sponsored. Recruiter indicated all 6 years would count and I'd be an O4 by the time I went to COT. But we all know how reliable recruiters are when it comes to mil med info. Which is why I asked the question here...

 

[Snowdon48]

So let me get this straight...I am starting med school this fall and took an AF HPSP scholarship. I will graduate from med school and pin on as O3 as soon as I graduate. Hypothetically, after a 4 year military residency I will only be 2 years away from making O4?

 

[AFlightdoc]

So let me get this straight...I am starting med school this fall and took an AF HPSP scholarship. I will graduate from med school and pin on as O3 as soon as I graduate. Hypothetically, after a 4 year military residency I will only be 2 years away from making O4?

Correct. You will pin-on O-3 on-or-about the day you graduate. There's nothing hypothetical about it- the 6-year countdown to O-4 starts that day.

 

[Snowdon48]

Correct. You will pin-on O-3 on-or-about the day you graduate. There's nothing hypothetical about it- the 6-year countdown to O-4 starts that day.

Great! I didn't realize prior to reading this thread that time in residency counted towards rank. Thanks for the reply!

 

[NavyFP]

Yeah, when I did IM, it was a civilian residency, no affiliation with the military. (I had served prior, got out and went to med school on my own.) Followed that up with another 3 year residency (EM), 2 1/2 years of which were FAP/military sponsored. Recruiter indicated all 6 years would count and I'd be an O4 by the time I went to COT. But we all know how reliable recruiters are when it comes to mil med info. Which is why I asked the question here...

If prior service was comissioned, you should have received half credit for the time. If it was enlisted. No credit.

In order to make O4 by COT, you would have needed 6 years of prior comissioned service.

 

[DrMetal]

If prior service was comissioned, you should have received half credit for the time. If it was enlisted. No credit.

In order to make O4 by COT, you would have needed 6 years of prior comissioned service.

So, i had 7.5 years prior, 1/2 = 3.25 yrs (or 3 yrs 3 mo), getting commissioned into the MC on 5/18/2013.. By the time of the next O-4 board (April 2014), ten months will have surpassed, so I'll have 4 years 1 mo as credit for time in rank, right? Will i be able to board for O-4 slection, or will i have to wait until April 2015?

 

[NavyFP]

So, i had 7.5 years prior, 1/2 = 3.25 yrs (or 3 yrs 3 mo), getting commissioned into the MC on 5/18/2013.. By the time of the next O-4 board (April 2014), ten months will have surpassed, so I'll have 4 years 1 mo as credit for time in rank, right? Will i be able to board for O-4 slection, or will i have to wait until April 2015?

Based on the above:

Your date of rank for O3 would be 02/18/2010 based on entry grade credit. You would likely be below zone in 2014 and in zone in 2015. It will depend on where they set the zone.

If you were Navy it would look like this:

The FY14 zone (this year's board):
STAFF CORPS
MEDICAL CORPS (210X)
SENIOR IN-ZONE - LT B. H. SHAPIRO 142028-25 04 OCT 07
JUNIOR IN-ZONE - LT A. L. HARVEY 147447-37 21 AUG 08
JUNIOR ELIGIBLE - LT C. J. STANGE 159892-75 19 SEP 10

 

[DrMetal]

Based on the above:

Your date of rank for O3 would be 02/18/2010 based on entry grade credit. You would likely be below zone in 2014 and in zone in 2015. It will depend on where they set the zone.

If you were Navy it would look like this:

The FY14 zone (this year's board):
STAFF CORPS
MEDICAL CORPS (210X)
SENIOR IN-ZONE - LT B. H. SHAPIRO 142028-25 04 OCT 07
JUNIOR IN-ZONE - LT A. L. HARVEY 147447-37 21 AUG 08
JUNIOR ELIGIBLE - LT C. J. STANGE 159892-75 19 SEP 10

Cool, thanks.

 

[fogyuro]

So, i had 7.5 years prior, 1/2 = 3.25 yrs (or 3 yrs 3 mo), getting commissioned into the MC on 5/18/2013.. By the time of the next O-4 board (April 2014), ten months will have surpassed, so I'll have 4 years 1 mo as credit for time in rank, right? Will i be able to board for O-4 slection, or will i have to wait until April 2015?

It looks to me that you would actually have 3 yrs 9 mo (half of 7yrs 6mo, unless I'm misunderstanding something).

That would put your date of rank from entry credit at 8/18/2009.

 

[DrMetal]

It looks to me that you would actually have 3 yrs 9 mo (half of 7yrs 6mo, unless I'm misunderstanding something).

That would put your date of rank from entry credit at 8/18/2009.

Yes youre right, thanks for the correction.

 

[idq1i]

Some confusion about the maj promotion. I went through the FY13 3/2013 board as "above the zone" (civilian residency) with a DOR of 2007. Does the "FY13" mean I get my o-4 before FY14 starts in October? My 6 year anniversary is coming up

 

[Chonal Atresia]

What a system!

You are rewarded monetarily based on rank and time-in-service. Quality of care, productivity and type of medicine delivered don't matter. This is the underlying reason that military medicine is a failure. Heck, even everyone is promoted to Major and LTC (if they dot their I's and cross their T's) at the same point in their careers. Capitalism and the free market do not exist within MEDCOM or "Big Army."

Leave if you can and do not join if you have the option.

 

[Snowdon48]

What a system!

You are rewarded monetarily based on rank and time-in-service. Quality of care, productivity and type of medicine delivered don't matter. This is the underlying reason that military medicine is a failure. Heck, even everyone is promoted to Major and LTC (if they dot their I's and cross their T's) at the same point in their careers. Capitalism and the free market do not exist within MEDCOM or "Big Army."

Leave if you can and do not join if you have the option.

What if you have a desire to provide quality care to the nations servicemen/women and their families?

 

[DrMetal]

What a system!

You are rewarded monetarily based on rank and time-in-service. Quality of care, productivity and type of medicine delivered don't matter. This is the underlying reason that military medicine is a failure. Heck, even everyone is promoted to Major and LTC (if they dot their I's and cross their T's) at the same point in their careers. Capitalism and the free market do not exist within MEDCOM or "Big Army."

Leave if you can and do not join if you have the option.

Yeah buddy thanks, great post, very informative.

 

[Chonal Atresia]

Take Tricare as a civilian. That's how you can serve our troops. It is becoming increasingly common not to accept Tricare. No civilian ENT in my town will take it.

 

[Snowdon48]

Take Tricare as a civilian. That's how you can serve our troops. It is becoming increasingly common not to accept Tricare. No civilian ENT in my town will take it.

Thats one way to help but I still think the military needs good active duty doctors. I grew up in the military and am very thankful for the doctors that made sacrifices to serve me while living overseas.

 

[idq1i]

What if you have a desire to provide quality care to the nations servicemen/women and their families?

Yeah buddy thanks, great post, very informative.

Love it. A pre-med and a medical student posting opinions on a system that they have no idea about. Save your righteous indignation. I don't care if your mother/uncle/father/neighbor was in the service. Come live a day in our shoes.

The medcom system prevents you from providing quality care. It lets untrained NP/PAs/GMOs make medical decisions. It puts emphasis on # of pushups over CME. Heck, it cancelled all CME for the forseeable future. It lets nurses be in charge of MDs. It allows a nurse to be in high command. The qualified, motivated physicians are usually so frustrated by system, they leave after their ADSO is done. The desk jockeys, the pencil pushers, the anklebiters, the rank-climbers and the APEQS warriors are the ones who stay (with a few exceptions). If the system was so fabulous, it wouldn't have the retention rates it has.

 

[Snowdon48]

You're bitter....we get it.

 

[DrMetal]

Love it. A pre-med and a medical student posting opinions on a system that they have no idea about. Save your righteous indignation.

The medcom system prevents you from providing quality care. It lets untrained NP/PAs/GMOs make medical decisions. It puts emphasis on # of pushups over CME. Heck, it cancelled all CME for the forseeable future. It lets nurses be in charge of MDs. The qualified, motivated physicians are usually so frustrated by system, they leave after their ADSO is done. The desk jockeys, the pencil pushers, the anklebiters and the APEQS warriors are the ones who stay (with a few exceptions).

I dont disagree with Chonal nor with anybody else regarding their opinion. From his post, I take it Chonal is an ENT, and I sympathize with him and other surgical sub-specialists in thr milmed. A lack of case volume/diversity, ****ty GME, makes for some very disgruntled surgeons. And they take it out on their patients by providing crappy care. Even in my short time as a medical student, I've seen way too many patients mismanaged (to the point of near death) by surgical services. Its the reason why Im getting civilian health insurance.

In any case, we were asking a specific question here about promotion, not looking for a pros\cons fight. It helps when peole like NavyFP---who probaby outranks all of u an is as disgruntled--takes the time to provide helpful info.

 

[Snowdon48]

This conversation happens over and over and it really gets old

Pre-Med/Med Student: I have a desire to be a military doctor.
Attending: STFU you dont know anything!!! Go away!!!
Pre-Med/Med Student:

Never claimed to know more about the system than you or that you got a raw deal.

 

[idq1i]

In any case, we were asking a specific question here about promotion, not looking for a pros\cons fight. It helps when peole like NavyFP---who probaby outranks all of u an is as disgruntled--takes the time to provide helpful info.

If you notice, I also have a question posted. I have no desire no have a pro/con discussion. I just get very frustrated when I see unqualified people posting regurgitated propaganda. Plus, jehatten1's post had an implication that people complaining about milmed somehow don't care about the soldiers. Actually, it's the other way around. Also, ranks means little when it comes to milmed. If you don't get charged with a felony, you will get at least to O5. Let's get back to the topic.

Your statement about doctors taking their milmed frustration out on the patients is offensive and insulting to those of us on AD.

Your comment on getting civilian insurance is... interesting. On AD, you a slave to the milmed machine/tricare.

 

[Chonal Atresia]

I take great offense to providing "crappy" care to my patients as a surgical subspecialist. If anything, I spend more time with them in clinic because I don't get paid by the amount of productivity that I generate. In the OR, I perform all complicated cases with my partner (who is also board-certified). This is harder to do in civilian practice as the "1st assist" gets very little compensation and therefore is much less likely to scrub with you if he/she is not primary surgeon. My complication rates are at or below national averages (yes, we do keep track of this - it is called M&M). You can call me bitter all you want but you have no clue how the system works as a medical student. Come talk to me in 10 years when a nurse is your boss, APEQS is more important than patient care and you are making 1/3 what everyone else in your specialty makes.

 

[DrMetal]

I take great offense to providing "crappy" care to my patients as a surgical subspecialist. If anything, I spend more time with them in clinic because I don't get paid by the amount of productivity that I generate.

I wasn't referring to you specifically. And if you do provide such good care as a surgical sub-specialist, then you're the exception, not the norm. I've seen neurosurgeons operate on the wrong level, general surgeons fail to order antibiotics for days despite a near septic patient . . . .and rounding, forget about it, the staff is no where to be found. One patient had a miserable 30-day post op course; he was a physician himself, asked to speak with the attending in charge of his care. Said attending finally showed up on day 35, to meet the patient for the first time.

And for the record, I don't think you're "bitter". Given your specialty, I sympathize with your negative opinion.