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Major WesternU Problem

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - DO' started by solid_confusion, May 21, 2002.

  1. solid_confusion

    solid_confusion Member 7+ Year Member

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    Apr 3, 2001
    City of Angels, USA
    So fine...WesternU students get relatively descent residencies, but this is how they treat us as students: THEY HAVE NO COMPASSION FOR US WHATSOEVER. Whatever happened to the osteopathic philosophy of treating the whole patient?

    <a href="http://forums.studentdoctor.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=002549;p=3" target="_blank">http://forums.studentdoctor.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=002549;p=3</a>

    Okay, I'm finally back. The statement below comes from another colleague in our class who is willing to shed some light of our situation:

    This is the very first time I?ve posted on SDN, but there is something I believe the entire medical profession should be aware of. I am a student at COMP. We are a DO school that supposedly teaches and prides itself in the essence of osteopathic philosophy. The events I will share with you all will prove completely contrary. Last week, one of our beloved classmates, I?ll call him ?Bob,? committed suicide. For whatever reasons he decided to take his own life, be they school related, personal, or both, all of his friends can agree that school played some part in it. But honestly, school is hard for all of us?especially being in class from 8-5 with substandard faculty ?teaching us.? But what was different here was that Bob sought help from our administration, telling even the President of our school himself his dilemma. Nothing was done. Bob committed suicide last weekend, and so many of us were full of sadness, anger, and self-blame. Then on Monday our class was to take an exam, and the dean of our college came to speak with us at 8am, one hour before the exam, and stated that the exam was still to happen, and whoever took the test and failed?well?that was a risk to take. We did not have time to grieve for our classmate. As a side note, there were students around me crying as they were taking the exam. Luckily, our class pulled together and organized a bike/hike memorial for our overly athletic classmate. He would have loved the mountain we climbed?In addition, our class planned a memorial today 5-20-2002 at noon. At 1pm promptly, the formal part of the memorial had just finished. Classmates were hugging, talking about Bob, trying to bring some closure to this tragedy. NOW WHAT HAPPENED NEXT NOT ONLY SHOCKED AND ANGERED ME, BUT MADE ME REALIZE JUST HOW UNCOMPASSIONATE WESTERNU FACULTY AND STAFF ARE. One of our professors got on the microphone and stated that though he knows there is a memorial for Bob occurring, there was a make-up exam for a small number of students to be conducted in the same room the memorial was taking place. He asked us to disperse and when two minutes had passed, while tears were being shed and classmates were still hugging, the professor once again asked us to exit the room knowing that there was another free classroom just next door. I was appalled as I watched the flowers for Bob being carried away, the candles near his photograph being blown out?I have always stood behind my school when all my classmates had negative things to say about COMP. I would have something positive to say. I?ve run out of positive things to say. To make this point of the cold-hearted attitudes of the administration, a student in the class talked to the dean personally to let him know how we were forced to disperse in our time of remembrance. The dean had no sympathy and tried to draw parallels with Bob?s death with working in the ER. I guess people die in the ER and we must ?move on.? Last time I checked, we are students at a DO school supposedly learning about humanism and medical ethics. I saw my classmate in tears after talking to the dean and listened to her story as she tried to compose herself after talking to the most uncaring man in the world. I am writing this because I don?t know what else to do. We as a class have tried so hard to change things at our school. We?ve gone straight to the top, and nothing in terms of teaching and being an example of osteopathic principles is being implemented. The fact that our medical ethics course was only six hours long and our humanism in medicine class was only two, goes hand in hand with what our school stands for. With Bob?s death, I have seen firsthand how unsympathetic and uncaring our school is. Think about this; when the New York 9/11 incident happened our dean said ?We must move on.? So of course, we took our gross anatomy exam the following Monday as planned. When another student in the 2nd year class died in an accident, the message from the president of the school was ?This is a very valuable lesson we?ve all learned today.? I?ll tell you what I learned; our med school stops for no one. With Bob?s death, we grabbed our number 2 pencils and bubbled in scantrons as planned. As an osteopathic medical student, life doesn?t always happen as planned. I have also learned that humanity, compassion, and viewing the person as an entire entity, which includes emotions, depression, and grief as part of the differential diagnosis, is part of being a good doctor. I?ve learned this all from watching the majority of staff and faculty at COMP, and then striving to turn 180 degrees and emulate the complete opposite of anything that they attempt to teach by example. I want to end by saying that this weeks events have hugely impacted me and have shed light on COMP. The administration is so secretive about so many events that happen at our school, and they refuse to see that Bob?s death had anything to do with school. They also refuse to admit the attrition rate at our school is grossly high, our school morale is plummeting lower and lower, and that they are teaching us by example to be cold, uncaring, uncompassionate doctors. Is that what being a graduate at WesternU will mean?
     
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  3. willinghamwilliamwayne788

    willinghamwilliamwayne788 Junior Member 7+ Year Member

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    May 21, 2002
    e lansing
    I'm very sorry to hear about your friend/classmate and about the administation at COMP. As an alternate for the school I am shocked and I wished I didn't know, but in all reality I'm glad you shared your story. Thank you for telling potential students about this, not because we need someone to warn us "not to go there" but to enlighten most of us to the reality that hides behind the fascade that we see on our interview day.

    Condolences

    Bill
     
  4. willinghamwilliamwayne788

    willinghamwilliamwayne788 Junior Member 7+ Year Member

    13
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    May 21, 2002
    e lansing
    I'm very sorry to hear about your friend/classmate and about the administation at COMP. As an alternate for the school I am shocked and I wished I didn't know, but in all reality I'm glad you shared your story. Thank you for telling potential students about this, not because we need someone to warn us "not to go there" but to enlighten most of us to the reality that hides behind the fascade that we see on our interview day.

    Condolences

    Bill
     
  5. drfeelgood

    drfeelgood Born-again Baseball Fan 15+ Year Member

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    May 4, 2002
    Southern California
    My Condolences...

    why don't more of you guys transfer out to another school like Touro. Because a lot of their students transfer to COMP during the 3rd year. You'll just return the favor.
     
  6. SexyEgptnDr

    SexyEgptnDr Member 10+ Year Member

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    May 15, 2002
    Long Island, NY
    I am sorry to hear about your classmate...was this person a 1st or 2nd year? That is horrible news about the rise in the attrition rate and all...and it does make me think twice about what I am getting myself into.

    I have dealt with both the Dean (Lenz) and the president (Pumerantz)...and they really are nice people....but this is probably hard on them too. Although they are not showing it and even appear as cold...I think it is affecting them. I mean, it is a refelction of their program. They are probably just trying to get over this tragedy as if it was any other one...by concentrating on moving forward. I know it is hard on the whole class since you guys form your own little community and family. And it is sad to hear that the school didn't hold their own memorial for the student since they held a huge one for the late Dr. Adaito whom taught there...but, I am sure that you can coordinate a formal memorial with the school. Maybe try that so everyone has the chance to grieve and it wont be disrupting any classes.
     
  7. aecuenca

    aecuenca Senior Member 15+ Year Member

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    Sep 27, 1999
    San Diego, CA USA
    I have been reading these posts for the past few days and I would like to reply to solid_confusion?s comments.

    I am a member of the DO class of 2004 and have served as President of my class for two terms, so I have worked as a mediator between administrative/staff and the students.
    With regards to the details of ?Bob?, I cannot fully comment because I am not a member of your class. However, I can comment on how our class has dealt with administration and staff. Though we have had our battles, overall it has been a positive experience.

    I did not appreciate solid_confusion?s use of our classmate?s death (from DO 2004, not DO 2005) as an example to illustrate how uncompassionate COMP is. During our classmate?s death (who GoForIt has referred to as JN), we received OVERWHELMING support from adminstration, staff, and faculty. I can say this because I was in charge of JN?s memorial service. I worked with the different departments of the university to ensure that JN?s memorial service was a success, including scheduling, funding for gifts and pictures to JN?s parents, room reservations, etc. Everywhere I went I was offered support for JN?s memorial and if we needed anything, all I had to do was ask. The University President?s commentary of ?This is a very valuable lesson we have learned today? referred to the lesson of how life is short and we should embrace every minute of it.

    I don?t know what the difference is between the handling of JN?s death and the handling of ?Bob?s? death. One thing that solid_confusion noted was the administration of an exam immediately after ?Bob?s? service. However, who reserved that time? Did they check to see what was going on that day? Was there an effort to find out what the schedule was like? I understand and sympathize with those who attended the memorial service?but GoForIt did make a point in that school does move forward. Perhaps there was a communication problem?

    Apparently your class is having problems with addressing your issues and you are unable to make changes. I?ve served with great officers of my class and we have been able to voice our concerns and come up with viable solutions that satisfied both parties. Administration and staff want to help (believe it or not) but you have to approach them with a ?working together? ethic. Our class officers WORKED WITH administration, not against them, as you are doing now. Perhaps this is a problem that should be further investigated, rather than placing all of the blame onto administration.

    Another comment about your exam. I received a University wide email relaying ?Bob?s? death and the offering of an oral make-up exam if you could not take the exam. The Dean?s comment on students' risk of taking the exam is a reality?.each person has to make a choice in life and take responsibility for their actions. If you decide to take the exam under those conditions and you fail, you cannot expect to be excused. I believe that is a fair statement. Now, could they have delayed the exam? I don?t know?.however, I understand that the Dean did speak with some of you on the Saturday before the exam who encouraged the Dean to move forward with the exam.

    Substandard faculty?.interesting label. But that is a very general statement. What is your goal? To be spoon-fed? The reality is that medical school is truly a self-learning experience. Not all faculty members are excellent?.. It is their job to relay the information and our job is to learn from it. Some students say that we should do more board-relevant material. Well, I?m studying for boards now and pretty much everything that I am reviewing we have covered in some fashion. Now, we are taught much more than what is on boards, but we are here to learn basic science and clinical medicine, not just material for boards.

    You asked the question ?Am I bad mouthing or am I doing others a favor?? It?s my opinion (and it?s just an opinion) that you are bad-mouthing the university and not doing anyone a favor with your tirades. By posting anonymously about what is going on, what kind of progress are you making with regards to University Policy? You are doing nothing more than creating a negative atmosphere for those who are coming to COMP next year. Why don?t you sit down and figure out what really is the cause of all of your problems. Is administration fully to blame? Are there other ways that could be improved? In addition, by keeping yourself anonymous, you are showing that though you have all of these strong opinions, you are not willing to stand up and identify yourself and do something about it. And if you are not willing to do that, then perhaps you should consider transferring to another medical school.

    Here is your comment on the purpose of your post:

    ?Yes, hopefully they're reading this right now and hopefully they're thinking...we have a business here, and if NO ONE is satisfied, others out there won't be so willing to buy into the product. And, in order to keep the business going, they're gonna have to make some changes. It's already affecting them because I remember interviews coming in until the last day of April.?

    Do you honestly think that this type of attitude will create changes? If you are passionate enough to write about this, why don?t you come up with some solutions to your problems and contribute to making your changes. Work with your class officers (that?s what they are there for) and see what can be done. I relayed a long time ago to many of the first years when they started that to make changes you have to do it through proper channels and in a non-confrontational matter. Things CAN CHANGE. They have for our class, and they can for yours.

    I am not saying that COMP is perfect?no medical school is. But if your agenda is to make changes, this is not the way to do it. COMP Administration is not unreasonable and will entertain any POSITIVE ideas and contributions that your class might have.

    And here is my personal opinion about this University: I am happy here. Overall, the majority (there will always be a minority) of our class is content with our time here. Our rotations are numerous and flexible?.for example, the creation of a San Diego rotations block this year. I feel I personally received the education necessary to do well during my 3rd and 4th years, albeit with a lot of independent effort (which is probably a reality at many medical schools). Yes, I am a defender of COMP because there are truly more positives about this school than there are negatives.

    For those that are coming next year: Don?t let solid_confusion?s post get you down. Medical school is what YOU MAKE OF IT. Study hard, get involved, and do your best. Try to keep a positive attitude and you?ll do fine.

    Arnold Cuenca
    MS-III
    Western University of Health Sciences/COMP
     
  8. BJBM

    BJBM Junior Member

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    May 10, 2002
    Is it really your goal to screw youself and your license by badmouthing your own school in a public forum? Have you no shame? Life at WU has been tough, probably more than other medical schools. The suicide was indeed a great trajedy, but life goes on. You can't blame everyone here for being uncompassionate. It is true that there are some staff/faculty members that don't give a cr*p about us, but you know what? Thats their problem. Maybe they're bitter because they know we will make more $$ then they do. Maybe they got screwed at one time too. But it doesn't matter. There are a lot of really good people at WU that ARE trying to make a difference. But change takes time. Hopefully we'll get rid of the bad ones, but politics always rears its ugly head.

    You can't stay focus on one aspect of the school (compassion) and say that its a bad school.

    We all have our own list of "Why WU sucks", but I also have a "Why WU kicks ass" list too. Just ignore the jerk faculty members (a couple come to mind), and study. Study like hell. Pass your classes, move on, and be thankful you get a chance to be a doctor.

    Whatever you do, remember that when you talk trash about your own school, you're not only hurting yourself, and your degree, you hurting all your friends and classmates that go here too.
     
  9. GoForIt

    GoForIt Senior Member 7+ Year Member

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    Apr 14, 2002
    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Whatever you do, remember that when you talk trash about your own school, you're not only hurting yourself, and your degree, you hurting all your friends and classmates that go here too.
    </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What a way for solid_confusion to show his COMPASSION to his degree (if he is good enough to graduate), all his friends and classmates that go to COMP.

    What so sad is that solid_confusion is twisting the fact to drag COMP's reputation to the mud. First, he complains about administration's uncompassion when in fact it was the fault of solid_confusion's student friends that did not schedule the room properly. That room was already scheduled IN ADVANCE for makeup-exam. You cannot expect administrator to call off the makeup-exam. Why didn't you check the room schedule and conduct the memorial service elsewhere at the first place???? Sure, it is easy to blame someone else for your own negligence, isn't it? Secondly, solid_confusion use the death of a student from a different class as an example to illustrate how uncompassionate COMP is. The death was caused by an accident. As aecuenca pointed out in his post above, students received OVERWHELMING support from administration, staff, and faculty. It's 180 degree opposite to what solid_confusion's claim about administration's lack of support.

    COMP has received more than its share of negative posting. I believe one of the ways is to raise its admission requirement. Dismissal from a med school is devastating and traumatic. COMP can not expect compliment from students who have academic difficulties. COMP has proved itself in the past 25 years with good faculties, rotations and match results. It is time to upgrade its admission requirements and attract better students.
     
  10. solid_confusion

    solid_confusion Member 7+ Year Member

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    Apr 3, 2001
    City of Angels, USA
    You know what...you guys are right. I do have many positives I can speak about. But the problem is that it's the same positives all other schools should have. I'm just pointing out the extraodinary...stuff that shouldn't be happening at any med school. So those of you out there...these people are concerned for their ownself, b/c that's where they're going to graduate from. I'm tired of all the coverups, ie Bill Clinton, the military, and the church. You guys out there can decide for yourselves. I can just tell you that someone in our class took a class survey on how the students feel about our school and it's not good. Please don't ask me to post it b/c I would like to honor the requests of this person to keep the results within the class only. Here's another post about others' opinions a while ago:

    <a href="http://forums.studentdoctor.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=002061" target="_blank">http://forums.studentdoctor.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=002061</a>

    To my college I will be loyal and strive always for its best interests and for the interests of the students who will come after me.

    for the interests of the students who will come after me...
    Hey, I'm just looking out for all of you out there. I'm not like the others on this post concerned about their own well-being only.

    Ultimately the choice is yours. I'm just sharing our unique problems. Problems that don't occur at other med schools.
     
  11. BJBM

    BJBM Junior Member

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    May 10, 2002
    I'm sure every school has "extraordinary" scandals too, but maybe their students just don't voice it as well as your class. I realize your class is extremely bitter, and rightfully so, but just becareful what you say in a WORLD PUBLIC FORUM.
     
  12. Thewonderer

    Thewonderer Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Oct 20, 2001
    If solid_confusion did twist the story, then that's not good. But assuming that everything he said from his own angle, is as true as he knows, then I don't see anything wrong with it.

    this is a public forum. If he said something wrong, somebody else can correct. If you disagree with you, then you can go ahead and rebute it.

    I personally think that changes are needed in many areas of life. People are too satisfied with status quo. I don't see why people should "move on." People who espouse this view are mixing up some important priorities in life. Life is full of surprises and hence we should all be flexible and understanding about what happens to others. If you are an ER attending in the middle of a trauma case and yet find out one of your colleagues committed suicide half an hour ago, of course you do NOT stop your resuscitation right then and start grieving. But who are we? We are medical "students." If we really stop our school for one day to grieve or postpone one exam, will we be unable to make it up at a later date and let all our future patients suffer just BECAUSE we did not pick up any book for that one day? As a result I see absolutely no excuse that the school cannot shut down for one day or postpone one single exam. As a result, I see no excuse for the prof who kicked people out of that room at time of grieving. It is simply unacceptable.

    I also don't see a problem with people being anonymous. Some of you who support the school can sign your name all you want becaues the school won't come after and bite your tail when you try to apply for residency and need that dean's letter. That's not the case for people who criticize the school. If you all want to get on confusion's case for this, why don't you all post the negative things about the school (we all have some negative things to say, right?) and cite a particular professor who has been as$hole to you and sign your name at the end of that post.

    In sum, medicine is highly hierarchical and that's why changes are hard to be made (because people higher up can always screw you at every chance they get). Medicine also tends to attract gunners (or people who are serious about their work and let it be their whole life) and hence the attitude that people should simply "move on." I see that while I was on surgery rotation when Sept. 11 happened. I had no time to grieve or let the event sink in because things have to go on as usual. But what is the point of student being there? It is not like we are such an integral part of the team (esp. on surgery) that patients will die without us. I think that in Bob's case, this would be even more personal to the students involved.
     
  13. SimulD

    SimulD Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Apr 22, 2001
    Alexandria, VA
    I guess I don't know about everyone else, but on September 11th, our classes were canceled that morning/afternoon almost immediately. And, if a classmate committed suicide, I think they would definitely take a strong look at postponing it and consult with us on that decision.

    It is school, people. Med school is still just school, at least for 2 years. Give me a break, comparing a biochem exam to a medical emergency is not fair. Hell, it's laughable.
     
  14. solid_confusion

    solid_confusion Member 7+ Year Member

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    Apr 3, 2001
    City of Angels, USA
    Thank you very much for those of you who understand. True, regarding the death of the 2nd year the school was very understanding, but that's b/c it happened during Spring Break and the 2nd years had time to mourn and "move on". Too bad the same can't be said for us 1st years. It only seemed that the school was understanding and compassionate to the 2nd years b/c it was not inconvenient for the school. Unfortunately, b/c it was inconvenient in our situation, there was no compassion or understanding by the admin. I only request that you keep an open mind. Of course the students on this board will defend their school, I would too b/c it's my reputation on the line. I'm not concerned about that. I'm concerned about future students that may come here, and that a future or current student may resort to the action "Bob" made to take his life. There have been a number of students in our class who has admitted to "consider suicide" and that's a scary thought. Med school is difficult, but it should not be a high risk for suicide. If any of you still decide on attending this school, I only hope our class officers have made the impact to change the way things are being run here. I also hope that this event will make the school more sensitive to the issues and concerns of the students. For those COMP defenders, I am sorry if you think I am bashing, but my goal here is not to think of my own ass, but to open the minds of potential colleagues b/c I would have liked the same to be done for me. I'm sure you (the defenders) have been very thankful when you have been informed about bad rotations or residencies. I am doing the same here, but for future med students. If you still think that what I am doing is not right, just remember when a 3rd or 4th year informs you about bad rotations or even when an intern tells you that a particular residency isn't that great, and then you'll see my point. What comes around goes around. I've been informed in the future and have been thankful. I'm merely returning the favor. Just like you, I'd like to go to places with the least problems and what's best for me.
     
  15. SexyEgptnDr

    SexyEgptnDr Member 10+ Year Member

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    May 15, 2002
    Long Island, NY
    Solid Confusion-
    I appreciate what you are trying to do here...but playing this online battle is getting kind of boring. Let me state, I do feel bad for "Bob"...and I would hope to think that this is a lesson to everyone, especially those in your class that are suicidal, to seek the proper help/attention such as a counselor, psychiatrist...ect. After all, you don't want to be known as the class of depressed, psychotic doctors.
    Also, I understand that med school is extremely difficult and I know that there must be at least a dozen students per class that think of just throwing in the towel every week...but, what helps me when I am stressed is to actually hit the books and concentrate...then I feel more confidant and less stressed. So, my advice to you is to stop being online replying to others' comments and STUDY!!!!

    In other words, you can still remember "Bob" without letting him haunt you...don't let the anger consume you!
     
  16. GoForIt

    GoForIt Senior Member 7+ Year Member

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    Apr 14, 2002
    SexyEgptnDr,

    Very well said, and great advice.
     
  17. solid_confusion

    solid_confusion Member 7+ Year Member

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    Apr 3, 2001
    City of Angels, USA
    FYI...

    We're done with the 1st year. No more studying. Just time to relax, surf the net, check email, and enjoy the summer. Please don't tell me what to do, it's a free country.
    BTW, it's not all about Bob here...it's about everything else at this school.
     
  18. psyche

    psyche Member 7+ Year Member

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    Feb 24, 2002
    L.A.
    It sounds like there are at least a couple of different issues here: 1) the ordinary stresses that accompany the rigors of medical school; 2) an unresponsive administration; 3) frustration over working hard, paying a lot of money and ending up with mediocre instruction and so-so hospital rotations.

    The reaction to the med student's suicide is not entirely unexpected; this may just have been the tipping point that unleashed all these pent-up feelings. I did not apply to COMP but did attend an Open House there a year ago. Even at this kind of forum the administration seemed unreasonably demanding--asking applicants to send in applications on the very first day possible, handling questions regarding requirements in an excessively harsh manner considering the event was meant to attract applicants. I actually think COMP should be grateful they get such high calibre students considering the educational experience the school offers. If allopathic med schools in California weren't so oversubscribed, they'd have to make do with much less qualified students. From what it sounds like, the school needs an attitude readjustment.
     
  19. drfeelgood

    drfeelgood Born-again Baseball Fan 15+ Year Member

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    May 4, 2002
    Southern California
    Solid_Confusion (a.k.a. Solidly confused) I think you should spend more time studing and less time on SDN.

    As for "BOB" the first year medical student who blew his head off with a 9 mm handgun.....

    I don't feel sorry for him anymore, now that I heard he has a a young daughter. How selffisshh...

    His problem was that he didn't belong in med schoool in the first play. I hate it when COMP admits loser students under the american with disabilities act. It was because of ADD(i think?) that comp admitted BOB.. who claimed he was dyslexic.

    His family also claims that he is/was quit IMPULssive.

    Last thing you need is a doctor who has a hard (drah) time reading and acts on impulses. (aka i'll blow off my head cuz i got into an argument with my girlfreind) please!!!!!!
    I wonder if BOB showed up to the the panel on suicide prevention during behavioral science week....with the mother of an OHIO State Univ. MMed student who commiteed suicide last year??? or did he decide to skip class because he thought it was useless.

    I'm getting sick of solid_confussion trashing COMP. why don't you finish alll 4 years before you form an opinion.

    I feel well prepared by COMP for internship and residency. I was even told by a LOMA LINDA UNIV. Trauma Surgeon/Intensivist that I was shaky in the beginning of the 3rd year and turned into one of his best students by the end of the fourth year. And I have COMP to BLAME for it!!!! ha ha!! LOL

    Solid should transfer out!!! I'm sure UCLA will be on bended knees awaiting his arrivval. I'm going to play my David GREEN card and say that soild-confussion is the biggest loser ever. I don't care if SDN kicks me out.
     
  20. aecuenca

    aecuenca Senior Member 15+ Year Member

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    Sep 27, 1999
    San Diego, CA USA
    Hi again,

    solid_confusion is right about his/her orientation...from what I understand, it was very hard-edged, blunt kind of orientation with an emphasis of "study and don't fail". This affected clubs across the board because there was little participation/membership from the MS-I's. However, I spoke to the Dean about this issue, and we discussed ways to change orientation. I know that they are taking steps to change it in a more positive direction (I just submitted a funny orientation video filmed with several of your classmates on policy and procedures which will be used next year).

    I also wanted to comment on a few things solid brought up. Let's start with the "scantron incident". You are leaving a lot out of the incident. I discussed this particular incident with your 1st semester president (who by the way is a great person...I think he did a great job and it was a pleasure working with him) and he relayed to me that the professor wanted a form of penalization, but asked your class for the input. Remember, professors have the "academic freedom" to run the course the way they want it. Some are lenient, and some are strict; it comes with both positives and negatives. From what I understand, the penalty was not a harsh one, and no one was in danger of being dismissed (this is particularly important to note, because you wrote this in your post). Also, I talked to many of the students in your class about what occured during this exam, and many said that all of you were given numerous warnings to place the correct version on your scantron. Yet, 2 people failed to follow the directions. I suppose the point was a lesson in following directions. Something to think about.

    The second comment is about the cheating that occured in your class. Now, I was not asked to sit in the review process (thank goodness because it was a very long process), but one of our officers did. One thing to note is that nothing was caught on tape. I spoke to the class officer about how it was going and according to him/her, (who didn't give many details), things are not "clear-cut" but there was some form of academic dishonesty going on. The point is that there are reasons why and how administration decides to punish students that we are not allowed to know (which is a private matter, not only for the administration, but for the students involved). By law, no one is supposed to know the academic record of an individual (except for school officials...I believe it's the Furper (sp?) law). As far as those students dismissed for anatomy, there have to be reasons for doing so.

    Things have been tough for you MS-I's, but it's been just as hard for us as well. Our officers have had many "meetings" ranging from classroom disputes to academic dismissals. But almost all of these meetings came out in a positive direction. So for the person who stated that letting people know who I am is safe, let me assure you that I relayed the opinions and the issues of the class openly. In other words, I put my a$$ on the line for my class. That was my job. But, I have to be sure that both sides of the story are told and to not get my emotions involved in it. My job was to be a representative and to discuss issues with administration on a professional level. And the results were overall positive and fair.

    Though I am leaving in about a month, I want to offer any assistance to you or your officers of how you can improve communications between yourselves and COMP. I offered this before to your current president, but was never asked for assistance. This goes to all of the incoming MS-I's as well. If you have any questions, whether it be policy, academics, or just social stuff, just email me at either [email protected] or [email protected]

    Things are not perfect at COMP, and I know that solid is just trying to help you see some of the faults of COMP. I'll be happy to share with you the positives of COMP so that you get another perspective.

    To Psyche: I'm disturbed that you felt that way. I've worked with the admissions and recruitment office on several of these conferences and I know they are trying their best, but nothing is perfect. If you could relay how the experience for you was not a great one and perhaps ways that can improve it, I would be happy to send that over. Just send me a private message (so you can still remain anonymous).

    Keep an open mind and enjoy your summer. You're all going to need it.

    Arnold Cuenca
    MS-III
    Western University of Health Sciences/COMP
     
  21. SexyEgptnDr

    SexyEgptnDr Member 10+ Year Member

    102
    0
    May 15, 2002
    Long Island, NY
    Psyche-

    I think you're being very extreme in trashing someone who's already past away. Although my personal beliefs do not support suicide in any way, I still have to respect others' beliefs and wishes.

    Solid Confusion-

    I do respect where you're coming from, but you remind me of someone in the 3rd grade saying "It's a free country...so, I could do want I want to do..." I do not mind you expressing your thoughts and opinions, but lets pretend that we're adults...after all, I would hope that's a prerequisite to becoming a doctor. The fact that you have survived your first year is wonderful...but, maybe now you should learn to relax because with this attitude of yours, I don't think you will last very much longer.

    Maybe you should take some anger management classes or talk this out with someone that you trust...or maybe a better idea is to have a positive attitude about this and spread it to your class...after all, your class is the majority amongst the faculty. If your whole class comes together and pinpoints problems and proposes possible solutions, maybe your class can actually be productive, instead of just complainers.
     

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