yogiberra

Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Feb 15, 2005
38
0
Status
Hi everyone I am new to this board and was wondering if anyone can answer some concerns that I have.

I've been told that there are many paths to medical school, I outline the ones that I have been told by my student advisor from typical route to alternate routes, your input will be appreciated.

1. Traditional from college to medical school (MCAT, pre-reqs, etc)

2. If that doesn't bring success then a Post-bacc program that has linkeage to a medical school after completing the 1 or two year requirments you are addmitted to their medical school that they are linked to.

3. If that doesn't work you can go the Carribean route and after two years transfer to a American medical school and complete your studies (sort of like Junior or community college) although I hear this is difficult

4. Or the last option get medical degree from Carribean.

Am I on the right track thanks for the help-Yogi
 

FaytlND

Senior Member
15+ Year Member
Jun 14, 2004
988
546
Status
Fellow [Any Field]
Yeah, you are on the right track. The first is obviously the most traditional and the pathe of least resistance.

The second is true, but there are only a few post bacc programs have linkages to their med schools. Georgetown and BU are two that come to mind. The advantages there are that they may waive some require,ments that med students take if you have taken them as a post bacc. There are also many other post bacc programs you can attend in order to bring up the GPA and prove your ability in high level course work. The difference is that success doesn't necessarily make it easier to get into a med school in the sense that you won't get an "in" like at places with linked programs. Also, you may have to take very similar course work as an M1 and M2 that you did as a post bacc.

As for three, I would say that that is not something I would ever count on. First of all, med schools will tell you that they allow transfers, but it rarely happens and it usually has to be for a very good reason (ie need to move closer to family, have a spouse at the school, etc.) Further, even if you did have a good reason, coming from a Carribean school may be difficult. I imagine you would needto have stellar grades during your years there. So, what I am saying is that this should not be considered as a real option. if you are thinking Carribean, just go for the whole ride.

And I am not too sure on what the deal is with Carribean schools (try posting on the Caribbean board), but I have heard that while you can get a US residency, it can be more difficult. Residency directors will look for very strong grades and board scores, and require perhaps a little more than they would from someone coming from a US school.
 

2112_rush

M2
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Feb 16, 2004
150
0
Status
Don't forget about DO schools, which are a much better option than the Carribean route.
 

erin682

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
Oct 21, 2004
622
6
Hogwarts
Status
Attending Physician
2112_rush said:
Don't forget about DO schools, which are a much better option than the Carribean route.
I agree I would go to a DO school way before a Carribean school. DO's have match rates similar to MD schools as opposed to Carribean schools where it is much much lower. Plus Carribean schools are easy to get in but hard to stay in. US schools weed out through admission and do a lot to help you pass once you get there. Carribean schools weed out through their academics. I would hate to go through all of this only to flunk out.
 

guitarguy09

Member
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Apr 23, 2004
348
0
Northeast
Status
Resident [Any Field]
I would also agree that the D.O. route is probably better than going out of the country for the M.D.

In addition, I might be mistaken but I think that one of the schools in Philadelphia (either Drexel or Jefferson) has a post-bac. program like you're referring to. Hope that helps.
 

merovingian

Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Jul 10, 2003
104
0
Visit site
Status
Yes, DO schools are a much better option than getting your MD abroad. In general, learning medicine in the US, no matter whether MD or DO, is still a notch higher than other institutions outside the US. At least I've been told, but I believe it, and doctors I've talked to have told me if it comes down to a DO school in the US, or a Carribean school, go Osteopathic.
 

JAMMAN

Chief Exceutive Officer
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Oct 9, 2004
263
0
Location: Location:
Status
Attending Physician
merovingian said:
Yes, DO schools are a much better option than getting your MD abroad. In general, learning medicine in the US, no matter whether MD or DO, is still a notch higher than other institutions outside the US. At least I've been told, but I believe it, and doctors I've talked to have told me if it comes down to a DO school in the US, or a Carribean school, go Osteopathic.
Disagree.

US Citizens with foreign MD's are often more desirable to competitive programs than DO's. This is my opinion from a variety of observations which include:

Friends who are DOs.
Friends who are foreign MDs.
My involvement in resident recruitment at more than one institution.

Why is this often true? I don't entirely know.

Feel free to disagree with me...but support your arguement please.
 

Blue Scrub

The Gift & The Curse
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Feb 16, 2005
1,028
1
Status
Isn't it a harder road for a foreign MD to get into a competitive residency unless they do super well on their boards, rotations, and their grades? Im guessing a US medical student and a foreign grad with the same stats (boards, rotations, grades) competing for the same residency, the US grad will win out almost always. Obviously DO's will not be competing for many MD residencies, but I agree that the quality of education in DO schools is probably still better than educations obtained abroad.
 

HrsNJ

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Jan 12, 2005
109
0
NJ
Status
This is veering away from the DO conversation, but I just wanted to point out that I felt there were a lot of non-tradiational applicants when I was interviewing. It seems that more and more people are graduating from college, spending a few years working (sometimes doing research or something else related to medicine but other times not--I met a guy who had spent two years curating an art gallery in LA, which I thought was very cool). These people were not those who had tried to apply to medical school and been rejected, they were just folks who weren't ready to jump into med school just yet. They had a lot of interesting things to say and I feel that the experience will help them out in the long run.

So keep in mind that taking a few years off doesn't have to be a second choice. :)
 

Blue Scrub

The Gift & The Curse
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Feb 16, 2005
1,028
1
Status
I agree with you HrsNJ in the fact that I think non-trads are being looked upon more favorably these days than they have before...I am a non-trad myself...I did a post-bacc program for two years after college, and now I am working a 9-5 for the rest of the year until I start this Fall...but I think students with unique experiences or coming from post-bacc and graduate programs are becoming more accepted
 

OSUdoc08

Membership Revoked
Removed
15+ Year Member
Sep 30, 2003
7,698
6
Status
Medical Student
JAMMAN said:
Disagree.

US Citizens with foreign MD's are often more desirable to competitive programs than DO's. This is my opinion from a variety of observations which include:

Friends who are DOs.
Friends who are foreign MDs.
My involvement in resident recruitment at more than one institution.

Why is this often true? I don't entirely know.

Feel free to disagree with me...but support your arguement please.
M.D.'s have an average of a 90% pass rate on the USMLE over the past several years. D.O.'s have an average of an 80% pass rate on the USMLE during that same time period.

Foreign M.D.'s have only a 65% pass rate.

(Source: USMLE website.)

The reason why this is interesting:

D.O.'s can get accepted into M.D. residencies with only the COMLEX scores, meaning that even though only 80% pass the USMLE, a much higher amount of graduates have passed the COMLEX (90%). These people are still getting the residency spots. The ability to combine both exams makes a DO an even more competitive applicant.

The statement that IMG's are OFTEN MORE desireable that DO's would be erroneous. Every state in the US accepts DO's for medical licensure. Such DO's need not pass the USMLE, but only are required to take the COMLEX. They may be licensed by the USMLE in most states, however.

IMG's on the other hand are not qualified for licensure in all states, even if they take the USMLE. It is because of this that many residency programs will not accept such graduates.

It must also be noted that DO's have their own residency programs, and MD's are not allowed to apply for such programs. It is because of this that DO's may apply to more residency programs than MD's.
 

jennifermov

10+ Year Member
Feb 16, 2005
224
0
around the corner
Status
Let's not also forget about graduate school. Its becoming common for schools to have a 1-year Master's program that is non-research oriented (meaning only classes, no thesis!). Granted there's no stipend involved (as would be the case if you were pre-doctoral candidate), but it's a way to "pass the time" while you're waiting to re-apply. Having an extra degree can't hurt your chances!

Jen
 

OSUdoc08

Membership Revoked
Removed
15+ Year Member
Sep 30, 2003
7,698
6
Status
Medical Student
jennifermov said:
Let's not also forget about graduate school. Its becoming common for schools to have a 1-year Master's program that is non-research oriented (meaning only classes, no thesis!). Granted there's no stipend involved (as would be the case if you were pre-doctoral candidate), but it's a way to "pass the time" while you're waiting to re-apply. Having an extra degree can't hurt your chances!

Jen
I've never heard of 1-year Master's programs in my area of the country.

However, there are several schools that have 1-year Post-Bacc programs. Some are to prepare you for medical schools, and others offer some of the actual medical school courses.

UNT-TCOM in Texas offers a 1-year prep program at the med school.

OSU-COM in Oklahoma offers a 1-year linked program that allows you to enter the med school class the following year.
 

Blue Scrub

The Gift & The Curse
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Feb 16, 2005
1,028
1
Status
I have never heard of 1-year Master's Programs either, but there are 1-yr post-bacc and 1-yr certificate programs, many of which if you decide to come back and complete a second year, only then will you be awarded a Master's degree
 

Phil Anthropist

SDN Moderator
Moderator Emeritus
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Mar 14, 2004
5,131
4
Visit site
Status
There are actually lots of 1-year hard science masters programs. These are often discussed in the postbac forum. Some examples would be Georgetown (Physio and Biophysics), Boston U (Medical Sciences), Rosalind Franklin (Applied Physio), FAU (Biomedical), Illinois (Chemistry), Columbia (Nutrition), Indiana (Biology), KCUMB (Biomedical Sciences), Maryland (Physiology), Syracuse (Neuroscience), Northwestern (Neuroscience and Physio), and Tulane (Genetics, Pharmacology, Cell/Molecular). And there's many more.

It's not typical, but the minimum time for completion of OSUCOM's MS in Biomedical Sciences is one year. http://www.healthsciences.okstate.edu/biomedical/ms_degree.htm
 

jennifermov

10+ Year Member
Feb 16, 2005
224
0
around the corner
Status
Phil Anthropist said:
There are actually lots of 1-year hard science masters programs. These are often discussed in the postbac forum. Some examples would be Georgetown (Physio and Biophysics), Boston U (Medical Sciences), Rosalind Franklin (Applied Physio), FAU (Biomedical), Illinois (Chemistry), Columbia (Nutrition), Indiana (Biology), KCUMB (Biomedical Sciences), Maryland (Physiology), Syracuse (Neuroscience), Northwestern (Neuroscience and Physio), and Tulane (Genetics, Pharmacology, Cell/Molecular). And there's many more.

It's not typical, but the minimum time for completion of OSUCOM's MS in Biomedical Sciences is one year. http://www.healthsciences.okstate.edu/biomedical/ms_degree.htm
Phil Anthropist is absolutely right (thanks for backing me up!) When I talked to the Dept. Head of Pharmacology/MCB at Tulane back in 2002, she mentioned that these sorts of programs were becoming more prevalent.
 

gujuDoc

10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Feb 21, 2004
13,874
36
Status
Medical Student, Resident [Any Field]
Blue Scrub said:
I have never heard of 1-year Master's Programs either, but there are 1-yr post-bacc and 1-yr certificate programs, many of which if you decide to come back and complete a second year, only then will you be awarded a Master's degree
There are many one year master's programs.

One such program is the Georgetown SMP program which is discussed a lot on the postbac forum.


Edited to say:

Disregard my post. I didn't realize that someone beat me to the punch in saying what I was going to say. :laugh: :laugh:
 

Phil Anthropist

SDN Moderator
Moderator Emeritus
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Mar 14, 2004
5,131
4
Visit site
Status
jennifermov said:
Phil Anthropist is absolutely right (thanks for backing me up!) When I talked to the Dept. Head of Pharmacology/MCB at Tulane back in 2002, she mentioned that these sorts of programs were becoming more prevalent.
No prob. By the way, welcome to SDN! :D
Blue Scrub said:
I have never heard of 1-year Master's Programs either, but there are 1-yr post-bacc and 1-yr certificate programs, many of which if you decide to come back and complete a second year, only then will you be awarded a Master's degree
This is a good point too. Some examples would be the pre-medical certificate programs at Virginia Commonwealth and Drexel's MSP and IMS programs. 1 year for the certificate, an additional year for the master's. I think this is true of the TCOM program too, but I'd have to check
Phil Anthropist said:
There are actually lots of 1-year hard science masters programs. These are often discussed in the postbac forum. Some examples would be Georgetown (Physio and Biophysics), Boston U (Medical Sciences), Rosalind Franklin (Applied Physio), FAU (Biomedical), Illinois (Chemistry), Columbia (Nutrition), Indiana (Biology), KCUMB (Biomedical Sciences), Maryland (Physiology), Syracuse (Neuroscience), Northwestern (Neuroscience and Physio), and Tulane (Genetics, Pharmacology, Cell/Molecular). And there's many more.

It's not typical, but the minimum time for completion of OSUCOM's MS in Biomedical Sciences is one year. http://www.healthsciences.okstate.edu/biomedical/ms_degree.htm
Just wanted to clarify on something here. All of these can be completed in one year, but since I was somewhat referring to Jen's post (referring to 1-year non-thesis programs) this might be a little misleading.

The Boston U program requires a thesis (but you can do a library-based thesis, which sounds like a review article to me, or a library/lab-based thesis). Tulane's 1-year MS in Pharm also requries a thesis. For the Illinois program, the thesis is optional. I'm pretty sure the rest are non-thesis programs.
 

shahalam

brownmedstudent
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Sep 16, 2004
283
0
The South
Status
Medical Student
UofL has a program called GEMS where if you are accepted and make a certain score on the MCAT (pretty low i think) and maintain a certain GPA (average i believe) while attending their university, you are automatically accepted to their medical school.