Married, Have Baby, & want to do Med School Together

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

MedicalHumanity

New Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
I am 20, have been happily married for 2 years, have a 6 month old baby, and currently working full time and going to school full time. We do not have a baby sitter, but do opposite schedules. He works nights and goes to school in the early AM and a few online. I work days, go to school early evening and a couple online(18 credit hours this semester, each). We love our daughter more than life itself. But we also are both committed to a future in medicine. We personally both plan on the long haul- first getting our bach. in biomedical sciences, then masters of science in public health in global communicable disease, then applying for MD/PHD programs, trying to get in together, and then upon graduating trying to go for combined EM/IM residencies. He is interested in pursuing immunology fellowship and I am interested in a fellowship in infectious diseases. My only worry: finances. The loans aren't what scares me. It's the not being able to work during med school. How are we supposed to pay the bills? I know with the MSTP programs available we could live off stipends. But what if we don't get funding? Has a married couple accomplished that before? (Both getting into a MSTP progam with funding either close to one another or at the same school- long distance would not work with our daughter. It would be demanding and unfair to her) If there are any married med students that are married to another med student, how do you pay for the bills? Are there scholarships for this type of situation to help beyond loans. As I said, loans are not my concern, but rather living expenses during med school. Also, do you have children? How has this affected them? Personally, I am not worried about the stress of med school on a marriage- we are strong- have been through so much already, and are completely and undoubtedly committed to one another. With stressful situations, we actually thrive well by assisting each other- in school, life and in general. I just want to know if the finances are possible and how. I believe where there is a will there is a way. Any advice/experience appreciated. Thanks!!!

Members don't see this ad.
 
I am 20, have been happily married for 2 years, have a 6 month old baby, and currently working full time and going to school full time. We do not have a baby sitter, but do opposite schedules. He works nights and goes to school in the early AM and a few online. I work days, go to school early evening and a couple online(18 credit hours this semester, each). We love our daughter more than life itself. But we also are both committed to a future in medicine. We personally both plan on the long haul- first getting our bach. in biomedical sciences, then masters of science in public health in global communicable disease, then applying for MD/PHD programs, trying to get in together, and then upon graduating trying to go for combined EM/IM residencies. He is interested in pursuing immunology fellowship and I am interested in a fellowship in infectious diseases. My only worry: finances. The loans aren't what scares me. It's the not being able to work during med school. How are we supposed to pay the bills? I know with the MSTP programs available we could live off stipends. But what if we don't get funding? Has a married couple accomplished that before? (Both getting into a MSTP progam with funding either close to one another or at the same school- long distance would not work with our daughter. It would be demanding and unfair to her) If there are any married med students that are married to another med student, how do you pay for the bills? Are there scholarships for this type of situation to help beyond loans. As I said, loans are not my concern, but rather living expenses during med school. Also, do you have children? How has this affected them? Personally, I am not worried about the stress of med school on a marriage- we are strong- have been through so much already, and are completely and undoubtedly committed to one another. With stressful situations, we actually thrive well by assisting each other- in school, life and in general. I just want to know if the finances are possible and how. I believe where there is a will there is a way. Any advice/experience appreciated. Thanks!!!

the path might be too long, that's all. master and then MD/PHD?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I am 20, have been happily married for 2 years, have a 6 month old baby, and currently working full time and going to school full time. We do not have a baby sitter, but do opposite schedules. He works nights and goes to school in the early AM and a few online. I work days, go to school early evening and a couple online(18 credit hours this semester, each). We love our daughter more than life itself. But we also are both committed to a future in medicine. We personally both plan on the long haul- first getting our bach. in biomedical sciences, then masters of science in public health in global communicable disease, then applying for MD/PHD programs, trying to get in together, and then upon graduating trying to go for combined EM/IM residencies. He is interested in pursuing immunology fellowship and I am interested in a fellowship in infectious diseases. My only worry: finances. The loans aren't what scares me. It's the not being able to work during med school. How are we supposed to pay the bills? I know with the MSTP programs available we could live off stipends. But what if we don't get funding? Has a married couple accomplished that before? (Both getting into a MSTP progam with funding either close to one another or at the same school- long distance would not work with our daughter. It would be demanding and unfair to her) If there are any married med students that are married to another med student, how do you pay for the bills? Are there scholarships for this type of situation to help beyond loans. As I said, loans are not my concern, but rather living expenses during med school. Also, do you have children? How has this affected them? Personally, I am not worried about the stress of med school on a marriage- we are strong- have been through so much already, and are completely and undoubtedly committed to one another. With stressful situations, we actually thrive well by assisting each other- in school, life and in general. I just want to know if the finances are possible and how. I believe where there is a will there is a way. Any advice/experience appreciated. Thanks!!!

My God. You are talking about finishing your undergraduate work (how many more years? 1? 2? 3? more?), then going to an MPH/MSPH program (another 2 years), an MD/PhD (which takes, on average, 8 years to finish, but can take as many as 10), and then a combined residency that is 5 years long?

You won't be making a decent living for another 18+ years. You are still very young - the odds of changing your mind at some point over the next 18 years are probably pretty great.

What is the purpose of the MPH/MSPH followed by MD/PhD, to go into EM/IM? Why stay in school for that long?
 
My God. You are talking about finishing your undergraduate work (how many more years? 1? 2? 3? more?), then going to an MPH/MSPH program (another 2 years), an MD/PhD (which takes, on average, 8 years to finish, but can take as many as 10), and then a combined residency that is 5 years long?

You won't be making a decent living for another 18+ years. You are still very young - the odds of changing your mind at some point over the next 18 years are probably pretty great.

What is the purpose of the MPH/MSPH followed by MD/PhD, to go into EM/IM? Why stay in school for that long?

i agree. why not skip the masters and apply straight to MD/PhD.. do you have the research experiences? and i think loans are made so that they do not only cover tuiton and school but your living expenses too.
 
Don't Listen to the haters, they may not have the stones you do. I'll have an 18 month-old when(IF!!) I get in, and I know it will be hard, but I am not deterred one bit. You must consider, however, that this child has had no say in your choices to go to med school. Do you have a good support network? Are there parents and friends ready to help at a moments notice, as surrogates? Are you, personally, comfortable with the fact that you will both miss some of your child's upbringing in order to pursue this? If you were not present for kindergartens, plays, recitals, birthday parties, etc., will that bother you? These are not things you are going to want to look back on with remorse for not participating. Likewise, if you had an experience-full childhood (sports, music, art, culture, travel, etc.) are you prepared to face the idea that your child may have limits to these experiences?

I empathize greatly with your situation, which is only exacerbated by both of you wanting to attend medicine. This is, of course, do-able. Are you prepared to sacrifice the opportunities of your child in order to explore your own? If you commit, let nothing hold you back, and no regrets!
 
Don't Listen to the haters, they may not have the stones you do. I'll have an 18 month-old when(IF!!) I get in, and I know it will be hard, but I am not deterred one bit. You must consider, however, that this child has had no say in your choices to go to med school. Do you have a good support network? Are there parents and friends ready to help at a moments notice, as surrogates? Are you, personally, comfortable with the fact that you will both miss some of your child's upbringing in order to pursue this? If you were not present for kindergartens, plays, recitals, birthday parties, etc., will that bother you? These are not things you are going to want to look back on with remorse for not participating. Likewise, if you had an experience-full childhood (sports, music, art, culture, travel, etc.) are you prepared to face the idea that your child may have limits to these experiences?

I empathize greatly with your situation, which is only exacerbated by both of you wanting to attend medicine. This is, of course, do-able. Are you prepared to sacrifice the opportunities of your child in order to explore your own? If you commit, let nothing hold you back, and no regrets!


I don't think anyone's hating has anything to do with the fact that she has a child.. everyone is saying the same thing they would say if she were a single woman suggesting getting a bachelor's, master's, then an MD/PhD. The Master's seems a totally unreasonable waste of time unless she has a specific reason for it, and at this point in her life it doesn't seem like wasting time would serve any useful purpose.
 
When you are accepted to an MD/PhD program, you don't pay tuition, and you get an additional stipend for living expenses, at least at every institution I'm aware of. That should help the loan situation considerably. The likelihood that you'd both be admitted to programs in the same area must be considered. You could end up following your dreams, but in different states. Since you're planning for the long haul, why not takes turns completing your educations. You can see on the non-trad forum that many 30-, 40-, and some 50-something-year-olds are applying to med school. You can take turns parenting so your child has sufficient contact with one of you.
 
I'm assuming that because you are working on your undergrad degrees that you have not done any/ substantial research. If so, planning to apply to MSTP programs is a stretch at this point.

Nowadays, securing one acceptance to a US allo med school is a challenge. Securing two acceptances to schools in the same area (let alone same school) is going to be a feat. Take that a step further and consider 2 acceptances to an MSTP at the same school (much more competivitive) and this is highly unlikely in all honesty. Without knowing exactly what you want to do with your life, I would say getting and MPH is not a requisite for anything.

Basically, I say none of this to deter you from anything. Your post just tells me that you need a little more time in the game to figure out how things work/ decide what you want to do and the best road to take with your fam to get there.

Step 1 is simply making sure that you both do well in your ugrad coursework, etc. One day at a time.
 
How are we supposed to pay the bills?
Student loans will cover living expenses too. Perhaps the money saved by sharing rent, etc with your husband will be enough to take care of your child.

I know with the MSTP programs available we could live off stipends. But what if we don't get funding?
Like mentioned before, getting into any MSTP program is really hard. Even if you 'settle' for MD, loans will cover it. Additionally, schools will understand your situation and give you more if you need it.

Are there scholarships for this type of situation to help beyond loans.
Not sure, but I'm sure you'll qualify for many of the need-based scholarships anyway.
 
i think the hardest part will be getting into the SAME medical school or medical schools that are rather close in proximity.
 
The Masters is because I don't have enough research under my belt. In addition, I felt it would help put a competitive edge on us. I don't know if a lot of MD/PhD people already have grad degrees, but it doesn't sound like it. I felt that would increase our chances. Add to that stellar MCAT scores and high GPA's- with a Masters and some time to do research, I feel we can only increase the odds. I figure it's two years out of our lives to help secure the path to the rest of our life. I may be young, but truthfully, once I am committed to something, I don't change my mind. I know what I want, and I will go for that. I would not mind to do MD, then take a PhD later(though I honestly feel the MD/PhD programs truly explore all aspects of medicine in the set-up of the curricullum), but I feel both are important to the carrer I want to pursue, and personally, for a deeper understanding. I never even really considered taking them apart because I did not think that the loans would allow for living expenses. I also was told that loans cannot be taken out for more than $30,000/year. What if that only covers tuition?

And about children- you are right, it is hard on them to pursue something that puts such constraints on your time. But please consider this. It will teach our daughter to value education and to work hard. When we do this, I will do my best to impose as few sacrifices on her as possible. I do believe it is possible that we can be as much a part of her life as children need. That's a big reason why we don't do daycare now. She gets half the day with her daddy and half the day with her mommy, and she loves the weekends and holidays when it's all of us together. If nothing else, with the two of us in school and school only, we will actually be home at the same time more often than we are now. Granted, it will be spent studying. I also know it is uncomparable, but even at 18 credit hours, when I get home from school, I play with my daughter and spend time with her until it is time for her to sleep. Then I start my studies/homework. It allows a break from my day and from thinking in general, just to de-stress and escape to somewhere else for a little while. And my daughter gets "mommy time". Every night, and every weekend. If I know med school is demanding, but I can work 50 hour weeks and handle 18 credit hours, and not fluffy classes, but actual meat and potatoes courses, get the highest grades in all my classes and still be a mommy that is capable of showing her daughter as much love and devotion and affection as any other 6 month old receives from a stay at home mom that never goes to school, etc. I function that way because of the support network between my husband and I. We have each other and that's how we do it and that's how we've done it all along. We've faced great obstacles aside from this as well, and we've only proven that we can handle it. I am not worried about handling it, or balancing priorities. I believe with a lot of hard work, it is possible not to sacrifice family for medicine.

I know it can be tough at times, but my daughter will always know she is loved and that I am devoted to her.

The main question in my post is about finances. I just really don't know much about this aspect of med school and everything I have read about married med students are about med students that are married, but their spouse is a non-med student. I really specifically would like to know what two married med students do financially. I know it's been done before, I just wondered how.

I know that the MSTP provide stipends as someone else mentioned in their posts above, however in some schools those are only during the graduate years, and in other schools it is the whole time, and still in other schools, they accept more people than they have funding for, therefore some students do get accepted, but without funding. If that's the case, I wanted to have a "Plan B" for finances. I don't want to solely rely on the idea that we would both get accepted to programs AND both be fully funded with stipends throughout. That is highly difficult to attain, but not impossible, and I believe we could do it(no doubt in my mind we COULD do it), but want to have back up plans for finances. The loans would be fine- we could pay those back once we got out(or rather, defer them until we finish our fellowships & then pay them back when we finish those). Would be nice to have a scholarship, but if not, it wouldn't really be a huge issue. The everyday living expenses, however, is where I've been stuck.

We have both always worked. Before the baby, we both worked two jobs and went to school full time. So, I am not sure how to do it with NEITHER of us working....

Anyways, still open to more advice/experience.

I will check into the loans with the local med school & ask them about living expenses as well. I appreciate all of your responses thus far.
 
Last edited:
I also was told that loans cannot be taken out for more than $30,000/year. What if that only covers tuition?

You're wrong, you can take out up to the cost of attendance. So if the estimated cost of attendance at your school is 70,000 per year, thats how much they will give you. Cost of attendance includes rent, bills and everything else not just tuition.

Are both of you really interested in research? If one of you is not, then that person should ditch the masters/MD/Ph.D route. If your main goal is to deal with patients a MD will do just fine. Plus that person could finish school earlier than the other and begin making money much sooner to support your child.

Masters 2 years + MD/PHD 6+ years means 8 years at the least not counting undergrad before you make any money. Whereas if one of you went strictly MD then you could be making about 45,000/yr as a resident after only 4 years then about 5 or 6 times that amount in the time the other person would just be finishing their MD/PHD program.

There are also some schools that allow couples to apply together, I can't recall which ones they are but you may want to consider that route.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I wouldn't recommend doing a Masters simply to get research experience. If you want research experience, get a tech job for a few years...at least then they'll be paying you rather than the other way around. You also want to be careful, there are limits on how much graduate work you can have for most MD/PhD programs...

If you've never done research, you both really need to try a fair amount before considering an MSTP program. Students applying for those usually have excellent grades and a good amount of research experience. Most of those programs aren't very large and thus are very unlikely to take a married couple. If you don't intend to devote a lot of time to research, it doesn't make sense to do MSTP and you won't enjoy it. Do not underestimate the time demands of research or medical school.

You'd have much better luck applying MD and doing some research while in med school or as a fellowship during/after your residency. Michigan allows you to designate that you're applying as a couple, not sure of any others.
 
If this is really your goal, take things one step at a time. You still have pre-reqs to take, the MCAT, research experience, clinical experience, and then you have to apply and get in. Don't pick up a masters degree simply to make you more competitive. Luckily you have time on your side, you don't need to have all of this figured out right away, and quite frankly you shouldn't because I can guarantee you that if you've planned out the next 14 years of your life a lot of things are going to change along the way. Focus on doing as well as you can now, and get involved in some research because you very well might decide you hate it.
 
Last edited:
I wouldn't recommend doing a Masters simply to get research experience. If you want research experience, get a tech job for a few years...at least then they'll be paying you rather than the other way around.

Seconded. As long as you do well in your undergraduate coursework and get a competitive MCAT score, there's no need for that Masters degree. That's an extra two years of tuition for something that you won't use for 15 or so years. Instead, work in a lab as a tech or scientist for a couple of years to decide whether or not the PhD is worth it to you. That way, you will get paid, tuition/fees will not be siphoning off your money, and you might even be able to put away some savings.

MD/PhD programs like the one at my institution do provide a stipend for all years of study, including the MD years. Tuition is also waived. However, while this sounds like a great bargain (get out of school debt free), the stipend isn't very much and you will still have to live frugally. I'm not certain what the particulars are concerning dependents, but I'm pretty sure that the MD/PhD students at my school have the option of taking out some loans in order to cover any living expenses not covered by their stipend. Whether or not you can take out Staffords (vs. private loans), I don't know. Either way, without a lot of support, it's going to be a rough 8-10 years of MD/PhD on you, your husband, and your child - both in terms of time and money (ESPECIALLY if you and your husband plan to do MS3 and intern years concurrently - you will have much less flexibility in your schedule).

While I appreciate that you are committed to this career path and don't change your mind easily, 15-18 years is an extremely long time. I reiterate that this will be a very long path for you and your spouse. It means that you are likely to finish residency and enter the workforce after your child has become an adult. Your child will grow up having two parents living on student/resident budgets and being away from home a lot, sometimes both at the same time and at odd hours. I'm not saying that it can't be done, or that failure is inevitable - I'm simply saying that there are no guarantees. You need to be flexible in medicine. It is very difficult for one person to gain admission to an MD/PhD program - I can only imagine what it would be like for two. Also, there are currently only 11 EM/IM programs available in the country (my institution has one of them) - another thing to keep in mind is that you may have to uproot again after medical school - which can be tough on a young adolescent. But I'm getting way ahead of myself here. First steps are maintaining a competitive GPA and acing the MCAT. Good luck.
 
Why are you so desperate to do a MD/PhD program? It seems pretty unnecessery and impractical given your situation (having a kid). Its only going to create several extra years of work and debt for you and your husband.

I wish I could fastforward several years to see what you actually end up doing. I bet it'll be very different.

Oh and for gods sake, use the enter key once in a while. Really long ass paragraphs are rather annoying to read on a computer.
 
I think you should just take one step at a time. Right now, just make sure that you maintain a good gpa, score well on the mcat, get some clinical experience, and get into a lab as well. You need to do these things just to have a shot at MD programs, much less MD/PhD which are way more competive. And to be realistic, the chances that both of you will get accepted into nearby schools is not too great. Unless you both are stellar candidates (which you both very well may be), the goal is usually to get into atleast one school. But, even this is getting way too far ahead. Just take things one at a time and realize that things may very well change. I mean, you may end up hating research or you may find out that medicine isn't for you or your husband may change his plans as well, who knows. Just go slowly and best of luck :)
 
So, have you done any research?! How do you know you want to do the MD/PhD route if you haven't?! How do you know what you want to specialize in? You're taking way too many steps at one time. Here are some other things.

1. If you can't get into a MD/PhD program that will fully funded, don't do it. It is not worth it to go in debt. Just plan on getting a PhD sometime else in your training.
2. I'm not sure how likely it will be that you match together in the same MD/PhD program....
3. I think in general it is a super bad idea to get a MD/PhD just because it might help you get into x residency or it *MIGHT* help land a fellowship... People change... A lot of MD/PhD'ers even change what specialty they want even if they researched in a totally different one.
4. What is the purpose of the PhD and the fellowship? Do you want to go into academics? How do you know?

Have you shadowing any academic MD's or MD/PhDs? Talk to them first...

Also, I'll repeat what a few others have said: Most masters degrees aren't geared for just research. Most require a lot of classes and not much research time..... Getting a MS will not necessarily help out your application... Being a lab tech will. Good luck!
 
Financial aid, most of which is often in the form of loans, covers living expenses as well as tuition and fees during medical school.

I concur with the opinion that a MS or MPH is not a good choice and will not give you an edge in a MD/PhD program.

You must find a way to get some research experience as well as some clinical exposure. For admission to a MD/PhD program you will need to have done some original research (usually in biological or biochemical lab sciences, not public health) -- presentations or publications of your work are often expected of applicants to these programs.

To get into an MD/PhD program, you need to show that you are interested in doing a doctoral degree in some area of laboratory science and preparing for a career as a scientist. If you aren't looking for a career with a lot of time spent in a lab then the MD/PhD is not for you. Don't head in that direction because you are attracted to the stipend/tuition...

Don't get ahead of yourself and take things slow. Perhaps you can do med school one after the other with one working and one in school and then switch. One very successful applicant in the last cycle was a non-trad whose spouse was just finishing residency. This might take a little longer but actually not as long as the MPH and then MD/PhD route.
 
If this is really your goal, take things one step at a time. You still have pre-reqs to take, the MCAT, research experience, clinical experience, and then you have to apply and get in. Don't pick up a masters degree simply to make you more competitive. Luckily you have time on your side, you don't need to have all of this figured out right away, and quite frankly you shouldn't because I can guarantee you that if you've planned out the next 14 years of your life a lot of things are going to change along the way. Focus on doing as well as you can now, and get involved in some research because you very well might decide you hate it.

i agree.

and I think that you shouldn't get a masters just for research experience. as a matter of fact, there are very few reasons why people should get an MS before a PhD. And an MPH is very different work from what you would get with most PhDs, because it's very clinically oriented.

now I have a few questions. first, what kind of research are you interested in? if you're interested in clinical research (so like reviewing charts, doing various studies that involve tracking patient outcomes, but for the most part no basic science. so just identifying associations and connections basically), then you might want to look into getting a masters in clinical research after doing just an MD program. my sister did this (she had her first daughter 6 months after starting her masters) and the nice thing is that she's on the faculty at a medical school now and her schedule is relatively flexible.

so if you're interested in clinical research and not basic science, then I would definitely say that getting a PhD will do nothing for you.

if you're interested in basic science, there are other ways of getting into basic science research without a PhD. my brother-in-law is a good example of that. he did a one-year research fellowship after his residency and now he does some basic science work. the major drawback is that you really lack formal research training that you get with a PhD program. I really don't like the research fellowship approach because many people are severely hindered by this lack of formal training and have not had the time to develop the ability to think creatively about their research.

the other question is, have you considered getting your PhD and MDs separately? in other words, instead of through an MD/PhD or MSTP program, you could get the two degrees separately. this can be a little funky too, but all the approaches to good research careers are. but one thing is that, you can both get PhDs while your daughter is young, and then by the time you finish your daughter will be a little older and that way it might be a little more convenient.

incidentally, i wouldn't worry about not getting funding at an MD/PhD program, because most are MSTP funded and even if they're not they usually find funding for you.

but I definitely want to say that I'm extremely impressed by how incredibly mature your posts are. I wish I were that mature actually. I think that you'll be fine no matter what you choose to do, and financially I think you'll also be fine, you might need a little bit as far as loans are concerned but besides that it should work out.

one last thing... I'm applying to MD/PhD right now and a lot of the secondaries ask questions about your spouse and what your spouse does. Michigan actually has the option to say if you're applying as a couple. so I don't think it's as much of a stretch as people would have you believe to get in as long as you're both competitive applicants.

best of luck! i really hope things go well!
 
The Masters is because I don't have enough research under my belt. In addition, I felt it would help put a competitive edge on us. I don't know if a lot of MD/PhD people already have grad degrees, but it doesn't sound like it. I felt that would increase our chances. Add to that stellar MCAT scores and high GPA's- with a Masters and some time to do research, I feel we can only increase the odds. I figure it's two years out of our lives to help secure the path to the rest of our life. I may be young, but truthfully, once I am committed to something, I don't change my mind. I know what I want, and I will go for that. I would not mind to do MD, then take a PhD later(though I honestly feel the MD/PhD programs truly explore all aspects of medicine in the set-up of the curricullum), but I feel both are important to the carrer I want to pursue, and personally, for a deeper understanding. I never even really considered taking them apart because I did not think that the loans would allow for living expenses. I also was told that loans cannot be taken out for more than $30,000/year. What if that only covers tuition?

And about children- you are right, it is hard on them to pursue something that puts such constraints on your time. But please consider this. It will teach our daughter to value education and to work hard. When we do this, I will do my best to impose as few sacrifices on her as possible. I do believe it is possible that we can be as much a part of her life as children need. That's a big reason why we don't do daycare now. She gets half the day with her daddy and half the day with her mommy, and she loves the weekends and holidays when it's all of us together. If nothing else, with the two of us in school and school only, we will actually be home at the same time more often than we are now. Granted, it will be spent studying. I also know it is uncomparable, but even at 18 credit hours, when I get home from school, I play with my daughter and spend time with her until it is time for her to sleep. Then I start my studies/homework. It allows a break from my day and from thinking in general, just to de-stress and escape to somewhere else for a little while. And my daughter gets "mommy time". Every night, and every weekend. If I know med school is demanding, but I can work 50 hour weeks and handle 18 credit hours, and not fluffy classes, but actual meat and potatoes courses, get the highest grades in all my classes and still be a mommy that is capable of showing her daughter as much love and devotion and affection as any other 6 month old receives from a stay at home mom that never goes to school, etc. I function that way because of the support network between my husband and I. We have each other and that's how we do it and that's how we've done it all along. We've faced great obstacles aside from this as well, and we've only proven that we can handle it. I am not worried about handling it, or balancing priorities. I believe with a lot of hard work, it is possible not to sacrifice family for medicine.

I know it can be tough at times, but my daughter will always know she is loved and that I am devoted to her.

The main question in my post is about finances. I just really don't know much about this aspect of med school and everything I have read about married med students are about med students that are married, but their spouse is a non-med student. I really specifically would like to know what two married med students do financially. I know it's been done before, I just wondered how.

I know that the MSTP provide stipends as someone else mentioned in their posts above, however in some schools those are only during the graduate years, and in other schools it is the whole time, and still in other schools, they accept more people than they have funding for, therefore some students do get accepted, but without funding. If that's the case, I wanted to have a "Plan B" for finances. I don't want to solely rely on the idea that we would both get accepted to programs AND both be fully funded with stipends throughout. That is highly difficult to attain, but not impossible, and I believe we could do it(no doubt in my mind we COULD do it), but want to have back up plans for finances. The loans would be fine- we could pay those back once we got out(or rather, defer them until we finish our fellowships & then pay them back when we finish those). Would be nice to have a scholarship, but if not, it wouldn't really be a huge issue. The everyday living expenses, however, is where I've been stuck.

We have both always worked. Before the baby, we both worked two jobs and went to school full time. So, I am not sure how to do it with NEITHER of us working....

Anyways, still open to more advice/experience.

I will check into the loans with the local med school & ask them about living expenses as well. I appreciate all of your responses thus far.

I took out $65,000 in federal loans this year for tuition+living expenses (the joy of being OOS). You will have plenty of money for school, but a masters program is going to add a ton of debt that isn't really necessary.
 
Harvard has this great physician-scientist program called HST. It's a joint program with MIT that grants the MD degree or the MD-PhD program. But the reason I'm telling you this is three fold.

Firstly, there are some research assistantships available for students in the program (this can significantly help defray costs). http://hst.mit.edu/servlet/ControllerServlet?handler=PublicHandler&action=browse&pageId=123

Secondly, you can get a good amount of research in during four years. While you won't get a PhD without a few years, you will still be thoroughly prepared for a career in research as well as clinical care.

Thirdly, even if the two of you don't get in, Boston has a number of phenomenal medical schools in its vicinity-BU, Tufts (slightly outside of Boston), and obviously Harvard.

Good luck!!!
 
Many people in my Med school have families (anywhere from 1-5 children) and they are able to raise them on student loans (which cover tuition and living expenses proportional to the cost of living in your area as decided by the school). If you need more money beyond that, you must take out private loans...but you should be more than covered with federal loans.

If I'm interpreting your intentions correctly, you and your husband are seeking to become researchers as opposed to clinicians...is that correct? If so, there are significantly more cost effective ways to reach this goal than to get 8 degrees jointly. For research experience you should become a full-time technician in a lab that will allow you to pursue your own projects. A masters will be a waste of money. Second, you can do research and run your own lab with just an MD. Just apply to a school that is a strong research institution.

Before you worry about all those degrees get some research experience first. While it may seem romantic to become an infectious disease researcher for the CDC working with dangerous viuses in a big yellow suit, real research is incredibly tedious, heart-breaking and mind-numbingly dull most of the time. Labs have significant turnover because not everyone can take it.
 
I don't see in your post that you want to do anything with research besides the MD/PhD. If this is the case, I would not pursue that route. Also, you don't need the master's in any regard, imo. Your end goals don't seem to mesh with your plan. If you want to do ID and him immuno, why the EM residency? Why not just IM which isn't incredibly competitive? I think you're stacking yourself up to be overqualified. Yes, you'll have XXX, MS, PhD, MD after your name, but its not going to be useful when you're practicing ID or your husband immuno unless you want to do reseach which I find no inclination in of your post. Instead of getting in 11-15 or so years deep, why not just get in 8 years deep?
 
I hope the OP replies again, I'm actually interested in if she has given any thought to changing her mind.
 
Good luck!

I can empathize with our situation, as my girlfriend and I are very close (considered marriage/kids), very young, and both are hoping to pursue medicine (myself possibly md/phd, emphasis on "possibly").

However, have you considered other options that lead to a similar end?

Consider one of you doing a PhD without the MD. If your goal is to do research (as it should be with MD/PhD), a PhD program will satisfy much of that goal (besides the ~20% clinical work) and make the stress of this whole process exponentially easier. You will still be able to work on medically applicable research and hold a professorship at a medical college, however, there are many benefits in your situation. PhD programs are much less competitive than MD/PhD, so if one of you is accepted into the MD/PhD programs, the other can most likely get into a doctorate program at the same institution or nearby. MSTP programs are super-competitive and it will be much more stressful if both of you have to be competitive enough to get into the same MSTPs. You can do a PhD in immunology and probably work on the same research as with an MD.

MD only. If one of you genuinely does not plan on entering academia and opening a research lab (be honest with yourselves!) then doing an MD will be much easier. Is it possible that you are both pursuing MSTP because of the other person (ie one of you genuinely wants MD and the other genuinely wants a PhD)?!

Also, consider your child (not that you already aren't). Even if you are both capable of having a great relationship throughout your MSTP educations, your child will be growing up in a household without any income! This is dramatic and he/she will also be growing up with tons of nannies/etc. because MSTP programs are incredibly time-consuming. Compromises need to be made and I think the MSTP program is a bit excessive. You can do similar research with a PhD and the same clinical work with an MD, you do not really need both.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the MSTP is the wrong choice here.

-You will be a student for an extra 4+ (depending on postdoc) years.
-Your child is going to grow up in a household with zero income and parents working/studying 60+ hours a week
-MSTP programs are extremely competitive and I honestly don't know how you'll be able to do enough research (during undergrad) to both be competitive and lucky enough to attend the same MSTP
-You should make compromises (for your child) and attend either an MD or PhD only program, depending on what your genuine future goals are. You can do a PhD in immunology or do a residency in EM/IM based on whether you would rather research or practice.
-Medical school relationships are probably challenging enough, but if you add a child, 4-6 more years, more competitive application process, and less overall income to the equation, it becomes too much.

Make compromises, be honest, don't get an MD/PhD just because you'll have more letters after your names.

EDIT:

After reading your second post, I noticed you want the MPH to buff your application (especially research aspect). The MPH will help because it'll give you more time to study for the MCAT and more research experience, but I don't believe a master's degree or graduate GPA helps your application substantially. On that note, I think there are better options for spending your 2 postbac years.

Why not try and get a fellowship at NIH or a paid position as lab tech, RA, etc. at a medical college or your undergrad? You will get paid, have potentially flexible hours, same amount of time to study for the MCAT, get more research experience than with just a masters, and have time to decide if your path is the correct one (especially because you'll be doing research the entire time). Maybe one of you can also start your education at this point and the other will work at a paid research position.
 
Last edited:
You are very driven and have showed you are willing to seek advice, but you have very bad misunderstandings of, at the minimum, MD/PhD programs. It is absolutely foolish to think you will both get into the same MD/PhD program (and slightly less foolish to the same medical school).

As stated before, an MPH would, if anything, hurt your chances to an MD/PhD program. Two questions on the AMCAS MD/PhD application: (1) Why MD/PhD? This would be very hard to effectively argue halfway through a public health program. (2) Describe your research experiences. MPH is not a research oriented degree.

If you are serious about research, consider applying to PhD programs at the similar locations to where you two are applying to medical school. If you are qualified (letters, research, GRE), you have a much better shot of staying in close proximity than applying to the same Med school together. If you are truly not interested in a career in research (if you are not doing heavy research in a "real" lab [grad students, maybe postdocs/ research tech's, PI who works his/her ass off] for at least a year, I do not think you can effectively answer this question), then do not pursue research.
 
I just want to know if the finances are possible and how. I believe where there is a will there is a way. Any advice/experience appreciated. Thanks!!!

Hi, I don't know a thing about MD/PhD programs, but I do know about having kids (I have 2, ages 9 and 12), and I also know a lot about money, because I worked on Wall St. for 20 years. So please let me give you a bit of a reality check about that subject.

The big problem here is that it's going to be practically impossible to raise a child decently and pay for everything she's going to need (including, BTW, HER future education) if you and your husband are both in school full-time for years on end. Even assuming you do get into a program with some sort of stipend, these are only a few thousand per year, which is not really enough for three people to live on. And as your daughter gets older, her financial needs will grow: you will have to buy clothes, books, toys, maybe pay for preschool, etc. What if she wants a bike, like all the other kids? Music lessons? As you can see, this adds up pretty quickly.

What will end up happening is that you'll borrow a lot of money. But don't forget that you'll be borrowing even more to finance med school (the average student borrows $150K). All those loans have to be repaid someday, and the monthly payments can really be staggering. If, for example, you ended up borrowing $300,000 total (could easily be more), even at 6% interest your payments would come to over $3000 per month. That's over $36,000 a year just in loan payments. Where are you going to come up with that kind of money and still afford food, clothing and shelter?

And don't forget, if you're in that kind of debt, it could be pretty hard to qualify for a mortgage some day--or even a car loan. You're going to be stuck in student-type poverty for most of your lives. And what if, God forbid, something goes wrong and one of you can't finish school? Even if you don't have the degree you were pursuing, you still have to pay back the loans.

I would suggest that you rethink your plans a bit. As others have already said, you should chart the most direct route to the degree you want so your years in school are minimized. But beyond that, I think you and your husband need to have a long talk about how you're going to work the economics. I don't want to tell you how to live your life, but I think it's going to be tough to hold everything together without at least one full-time income (or equivalent). Maybe that means you two alternate periods of work and school (one first, then the other), or some other arrangement, but I'm really concerned that the plans you have now would end up burying you in debt.

I really hope you are able to figure out a way to fulfill your dreams. Good luck.
 
You are very driven and have showed you are willing to seek advice, but you have very bad misunderstandings of, at the minimum, MD/PhD programs. It is absolutely foolish to think you will both get into the same MD/PhD program (and slightly less foolish to the same medical school).

As stated before, an MPH would, if anything, hurt your chances to an MD/PhD program. Two questions on the AMCAS MD/PhD application: (1) Why MD/PhD? This would be very hard to effectively argue halfway through a public health program. (2) Describe your research experiences. MPH is not a research oriented degree.

If you are serious about research, consider applying to PhD programs at the similar locations to where you two are applying to medical school. If you are qualified (letters, research, GRE), you have a much better shot of staying in close proximity than applying to the same Med school together. If you are truly not interested in a career in research (if you are not doing heavy research in a "real" lab [grad students, maybe postdocs/ research tech's, PI who works his/her ass off] for at least a year, I do not think you can effectively answer this question), then do not pursue research.
This post brings up a great point. The chance for you and your husband to get into the same MSTP is nearly impossible. Getting into medical school together will be a challenge as well, but not as hard.
 
at this rate maybe you can attend medical school together with your child.
 
Those are ambitious plans...

You are pretty young. Get back in school, work on your bachelors, and then decide if this is really what you want to do.
 
my 2cents

-MSTP programs are NIH funded and pay for everything + stipend, MD/PhD programs that are not MSTP fund at the school's discretion some fund like a MSTP some almost nothing at all.

-MPH is not usually basic science research as stated above and won't help you get into an MSTP, an MD/PhD perhaps depending on the science you intend to do. For MSTPs they are really looking hard for that dedication to the science and trying to weed out the people doing it for the tuition/stipend/resume boost for residency.

-the time consideration of doing the degrees at the exact same time with your spouse will have to consider 3rd and 4th year rotation where you may (and often will be) on call every fourth night. That is working daily 12+ hours for 6 days a week with one day being overnight. This will be the case for first few years of most residency programs as well.

-In my program there is one person doing MSTP and the spouse doing MD/PhD at another Med school in town. It's not impossible for the same program, I know of two exceptionally smart people who did their MSTP at the same program same entering year. They did a one year research fellowship (basic science) on top of some substantial undergrad basic science research.

-Perhaps consider one person starting MD/PhD/MSTP and other person doing PhD. Then as the PhD draws to an end they apply and enter MD. That schedule would allow much more time for one person to help with child care, and PhD programs draw a stipend and some health insurance.

-There is loan repayment for MDs who do decide to go and do research. It amounts to about 90K total as it stands now but perhaps a little more.

-as mentioned above find and talk to people that understand where you want to go (lab PI's that you would do research with, MSTP program directors who would be evaluating your apps, current MD and MD/PhD students who can give you a realistic idea about things like the time requirements of their programs, their lives, and their finances).


good luck.
 
my 2cents


-Perhaps consider one person starting MD/PhD/MSTP and other person doing PhD. Then as the PhD draws to an end they apply and enter MD. That schedule would allow much more time for one person to help with child care, and PhD programs draw a stipend and some health insurance.

-There is loan repayment for MDs who do decide to go and do research. It amounts to about 90K total as it stands now but perhaps a little more.



That sounds like a great suggestion to me.

Also, could you give some more info about that program for researching MD's.

To the OP: I also was considering the MD/PhD route until I realized how much research you can do with an MD degree. Speaking from experience, don't be too hard on yourself if you change plans in the next few years. You seem like you'll figure it out and will do whatever's best for you and your family. It's ok to cut yourself some slack.
 
-Perhaps consider one person starting MD/PhD/MSTP and other person doing PhD. Then as the PhD draws to an end they apply and enter MD. That schedule would allow much more time for one person to help with child care, and PhD programs draw a stipend and some health insurance.

If you want to be an MD, I really wouldn't encourage you to do the PhD separate first. Mainly because if the MD/PhD is what you really want, you're better off doing one of those programs where they at least combine them somewhat. PhD only programs tend to be a bit longer than the combined ones, and then you end up having to pay for the MD portion. If you really want to do both, you're better off doing them together. There is a possibility of asking the school if you could do the PhD portion of the program first, depending on the school...it's entirely possibly that they'll let you. Additionally, if you don't have any research, you'll probably find it hard to get into a PhD program because the prereqs for the PhD programs are a bit higher than MD or MSTP. If you're not sure about the level of research you want to do and you've never done any research, you're going to have a hard time convincing scientists that you want to go to grad school over more qualified candidates...and most PhD programs are far less forgiving than med schools in terms of trading grades and ability for diversity or uniqueness.
 
Seems like a heat of the moment plan that has evolved into one big, elaborate, and risky idea. I would honestly decide on who is going to be a doctor and who is going to take care of the child. Maybe paper scissors rock to decide? I dont see how both of you will be able to go to school and properly take care of your baby--->toddler--->adolescent--->teenager. If you don't have a problem with hiring a nanny then it might work.
 
Seems like a heat of the moment plan that has evolved into one big, elaborate, and risky idea. I would honestly decide on who is going to be a doctor and who is going to take care of the child. Maybe paper scissors rock to decide? I dont see how both of you will be able to go to school and properly take care of your baby--->toddler--->adolescent--->teenager. If you don't have a problem with hiring a nanny then it might work.

There are plenty of people in medical school with kids who have a spouse who is also in medical school or other professional program or PhD. You can do it, its easier if you have family support, but you should not let posters like this deter you because there already ARE people who are doing it.
 
There are plenty of people in medical school with kids who have a spouse who is also in medical school or other professional program or PhD. You can do it, its easier if you have family support, but you should not let posters like this deter you because there already ARE people who are doing it.

I would like to see how it is possible to properly raise a child without some sort of nanny or daycare/nightsitter if both parents are full-time medical students.
 
There are plenty of people in medical school with kids who have a spouse who is also in medical school or other professional program or PhD. You can do it, its easier if you have family support, but you should not let posters like this deter you because there already ARE people who are doing it.

However, the effort required to care for a 0-6 month old is different from the effort of caring for a 2-3 year old. First, they sleep a lot less. They can get into a lot of trouble if not supervised closely. As the child goes onto school, you need to think about care before and after classes, the cost of that care, transportation to & from school & after school activities, the quality of the school and the costs (tuition in a private school or relatviely higher taxes and housing costs in good school districts) and the choices you'll have for your child's schools depending on where you get in for med school and residency.

Having a baby in med school is a lot different than having a 4-8 year old while in med school.

I would suggest that the OP make a chart like this:
Acad. yr Mom's ed Dad's ed Kid's age/ed
2008/09 college jr
2009/10 college sr
2010/11 M1
.
.
.
2025/26
This will give a better picture of where the child is going to be as the parentsw move through the system with its 80 hour weeks, overnight call, etc.
 
I would like to see how it is possible to properly raise a child without some sort of nanny or daycare/nightsitter if both parents are full-time medical students.

I wasn't suggesting that they didn't have help, family or paid or both. I was commenting on the idea that the OP and her spouse had to choose which one of them was going to medical school because it was impossible to do with a child.
 
And about children- you are right, it is hard on them to pursue something that puts such constraints on your time. But please consider this. It will teach our daughter to value education and to work hard.

I want to start out by saying that I admire your desire to have a family and pursue a career in medicine. Me and my fiance are both in medical school and we hope to start a family in our residency. However, please consider the mentality of a child. I have a 12 year old brother, and the value of things like education and hard work do not replace a day at the beach or the presence of a mother at a soccer game. My friends who all had hard working parents feel some sort of emptiness due to their absence from major social events as a result of a demanding career. Obviously this worries me as a woman in medicine who hopes to have children, but I think you need to realize just how big of a sacrifice this lifestyle will be for your daughter. I truly do hope the situation works out for you.
 
I wasn't suggesting that they didn't have help, family or paid or both. I was commenting on the idea that the OP and her spouse had to choose which one of them was going to medical school because it was impossible to do with a child.

I never said that they had to choose anything. I said that is what I would do. If I had a child, It would be my duty to do at least that much for them. It is incredibly hard to take care of a young child if both parents are in medical school. You can loan your son or daughter off to family members and friends, but to me this is irresponsible and a disservice to someone that you are suppose to be willing to give everything for (your child.) The OP seems like a calculating individual, and so it only seems natural that she would recognize the unforseen consequences that may come with not personally raising a child. Again, this is just my opinion and would without a doubt me my approach were I in that situation.
 
Wow, there are just too many variables in this plan. I think you need to work on your short-term goals. Get some research experience to see if you even LIKE research. Take the MCAT to see if you are even competitive and if so, does your competitiveness match with that of your husband? (That will affect the likelihood of both of you getting accepted into the same school if one is 3.0/25 and the other is 4.0/35.)

How are your extracurriculars and shadowing experience? You work full-time, go to school full-time, and have a 6 month old. Your time to do EC's is very limited, and even with good stats, bad EC's can get a person rejected from medical school.

I second the person that says in the interest of the child, one of you needs to choose to go to medical school first. IA with LizzyM, an infant is VERY easy to care of (no punishment, no destroying things, just poop/eat/sleep/giggle)...it's the 2-10 range that is HORRIFIC.''

Edited to add: It would be smart to focus on getting into your state school. That's the most reasonable shot you have of both you and your husband getting accepted into the same school.

at this rate maybe you can attend medical school together with your child.

:laugh:
 
Part of the original post strikes me a bit as trying to achieve more degrees and letters after one's name, without much thought as to why that is. More degrees doesn't mean you are smarter and doesn't guarantee you any better chance at success. It's kind of like people in college who do double majors or triple majors without even having a good reason to do that, other than, "I think it might be more impressive." Or the frequent threads that pop up where people want to do multiple residencies because they think it will make them some sort of "super doctor" who can do both.

MD/PhDs are not always smarter. They are certainly not always better doctors. They are also not always better researchers. All of the things which one hopes to achieve in a career in medicine depend to a great extent on your own characteristics and how you develop your own career. The letters after your name are relatively trivial components. Ask yourself what you want out of medicine. Maybe you don't know. As a premed you probably shouldn't know exactly what you want. I certainly didn't. But not being sure is not a bad thing. It doesn't mean you have to rush to inflate your credentials before you even know why you're doing it.

Credential inflation for the sake of credential inflation is almost never an advisable tactic. This is not the way life works. Achieving goals means very little if your rationale for doing it and if your plans after these goals are met are not realistic. What do you want to do? Do you want to be a doctor? Do you want to be a researcher? Or do you want to be a perpetual grad student? Some people want to be perpetual grad students.
 
I didn't read through all the replies in this thread, sorry if this has been mentioned before.

OP, small bit of advice, if you're committed to this path I'd recommend you and your spouse stagger your medical school admissions so that one of you is a year behind the other. Your two major time sinks as a future doctor are going to be 3rd year of medical school and your Intern year. Those years you will do nothing but medicine, and someone else will need to take care of your child. Is seems logical that this would be your spouse.


Residency in general won't be great, but if you can manage not to be in 3rd year or Internship at the same time you should be able to make it work in terms of time commitment

Also, yeah, you don't need a PhD for infectious disseases work, just an MPH. Also you don't apply to combined EM/IM unless you're primarily interested in EM. For the fellowships you're looking at you'd want IM only

Also, as I'm sure was stated before, 100 to 1 your interests will change before you're done with 1st year.
 
Top